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What Should Conquest have been like?


Jotari
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So judging by the results of this thread 

 people generally think Conquest had a low of potential as a story idea that was heavily undershot by what we got. So I ask you, what should Conquest have been like? You can consider it from a very generic perspective (ie what should playing as the more aggressive nation be like) or a very specific perspective (what should the Hoshido/Nohr conflict with those exact same characters have ben like).

Personally I think Conquest should have been about breaking the Camus archtype by pointing out the logistical flaws in continuing to follow a mad man. Slwoly converting each member ot the siblings one by one as the stroy progressess. Probably the worst thing in my eyes about Conquest is how the whole goo Garon point is handled and everyone is okay with whole sale slaughter if it's their father, but if it's not their father than suddenly it's bad.

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It should have been like the Wei story in Warriors Orochi. The main character followed the orders of his rulers, but he was simultaneously undermining them by releasing defeated enemies, helping them out in a roundabout way or purposefully letting them escape. In the process of doing this, he was gaining favors from these people and weakening his overlords so that when he did eventually revolt, he had the numbers, the advantage, allies and trust of his former subordinates to back him up in case dookie hit the fan.

So, essentially, the whole "change Nohr from the inside" thing we were supposed to get but never got. The story could have worked with Gooron, but it would have been preferable with a human Garon.

I read on reddit where someone suggested that, during the hypothetical revolution during this hypothetical CQ storyline, Hoshido could have invaded the divided, weakened Nohr. I thought that would have been interesting and would have added in some of the needed moral ambiguity to the game.

Alas, we didn't get any of that stuff. I enjoyed CQ, but it had so much squandered potential, in my opinion.

 

Edited by saisymbolic
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50 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Personally I think Conquest should have been about breaking the Camus archtype by pointing out the logistical flaws in continuing to follow a mad man. Slwoly converting each member ot the siblings one by one as the stroy progressess. Probably the worst thing in my eyes about Conquest is how the whole goo Garon point is handled and everyone is okay with whole sale slaughter if it's their father, but if it's not their father than suddenly it's bad.

Garon the slime monster was the worst thing and should never have even been thought up, worst concept and boss ever

But this hit the nail right on the head for my problems with the Conquest path, in that it made every single one of the royals hypocritical and unlikable ("we're morally good people, we swear, now brb while I go slaughter some Hoshidans for my crazy conquering dad in the hopes that he'll hug me again soon"), especially Xander, who is supposed to live and breathe strict, upstanding morality, no exceptions even for his family (he pretty much threatens to execute Corrin if they're lying about Garon being slime monster), but during the entire path he's nothing but Garon's tool and attack dog along with Corrin, Leo and Camilla.

First off, just to make it make sense why these supposedly good/moral people do Garon's bidding, my Garon would be a cynical, cold and somewhat violent guy who somehow became bitter and disillusioned with the world in the past, but he'd still have a soft spot for his children and regularly confer with them on his goals. Emphasize that the people of Nohr are suffering from starvation, and that they need Hoshido's goods if they're going to alleviate this. Even so, it's clear that the man has some sort of personal vendetta and inherent cruelty that wants to revel in Hoshido's suffering and destruction -- he seems a bit too excited at the prospect of slaying the Hoshidan royals.

Corrin brings up simply opening a dialogue with Hoshido to start trade, but Garon shuts them down by virtue of them being "naive." The Hoshidans will not talk; the strong must take what they want to survive, it's us or them, and all of that.

So Corrin, out of concern for Nohr's people, reluctantly agrees to assist in conquering Hoshido...but at each turn, Garon asks more and more morally challenging choices of Corrin, and the siblings make excuses for Garon's orders to convince Corrin to continue with them, even when it's clear that they're flimsy ones and/or the siblings don't believe the justifications themselves. They begin to doubt that their father is the same man they loved. Corrin has had enough.

At Cheve, Corrin challenges Hans and lets Scarlet and the others escape, and Scarlet goes to vouch that the "Nohrian Prince(ss)" isn't as bloodthirsty or violent as they seem to be at first.

Ryoma and Takumi's deaths make Corrin draws the line, and during the siege of the capitol city they desert the Nohrian army and raises a force of allied Hoshidans, with Scarlet responsible for recruiting them, against Garon alongside their retainers, Azura, Kaze, Silas and Shura, disgusted with how far things have come.

Their siblings, stunned, are ordered by Garon to kill the traitor...no matter how much it weighs on his heart, he's not going to let his own child stand in his way of conquering and crushing Hoshido.

The siblings meet up with Corrin, and when Corrin calls them out on their being a tool to a madman and compromising their own principles, they join them and fight against Garon. They defeat him, and together with Xander as the new king and Corrin as his advisor, plan to open negotiations with Hoshido and Queen Hinoka and bring Nohr into a brighter era together. Happy end...sort of. Ryoma and Takumi are still dead.

My Conquest is "believe in the good of people, there's more important things than physical strength, and compassion isn't foolish or wasted."

Yeah... I have a lot of thoughts about this...

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1 hour ago, unique said:

i'd suggest not having the villain be a slime monster in disguise

Actually, having Garon turn into that thing made a surprising amount of my friends find themselves no longer as opposed to the idea of killing one's own father, disturbing though that may be. For myself, I thought it was cooler than his final Birthright form - it took me like five minutes to realize he was trying to be a dragon while I got what he was being in Conquest almost immediately, plus he puts his whole heart and soul into straight up CATAPULTING that Greataxe at you. Everyone does also seem to have issues with the idea of killing your father - for whatever reason, this seems to not appeal to people. I don't get it, I have no issues with mercilessly slaughtering Ganon Garon(I mix them up every time) after deciding I want Takumi to die instead of Elise, but hey, there you go. If you chose Birthright, it doesn't matter, you aren't thinking of him as your father, but in Conquest you chose him over your own "flesh and blood" so it feels a little twisted to then turn around and slaughter him…unless there's a convenient plot device, like say him being possessed by some demonic something-or-other that you have to pay $20 more to learn about if you don't want to just google "FE Fates Revelations Plot" and so you're not killing him, per se, you're more like…saving him!;): Terribly convenient for the writers, not having to explain the whole killing your not-real father after choosing him over your "real" family thing away.

I don't really know what exactly bothered me about Conquest - the one thing I was worried about after finishing Birthright was they'd kill Sakura (#RIPBirthrightElise), and thankfully even Iago isn't that sadistic. "But Ryoma committed suicide! Isn't that a terrible thing to show little kids?" First off, the entire FE series is clearly for people with at least some degree of tactical interest if not know-how, eliminating most if not all females under the age of 18 and most if not all people under the age of 14, at least looking at all the people I know, so little kids isn't something to worry about. Second, that's not the same thing as Suicide, it's actually Hara-kiri, and it's a matter of honor, not depression like regular suicide is commonly seen as - if a Samurai was captured by the enemy, it was his Duty to ensure he never had to bear the shame of such defeat(hence Ryoma's quote "I will fulfill a Samurai's final duty" - I was actually impressed that they would go as far as to throw that in, probably the one decent thing NoA managed to not censor. Way to get people to do their homework, guys - leave the mention of an honorable way to kill oneself in the game but get those swimsuits out!), not to mention to also ensure he couldn't be used as ransom or plied for knowledge by his enemies. "But Takumi got possessed and we had to kill him too!" Who? Oh, the jerkface who wouldn't stop screaming about treason long enough for us to actually explain what was going on? Yeah, definitely didn't miss him, I was busy looking at Camilla's I MEAN moving on. "But we had to beat up Hinoka and break her heart after all that time she spent trying to find us!" Frankly, I found it worth it to see video proof that humans can use spears as a form of aerial transportation(I told them that was a thing). I have more but I gotta go, so I'll end here and come back tomorrow.

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3 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Yeah... I have a lot of thoughts about this...

You're certainly not alone. Considering I bothered spending hours upon hours actually making a full 28 chapter rewrite which I continually revised. And mind you I acknowledge it to be garbage (for one Garon and Mikoto are either too angelic or too evil at any given time). I really should've spent the time doing meaningful things with my life (or actually playing games).

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20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You're certainly not alone. Considering I bothered spending hours upon hours actually making a full 28 chapter rewrite which I continually revised. And mind you I acknowledge it to be garbage (for one Garon and Mikoto are either too angelic or too evil at any given time). I really should've spent the time doing meaningful things with my life (or actually playing games).

Mikoto! She's someone who I would gray-up a lot (along with Hoshido itself) should this topic have been "what would you have done with Birthright..." Fates in general just needed a lot of rewrites. For one, Mikoto wouldn't be offed in the chapter she gets introduced...

And wow, you've gone a bit more in-depth with me about it. I've just got general concepts.

