I hope that we get an Avatar in this game.

[Tolvir]

Only if they held little plot relevance. Let the, be the narrator or something, the person that eventually chronicles the story of the main lord. Either that or be an advisor/tactician. 

 

I would love love for the avatar to come back, just from a stand point of having a customizable character that I can make my own, but I really don't want the pandering the last two had. 

[Slumber]

On the subject of being able to be any class, assuming there's an MU, I think they should do it FE12 style with more limited reclassing. A quiz that sets your growth rates, and you pick the beginning class. I think the "The MU can be any class! At any moment!" is just lazy and boring. If you have to fit a specific role, rather than fit any role, I think it works better for a strategy game.

Also the quiz can set the backstory. "I was a mage at so-and-so school of magic before joining this army." or "I was a knight for so-and-so" or "I was a mercenary", stuff like that.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Slumber

[mikethepokemaster]

9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Chrom is stupid at the end. "I can't sacrifice Robin even if it keeps Grima from ever coming back! Robin is special!" Really? Remember, Grima destroyed your own daughter's world and forced her in fear and desperate for hope to come to yours. There is no guarantee that light will always overcome darkness, nor that someone else will be able to time travel back to when light stood a chance like this time. Millions of lives are at stake, but you'd rather not sacrifice the one life near to you. Utilitarianism is not always right, but this is one case where it should have taken precedence. Provided Robin didn't go "Chrom is demanding that I sacrifice myself- screw it! Grima here I come!" Squall Leonhart makes a similarly bad decision at the end of FFVIII, but thinking on how many lives it'd save if he chose otherwise, maybe not so many in his case. Chrom should not be a ruler- he is too driven by his heart. Elincia has a heart, but chose to be a realist and let Lucia die (even though her choice got undercut by surprise).

Sorry, had to get that polemic out of me. More on topic- avatars should be unique wholly in their player customization, they should be totally passive in plot.

Ever comes back Grima comes back every 1000 years. Chrome just put him to sleep. Robin has to off him self to kill Grima for good. 

[De Geso]

Avatars are fun to customize and play around with. Having a "my unit" that has growths and classes that you determine is pretty cool. 

I don't like how central they tend to be to the story, though. Even in FE12 the avatar was in quite a few cutscenes that s/he didn't need to be in (taking lines that Jagen said in FE3 for example). 

It would be cool if the avatar was just "a unit that was recruited in chapter 1/prologue/whatever" and they remained about as plot important as any other unit besides the lord. They could be around as important as the siblings from Fates but even that would be pushing it for what I like. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

It would be cool if the avatar was just "a unit that was recruited in chapter 1/prologue/whatever" and they remained about as plot important as any other unit besides the lord. They could be around as important as the siblings from Fates but even that would be pushing it for what I like. 

I was thinking of something like that for a Genealogy remake.

The parameters would be the following:

Sex/Appearance/Voice

Starting Class

Some choice that gives a boost to your base stats (I would like to say personality trait, but I'd rather let the player define this via conversation choices)

Home Country- affects when they join in the Prologue: Grannvale/Agustria has them join with Sigurd, Issach/Silesse/Yied puts them with Lex and Azelle, Manster/Thracia has them join with Quan's trio, Verdane/Miletos has them join with Midir

Holy Blood- you can choose one minor holy blood type except Loptyr and maybe Naga, a "none" option gives a small across the board growths boost

The split between Home Country and Holy Blood is to maximize the space for the player to imagine their own backstories for their avatar.

For the Second Generation, definitely give them a kid; but as for the avatar itself, having them join Sigurd's fate would seem jarring, but if they survived into the Second Generation, not having them be playable would be its own bummer, and balancing a level 30 unit (even after some sort of deleveling) would be difficult

[JJ48]

On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 3:19 AM, Thane said:

I personally think Mark was downright awful; I forgot he was even there until the characters in the game suddenly turned their heads towards me and looked out of the screen as if knowing they were all in the game. Mark contributed nothing but immersion breaking for me.

Personally, my experience was completely opposite.  Mark made me feel like I had more of a connection to the plot and more of a relationship with the characters (though some supports would have been nice).  Mark allowed me to participate in the story without overshadowing everyone else (though that casual mention of Bern and Etruria going to war trying to enlist your services seems like a pretty big deal, I guess).

[shadowofchaos]

I almost feel like the OP was a troll post.

"Games make you feel special" is a given. But If/Fates took it to a ridiculous degree.

