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Should supports end in marriage?


Should supports end in marriage?  

112 members have voted

  1. 1. Should supports end in marriage?

    • Yes, they should
      7
    • Only some should
      93
    • None should
      13


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14 minutes ago, SpearOfLies said:

You cannot marry Soleil with Corrin female.

I know.  I said you couldn't marry her, even if you wanted to.  But she is obviously a lesbian.

6 hours ago, Rezzy said:

Yeah, the Lesbian options in Fates are pretty bad.  You get creepy-stalker Rhajat or overly aggressive Soleil, who you can't even marry if you wanted to.

 

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There are canon pairings, so I would like to see the buildup that lead to their endings.

It also makes me wonder if there's going to be 3 way supports or a sequence of events regarding 3 characters, kind of like the base conversations.

Spoiler

Tobin and Gray fought for Clair's hand in the epilogue, despite not actually talking to each other at all during the game. It will probably be comedic relief, as these two fight for her love, and she's just oblivious to them the whole time.

Saber and Jesse have a shared ending, where they start a town together. It also implied that he and Jenny were together, so a support conversation between them would be interesting. I'd imagine their dynamic could work like Hector/Florina.

 

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Since some characters already get paired endings anyway, the supports would help develop their relationships. It would also give some control tho the player who ends up with who: do you want Claire to end with Gray, Tobin, or remain single? But there should only be a limited number of potential S ranks per character, and they would actually get married until the epilogue

Also Soleil is bi

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6 hours ago, SpearOfLies said:

I missread. Ops. And I never see her as lesbian.

Soliel is a messy character as she seems completely coded as a lesbian for her obsessive love of feminine things and to the point she's entranced by fellow female fighters. Her copying her father's flirty habits can be part of it, but she has a hard time turning it down. My gaydar may be going off, but she reads like a hormonal, awkward teen that trying to figure her preferences out.

But she only marries guys, despite her open and gushing admiration of any and every girl she meets, and she, as far as I know, never makes it out like she's unhappy to be with a male. 

It's far more believable that she's as bisexual as Rhajat and Niles are, so she feels like a bait and switch, and maybe she was, but was dropped to give the second bi character to Birthright.

 

ANYWAY, on topic!

...y-yes. I would actually like to change the pair/s canon to Gaiden if only to access alternate endings. How would it work out differently if Celica swore her heart to Boey before the final act? If Alm is charmed by the new villiage girl, Effie? 

 

But, if no marriage, I do want supports everywhere, between as many people as possible.

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On 25/2/2017 at 8:55 AM, Rezzy said:

Yeah, the Lesbian options in Fates are pretty bad.  You get creepy-stalker Rhajat or overly aggressive Soleil, who you can't even marry if you wanted to.

Soleil is not lesbian. She is like those highschool anime girls that grope their classmates. SOV is better of without marriage mechanics.

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13 hours ago, Mysterique Sign said:

Since some characters already get paired endings anyway, the supports would help develop their relationships. It would also give some control tho the player who ends up with who: do you want Claire to end with Gray, Tobin, or remain single? But there should only be a limited number of potential S ranks per character, and they would actually get married until the epilogue

Also Soleil is bi

 

11 hours ago, Altrosa said:

Soliel is a messy character as she seems completely coded as a lesbian for her obsessive love of feminine things and to the point she's entranced by fellow female fighters. Her copying her father's flirty habits can be part of it, but she has a hard time turning it down. My gaydar may be going off, but she reads like a hormonal, awkward teen that trying to figure her preferences out.

But she only marries guys, despite her open and gushing admiration of any and every girl she meets, and she, as far as I know, never makes it out like she's unhappy to be with a male. 

It's far more believable that she's as bisexual as Rhajat and Niles are, so she feels like a bait and switch, and maybe she was, but was dropped to give the second bi character to Birthright.

 

ANYWAY, on topic!

...y-yes. I would actually like to change the pair/s canon to Gaiden if only to access alternate endings. How would it work out differently if Celica swore her heart to Boey before the final act? If Alm is charmed by the new villiage girl, Effie? 

 

But, if no marriage, I do want supports everywhere, between as many people as possible.

 

11 minutes ago, L9999 said:

Soleil is not lesbian. She is like those highschool anime girls that grope their classmates. SOV is better of without marriage mechanics.

Yeah, it may have been more accurate to say Soleil is a lesbian leaning bisexual.  In most of her S Supports, she's basically saying, "I like pretty girls, but I'll settle for you."  As a bisexual myself who only dated girls in my teens and early twenties, I might be more sensitive to this sort of thing than most, but her portrayal just bugged me.

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12 hours ago, Altrosa said:

But, if no marriage, I do want supports everywhere, between as many people as possible.

 

Ehh... I feel like FE does quality over quantity much better. See: RD's terrible, stripped-down and generic supports, where literally everyone can support with everyone. Fates and Awakening aren't as bad and by all means did it better than RD, but a lot of those conversations are generic, boring and forgettable because they're forced to include a conversation there, even if there's nothing to talk about. Chrom and Sumia's supports? About Sumia baking a pie. Ooookay....why the hell do we care?

