What would guns add (that crossbows wouldn't)?

[Jotari]

So occasionally when discussing weapons and stuff the series could add, someone suggests firearms. Makes sense from a technological stand point. These countries seem to be all medieval for thousands of years so semi efficient guns coming common use isn't particularly unexpected. However, I do wonder, in terms of gameplay, what would a gun actually add to the game that a crossbow wouldn't? As depicted in Radiant Dawn, crossbows are high might, high accuracy weapons that don't take strength into account. In terms of use, crossbows effectively are guns. So what particular trait do you think guns could have that would distinguish them from crossbows?

Edited March 3, 2017 by Jotari

[Tetragrammaton]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

So occasionally when discussing weapons and stuff the series could add, someone suggests firearms. Makes sense from a technological stand point. These countries seem to be all medieval for thousands of years so semi efficient guns coming common use isn't particularly unexpected. However, I do wonder, in terms of gameplay, what would a gun actually add to the game that a crossbow wouldn't? As depicted in Radiant Dawn, crossbows are high might, high accuracy weapons that don't take strength into defense. In terms of use, crossbows effectively are guns. So what particular trait do you think guns could have that would distinguish them from crossbows?

I know a FE4 hack that has gun as a weapon type, but I don't play it further to know more about it.

[Moblin Major General]

I know as a fact that just hearing a gun go off can be deafening without ear protection. It was also extremely demoralizing hearing something so loud. With that in mind, having guns in FE would be like combining crossbows and shuriken, except that the debuffs would affect not only the target unit, but all of the surrounding units. To counter this, I would say that most gun-wielding classes would have to have a low Skill stat and growth, as most of the time, pre-modern firearms were usually used en masse because of their lack of accuracy.

[Trymer]

a 1-2 range with set might not taking into account str, but at a much lower weight then crossbows?

but seeing as the first muskets had meh reload times it still shouldn't be able to double. so I don't see an effective use yet...

maybe add effectiveness against armored units? Similar to piercing rounds?

[MCProductions]

They'd actually be fun to use unlike Crossbows which I legit forgot existed in my FE10 run

[Jotari]

11 minutes ago, Trymer said:

a 1-2 range with set might not taking into account str, but at a much lower weight then crossbows?

but seeing as the first muskets had meh reload times it still shouldn't be able to double. so I don't see an effective use yet...

maybe add effectiveness against armored units? Similar to piercing rounds?

Effectiveness against armored units is something a crossbow would just as logically have. And a lower weight isn't going to make a massive amount of difference if you can't double anyway.

3 minutes ago, MCProductions said:

They'd actually be fun to use unlike Crossbows which I legit forgot existed in my FE10 run

Fun in what way? Just based on the aesthetic?

Edited March 3, 2017 by Jotari

[MCProductions]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Effectiveness against armored units is something a crossbow would just as logically have. And a lower weight isn't going to make a massive amount of difference if you can't double anyway.

Fun in what way? Just based on the aesthetic?

I mean, shooting a gun is much more impactful than a crossbow so yeah

[Trymer]

well guns traditionally in the early conception where only in favor to bows because you could damage the enemy without having much strength yourself.

Unless you go into the guns which hold more ammo it'd become interesting, but then you'd go a lot of years into the future from the medieval weapon and magic setting.

I'm not in favor of adding guns though, they don't seem all that interesting to me, crossbows didn't either to me xD

[Nym]

A powerful range weapon, but can only be use every 2 turns (because reload time you know).

[EricaofRenais]

I would like cannons in a ship fight map or a castle map, but i don't really don't want gun units that much.

[Tolvir]

Story wise it could be really interesting. It could set up a more technologically advanced kingdom set apart from the typical medieval style dark ages technology that Fire Emblem traditionally uses. a kingdom that borderlines on Steampunk would be really cool imo as a side kingdom with a few characters recruited from it. I am not sure I would want it as the main kingdom though.