Edited by Extrasolar
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4 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Garon the slime monster was the worst thing and should never have even been thought up, worst concept and boss ever

But this hit the nail right on the head for my problems with the Conquest path, in that it made every single one of the royals hypocritical and unlikable ("we're morally good people, we swear, now brb while I go slaughter some Hoshidans for my crazy conquering dad in the hopes that he'll hug me again soon"), especially Xander, who is supposed to live and breathe strict, upstanding morality, no exceptions even for his family (he pretty much threatens to execute Corrin if they're lying about Garon being slime monster), but during the entire path he's nothing but Garon's tool and attack dog along with Corrin, Leo and Camilla.

First off, just to make it make sense why these supposedly good/moral people do Garon's bidding, my Garon would be a cynical, cold and somewhat violent guy who somehow became bitter and disillusioned with the world in the past, but he'd still have a soft spot for his children and regularly confer with them on his goals. Emphasize that the people of Nohr are suffering from starvation, and that they need Hoshido's goods if they're going to alleviate this. Even so, it's clear that the man has some sort of personal vendetta and inherent cruelty that wants to revel in Hoshido's suffering and destruction -- he seems a bit too excited at the prospect of slaying the Hoshidan royals.

Corrin brings up simply opening a dialogue with Hoshido to start trade, but Garon shuts them down by virtue of them being "naive." The Hoshidans will not talk; the strong must take what they want to survive, it's us or them, and all of that.

So Corrin, out of concern for Nohr's people, reluctantly agrees to assist in conquering Hoshido...but at each turn, Garon asks more and more morally challenging choices of Corrin, and the siblings make excuses for Garon's orders to convince Corrin to continue with them, even when it's clear that they're flimsy ones and/or the siblings don't believe the justifications themselves. They begin to doubt that their father is the same man they loved. Corrin has had enough.

At Cheve, Corrin challenges Hans and lets Scarlet and the others escape, and Scarlet goes to vouch that the "Nohrian Prince(ss)" isn't as bloodthirsty or violent as they seem to be at first.

Ryoma and Takumi's deaths make Corrin draws the line, and during the siege of the capitol city they desert the Nohrian army and raises a force of allied Hoshidans, with Scarlet responsible for recruiting them, against Garon alongside their retainers, Azura, Kaze, Silas and Shura, disgusted with how far things have come.

Their siblings, stunned, are ordered by Garon to kill the traitor...no matter how much it weighs on his heart, he's not going to let his own child stand in his way of conquering and crushing Hoshido.

The siblings meet up with Corrin, and when Corrin calls them out on their being a tool to a madman and compromising their own principles, they join them and fight against Garon. They defeat him, and together with Xander as the new king and Corrin as his advisor, plan to open negotiations with Hoshido and Queen Hinoka and bring Nohr into a brighter era together. Happy end...sort of. Ryoma and Takumi are still dead.

My Conquest is "believe in the good of people, there's more important things than physical strength, and compassion isn't foolish or wasted."

Yeah... I have a lot of thoughts about this...

This... this is beautiful. *sniff*

In all seriousness, if Conquest had been like this, I'd actually bring myself to replay it WITHOUT skipping the story bits. And it would have made good on all the promises they gave us.

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Well, a good start would be delivering on what they said the game was going to be like. I expected some political intrigue, reformations, building a rebel army, etc. Hell I thought they were going in that direction at first when Corrin got the support of the Ice Tribe.

I know it has been said a thousand times, but Garon being irredeemable didn't exactly improve things.

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Conquest is frustrating because it has so much potential to be a good game. Running through the script you can see areas that could easily have been tightened up that would link to create a beautiful (and tragic) world. The best stories involve the interplay of strong themes and create lasting impressions through epic and quiet moments and characters. Twists by themselves amount to nothing if the reader has not been invested properly. Similarly, antagonists serve to propel the story along while also (if properly written) create an investment in the hero's journey and sweep up the reader, however this does not have to be limited to them being evil for evil's sake, which was the route Conquest chose. The most iconic villains have glimpses of humanity and can cause us to empathize with them even while we hate their guts. All this to say, I think Garon is woefully written and casts a shadow on everything he touches, which, unfortunately, is almost the entire game. This is infuriating because there are SO many themes to work with. Family/Honor, Sacrifice/Retribution, The perils of naivety in a broken world, Patriotism/Fanaticism. Making Garon a more sympathetic character focused on Nohr creates a more compelling narrative for the reader and leads to a much more powerful finale. My changes to the script are as follows, however please note that while these are mostly positively alignment changes for Garon, the overwhelming interactions with him inside the game remain negative until the end. 

---

(Pre-Game Backstory)

-Trade agreement between Nohr and Hoshido exists, with Nohr supplying weapons/iron and Hoshido supplying food. Famine is believed to be spreading from Nohr to Hoshido, causing Hoshido to focus on it's citizens/store food/adopt isolationism.

 

-Nohr has begun to starve without the food from Hoshido. Attempts to cultivate other food sources fail, leaving Garon (who has immense pride in Nohr and is just at the time) broken and desperate. He supplicates first to the Dark Dragon, then to the Light Dragon, then finally to any and every deity good and evil for aid. Enter Anankos who begins to corrupt Garon, whispering words of war and preying on his feelings of duty to Nohr. Provides him power and encourages him to attack Hoshido. 

 

-After killing Sumeragi and taking Corrin, Garon feels himself changing, slipping into madness, with the intensity of Anankos' hold on him exploding when he sees the child. He knows whatever is whispering to him wants Corrin for it's devices, so in a moment of lucidity he orders them kept in the Northern Fortress. While he allows visitors, Garon himself never comes to visit in fear of the madness gripping him again. Instructs Corrin to be raised so they may fight for the glory of Nohr. 

(Chapters 1-5)

-Garon has slipped much, much further into madness. Outbursts of crazed laughter are common, particularly when it comes to defending Nohr (i.e., his glee in ordering the execution of the spies). When Corrin prevents the execution of Kaze he is unhinged, threatening to kill Corrin and anyone else who would threaten Nohr or give aid to it's enemies. Xander curses Corrin's naivety and his offer to execute the prisoners is met with enthusiastic approval, exceeded only by Garon's perverse laughter when Leo intercedes instead. With the prisoners dead (to him), Garon returns to relative normal and admonishes Corrin for putting Nohr at risk, stating Hoshido cannot be trusted and as a royal of Nohr they should remember that. On his way out, Garon instructs Xander to educate Corrin about the ways of the world. Corrin wants a perfect world but Xander mentions the trade war and it's impact on the kingdom. Sympathetic but unconvinced, Corrin muses about living together in peace.

 

-Garon, in a relatively benevolent mood, rebuffs himself for his expectations of Corrin. Having been in a tower their whole lives, they could not appreciate the glory of Nohr, having never truly seen it. He instructs the royal siblings to take Corrin on a tour of the land, however, upon Iago's objections. his attitude changes and in a crazed fit of giggles he agrees Corrin should go alone. At the border, Hans uses the presence of Hoshidan soldiers as a pretense to attack, suggesting they are a scouting party attempting to invade. After the battle, Hans does not mention it was Garon who ordered the attack, just that he was simply following orders.

 

(Conquest)

Going to be more general from here because I've spent way too much time on this already

 

-When Corrin returns Garon looks almost pained when he notices the Yato, remarking negatively before bitterly dismissing it and the prophecy of saving the world. As the game progresses we see Garon occasionally attempt to resist the allure of Anankos' madness, arguing with himself and being contradictory. He treats Corrin's successes as triumphs, remarking on how they serve the glory of Nohr.

 

-It is revealed by the rainbow sage (who had originally sealed the Yato in Hoshido) that he spoke with Garon during the king's pilgrimage and that they discussed something other than power. The rainbow sage mentions that he tried to stop the madness but could only delay it. 

 

-In Valla, Azura explains that she had tried to cure Garon of the influence of Anankos by her dance/song, but that it was impossible. She shows Corrin the image of Garon, stating his heart is gone and that he must be destroyed before he destroys Nohr. Corrin rejects this, believing their father is still inside somewhere. Corrin quickly remember Mikoto's words regarding the Hoshido throne, that those who sit on it regain their true form of mind. Corrin resolves not to tell their siblings as any difference in attitude they showed to their father would be detected. Together they move to take the throne, however Corrin is still naive and believes they can take it peacefully. 

 

-Garon becomes completely unhinged after the reveal, with Corrin mentally pleading with him to hold on during their interactions. Many chapters of terrible and awful Garon actions later, when Garon ascends the throne we see a hopeful exuberance from Corrin and Azura. After entering the throne room we get the Gooron cutscene, it obviously did not work. However while his body is under Anankos' control, his mind still fights and pleads with the siblings to destroy him before Anankos takes complete control and causes ruin. 