POR supports, you learned something new and interesting about every single character, barring Ilyana, who for her entire existence has been a one-note gimmick character in the first place. That's why I consider POR supports to be the best in the games.

But as for my opinion on the topic at hand. Sure, we can have the classic marriage S-supports...as long as we have a whole slew of platonic S-supports as well. The over-reliance on "these units have the deepest bond possible, so OF COURSE they're going to get married!" is tiresome at best.

You can still be best friends forever while staying platonic, IS. ...Which is the route I wished they took with Alm and Cellica, because they were freaking childhood friends and all, but I digress.

Edited by Extrasolar
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1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

 

 

Yeah, it may have been more accurate to say Soleil is a lesbian leaning bisexual.  In most of her S Supports, she's basically saying, "I like pretty girls, but I'll settle for you."  As a bisexual myself who only dated girls in my teens and early twenties, I might be more sensitive to this sort of thing than most, but her portrayal just bugged me.

That's just english. All her s supports in japanese ended in her marrying the guy, although a lot of people seem to think the english is an improvement. 

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8 minutes ago, AsherCrane said:

That's just english. All her s supports in japanese ended in her marrying the guy, although a lot of people seem to think the english is an improvement. 

Yeah, Soleil is Schrodinger's lesbian, and had a lot of her supports re-translated.  The Japanese Forrest is especially cringeworthy.  I think we've gotten a bit off-topic though.

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Yes, they should, in all honesty. While some people do get canonical pairings, it'd be interesting to see those get backstory in terms of supports. While for those that don't, perhaps they could find their happy ending. You know, something that Fire Emblem 7 did long ago.

Edited by SSJ4 Xelon
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4 hours ago, AsherCrane said:

That's just english. All her s supports in japanese ended in her marrying the guy, although a lot of people seem to think the english is an improvement. 

Well, her supports with Corrin in the JP version were slightly terrifying. People were losing it at the fact the whole potion thing had parallels to conversion therapy and drugging, which may have innocently flown right over the heads of the writers and JP audience.

It's that whole neccesary evil of localization thing. Just changing it from a potion her superior officer makes her drink to a blindfold she can take off if need be gives Soleil the power, removing 90% of the fridge horror, and the entire event takes the humorous tone it was likely intended to have from the start.

 

Anyway, my problem with the support events in Fates stemmed more from that fact certain characters were forced to go wildly OOC to justify the one they are interacting with. Awakening dodged this by not letting everyone support everyone.

As example, most of Peri's supports have this issue as she simply can't grow and develop as a character. She's easily the worst offender of is, but I'll use her to et e point across.

Most supports she has deal with her broken sense of morality, and her complete inability to see what's she doing wrong. So you have noble characters like Corrin or Xander, struggle, give up, and accept that she's just going to kill people since that's just Peri, she's so funny~

It's so egregiously OOC for Corrin, especially, who spends the whole game doing his damndest to prevent needless death, only to marry a women who kills for fun, even promising to hire "strong servents" that won't die in one hit. Meanwhile, Xander just thinks she's hot, so w/e, which has some really messed up implications for him in that he would jail her in a heartbeat for her frequent murders if she weren't? It's incredible.

Basically, she never shows any signs of healing, or even many signs she can.

I don't want that. That's boring at worst, frustrating at best.

Edited by Altrosa
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On 2/25/2017 at 4:47 PM, Rezzy said:

Her "getting tea" with cute girls is a euphemism.

I'm all for equality thing here and Soleil being interpreted as a lesbian with certain contexts in English.

But do we forget that Soleil was one of the most changed person in the localization?

It might be a euphemism in English (which I was not aware of, btw). But "getting tea" was a *LITERAL* thing in the JP supports.

That particular instance(s) are a direct translation of words being exactly what they mean.

Which means, there was no euphemism intended there.

 

As for the topic:

My view is the GBA interpretation.

A supports in which some were canonically ending in marriage. And some friendships. And some ambiguious.

The S support being motivated by waifu culture dividing the FE14 team is pretty much a mirror of what happens in the community. And is something I do not like.

I'd rather they remove that option because there (seems) to be no My Unit involved in this iteration (thank goodness) and removes all motivation for the S support.

Edited by shadowofchaos
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21 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

As for the topic:

My view is the GBA interpretation.

A supports in which some were canonically ending in marriage. And some friendships. And some ambiguious.

The S support being motivated by waifu culture dividing the FE14 team is pretty much a mirror of what happens in the community. And is something I do not like.

I'd rather they remove that option because there (seems) to be no My Unit involved in this iteration (thank goodness) and removes all motivation for the S support.

Personally, I don't think there was a problem with S rank supports in concept. If anything, it gives another conversation to flesh out the characters. I would think the problem is that Awakening removed the limit of supports a character could have, and that with the "Anybody could marry anybody in-game instead of after the end of the game" meant the conversation up to A rank had to be written without disrupting the one S support chosen. Characters only having one S rank is no different from the GBA games's 5 support limit ensuring characters could only have one A, and the C and B conversation written to avoid disrupting whatever A is chosen. Although, I might not remember exactly if GBA's C's and B's were all written to not disrupt the A's.

