How would you react if the art for a new fire emblem game was in the style used in the jugdral series?

[KliffIsTheOG]

You read the question, whaddya expect, me ta spoon feed it to you again? I'm only one man!

[OakTree]

Which artist would they choose for that though? The only character designer i can think of who does stuff old-school style is Haruhiko Mikimoto, and im pretty sure he is kind of a big name, not only that, but the character designs would have to fit the aesthetic of the setting, so the entire game would have to go with an art direction that suits the almost 80s anime aesthetic the SNES games had.

Edited February 27, 2017 by OakTree

[Slumber]

I'd be down, but I have a soft spot for the very soft, but grainy/dark aesthetic of 90s anime that was all over the Jugdral games. I mean, Thracia was more Sailor Moon than Genealogy was, but I could still get down.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Slumber

[maybe]

those designs are silly as fuck

i love them but i don't even know if it'd be possible to get an artist who can do that style in this day and age

[Slumber]

4 minutes ago, unique said:

those designs are silly as fuck

i love them but i don't even know if it'd be possible to get an artist who can do that style in this day and age

The designs of the Jugdral games are pretty mild, really. The only games that are silly as fuck when it comes to design are FE13 and FE14, where cavaliers wear toilets, Berserkers wear bone bikinis, and dark mages just wear regular bikinis with mesh over it.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Slumber

[OakTree]

5 minutes ago, Slumber said:

The designs of the Jugdral games are pretty mild, really. The only games that are silly as fuck when it comes to design are FE13 and FE14, where cavaliers wear toilets, Berserkers wear bone bikinis, and dark mages just wear regular bikinis with mesh over it.

You're forgetting the biggest offender of the entire series.

NOTHING, and by that i mean, NOTHING in Awakening or Fates is as bad as the Black Knight's design, that is what people should be mentioning in every "Worst Fire Emblem Designs" discussion.

[Slumber]

Just now, OakTree said:

You're forgetting the biggest offender of the entire series.

NOTHING, and by that i mean, NOTHING in Awakening or Fates is as bad as the Black Knight's design, that is what people should be mentioning in every "Worst Fire Emblem Designs" discussion.

I mean. The Black Knight is over-designed and has a big dumb Sauron helmet with pauldrons that basically limit his field of vision to about 20 degrees directly in front of him, but I don't think it's as stupid as the toilet armor that Sully wore, or like, anything that anyone of specific classes wore.

[OakTree]

Just now, Slumber said:

I mean. The Black Knight is over-designed and has a big dumb Sauron helmet with pauldrons that basically limit his field of vision to about 20 degrees directly in front of him, but I don't think it's as stupid as the toilet armor that Sully wore, or like, anything that anyone of specific classes wore.

I can at least picture the characters in FE13 and FE14 being capable of basic movement, which is a luxury i can't give to BK.

[Slumber]

5 minutes ago, OakTree said:

I can at least picture the characters in FE13 and FE14 being capable of basic movement, which is a luxury i can't give to BK.

Really? Even this fuckin' guy?

From his junk to his neck is just one solid piece of metal. Let's not even go over the jet engine he has around his neck.

Actually, the body piece goes past his junk, meaning it's basically impossible for him to even lift his legs up to walk without taking baby steps.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Slumber

[OakTree]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

Really? Even this fuckin' guy?

From his junk to his neck is just one solid piece of metal. Let's not even go over the jet engine he has around his neck.

Outside of the shoulder pads and the fact that his legs could use a few more open spots to facilitate movement, Kellam's design is actually pretty solid, heck, the fact his breastplate is actually covering his entire torso is actually something he has over armored units from previous games.

[Slumber]

7 minutes ago, OakTree said:

Outside of the shoulder pads and the fact that his legs could use a few more open spots to facilitate movement, Kellam's design is actually pretty solid, heck, the fact his breastplate is actually covering his entire torso is actually something he has over armored units from previous games.

Breastplates aren't supposed to cover your entire torso down to your upper thigh. They're supposed to cover your breast area, going down about as far as the belly button at the most, and any that go past are typically layered sheets of metal linked with mesh so you can actually move your upper body. That's why they're called breastplates. What Kellam is wearing can't even be called a breastplate. He cannot move his legs and he can't bend over. He can barely move his head.

If anything happens below his chest, he's basically completely incapable of defending himself, which completely defeats the purpose of wearing 800lbs of armor and carrying a 600 lb shield.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Slumber

[OakTree]

9 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Breastplates aren't supposed to cover your entire torso down to your upper thigh. They're supposed to cover your breast area, going down about as far as the belly button at the most, and any that go past are typically layered sheets of metal linked with mesh so you can actually move your upper body. That's why they're called breastplates. What Kellam is wearing can't even be called a breastplate. He cannot move his legs and he can't bend over. He can barely move his head.