[Thane]

14 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Personally, my experience was completely opposite.  Mark made me feel like I had more of a connection to the plot and more of a relationship with the characters (though some supports would have been nice).  Mark allowed me to participate in the story without overshadowing everyone else (though that casual mention of Bern and Etruria going to war trying to enlist your services seems like a pretty big deal, I guess).

Neat. To me it was jarring.

[Dragonage2ftw]

On 3/6/2017 at 2:22 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Chrom is stupid at the end. "I can't sacrifice Robin even if it keeps Grima from ever coming back! Robin is special!" Really? Remember, Grima destroyed your own daughter's world and forced her in fear and desperate for hope to come to yours. There is no guarantee that light will always overcome darkness, nor that someone else will be able to time travel back to when light stood a chance like this time. Millions of lives are at stake, but you'd rather not sacrifice the one life near to you. Utilitarianism is not always right, but this is one case where it should have taken precedence. Provided Robin didn't go "Chrom is demanding that I sacrifice myself- screw it! Grima here I come!" Squall Leonhart makes a similarly bad decision at the end of FFVIII, but thinking on how many lives it'd save if he chose otherwise, maybe not so many in his case. Chrom should not be a ruler- he is too driven by his heart. Elincia has a heart, but chose to be a realist and let Lucia die (even though her choice got undercut by surprise).

Sorry, had to get that polemic out of me. More on topic- avatars should be unique wholly in their player customization, they should be totally passive in plot.

To be fair, his reasoning, while not being 100% agreeable, is sound. Robin could be sacrificing himself for nothing. For all they know, no one will ever try to summon Grima again.

[Dragonage2ftw]

On 3/6/2017 at 10:31 PM, Slumber said:

On the subject of being able to be any class, assuming there's an MU, I think they should do it FE12 style with more limited reclassing. A quiz that sets your growth rates, and you pick the beginning class. I think the "The MU can be any class! At any moment!" is just lazy and boring. If you have to fit a specific role, rather than fit any role, I think it works better for a strategy game.

Also the quiz can set the backstory. "I was a mage at so-and-so school of magic before joining this army." or "I was a knight for so-and-so" or "I was a mercenary", stuff like that.

Didn't they already try to do that with Fates, though?

 

I mean, Corrin can only reclass to what he's "talented" as.

[Augestein]

17 hours ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

To be fair, his reasoning, while not being 100% agreeable, is sound. Robin could be sacrificing himself for nothing. For all they know, no one will ever try to summon Grima again.

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. It's not that "no one will ever try to summon Grima again." It's more akin to this: no one is sure that Robin dealing the final blow will guarantee that Grima never returns. They do however, know that Robin killing Grima rather than Chrom guarantees Robin's death-- even if it's possible that it's only temporary. Knowing this, neither answer is not inherently wrong. What makes Chrom's mentality so miserable is that he basically says "I'm not willing to have a world without you." Which is just irresponsible. Especially when the actual answer for why he wouldn't want to sacrifice Robin is right in front of you, the player, and even Chrom, he just doesn't think of the right way to say it. 

 

17 hours ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

Didn't they already try to do that with Fates, though?

 

I mean, Corrin can only reclass to what he's "talented" as.

Sort of: Corrin could A rank extra people to get more classes. The rest of the units in the game were limited to their marriage partner, and their A+ friendship. Corrin can literally choose any class, and their class limitation is limited to the people that they don't A rank. 

[JJ48]

5 minutes ago, Augestein said:

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. It's not that "no one will ever try to summon Grima again." It's more akin to this: no one is sure that Robin dealing the final blow will guarantee that Grima never returns. They do however, know that Robin killing Grima rather than Chrom guarantees Robin's death-- even if it's possible that it's only temporary. Knowing this, neither answer is not inherently wrong. What makes Chrom's mentality so miserable is that he basically says "I'm not willing to have a world without you." Which is just irresponsible. Especially when the actual answer for why he wouldn't want to sacrifice Robin is right in front of you, the player, and even Chrom, he just doesn't think of the right way to say it. 

 

Sort of: Corrin could A rank extra people to get more classes. The rest of the units in the game were limited to their marriage partner, and their A+ friendship. Corrin can literally choose any class, and their class limitation is limited to the people that they don't A rank. 

I think it may be tied to gender, so Corrin only gets any A-Supports of the same gender as Corrin.  Opposite gender has to actually marry Corrin to grant classes.

At least, that's my understanding.