 

-Swamp Thing

 

-Takumi, enraged by Ryoma's death and the assault on Hoshido, calls upon the power of Anankos in his rage so that he can destroy the Nohrian scum. Further possession ensues and he states he will not be satisfied with just them, but will destroy the entire Nohrian Kingdom and everyone in it. Corrin passes out after the attack. In the dream, Mikoto and Ryoma play out as normal but instead of Takumi joining them as a surprise guest, it is King Garon. We are treated to a bittersweet moment as the King encourages each of his children in a matter that speaks directly counter to their vices (i.e., Elise is so grown up, Leo stands out, Camilla is loved, Xander will be a wise ruler). Corrin is perhaps most distraught, having sacrificed so much for nothing but Garon is thankful for these few moments and remarks of how proud he is to have Corrin as a Nohrian, and as his child. Garon reveals that when he went to the Rainbow sage they spoke of the prophecy and the Yato, with the sage planting hidden knowledge of the location inside. He'd always believed that Corrin would be the one to save the world, and had been subtly suggesting that Anankos bring them there. He implores Corrin to take up the Yato, his gift, and protect Nohr, with gentle prodding from Mikoto leading him to also include protecting Hoshido. Corrin vows to defend Nohr and it's citizens even if it means slaying their brother. (I cannot tell you how disappointed I was that they did not include Good King Garon in the dream)

 

---

What I like about this is that it manages to give the player a positive goal to work for (We've got save our dad!) instead of a negative one (We've got to..kill our dad?) and rewards the player for completing the game with emotional closure. It also removes the stench of evil for evil's sake about Nohr while still giving plenty to wax philosophically about (Is a war ever justified?) and creates growth in Corrin from starry eyed dreamer to a person who must kill to protect their homeland. This obviously changes Garon from the unlovable monster in the original, but I'm a sucker for redemption stories and tragic father figures. 

Edited by AgahnimD
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If anyone is interested, here is my take on Garon (with a gigaton of backstory).

Spoiler
    • Garon- The King of Nohr. In his early to mid fifties, Garon has ruled Nohr for about twenty years. 
      • Garon was raised in Nohr during a turbulent era. Nohr had expanded vastly over the centuries (conquering its great historical rival Cheve and the remaining independent countries west of Centralia between 150-100 years ago), but its expansions, despite prior efforts, had always remained dysfunctionally disconnected- different bureaucratic structures and names and practices prevailed across the lands, and not always simply due to justifiable regional differences. With no further conquests possible without expanding into Valla, Hoshido, or Centralia, Nohr’s modern boundaries were established. But, the system began to move towards utter collapse as the dysfunction bestowed great power on the regional nobles, whose mastery of their incoherent regional laws, tax systems and such was not had by the king and his men. So for a king to get things from his more distant possessions, he needed the regional nobles. And of course oligarchies or monopolies on regional power emerged in many provinces, meaning there were few choices as to who a king could turn to in a region. A series of weak Nohrian kings allowed this to worsen. Garon’s two predecessor kings (either his grandfather and father, or great grandfather and father) sought to vanquish this nightmare and create a unified and effectively governed from the Nohrian political center. The regional nobles protested, and it took decades of civil war and then political quid pro quo squabbling to finally pacify the peripheral regions, create a more coherent set of laws and institutions, and keep the nobles from revolting again by giving them a stake not worth forsaking in the new system. In this history, the earlier predecessor had been the bolder, more successful, more original, and more talented king. Garon’s father began his rule in a rather weak position, a result of his youth on ascension and his natural character. Garon’s Father’s early rule was thus a period when the nobility sensed an opportunity to rebel and reclaim what had been stripped from them. Fortunately, Garon’s Father developed a retinue dedicated to the centralization of Nohrian power, and over decades managed to at last wrest power from the decentralized nobles. In an effort to keep the country unified when prolonged famine struck, the king’s advisors agreed to seek imports from Hoshido, Centralia, and Valla. Hoshido refused saying it had just gone through its own famine, Centralia charged too much given it could play Hoshidan and Nohrian demands against each other. And Valla claimed its historical aloofness which had relegated its foreign interventions to the most serious international political disputes, but which flew in the fast of Anankos XVII’s recent opening of Valla to foreigners. The king’s advisors thus chose to invade Centralia as a desperate measure for food acquisition, and at the same time hoping the fortunes and travails of even a short war could be used to promote national unity. Hoshido responded by coming to Centralia’s defense. However, soon the King of Centralia died leaving the country headless in a time of war and the war basically became one between Nohr and Hoshido with Centralia as the backdrop. The war went on for four or five years, long enough to drain the Nohrian treasury enough to make Nohr wanting of peace. 
      • When Garon’s father was killed by Cadros King of Valla (and the new King of Centralia) during peace talks Cadros arranged in Valla, the thirty year old new King of Nohr set out and destroyed Valla with Hoshido after repelling its invasion forces. Garon is serious, and rarely displays much emotion, despite what his interior may bear. He is like his predecessors austere and somber, and even when delighting in luxuries, keeps his visible outward pleasure minimal. Nohr’s rulers must be majestic through austerity, they must appear indifferent, they must, unlike the worst hedonism and selfishness of the nobles, be able to perceive what is right for Nohr far into the future and to get it done, even at personal loss. Of course, that is the nominal, the ideal, not quite the reality. Garon was since early adulthood also a womanizer, and was rather handsome during those years. He married a woman of high nobility, who ended up bearing four good children for him- the Nohrian royal children. But, as permitted by Nohrian custom, he had affairs. He took care to avoid the conceiving of illegitimates on his lovers, though he did not always succeed, for the sake of appearing responsible and not hedonistic. His early years were promising, he worked to continue in his predecessors’ ways and centralize and render more efficient the Nohrian government, with particular attention to integrating his new possessions of the Kohgan Islands (wrestled during the Hoshido War from Hoshido), West Centralia (Hoshido took the East half), and the Ice Tribe Mountains (the Ice Tribe had sided with Valla- justifying Nohrian conquest of this historically bothersome neighbor), in addition to managing the influx of West Vallite refugees. He fell in love with Arete, who became his only paramour for some time thereafter, though invariably he returned eventually to other women, he did all he could to make sure Arete felt loved, appointed her as Official Mistress, and gave her a child, Azura, whom he swore he would legitimize (once she got past those early years when children were all too oft to die in premodern society). When Arete and Azura were captured by the Ice Tribes and held hostage 15 years ago, Garon had Kohga’s “ninjas” prepare a rescue team, but it failed and Arete and presumably Azura died. Wanting vengeance without end, but unable to sate it on the Ice Tribes, Garon (falsely) believed that Hoshido (related to the concurrent outbreak of war between the two kingdoms originating in disagreements in trade policy in the divided Centralian lands) had worked with the Ice Tribes and decided to punish them by holding Kamui, who had coincidentally ended up in Garon’s possession, hostage. Doing this won Garon East Centralia for Nohr without having to do much fighting, but also Mikoto’s undying ire. On returning to Krakenburg with the Ice Tribe and Hoshido issues settled, Garon broke down. He cried without end, he considered suicide. His servants and officials tried to hide his madness and alleviate it. Garon partly unleashed his frustrations sexually, and though efforts were made to secure a constant supply of fresh women and virgins even, Garon could suddenly lash out for any woman at any time. Madness eventually gave way to clarity, and though he resumed his austere and rational image, no amount of cosmetics (he needed them- the madness took a physical toll) could hide the fact he was a changed man. Garon’s vigorous efforts to reform and govern Nohr demanded he always be active, but recurring bouts of prolonged madness and episodes of irrational thought processes interfered with his goals. In one bout of madness, he beat his wife to death in front of little Camilla. In another, he conceived Forrest on a poor maid. He refused to take a new wife, but woke from another bout of madness later to discover he had wedded another woman. He immediately compensated her (she miscarried by the way) and bade his servants to not listen to his orders when he was clearly mad, which they always found difficult to do because when mad he would threaten their lives. For Nohr to be governed, Garon increasingly relied on others, Xander eagerly became the mouthpiece of Garon, wanting to help his father. Iago also showed himself seemingly capable and loyal to Garon, and Iago’s fortunes rose in Nohrian politics from nothing to highest non-royal official, arguably second only to His Majesty. Prince Leo too sought to help his father, but was wary of Iago (with good reason as my Conquest shows). Iago hated Leo in returned tried to discredit him to His Majesty and even covertly kill the prince, but failed in every attempt. Thus, two factions (sort of three with Xander) at the Nohrian court arose, the Leonine, and the Iago faction. Their fortunes would be dependent on a combination of their talents at convincing Garon of their correctness, and Garon’s unpredictable will. Such was Garon’s rule- a promising start turned to into a tragedy that threatened to undo everything that Garon’s predecessors had worked towards, and he feared that was the case.