If anything happens below his chest, he's basically completely incapable of defending himself.

Full torso breastplates are more practical than ones that just cover the chest area, the ones that just cover said area add unbalanced weight to your upper body and it also leaves the parts below the chest area exposed (Just one stab to poor Sain's stomach and he's dead, also, what the hell is up with that small square shaped part of it?).

Edited February 28, 2017 by OakTree

[InterracialPandaSon]

can't wait to get my sick 90's anime hair

[Slumber]

23 minutes ago, OakTree said:

One piece breastplates are more practical than ones that just cover the chest area, the ones that just cover said area add unbalanced weight to your upper body and it also leaves the parts below the chest area exposed (Just one stab to poor Sain's stomach and he's dead).

No they aren't.

They're far heavier and they limit your freedom of movement entirely at the waist. If you had to sit there, and do nothing but take damage, sure, sit there and wear all the armor you want. But if you have to make any sort of movement at all, a one-piece breastplate is the absolute worst thing you could wear. Here's a challenge: Lie down on the floor, put something heavy on yourself, and try to get up without using your hips. I can guarantee it will be nearly impossible, if not flat out impossible. Your only options are lift yourself up with your arms from behind(Which will only be possible in armor if you're the hulk). You can't roll over, because without the ability to bend your legs or roll your hips, you won't be able to get your legs under you, and you'll basically be stuck doing heavily weighted pushups until somebody with a forklift comes and helps you. If you do this, you'll realize why nobody ever wore armor that even slightly resembled Kellam's.

When it comes to trade-offs in armor, a breastplate that covers your most important bits(Your heart, lungs, liver, and stomach, which are all roughly in your ribcage), but having relatively little protection in your mid-section(You can live for a while with intestinal damage, depending on severity) and having freedom of movement at the hips, legs and pelvis is MUCH more preferable than having NO freedom of movement, but having protection to your intestines.

For all sorts of reasons, Kellam's armor might be the dumbest design choice in a game of questionable designs. There's a reason that there are very few(If any) pieces of actual armor in human history that go past the belly that are just a single piece of metal.

Also, Sain also rides a horse. If he wore a one-piece, he'd castrate himself any time his horse moved faster than a light trot. He'd also probably kill his horse or sever its spine.

Also, I just realized, WHY DOES KELLAM'S ARMOR HAVE NIPPLES?

Edited February 28, 2017 by Slumber

[OakTree]

13 minutes ago, Slumber said:

No they aren't.

They're far heavier and they limit your freedom of movement entirely at the waist. If you had to sit there, and do nothing but take damage, sure, sit there and wear all the armor you want. But if you have to make any sort of movement at all, a one-piece breastplate is the absolute worst thing you could wear. Here's a challenge: Lie down on the floor, put something heavy on yourself, and try to get up without using your hips. I can guarantee it will be nearly impossible, if not flat out impossible. Your only options are lift yourself up with your arms from behind(Which will only be possible in armor if you're the hulk). You can't roll over, because without the ability to bend your legs or roll your hips, you won't be able to get your legs under you, and you'll basically be stuck doing heavily weighted pushups until somebody with a forklift comes and helps you.

When if comes to trade-offs in armor, a breastplate that covers your most important bits(Your heart, lungs, liver, and stomach, which are all roughly in your ribcage), but having relatively little protection in your mid-section(You can live for a while with intestinal damage, depending on severity) and having freedom of movement at the hips, legs and pelvis is MUCH more preferable than having NO freedom of movement, but having protection to your intestines.

For all sorts of reasons, Kellam's armor might be the dumbest design choice in a game of questionable designs. There's a reason that there are very few(If any) pieces of actual armor in human history that go past the belly that are just a single piece of metal.

Also, Sain also rides a horse. If he wore a one-piece, he'd castrate himself any time his horse moved faster than a light trot. He'd also probably kill his horse.

So you're trying to argue that this breastplate is more practical than this one, okaaaayyyy, seriously, the only actual problem with Kellam's breastplate are the aforementioned shoulder pads and the pointy end (A problem also shared with other units suchs as Gilliam), soften that part up and he becomes capable of leaning forward and sitting without cutting off hisown crotch. And one piece breastplates actually feel less weighty, since the weight is distributed through your entire body rather than just the top, they're also far easier to manufacture than one that is sculpted to only be worn at the top, i could go on about this, but remember, if you google "Breastplate" on google, the first thing that comes up is lo and behold, a one piece body armor.