[Augestein]

3 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I think it may be tied to gender, so Corrin only gets any A-Supports of the same gender as Corrin.  Opposite gender has to actually marry Corrin to grant classes.

At least, that's my understanding.

Yes. That's how it works. But regardless, there's generally a male and female version of every class. There are some exceptions, like there's no way to get Oni Savage as a male without marrying Rinkah or having Fighter as your base class choice to get as a parallel class (you'd have to A rank Arthur in that case). The point was that Corrin doesn't play by the same rules as other characters. Ignoring that, it's still superior to Robin's "I have every class in the freaking game at base." At least Corrin's requires grinding to snap the game in two, and if you do, that's on the player, not the base system. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Augestein

[NekoKnight]

11 hours ago, Augestein said:

Yes. That's how it works. But regardless, there's generally a male and female version of every class. There are some exceptions, like there's no way to get Oni Savage as a male without marrying Rinkah or having Fighter as your base class choice to get as a parallel class (you'd have to A rank Arthur in that case). The point was that Corrin doesn't play by the same rules as other characters. Ignoring that, it's still superior to Robin's "I have every class in the freaking game at base." At least Corrin's requires grinding to snap the game in two, and if you do, that's on the player, not the base system. 

Um, you mean besides choosing Oni Savage as your talent?

Also, it's true that Robin can change to any class in the game, but if you want to get a huge collection of skills, you need to buy the class changing seal AND grind him. It's just as much the player's fault for breaking the system.

[Slumber]

2 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Um, you mean besides choosing Oni Savage as your talent?

Also, it's true that Robin can change to any class in the game, but if you want to get a huge collection of skills, you need to buy the class changing seal AND grind him. It's just as much the player's fault for breaking the system.

Second Seals are dirt cheap by the time they unlock, and grinding EXP is ridiculously easy in Awakening. AND considering that you always keep your stat gains when reclassing, the game actually does very little to discourage you from doing this. If anything, it's way harder to play the game without just reclassing at every optimal opportunity, and way more on the player to just ignore simple game mechanics that are basically built for Robin to break.

[NekoKnight]

10 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Second Seals are dirt cheap by the time they unlock, and grinding EXP is ridiculously easy in Awakening. AND considering that you always keep your stat gains when reclassing, the game actually does very little to discourage you from doing this. If anything, it's way harder to play the game without just reclassing at every optimal opportunity, and way more on the player to just ignore simple game mechanics that are basically built for Robin to break.

Oh, I don't deny that it was easy to break, just that the core problem remains grinding, which is a conscious decision on the player's part. I do like how Fates did reclassing better (the level not resetting) but people aren't discussing how reclassing works, they are discussing how many class sets the Avatar starts with. It's not really that big a difference to have all classes available from the get-go and having to support grind for them. More support grinding in Fates and more EXP grinding in Awakening to get the same result.

Edited March 11, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Augestein]

4 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Um, you mean besides choosing Oni Savage as your talent?

Also, it's true that Robin can change to any class in the game, but if you want to get a huge collection of skills, you need to buy the class changing seal AND grind him. It's just as much the player's fault for breaking the system.

Yes and no. I was talking about the A support system for how Corrin works. IE, Corrin male reaching A with Rinkah does not unlock Oni Savage, but for Corrin female it does. Corrin male cannot get Oni Savage through A support abuse except for having Fighter as his base class while female Corrin can. In this case, it just sucks for Male Corrin because Female Corrin can still get fighter through Velouria.

It's not that much grinding though. Veteran + Awakening's busted EXP curve makes it pretty easy to grab skills so long as you aren't actively grinding to level 20. If you hit level 10 and promote ASAP, and then second seal quickly, you can easily get quite a few skills. Far faster than you can gain Robin's array of classes on Corrin at any rate. 

It kinda is that big of a deal, Robin's array of classes with veteran is far more initially exploitable than what we're given with Corrin. Robin doesn't care what you choose as your base class for having the classes. Let's use an example: 

Let's say Corrin chooses Cavalier  in Conquest. Cavalier Corrin Male can gain access to Ninja through supporting Silas and getting a Parallel class, OR just gaining A on Kaze. Meanwhile, female Corrin cannot get access to ninja and cavalier classes until at least Peri unless she marries Silas or Kaze. It makes a pretty big difference. Because even if you grind, the game just flat out bars certain classes from you. Robin literally has 0 restrictions and just makes his children super powerful. Corrin, while good, doesn't give nearly as much power as giving potentially 2 children every class in the game that's not gender locked. That's also ignoring the slower EXP growth rate too. 