 

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Not force Nohr to be the bad guy. Make Garon and Gooron fight for the control of body. Delete azura from the main story. Just this things without change any other characters will be far better story. I don't really care if Birthright is Good vs Bad(it too need to be rewrote), but making Conquest ambiguous about Bad vs Good and Good vs Bad was horrible.

Making the story ad the Hoshid as serfcenter good guy and not as clearly good guy. Have the final chapter the inner fight between Garon and Gooron but killed by Takumi corrupted by his self-righteous than some bullshit curse. 

Conquest is the worst written of three but still the most interesting of three.

 

Edit: I now saw the result of poll so wtf?

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

people generally think Conquest had a low of potential as a story idea that was heavily undershot by what we got.

I see it was voted as best as concept..

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11 minutes ago, SpearOfLies said:

Not force Nohr to be the bad guy. Make Garon and Gooron fight for the control of body. Delete azura from the main story. Just this things without change any other characters will be far better story. I don't really care if Birthright is Good vs Bad(it too need to be rewrote), but making Conquest ambiguous about Bad vs Good and Good vs Bad was horrible.

Making the story ad the Hoshid as serfcenter good guy and not as clearly good guy. Have the final chapter the inner fight between Garon and Gooron but killed by Takumi corrupted by his self-righteous than some bullshit curse. 

Conquest is the worst written of three but still the most interesting of three.

 

Edit: I now saw the result of poll so wtf?

I see it was voted as best as concept..

I said low, I mant lot.

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11 minutes ago, SpearOfLies said:

Not force Nohr to be the bad guy. Make Garon and Gooron fight for the control of body. Delete azura from the main story. Just this things without change any other characters will be far better story. I don't really care if Birthright is Good vs Bad(it too need to be rewrote), but making Conquest ambiguous about Bad vs Good and Good vs Bad was horrible.

Making the story ad the Hoshid as serfcenter good guy and not as clearly good guy. Have the final chapter the inner fight between Garon and Gooron but killed by Takumi corrupted by his self-righteous than some bullshit curse. 

Conquest is the worst written of three but still the most interesting of three.

 

Edit: I now saw the result of poll so wtf?

I see it was voted as best as concept..

I said low, I mant lot.

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It's a pretty fanficcy idea, especially since it involves Valla, but it's something:

The game could've started by turning Garon directly antagonistic right from the get-go, having him try to kill Corrin before he can even return to the capital. They could've done Chapter 7's scenario without it being excused with "Garon's a lazy dick and wants to kill the protagonist indirectly because he's an idiot", maybe switched up the recruitment order so that stronger units like Leo or Xander/'s bodyguards come earlier, and Azura comes along with MU instead of just seeing them off at the end of Chapter 6 so that she can take part in that level instead of being contrivedly locked up in a fort on Nohr territory, though that level could stay as a reason for recruiting Rinkah and Kaze. (Though they should probably tone down her plot relevance beyond knowing about Valla and Garon being evil, and her singing power be limited to her in-game value) Then maybe they could end up fighting and defeating Garon at an early point in the story (say Chapter 11 or 12, 14 at the latest), causing him to flee to Valla and use them as his army several chapters later, after the protagonists have just finished fighting off the Hoshido siblings capitalizing on an internally weakened Nohrian army to invade Nohr. Heck, you could use the fact that the protagonists deposed Garon as a reason for non-bodyguard units to flock to MU's banner, maybe manage to get Scarlet on the team that way. Garon makes his resurgence lategame immediately after Hoshido is repulsed (with casualties - the siblings can live, but no bullshit magical sparing powers for the soldiers), with ghost troops laying waste to Hoshido and Nohr, so MU and the Nohr forces make nice with the Hoshido siblings, Nohr pursues Garon to Valla through the Canyon while Hoshido remains to hold the fort. Up in Valla, they could encounter Gunter with supercharged stats and actual growths fighting off zombie forces alongside the unrecruited MU maid (though I'd make the initial maid the same gender as the MU as it would avoid facilitating creepy fetishists. As would removing My Castle completely and replacing it with an FE9-style base, but then I just really hate anime fluff), and the rest of the game from there is beating zombie troops led Garon's bodyguards before the final boss is Garon in blob form before transforming into a dragon. Maybe change his motivation that Garon is something like Ganondorf - having him found an ultimate power in Valla (which is turned into something like the Golden Land from Link to the Past), going power-mad and evil, and Valla is turned into a land of evil while Garon turning into a blob and later a dragon for the finale is a result of his desire for more power and abuse of that power source mutating him. In the end, Garon is destroyed, Valla is restored, and the Nohrians return to *insert continent name here* to help with reparations while MU decides to stay in Valla and establish a kingdom there.

 

It's a rough sketch, but again, it's something

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21 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

First off, just to make it make sense why these supposedly good/moral people do Garon's bidding, my Garon would be a cynical, cold and somewhat violent guy who somehow became bitter and disillusioned with the world in the past, but he'd still have a soft spot for his children and regularly confer with them on his goals. Emphasize that the people of Nohr are suffering from starvation, and that they need Hoshido's goods if they're going to alleviate this. Even so, it's clear that the man has some sort of personal vendetta and inherent cruelty that wants to revel in Hoshido's suffering and destruction -- he seems a bit too excited at the prospect of slaying the Hoshidan royals.

This is the basics for how I'd write Garon (the biggest problem of Conquest).

The set-up would be that Hoshido and Nohr had trade agreements in the past (food in exchange for metals and gems) but as the food crisis worsens in Nohr, Hoshido refuses to give them any more. After exhausting all diplomatic options, Garon attempts to kidnap the royal Hoshidan line to ransom them back (they only succeed in taking Kamui). Mikoto wants her child back but is overruled by her advisors and Hoshido cuts trade off with Nohr completely. War is inevitable at this point which is where our story begins. While the war is about securing Nohr's future (to which the Nohrian siblings whole-hardheartedly support), to Garon it is much more personal and he wants to punish Hoshido for denying him.

The conquest would take up half the game (Kamui reluctantly agrees to it after being persuaded by Xander), ending with Ryoma falling in battle and the other siblings captured. Garon takes over Hoshido but is far crueler than necessary. Rebel elements harry Nohrian forces and Garon executes Takumi in response. Devastated by the loss of another brother and the increasing brutality of Garon, Kamui gather allies and tries to persuade his Nohrian siblings to revolt. Xander would be a late game recruit because he is the hardest to convince of Garon's tyranny.

In this version, Kamui would have memories of his life in Hoshido before being captured so he is more realistically conflicted on the war. Think Theon Greyjoy levels of personal conflict.

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I have some half-done notes on my personal take on Fate's story (and Conquest) that I'll put into the spoiler below. Originally, I was wanting to do a whole "personal overhaul" and writing my own script and chapter dialogue (because I am a video game storyteller, not a novelist), but my enthusiasm waved and other things took my attention.

Essentially, my retelling removes the Valla entirely and Garon is rewritten as a human being. However, there is one fatal flaw to this concept. I may have put too much naivety and "pure kindness" into Ikona (Sumeragi's Wife) in order to spark some tension, but here are my notes anyway.

 

Differences from Vanilla Fates
- Revelations and almost everything relating to Valla have been removed from the story. The main plot is about the conflict between Hoshido and Nohr, alongside the dynamic of Corrin and the siblings.
- Children characters have been cut or repurposed.
- Garon has been rewritten as a human being.
- Sumeragi’s character has been changed. Originally a benevolent ruler as his original description, something happens that brings out his warlike nature…

Timeline
- Katerina is Wife -> Xander
- Katerina Dies, Garon resumes being a ladies man
- Camilla is born.
- Leo is born.
- Azura is born.
- Elise is born.
- Arete is Wife
- Garon and Ikona have a brief affair.
- Sumeragi finds about about the affair. Arete dies to Sumeragi. Azura is taken away from Nohr.
- Garon descends into a pit of despair
- Garon and Sumeragi meet at Cheve. Ikona dies, Sumeragi dies, Corrin is taken by Garon.

Garon’s Story

Garon and Sumeragi were good rulers of both Hoshido and Nohr and initially respected each other, each king content ruling over their respective kingdoms. Garon was a womanizer and wooed many a young lass, but that all changed when he met Katerina who would become his first wife. He swore off his womanizer ways in hopes of living a long fulfilling life with his wonderful wife, and eventually Katerina bore Garon a son, Xander, Crown Prince of Nohr.

Garon loved Katerina with all of his heart and doted upon her and his son, but one day Katerina was stricken with a terminal illness. No matter what Garon did, calling upon the house maids for the best medicine or relying on Hoshidian healing, Katerina passed away. While he still managed to keep himself a good man, Garon never fully recovered from the loss.