Edited February 28, 2017 by OakTree

[Slumber]

10 minutes ago, OakTree said:

So you're trying to argue that this is more practical than this, okaaaayyyy, seriously, the only actual problem with Kellam's breastplate are the aforementioned shoulder pads and the pointy end (A problem aslo shared with other units suchs as Gilliam), soften that part up and he becomes capable of leaning forward and sitting without cutting off hisown crotch. And one piece breastplates actually feel less weighty, since the weight is distributed through your entire body rather than just the top, i could go on about this, but remember, if you google "Breastplate" on google, the first thing that comes up is lo and behold, a full torso body armor.

That piece of armor that the generic soldier has is not one piece. It's clearly at least two segments, with the top segment ending about where Sain's ends. Yeah, Sain could wear something more akin to this to get some protection for his stomach, but you're ignoring the part where he rides a horse. The most vulnerable areas for a horseman are the chest area, since that's where other horseman and archers will be able to most easily hit you for the most damage. Infantry won't be able to hit your gut due to the half ton animal in the way, and they'll aim for the horse before even trying to hit you in your stomach.

And that full torso piece of armor you linked ends above the pelvis. Fine for somebody on the ground, but a horse rider would still probably castrate themselves wearing it.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Slumber

[Extrasolar]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

The designs of the Jugdral games are pretty mild, really. The only games that are silly as fuck when it comes to design are FE13 and FE14, where cavaliers wear toilets, Berserkers wear bone bikinis, and dark mages just wear regular bikinis with mesh over it.

Pretty much this... Besides, Lewyn's hat is the best nonsensical thing to come out of the Jugdral series. Seriously, what even is that cloth monstrosity?

[Slumber]

4 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Pretty much this... Besides, Lewyn's hat is the best nonsensical thing to come out of the Jugdral series. Seriously, what even is that cloth monstrosity?

I think it's like... a scarf that he wears as a head wrap... with like, a fox tail sticking out.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Slumber

[Extrasolar]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

I think it's like... a scarf that he wears as a head wrap... with like, a fox tail sticking out(Might be a pegasus feather now that I think about it).

Here's the best look at it we get (granted, it's the Cipher version, so it's slightly redesigned compared to the original).



It's got...a couple random chains hanging down, what looks like a tassel, a bunch of feathers sticking out, and a fluffy furry tail-like thing... I don't understand how this exists and stays on his head, let alone functions as a hat. I mean, that can't be comfortable. Not to mention, if it's a scarf, it's got a scarf-like attachment of its own to hang around his neck and torso. o.o

I mean, if "spoony bard" was what he was going for with that thing, I guess he succeeds.

[OakTree]

6 minutes ago, Slumber said:

That piece of armor that the generic soldier has is not one piece. It's clearly at least two segments, with the top segment ending about where Sain's ends. Yeah, Sain could wear something more akin to this to get some protection for his stomach, but you're ignoring the part where he rides a horse. The most vulnerable areas for a horseman are the chest area, since that's where other horseman and archers will be able to most easily hit you for the most damage. Infantry won't be able to hit your gut due to the half ton animal in the way, and they'll aim for the horse before even trying to hit you in your stomach.

And that full torso piece of armor you linked ends above the pelvis. Fine for somebody on the ground, but a horse rider would still probably castrate themselves wearing it.

It is a one piece design, there are zero aspects of the design that suggests that it possesses two separate segments, the part below the belt is very clearly a different piece of armor altogether, and in real life, being on top of a horse never stopped a soldier from wearing proper armor, any painting and armor recreations of actual medieval times suggests that even cavalry wore heavy armor, Sain only covering his chest is not in any way more practical than covering his torso on the basis of the fact we have real life evidence that supports the contrary.

[KliffIsTheOG]

It generates static electricity

[Extrasolar]

RE: Armor discussion

Yeah, real-life armor was split into a bunch of smaller segments for ease of movement as well as protection.  Kellam's torso armor is silly for being just one giant piece; sure, it would offer him some measure of protection if he was to just stand there and have guys just walk up to him and slash at him, but his mobility would be extremely limited and awkward. Even for a big-ass armor knight toting all kinds of armor, you need some maneuverability in order to fight another guy. Kellam is essentially stuffed into a slightly-oversized tin-suit, with just as much awkwardness as that would imply.

Gatrie's armor does it right. And with a tower shield to boot.