Gameplay wise they could be really interesting. High Might, no stat effectiveness outside of skill effecting accuracy and crit, ammunition and reloading, and a large range would make it an interesting and good weapon without it being overpowered.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Tolvir

[Jotari]

7 minutes ago, EricaofRenais said:

I would like cannons in a ship fight map or a castle map, but i don't really don't want gun units that much.

Funnily enough, Hans did call his troops cannon fodder in Fates...Maybe he was talking about the DLC class?

[BANRYU]

Not that I strictly think they SHOULD be added to the series, but hypothetically speaking, there is a lot they could add depending on the time period IMO, since there are many different kinds of guns etc. 

If we're talking period-relevant weaponry, like early chinese firearms, there's the flamethrower-on-stick for AoE potential, the hand cannon for high-damaging but unwieldy artillery strikes, and then rifles and such later down the line, which presumably hit harder than crossbows without requiring the user's Str, possibly shoot further, and counterattacks would likely be impossible due to reload times etc. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by BANRYU

[HK Motendra]

Each time you take a hit, your max HP goes down a little for realism

[The DanMan]

More material for purists to complain about.

But seriously, there's a lot that could be done with guns. Making them high power, middling accuracy, and unable to double I think would provide a nice compromise between usability in-game and realism. I'd be OK with guns if they didn't go beyond early muzzle-loaders.

[Extrasolar]

Early guns as a whole were pretty crappy - they had a tendency to jam or misfire, their accuracy sucked, they had very poor range for a ranged weapon, they created a lot of noise and smoke, reloading was a huge hassle, and they were in general were inferior to bows in most every way. Granted, we can overlook a lot of that in fiction land, but it would still be on the back of my mind, bothering me about them.

Not sure I like the idea of including them... I suppose if we stuck with Awakening's more Renaissance-era setting as opposed to the more traditionally medieval setting of FE, they would make some sense in being included, but...eh, they just don't seem all that interesting to me. Crossbows I liked, even though I never really used them, because they fit in neatly with the setting, and them being bows that don't apply the user's strength, but have a higher base damage due to the firing mechanism, makes sense.

Although...a grizzled musketeer does sound like a cool concept for a character, as do small legions of musketeers. Huh, guess I'm on the fence about this one.

[Dragrath]

Hmm considering earlier fire arms tended to feature unwieldy reloads and pitiful(shot gun) accuracy (pre rifling)

I imagine they would be the stronger but less accurate counterpart to Crossbows quiet possibly with an AOE effect. Both would ignore the wielders stats in calculation and with exception of repeating crossbows or the much later automatic fire arms they would likely be unable to double or counter attack given post FE14 mechanics.

If this type of weapon does appear in future games I'd hope for them to be class neutral personally as that was the main advantage of them IRL over Bows(which were stronger if the wielder was trained in their use)

[NekoKnight]

I'd go with high might/crit counter-balanced by lack of doubling and poor accuracy. They'd probably be worthless against dodgy foes but strong vs defense or HP oriented classes.

[KoimanZX]

7 hours ago, Trymer said:

well guns traditionally in the early conception where only in favor to bows because you could damage the enemy without having much strength yourself.

Unless you go into the guns which hold more ammo it'd become interesting, but then you'd go a lot of years into the future from the medieval weapon and magic setting.

I'm not in favor of adding guns though, they don't seem all that interesting to me, crossbows didn't either to me xD

The arquebus, one of the earliest firearms in Europe, was first used in the 15th century, which is around the time plate armor was in vogue.

[Trymer]

3 minutes ago, KoimanZX said:

The arquebus, one of the earliest firearms in Europe, was first used in the 15th century, which is around the time plate armor was in vogue.

that's earlier than I expected, but still late 15th century.
but it got me into thinking... pike and shot tactics.

if they att at 1 range you satb and shoot them for guaranteed crit :D

[Beelzebub]

The problem with fixed attack power weapons is that they don't play well with stat inflation or super effective damage. Otherwise, you could do some pretty fun stuff with guns. Blunderbuss that could attack in a cone. Musket and bayonet that acts as a gun and a melee weapon. Double barreled pistol that acts as a brave weapon, ect.