Seeking an outlet, Garon resumed to his womanizer ways before his marriage to Katerina. Eventually, Camilla, Leo, and Elise were born by various mothers. It was not until Garon’s chance reunion with Arete that things would change.

Garon and Arete first met deep within a forest while Arete sang near a river stream. Captivated, Garon successfully woos Arete, but when everything was said and done, Garon believed it was all a dream. However, Garon’s affair with Arete did bear fruit in the form of Azura.

Years later, Garon rides into the deep forest trying to clear his mind of the daily stresses of being a ruler and hears a woman singing alongside a little girl. He rediscovers Arete, surprised to see that she is not a dream but in fact real. She is understanding as she can feel Garon’s pain, and eventually Arete becomes Garon’s second wife, her song healing his broken heart somewhat.

However, despite Arete becoming his wife and the power of her song, Garon still continued his womanizer ways as the void in his heart could never be refilled. Eventually, Garon went to Hoshido to plead for aid for his people due to a bad harvest. For the first time, Garon properly sees Ikona and her radiating kindness, becoming smitten with her.

Ikona, torn between loyalty to Sumeragi (and her four children) and her heart’s desire to comfort Garon due to all of his pain, falls for Garon and the two have an affair. Afterwards, Garon regrets wooing Ikona, but she says she doesn’t mind because of all of the suffering he has experienced. The two then return to their respective roles, but Garon being Garon, could never forget Ikona and brought her gifts when he had the chance.

Sumeragi eventually finds about the one night affair and becomes furious with Garon as the act deeply insulted his personal sense of pride and honor. He takes his most trusted soldiers alongside some mercenaries (Shura) and goes to Nohr where Garon welcomes him with open arms, but Sumeragi displays his intentions as he kills Arete in cold blood. Shura steals Azura, and the Hoshidians escape.

Garon falls to his knees mourning over the loss of Arete while his concubines (Camilla, Leo, and Elise’s mothers) rush to his side in an attempt to comfort him. He forcibly shakes them off and tells them to leave him alone, and they reluctantly do so. A young Xander and Camilla peek through the door and sees Arete’s dead body as well as a broken Garon while Leo shields Elise away from the horrific scene.

Garon calls Sumeragi out to Cheve to settle their differences. Sumeragi brings Corrin with him, intending on showing the child how diplomacy is handled between rulers. Ikona is also brought along, but due to the affair, she has been disgraced and replaced by Mikoto as Sumeragi’s wife. Both rulers bring a sizable regiment along just in case anything happens.

Both leaders decide to duke it out using an ancient rite. So, Garon and Sumeragi fight each other on the streets, evenly matched until Garon gets a surprise magic attack in. Garon goes for the final blow, but suddenly Ikona intervenes and takes the hit intended for Sumeragi (mirroring a similar event that happens during Birthright).

She simply wanted there to be peace and hoped with her death that there would be no further bloodshed. Garon breaks once more, having killed someone who he had loved, and Sumeragi, enraged by the fact Garon had an affair and killed his first wife, goes on the offensive. Before Sumeragi could swing, Nohrian archers fire their arrows, peppering Sumeragi and prompting a skirmish to take place in Cheve between Nohr and Hoshdian forces.

A soulless Garon steals Corrin away from Hoshido, claiming it repayment as they stole Azura away from him.

The skirmish ends without a decisive victor and both factions withdraw from Cheve. Mikoto becomes the ruler of Hoshido and advocates for peace, which Garon agrees to.

Years pass. Corrin is accepted into the Nohrian royal family, having forgotten his previous life in Hoshido. Corrin is still kept isolated at the Northern Fortress “for safety”, but is really just imprisoned within the fortress itself despite the kindness of his siblings.

Azura adapts to Hoshidian culture and is treated well, although many tend to keep their distance from her.

Garon has ceased his womanizing ways and keeps to himself. He focuses on kingdom affairs and the rising tide of dissent towards his rule due to excessive royal demands and poor treatment towards the citizens by some of the newer officers.

One day, Corrin becomes of age. Garon finally decides to unleash Corrin on the world, and so the story begins…

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2 hours ago, Sire said:

Garon loved Katerina with all of his heart and doted upon her and his son, but one day Katerina was stricken with a terminal illness. No matter what Garon did, calling upon the house maids for the best medicine or relying on Hoshidian healing, Katerina passed away. While he still managed to keep himself a good man, Garon never fully recovered from the loss.

Seeking an outlet, Garon resumed to his womanizer ways before his marriage to Katerina. Eventually, Camilla, Leo, and Elise were born by various mothers. It was not until Garon’s chance reunion with Arete that things would change.

Garon and Arete first met deep within a forest while Arete sang near a river stream. Captivated, Garon successfully woos Arete, but when everything was said and done, Garon believed it was all a dream. However, Garon’s affair with Arete did bear fruit in the form of Azura.

Interesting. I too integrated love into defining Garon's condition, though we go about it in quite different ways.

Also, like what you did with Sumeragi. In my case, he is one of my afterthoughts/weak points, mostly because he is stupid enough to keep little Corrin in an active war zone (my justification is that said territory was to be Corrin's inheritance).

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25 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Interesting. I too integrated love into defining Garon's condition, though we go about it in quite different ways.

Also, like what you did with Sumeragi. In my case, he is one of my afterthoughts/weak points, mostly because he is stupid enough to keep little Corrin in an active war zone (my justification is that said territory was to be Corrin's inheritance).

Thanks for the comments. I can't say it was entirely original as my main source of inspiration was a comic I found that "told the story of a young Garon." Here is the original post in the Fan Art thread.
* * * * *
While I was digging around my old stuff, I also found another set of Fate rewrite notes. This time it tries to stay as vanilla as possible instead of my overhaul, including elements like Valla and Slime!Garon. It is also slightly more developed than my overhaul version. The notes are in the spoiler.

 

Chapter Layout

Tutorial Levels
- Lesson 1: The Basics (Movement, Melee Attacks, Ranged Attacks, Staves, etc.)
- Lesson 2: Items & Trading
- Lesson 3: Advanced Combat (Weapon Triangle, Pair-Up, Double Attacks, etc.)
- Lesson 4: Environmental Effects (Terrain Bonuses, Ballista, Dragon’s Vein, etc.)

Note: The Tutorials are taught by Anna and are demonstrated by Anna and her many sisters (taking on different roles). Making the tutorial separate from the main game allows the story to be more “natural” instead of babying the player.
* * * * *
Prologue: Ties that Bind
- This chapter takes place on the Plains of Hoshido, the same place as the fated Chapter 6/7 Battle and the original Prologue.
- All player characters are present as Nohr and Hoshido fight against each other, with Corrin’s small band being caught in the crossfire. This will involve reworking some mechanics as it will be a three-way battle (Nohr vs Hoshido vs Corrin).
- Corrin must make his way to Azura, who beckons to him.
- As the battle rages, a forth faction (Vallites) appear on the map as NPCs, wrecking everything. Azura tells Corrin to hurry to her.
- The chapter ends when Corrin reaches Azura, with her telling him that everything will be okay as she is slowly consumed by the same “darkness” that the invisible soldiers have.

Chapter 1: A Rude Awakening
- Corrin is woken up by Felicia and Flora, alerting Corrin that the Northern Fortress is being invaded by mysterious “invisible” figures.
- Corrin, Felicia, Flora, and Jakob must make their way to the Escape Point. Gunter and Sophie will join the party mid-battle, and the Nohrian Siblings will arrive as NPCs to help Corrin escape. In the end, Camilla will give Corrin a ride, leaving behind his/her retainers temporally as they escape.

Chapter 2: Gift of Ganglari
- Corrin arrives in the Capital, safe and sound. Some time later, the rest of the crew appear but their reunion is cut short by Garon’s official summoning.
- Garon gives Corrin the gift of Ganglari, and informs Corrin that he has “caught” the perpetrators that attacked the Northern Fortress. Rinkah and Kaze are brought out.
- The chapter mostly proceeds as vanilla. Corrin has access to Gunter, Sophie, and his primary servant. The rest are recovering from the previous ordeal. Meanwhile, to accommodate a slightly larger party, there are also more enemies on the map.
- The ending remains the same, with Leo stepping in to “spare” Kaze and Rinkah. Corrin is then pushed to his first assignment.

Chapter 3: Border Patrol
- Corrin has the same party as the previous chapter, with Hans tagging along to mess things up.
- More or less, this chapter is the same as vanilla, save for the inclusion of Sophie.