[Slumber]

21 minutes ago, OakTree said:

It is a one piece design, there are zero aspects of the design that suggests that it possesses two separate segments, the part below the belt is very clearly a different piece of armor altogether, and in real life, being on top of a horse never stopped a soldier from wearing proper armor, any painting and armor recreations of actual medieval times suggests that even cavalry wore heavy armor, Sain only covering his chest is not in any way more practical than covering his torso on the basis of the fact we have real life evidence that supports the contrary.

The top portion of that soldier's armor ends very slightly below where Sain's armor ends. And Sain is wearing proper armor. He's wearing the strictest definition of a "breastplate", as in, it covers his most vital bits which are the most vital parts to protect when you're on a horse. The only questionable decision is wearing cloth instead of chainmail to protect his other areas, but what is there is obviously a more stylized/anime-ized version of this. That piece of armor ends right below the ribcage, and strictly covers the front of the knight, which is where Sain's ends.

And just as you can say there are plenty of depictions of cavalry wearing heavy armor(Clearly not ONE PIECE DOWN TO THE THIGH LIKE KELLAM'S), there are also plenty depictions of depictions of medieval cavalry only wearing chainmail, wearing leather armor, wearing lighter armor, similar to Sain, or just straight up not wearing and visible armor at all. A big positive of being on a horse is that the horse itself offers you almost complete protection from anything that isn't an arrow or another dude on a horse. If the horse comes down, you're fucked, regardless if you're wearing heavy armor or not

On the flipside, since this is such a sticking point to you for Sain, I challenge you to find a depiction of infantry wearing anything remotely similar to what Kellam wears, where it is just a single piece of metal from neck to upper thigh.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Slumber

[BalancedPro]

Here's the question, can 90s anime designs fit with modern animation? 

The only series that I've seen has done this right is Jojo Bizarre Adventure?

[OakTree]

23 minutes ago, Slumber said:

The top portion of that soldier's armor ends very slightly below where Sain's armor ends. And Sain is wearing proper armor. He's wearing the strictest definition of a "breastplate", as in, it covers his most vital bits which are the most vital parts to protect when you're on a horse. The only questionable decision is wearing cloth instead of chainmail to protect his other areas, but what is there is obviously a more stylized/anime-ized version of this. That piece of armor ends right below the ribcage, and strictly covers the front of the knight, which is where Sain's ends.

And just as you can say there are plenty of depictions of cavalry wearing heavy armor(Clearly not ONE PIECE DOWN TO THE THIGH LIKE KELLAM'S), there are also plenty depictions of depictions of medieval cavalry only wearing chainmail, wearing leather, wearing lighter armor, similar to Sain, or just straight up not wearing and visible armor at all.

On the flipside, since this is such a sticking point to you for Sain, I challenge you to find a depiction of infantry wearing anything remotely similar to what Kellam wears.

I can't, i'll straight up admit that, mostly because this was never about whether Kellam's design was good, which it isn't, i criticized his dumb shoulder pads and the lack of leg mobility, and mentioned the fact he has a full torso breastplate as something he has over other armored units in the series, even if it isn't done particularly well, and the conversation became about the utility of one piece breastplates, and the main reason i did that is because in my head Kellam's design isn't and will never be as bad as the Black Knight's, who i still consider the worst design in the series (Now that i think about it, Tellius had a lot of lackluster designs that are easily comparable to Awakening's, such as Tauroneo's and Nephenee's). So yeah. I can't do that.

Also while yes, there were horsemen who wore lighter armor, they were for the most part using normal cloth in the front torso while wearing armor in other parts of the body like the arms and helmets in the head, im pretty sure i've never seen one that depicts them as wearing the same "Chest-only breastplate" that the GBA cavaliers use.

25 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

RE: Armor discussion

Yeah, real-life armor was split into a bunch of smaller segments for ease of movement as well as protection.  Kellam's torso armor is silly for being just one giant piece; sure, it would offer him some measure of protection if he was to just stand there and have guys just walk up to him and slash at him, but his mobility would be extremely limited and awkward. Even for a big-ass armor knight toting all kinds of armor, you need some maneuverability in order to fight another guy. Kellam is essentially stuffed into a slightly-oversized tin-suit, with just as much awkwardness as that would imply.

Gatrie's armor does it right. And with a tower shield to boot.

Those shoulder pads are almost as bad as Kellam's, there is no reason to have shoulder pads extend beyond your body, it just hinders you and gives a good spot for enemies to attack so they can disorient you, also, what the hell is up with those pieces in his legs? why not just wear an fauld?

Edited February 28, 2017 by OakTree