Anyway, now that it got brought up, I think that if they don't change the pairings like in the Archanea remakes, they can now write supports and even keep the limit removal since now conversation don't have to be written in a Schroddinger's situation.

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I am torn. I would like to pair whoever I want with whoever I want. Like, if I want Celica to marry Saber, I should be able to do that.(Even though I would only pair Alm and Celica.) I think I should have the freedom that Awakening and Fates have. But, I would also like some characters relationships to end platonically. Like how I wanted Azura and Kaden's support to end platonically.

42 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

 

My view is the GBA interpretation.

A supports in which some were canonically ending in marriage. And some friendships. And some ambiguious.

 

This is another way I wouldn't entirely be opposed too, but I think I would prefer the Awakening way.

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6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Personally, I don't think there was a problem with S rank supports in concept. If anything, it gives another conversation to flesh out the characters. I would think the problem is that Awakening removed the limit of supports a character could have, and that with the "Anybody could marry anybody in-game instead of after the end of the game" meant the conversation up to A rank had to be written without disrupting the one S support chosen. Characters only having one S rank is no different from the GBA games's 5 support limit ensuring characters could only have one A, and the C and B conversation written to avoid disrupting whatever A is chosen. Although, I might not remember exactly if GBA's C's and B's were all written to not disrupt the A's.

Anyway, now that it got brought up, I think that if they don't change the pairings like in the Archanea remakes, they can now write supports and even keep the limit removal since now conversation don't have to be written in a Schroddinger's situation.

I don't see problem with unlimited supports. I see more problem about too many support for a many single character which cause make many support similar or useless. Gaiden have less amount of character so will not see many problem about this side but Fates you have too many possible marriage that will be pain of ass for every writer to make a at least decent romantic support for every possible pair. Limit the amount of people one can support which they actually have a connection or for comedian sake will be far better than fanservice for everyone.

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I voted no. I think GBA hard 5 limit is best for game play wise, but not necessarily the way they were grinded out.

If people want to ship whoever, they should actually root for no supports at all (which I am a fan of) because then you can make your own characterization for every character and have them collect squirrels if you want.

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Like many here, I also think only some supports should end in marriage and only during the epilogue of the game, forcing romance to an otherwise good platonic relationship can only end awful (see ElinciaxGeoffrey, HaarxJill, MicaiahxSothe and 90% of awakening and fates).

However they decide to handle supports please don't go back to the 5 support conversations per character rule, I am a completionist and I want my support log filled completely but if to do that I have to start the game over and over again it would just be a nightmare, I mean if they are going to let us grind for exp why not support grinding as well?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/26/2017 at 5:53 PM, shadowofchaos said:

I'd rather they remove that option because there (seems) to be no My Unit involved in this iteration (thank goodness) and removes all motivation for the S support.

I feel the S-support was just needed for the child aspect, which is (hopefully) not coming back.

Regardless, I think S-supports can stay in even without the children. In the GBA games, it was difficult to build support (at least for me), and you could only have a limited amount of them. But in modern FE games, support is easy and unlimited. As such, it will be more fun to be able to reach an A support with many characters, and an S for additional dialogue and characterization between the two, without them necessarily getting married.

Though, for that matter, to get a paired ending I'd be perfectly fine if S-supports functioned like the A+ supports in Fates- just click it and get an ending.

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I would love for there to be supports period. Although I would like to not go back to the "five support conversations only" rule of the old days or the generic two sentence exchanges of Radiant Dawn. I think S or A+ ranks can be added in perfectly fine without needing to add children into the game.

Edited by nhaer042
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Why all the hate for Geoffrey/Elincia? Am I the only one that was happy they got a paired ending in RD?

As for Echoes, I think there should be some romance/marriage supports. There are already paired endings so I don't see why the supports couldn't reflect that? Maybe do something where you can get C-A supports with all options (though do it like with older games where everyone has between 3~9 characters they can support with), but you have to choose a single character to get an S support with and this will decide their ending. Said ending can be platonic or romantic depending on the pair. Heck it could be like Fates A+ support where you don't get a scene for it even, just have it affect the ending.

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Haha, I wouldn't mind. I think it's nice to see characters end up with other ones, and it's nice to see the process that leads up to that. However, I don't think anyone should be able to marry anyone, as I feel like some supports could either suffer from it or it would just be weird and not make sense. Luckily I don't see this being a problem since there aren't child units, meaning there's no need for what would be "parent" characters being able to marry *almost* everybody and there's no My Unit either.

Edited by SuperIb
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I have not played Gaiden before but am looking forward to giving it a shot before Echoes comes out.  However, I feel like it would be appropriate if some significant supports ended in immediate marriage.  The others I would like to think would end in a relationship of perhaps engagement that would result in marriage in the credit/"where are they now" sequence.  Of course, I hope that the marriages do not end with child units with a cheap cop-out gimmick so that they can turn up. 

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I just want paired endings. I don't see a need to shoehorn immediate marriages in, because it makes the relationship move way too fast. Keeping marriages to character endings allows for more natural support chains.

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