Chapter 4: Hoshido
- The overall story and concept remains the same, but the gameplay is a little different.
- Sakura, Hinoka, a Samurai, an Archer, and a Lancer are found surrounded by a horde of Faceless in the northwest. They are in a makeshift encampment, and the generics are heavily wounded.
- Ryoma will still charge forward as an NPC, and Corrin will have Rinkah and Kaze as allies for this chapter. There are still Dragon’s Veins around to “move mountains”.
- The Generics will likely perish defending Sakura and Hinoka, and there is no real way to save them. Once they have fallen, Sakura will “Pair Up” with Hinoka. If either Sakura or Hinoka die, the result will be a Game Over.

Chapter 5: Mother
- Everything is practically identical to vanilla. Corrin recognizes the invaders as the same ones who attacked him at the Northern Fortress.

Chapter 6: The Path is Yours
- Mostly the same as vanilla, but Sophie joins up as well.

Chapter 6C: Embrace the Dark
- Mostly the same as vanilla, Corrin, primary servant, Sophie, and Royal Siblings must defeat the opposition. Kaze will appear as an enemy unit to accommodate for Sophie’s appearance.

Chapter 7C: A Dragon’s Decree
- Mostly the same as vanilla, but Corrin is allowed to bring his personal retainers (Primary & Sophie) with him. Elise, Silas, Arthur, and Effie still join as normal.

Chapter 8C: Cold Reception
- The same as vanilla, Corrin manages to successfully negotiate with the Ice Tribe without much violence. Flora stays behind and will join Corrin when he rebels against Garon during chapter 25.

Chapter 9C: Another Trial
- Same as vanilla, but Azura is found in her black dress instead of her white one. Save for this cosmetic difference, she remains the same in this route.

Chapter 10C: Unexpected Reunion
[Unfinished] 

C8: Cold Reception - C9: Another Trial - C10: Unexpected Reunion - C11: Rainbow Sage - C12: Bitter Intrigue –

Chapter 13: Uprising
- Scarlet can survive this chapter if Corrin clears it early, before Hans and company show up. If Scarlet survives, she will join Corrin on a revised Chapter 25, otherwise she will be caught trying to escape and “made an example of”.

C14: Voice of Paradise - C15: The Black Pillar - C16: Invasion - C17: Den of Betrayal - C18: Black & White - C19: Kitsune Lair - C20: Winds of Change - C21: Eternal Stairway - C22: Sakura - C23: Possessed - C24: Hinoka – C25: Ryoma - C26: Treason - C27: The Empty King - E: Night Breaks Through

* * * * *

Notes:
- This retelling tries to keep most of the Birthright and Conquest vanilla storyline intact, but tries to be more logical with its actions, as well as some creative liberties thrown in. Revelations has some shared points with the original, but will be rewritten.
- As for format, the retelling will take the form of an actual game. So, instead of normal fanfiction and words of text, the format will be more of a game script with music cues, backgrounds, and character actions.
- Deep Realms still exist, but are more used more as a justification for challenge maps instead of harboring children.
- The “S” Rank support now just means a paired ending, opening up more options. These paired endings can still end in marriage.
- Child characters have been changed or revised as the Children mechanic has been scrapped. 3 Children have been turned into NPCs while 2 have been cut completely. The two cut characters have OC replacements.

Main Characters - Changes

Playable

Corrin – Still remains the customizable Avatar character. His personality has been streamlined and remains constant in all three routes.
Azura – Azura practically stays the same as before, guiding Corrin.
Gunter – Now has supports in Revelations.
Kaze – He no longer had a death condition on Birthright, as he will always survive. As for Conquest, it is more difficult to recruit and keep Kaze, but otherwise no changes.
Silas – He is now more difficult to keep in Birthright, but otherwise no changes.
Laslow, Selena, and Odin – They have a slightly larger role in the overall plot, as per Hidden Truths. Otherwise, mostly the same.
Lilith – Now a playable character and has a slightly larger role in the overall plot.
Flora – Can be persuaded to survive in Birthright (instead of sacrificing Kaze). Has a support with Jakob.
Scarlet – Can be recruited in Conquest under specific conditions, no longer dies in Revelations. Has a support with Ryoma.
Yukimra – Joins the party normally on Birthright instead of using a My Castle gimmick. He now joins in Revelations at endgame.
True!Garon – The Rightful King of Nohr, he is locked up away in Valla. He is a broken man, having lost his wives, children, and kingdom to Anakos. He can be recruited under specific conditions in both Conquest and Revelations, requiring a paralogue to unlock.

Characters not listed here remain practically the same as their vanilla counterparts. However, they may have expanded (and revised) support options.

NPC

Slime!Garon – Still presents as himself as the King of Nohr.
True!Anakos – The true enemy of the entire game, his role is still fairly similar from before.
Heart!Anakos – The “human” part of Anakos. He helps from behind the scenes, but is never really seen in the main story.

* * * * *

Children Characters - Changes

Playable
Kana – A “true blood” sibling of Corrin, he/she is the youngest out of all of the family members. Hair color is shared with Corrin. Usually cheerful, but often feels lonely and cries.
Shigure – Lost brother of Azura. He too can sing with special powers, but he needs to use the Pendant that Azura has. Recruitable only in Revelations.
Sophie – A Cavalier in training under Gunter’s watch. She is distantly related to Silas. Follows Corrin on all routes, available from the start.
Midori – A war orphan saved by Kaze, she has skills with herbs and medicine. Kaze put her in a Deeprealm for her safety, and he must be present to recruit her when her paralogue opens. Should Kaze leave in Conquest, Midori will also leave if she is present.
Siegbert – An inexperienced ruler in a Deeprealm that resembles Nohr. He is found assaulting a rebellious fortress. Otherwise, mostly the same as his vanilla counterpart, even sharing some form of connection with Xander.
Forrest – A cousin of Siegbert, providing both counsel and support for his rule. Otherwise, mostly the same as his vanilla counterpart, sharing some form of connection with Leo.
Velouria – Keaton’s niece, and she is zealously devoted to him ever since her father died. Otherwise, the same as the vanilla.
Percy – He remains as Arthur’s son, but is now in the real world instead of being shipped off to the Deeprealms. Has a paralogue to unlock, requires Arthur to be present.

Ophelia & Soleil – The daughters of Odin and Laslow respectively. After Anakos took the Awakening trio to Fates, Naga (from Awakening) found it suitable that they would receive aid from their children from the future, much like how they helped their parents defeat Grima.
- Soleil may have some revisions to dialogue, but her overall character remains the same.
- Selena comments on why she doesn’t have a child to help her out, which the other two respond rather humorously. (If there is Awakening save data and Severa has an “S” support with either Inigo or Owain, the dialogue will change to reflect this.)
- As for hair color, the default is blonde for Ophelia and pink for Soleil. However, if there is Awakening save data, the hair color will change to reflect that of the “S” rank partner of Owain and Inigo respectively.
- The author knows this is “Fates BS”, but what is a FE game without some nonsense? andauthorbias

Nina – A young thief from the slums and thoroughly acquainted with Niles. She dislikes Niles for attempting to be a father-figure to her. Otherwise, the same as vanilla.
Shiro – A ruler of a Deep Realm that resembles Hoshido, he does not give off any sense of royalty. He is found defending a village from bandits, and has some connection to Ryoma.
Kiragi – A cousin to Shiro, he enjoys hunting and life in general. He has a connection to Takumi.
Selkie – A friend of Kaden’s. Otherwise unchanged from her vanilla self.
Mitama – A shrine maiden who enjoys poetry. Otherwise unchanged from her vanilla self.
Caledori – A freelance Sky Knight, she bears a resemblance to Awakening’s Cordelia and is rather competitive with Subaki. She is the same as her Fates variant.

Chiyo (OC: Diviner -> Basara) – A member of the Wind Tribe, she is quite a tall woman with a master of scrolls.
Isamu (OC: Oni Savage -> Blacksmith) – A wandering Oni in search for rare materials. He dreams of opening up his own weapon shop someday. Note: Not a ninja because there are already 3 ninjas, and we don’t have a male Oni Savage.

NPC
Dwyer – A Butler in training at the Northern Fortress. He is lazy and dislikes work, but does the best job out of all of the staff present, even senior staff, much to Jakob’s chagrin.
Ignatius – The son of Benny, he is a border guard much like his father.
Hisame – A brother of Hinata. Otherwise, he is like his vanilla self when he appears.

Cut Characters
Asugi & Rharjat – Awakening reincarnations. The only reason Caledori makes it in is that she has connections to Selena. andauthorbias

* * * * * * * * * *

Developer Notes (Spoilers Ahead!)

Azura
- Azura has become an unwilling pawn of Anakos. If the player follows the Conquest or Birthright path, she accomplishes her duty and fades away. The world is thereafter conquered and destroyed by True!Anakos, but the player is sent back to the “Branch of Fate” by Heart!Anakos in an attempt to break the cycle (Revelations).
- If the player does the Revelations route, Azura will eventually betray the party. Her “role” will be replaced by Shigure, her lost brother. When Azura is finally defeated, she will thank the party for freeing her before she dies.