[NekoKnight]

26 minutes ago, Augestein said:

Let's say Corrin chooses Cavalier  in Conquest. Cavalier Corrin Male can gain access to Ninja through supporting Silas and getting a Parallel class, OR just gaining A on Kaze. Meanwhile, female Corrin cannot get access to ninja and cavalier classes until at least Peri unless she marries Silas or Kaze. It makes a pretty big difference. Because even if you grind, the game just flat out bars certain classes from you. Robin literally has 0 restrictions and just makes his children super powerful. Corrin, while good, doesn't give nearly as much power as giving potentially 2 children every class in the game that's not gender locked. That's also ignoring the slower EXP growth rate too. 

These things are true, and I appreciate the measures that IS took to scale back how easy it is to change classes/acquire skills. That said, skill buying is a thing in Fates too, which is an even faster way of breaking the game in half, if you so desire. I feel that Robin's class selection is less a problem than the rest of the mechanics that surround it  (easy experience and resetting your level). Reclassing several times is still a deliberate choice, even if it's easier to abuse in Awakening.

[Kil0]

On 3/1/2017 at 9:50 AM, Dragonage2ftw said:

Let's get real here. Avatars are great. They make the games better, as you can imagine that you're having a fun little adventure in the lands of whatever game you're playing.

 

This game needs an Avatar. If it doesn't have one, we'll lose the Awakening/Fates crowd. And that's bad, m'kay.

They make the game...better? That's a very bold statement, and I thought that this was a joke when I read it the first time. Just...no... 

no

[mikethepokemaster]

10 hours ago, arctic.fox0708 said:

They make the game...better? That's a very bold statement, and I thought that this was a joke when I read it the first time. Just...no... 

no

you know it his opinion right damn I know the Avatar is not well like by the vets but to say his is a no means you cant see other opinion on the matter. I can understand why vet dislike it since they ay it ruines the story I can agree with Corrin but not with Robin. minor character Avatars can be great.

[Augestein]

38 minutes ago, mikethepokemaster said:

you know it his opinion right damn I know the Avatar is not well like by the vets but to say his is a no means you cant see other opinion on the matter. I can understand why vet dislike it since they ay it ruines the story I can agree with Corrin but not with Robin. minor character Avatars can be great.

I'm a vet and I like the avatar and think it should stay. If anything, I'd actually argue that more casual players prefer not having one on the account that they care about story integrity so much for their reasoning against one.

[mikethepokemaster]

44 minutes ago, Augestein said:

I'm a vet and I like the avatar and think it should stay. If anything, I'd actually argue that more casual players prefer not having one on the account that they care about story integrity so much for their reasoning against one.

Hey a vet who doesn't hate the mechanic. I find that ironic that casual gamer don't want the Avatar since most games now do a avatar mechanic in some ways. 

[Spoiler Alert]

1 hour ago, mikethepokemaster said:

you know it his opinion right damn I know the Avatar is not well like by the vets but to say his is a no means you cant see other opinion on the matter. I can understand why vet dislike it since they ay it ruines the story I can agree with Corrin but not with Robin. minor character Avatars can be great.

I think it’s bold to say that avatars are not well liked by veteran players.

I’ve been playing Fire Emblem since ’04 and I really liked Robin.  I really hope that Intelligent Systems continues to improve on avatars and keeps including them in future games.  I think player avatars are an enjoyable element to have in a game when it works.  However, I also think that Fire Emblem has a bit of room for improvement on their use of them.  It's unfortunate that the topic seems to attract a lot of negativity whenever it gets brought up, which admittedly gets on my nerves, but it’s just some opinions and hardly representative of how "veteran players" feel.

[Thinks Their Own Way]

As long as it isn't like Marc in FE7 I'm happy. I was not a fan of the characters staring straight into the camera to talk to you in the story mode, it feels out of place to me. Or maybe I'm in the camp of if it's not a playable avatar why bother programming them into the game.

[Kil0]

21 hours ago, mikethepokemaster said:

you know it his opinion right damn I know the Avatar is not well like by the vets but to say his is a no means you cant see other opinion on the matter. I can understand why vet dislike it since they ay it ruines the story I can agree with Corrin but not with Robin. minor character Avatars can be great.

Uhhh, didn't really understand most of that, but chill. Not sure if you played FE12 with their attempt at a semi-minor character avatar, but their characters have never been good, and have always hurt the story. I would have liked an Awakening without Robin honestly.