Kaze
- On Birthright, Kaze will always survive. This moment has been changed over to Flora to persuade her to join the party instead of sacrificing herself.
- Conquest specifics are currently unknown. Kaze will switch sides, but may not remain in your party without certain conditions. (Perhaps if the player executes Shura, Kaze leaves?)

Silas
- To serve as a foil for Kaze being difficult to maintain, Silas will be more difficult to keep in Birthright than Conquest.
- Silas will be blackmailed and turn against Corrin (out of concern for his friend’s safety, “for the greater good”). However, having an A support with Silas will prevent this as Silas sees through the ruse.

Laslow, Selena, and Odin
- They are now more aware of their mission to find Corrin and bring peace to the world of Fates, referencing this in the main story.
- In Birthright, they lament that they could not persuade Corrin and that they were on opposing sides. In Conquest, Corrin does not listen to the trio, not believing what they have to say. In Revelations, they back up what Shigure has to say, further damning Azura’s plight.

Lilith
- Lilith still serves as a “True Blood” sibling to Corrin.
- She will still sacrifice herself on Birthright and Conquest, but this is (hopefully) done in a more meaningful manner. When she does fade away, she leave behind items called “Lilith’s Tears” which are gained per every level Lilith has. This item will grant a level to any unit that uses it, so essentially the player can transfer the EXP of Lilith to other characters to make up for her loss. Normal level up rules apply.

Flora
- She can be spared in Birthright if Corrin has an A rank with the “late servant” to the party. So, if the avatar is female, Corrin must have an A rank with Felicia, but if male, an A rank with Jakob. This will require grinding supports as there is only one main story chapter between their join time and Flora’s event.
- The character who has the A rank will successfully convince Flora to stand down and join the party.

Scarlet
- In Conquest, Scarlet can be spared if the player finishes her map quickly enough. She will sneak out alongside a few loyal soldiers, and will come back to help the player during the later chapters (which has a revised arc). If the player is too slow, Corrin will still attempt to free Scarlet, but she gets caught and is made an example out of by Hans and company.
- In Revelations, Scarlet no longer dies, but is knocked out of commission for a chapter (to mimic Elise and Takumi’s roles in Conquest and Birthright).

Yukimra
- In Birthright, he will successfully defend Hoshido and then launch a counteroffensive on Nohr. The player meets him after Chapter 24.
- In Revelations, he will hold the fort down as long as possible, but the Vallites overpower his forces. He will then make his way to Valla and join up with Corrin to finish the fight as quickly as possible.

Kana
- Kana is kept locked away in the Deep Realms by Lilith. When she sacrifices herself in Birthright or Conquest, she tells the Avatar about Kana, opening a paralogue to recruit Kana into the party.
- In Revelations, when Azura betrays the party, she will go after Kana. This will open up a special paralogue, if not completed before a certain chapter, disappears and has consequences. (Kana will fall under Azura’s influence and become an enemy unit. Kana will not be able to be recruited after this point.)

Shigure
- Shigure is stuck in Valla and has to handle his own.
- When Corrin goes to Valla during Conquest, Shigure meets him, but Azura commands Corrin to strike Shigure down. Corrin, being manipulated by Azura’s song, kills him in Conquest, preventing the truth from being known.
- However, in Revelations, Shigure meets Corrin alongside the rest of Corrin’s army. Azura is powerless in this situation and she is exposed by Shigure, and she is replaced by Shigure as a playable character.

True!Garon
- During Conquest, True!Garon’s paralogue opens at Chapter 27 after the main campaign has been completed (You must complete Conquest before True!Garon’s paralogue opens). In addition, Selena, Laslow, and Odin must be alive to attempt this chapter, if they are all dead, the chapter is inaccessible.
-- The Awakening Trio (or the survivors) are found in Valla as they discuss how to handle their mission. They find Garon stuck in his cell and in despair. The trio defend Garon and escape with him, and upon reaching the surface, the Nohr Royals are in disbelief seeing Garon again after he was defeated in Chapter 26. However, they quickly learn that this Garon is the real one, and there’s a happy reunion as Garon finds himself again and promptly kicks ***.
- During Revelations, the paralogue opens up after the main campaign is completed at Chapter 27. The player can choose their units for the paralogue, and it plays differently than the one with the trio. However, it has the same effect of True!Garon finding himself, reuniting with his kids, and then kicking *** as any endgame character does.

* * * * * * * * * *

Chapter Dev Notes

Conquest
- The Hoshidian Invasion arc has been rewritten. After the massacre at Fort Jinya, Corrin becomes disillusioned with Azura’s plan and makes his own path to rebel against Garon (and try to gain Hoshidian support). He tries to convince Takumi, but as he is possessed, he does not care. Corrin does manage to successfully convince Hinoka, and Chapter 25 is when Corrin rebels instead of fighting Ryoma. During this time, if Scarlet is still alive, will she come and join up with the party.
- Chapter 25 has Corrin fight Hans and Iago. Chapter 26 is when Corrin fights King!Garon.
- The battle is thought won, so the party goes to the Throne Room during Chapter 27 where they see Slime!Garon sitting on the throne. Filled with anger, Ryoma charges at Slime!Garon only to be effortlessly dispatched alongside his retainers. Ryoma dies due to this blow.
- The Endgame with Takumi remains mostly the same, but Takumi’s anger is amplified on seeing the corpse of Ryoma.

Revelations
- One of the Revelations chapters have Corrin face off with Ryoma, like in Conquest Chapter 25, due to that chapter being rewritten.
- Chapter 27 is when the player faces off against Azura. During this chapter, the game will read if you have any cleared Birthright and Conquest saves. Using data from the latest clear file from both paths, that Avatar will appear as an opponent in this chapter with the same stats, skills, and items in their inventory.
-- Of course, should the player try to cheat the system (having no skills or items, and low stats), the game will compensate by giving the player the appropriate equipment. (Endgame Yato, Dragonstone +, all default skills, scaled stats, etc.)
-- If there is no cleared data, a “default” Avatar will be used with the appropriate equipment.
-- When fighting Azura, “End of All – Below” plays. The entire party is debuffed due to her song, and Azura breaks the limits of her Songstress stat caps.
- As for Endgame, the party fights against Anakos properly. The music that is played is Shigure’s variant of “End of All”, as he now has the pendant and can properly weaken Anakos.

Edited by Sire
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  • 4 weeks later...

Something that I'd do is focus more on the opposing side of Hoshido and not have their representatives (the royals) be basically foils to the Nohrians.

For example, its pretty obvious that Xander belongs in the Camus archetype. Well, why not have more archetypes? Every time I look at the hoshidan royals I imagine and compare them to Macedon's royal family of Archanea and think that'd be an AWESOME idea. After all, the Lord, Camus, and Michalis archetypes together were the big 3 that stood in the way of the Gharnef's ultimate goal (at least, thats how it is for the originals. idk about its consistency throughout the series). I fthat same concept were put into Fates somehow, it'd have been my favorite game no lie

Ryoma would steadily devolve from his pinnacle Hoshidan benchmark status as a result of losing not only their father, but (step) mother to Nohr as well (from their perspective,anyway), ultimately putting everything on Ryoma for Hoshido's security. Being one who never gives up, he will begin to become ambitious and cold with a need to surpass Sumeragi, while deviating from his beliefs and reshaping the Hoshidan way into his image. And given that he's apparently "as strict as they come", as Ryoma himself puts it, it'd reflect on the way he runs Hoshido, doing whatever it takes for Hoshido's sake, as its first heir to the throne. Ultimately, his own strictness and strong resilience to give up will be his downfall when it all comes crashing down upon him at the doorstep, but now that I have the idea of Ryoma being a Michalis archetype, I can't unsee it now.. 'Course, it won't all be of his own volition, as he'll probably have some influence from, say, Yukimura. Actually, if what happened to Takumi happened to Ryoma instead (the possession), followed by him wrestling control of himself at the last minute to fulfill  his "final duty" as repentage? Would make for an epic ending.

Then there's Hinoka, who'd be Minerva in essence, but without the dragoon (fun fact, Minerva WAS a peg knight at first). AT the chapter that you face her (which is that, 24?), instead of running to hide, only to be caught, she could show up at the showdown against Ryoma and attempt to take him out herself, as an act of mercy

The only one that I'm actually not sure about is Takumi. I suppose(?) he could stay the same

Sakura... is about as Maria archtype as it gets, really. There isn't much I'd change about her, really. Tho most of al l of this hinges on the idea of Ryoma being Michalis and everything else falling into place. At this rate, I might as well make a fic of it

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4 hours ago, Motendra said:

Something that I'd do is focus more on the opposing side of Hoshido and not have their representatives (the royals) be basically foils to the Nohrians.

For example, its pretty obvious that Xander belongs in the Camus archetype. Well, why not have more archetypes? Every time I look at the hoshidan royals I imagine and compare them to Macedon's royal family of Archanea and think that'd be an AWESOME idea. After all, the Lord, Camus, and Michalis archetypes together were the big 3 that stood in the way of the Gharnef's ultimate goal (at least, thats how it is for the originals. idk about its consistency throughout the series). I fthat same concept were put into Fates somehow, it'd have been my favorite game no lie

Ryoma would steadily devolve from his pinnacle Hoshidan benchmark status as a result of losing not only their father, but (step) mother to Nohr as well (from their perspective,anyway), ultimately putting everything on Ryoma for Hoshido's security. Being one who never gives up, he will begin to become ambitious and cold with a need to surpass Sumeragi, while deviating from his beliefs and reshaping the Hoshidan way into his image. And given that he's apparently "as strict as they come", as Ryoma himself puts it, it'd reflect on the way he runs Hoshido, doing whatever it takes for Hoshido's sake, as its first heir to the throne. Ultimately, his own strictness and strong resilience to give up will be his downfall when it all comes crashing down upon him at the doorstep, but now that I have the idea of Ryoma being a Michalis archetype, I can't unsee it now.. 'Course, it won't all be of his own volition, as he'll probably have some influence from, say, Yukimura. Actually, if what happened to Takumi happened to Ryoma instead (the possession), followed by him wrestling control of himself at the last minute to fulfill  his "final duty" as repentage? Would make for an epic ending.

Then there's Hinoka, who'd be Minerva in essence, but without the dragoon (fun fact, Minerva WAS a peg knight at first). AT the chapter that you face her (which is that, 24?), instead of running to hide, only to be caught, she could show up at the showdown against Ryoma and attempt to take him out herself, as an act of mercy

The only one that I'm actually not sure about is Takumi. I suppose(?) he could stay the same

Sakura... is about as Maria archtype as it gets, really. There isn't much I'd change about her, really. Tho most of al l of this hinges on the idea of Ryoma being Michalis and everything else falling into place. At this rate, I might as well make a fic of it

Wow that's a great idea. It works on so many levels.

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A campaign where you play as the villain.

Conquest falls apart from trying to make a Lord fighting under the banner of such a ridiculously evul kingdom into a heroic character in the style of Marth. The Slimeman, the Chair, the Crystal Ball, Iago, the Corrin worship, all go back to how they wouldn't go all the way with Conquest being Villain Campaign.

A Villainous Conquest fixes so many issues. No more Azura following around Corrin to serve cheap exposition. No more invasion of Hoshido that's framed as totally needed to expose Slimeman. 

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Just...let Azura & Corrin tell literally ANYONE ELSE. It is MADDENING how they keep everyone out of the loop including Gunter. Gunter! The person who was stuck in Valla, saw Hans try to kill them, was thrown off a bridge by said attempted killer. And he's respected and could be a critical person of interest in convincing the others. Yeah there's some stuff in Revelation that might make that an issue but it's not like they knew that at the time and its probably that Gunter wasnt possessed in the Conquest timeline anyway.

Playing Birthright makes this contrivance even worse. Something I really, truly appreciated was that Corrin tried to talk to each of his siblings about how Garon is in the wrong and needs to be stopped for the betterment of both kingdoms. He almost gets through to Camilla the first time, even, until Leo steps in. And the second time, with Elise on your side she's all ready to go until gameplay contrivances she collapses. Leo has an entire arc about the guilt he feels and while he still doesn't go against garon because of gameplay contrivances it shows he'd probably be really easy to convince even without the orb. A combination of Elise & Gunter, for example. And Elise is totally on your side from the start, she sees how messed up this all is and hates it and the only reason she doesn't join the team is well i repeat myself.

You could even keep the terrible awful no good poorly justified "lets invade Hoshido to put garon on a magic chair" thing by putting it on Xander or something.Like maybe the siblings just can't get through to him up until that point an as such are finding it hard to really go against Garon and survive? Something like that, I'm spitballing here. Have the invasion and the way the people are treated finally break his JUSTICEISANILLUSION awfulness and turn the rest of the campaign into fighting Garon while in Hoshido. You can still have hoshidian fights if you really want; have them be leery about trusting your group for pretty justified reasons so they launch attacks on you until you confront the hoshido siblings or something.

There's this one line that drives me nuts towards the end. Azura says that half the army supports Xander rather than Garon. But nothing comes of it. It exists solely to justify that Nohr will follow Xander so he can be king in the ending, basically. And it is literally one line. It's the only time this is mentioned even though its PRETTY IMPORTANT. And like I mentioned above there's so much you could do with that! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

The plot would still be stupid for assorted reasons (ORB. CHAIR. SLIME DAD. CURSE. EVERYONE JUST BEING FINE WITH THE OPERA HOUSE MASSACRE), but at least it would be palatable. To me, anyway.

Also revelation makes the "can't tell anyone" thing even more hilarious considering how Camilla joins almost instantly and hearing Garon go "mwahahaha i'll destroy nohr too" is all that's needed to get Leo & somehow Xander to go "oh."

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4 hours ago, r_n said:

Just...let Azura & Corrin tell literally ANYONE ELSE. It is MADDENING how they keep everyone out of the loop including Gunter. Gunter! The person who was stuck in Valla, saw Hans try to kill them, was thrown off a bridge by said attempted killer. And he's respected and could be a critical person of interest in convincing the others. Yeah there's some stuff in Revelation that might make that an issue but it's not like they knew that at the time and its probably that Gunter wasnt possessed in the Conquest timeline anyway.

Playing Birthright makes this contrivance even worse. Something I really, truly appreciated was that Corrin tried to talk to each of his siblings about how Garon is in the wrong and needs to be stopped for the betterment of both kingdoms. He almost gets through to Camilla the first time, even, until Leo steps in. And the second time, with Elise on your side she's all ready to go until gameplay contrivances she collapses. Leo has an entire arc about the guilt he feels and while he still doesn't go against garon because of gameplay contrivances it shows he'd probably be really easy to convince even without the orb. A combination of Elise & Gunter, for example. And Elise is totally on your side from the start, she sees how messed up this all is and hates it and the only reason she doesn't join the team is well i repeat myself.

You could even keep the terrible awful no good poorly justified "lets invade Hoshido to put garon on a magic chair" thing by putting it on Xander or something.Like maybe the siblings just can't get through to him up until that point an as such are finding it hard to really go against Garon and survive? Something like that, I'm spitballing here. Have the invasion and the way the people are treated finally break his JUSTICEISANILLUSION awfulness and turn the rest of the campaign into fighting Garon while in Hoshido. You can still have hoshidian fights if you really want; have them be leery about trusting your group for pretty justified reasons so they launch attacks on you until you confront the hoshido siblings or something.

There's this one line that drives me nuts towards the end. Azura says that half the army supports Xander rather than Garon. But nothing comes of it. It exists solely to justify that Nohr will follow Xander so he can be king in the ending, basically. And it is literally one line. It's the only time this is mentioned even though its PRETTY IMPORTANT. And like I mentioned above there's so much you could do with that! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

The plot would still be stupid for assorted reasons (ORB. CHAIR. SLIME DAD. CURSE. EVERYONE JUST BEING FINE WITH THE OPERA HOUSE MASSACRE), but at least it would be palatable. To me, anyway.

Also revelation makes the "can't tell anyone" thing even more hilarious considering how Camilla joins almost instantly and hearing Garon go "mwahahaha i'll destroy nohr too" is all that's needed to get Leo & somehow Xander to go "oh."

Best line of reasoning I can come up with everyone's ease of defection in Revelations is that it occurs later in the timeline so people have had more time to consider things. The basis of that reasoning being that the eclipse is never mentioned in the other two routes (and Corrin travelling around having to evade both armies would slow progress quite a bit).

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To make Revelation work from a gameplay perspective where there isn't easy defection, we'd need to do one or a combination of two things, neither that easy:

Have Corrin only recruit freelancer characters (Nyx, Rinkah, Shura) and personal characters (Felikob, Silas, Kaze) until the defection of Nohr and Hoshido occurs. The problem is that we don't get many freelancer characters thanks to Fates's love of retainers (which in itself wasn't a bad idea). De-childing the children characters might help too.

Or, we invent a new kingdom/reinvent a currently existing one with new PCs. It's obvious this would require a lot of work.

Easy little sister defection we could probably keep too without hurting the storyline too much.

 

In my work in progress of a Fates Revelation rewrite (I posted my CQ one on the Written Works forum) I just did Freelancers + Corrin Personals + Former Children. At the turning point in the story when the real villain rears its head, the retainers join, and its only for the last quarter that the royals themselves are actually playable.

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