Support conversations topic

[Luchi]

Only BastianxLucia ( and all of Lucia's supports; her one with Ilyana makes me think she's Bi xD ) really stuck out for me in FE9. Hell, anything that comes out of Bastian's mouth is gold. You have to admire whoever wrote his lines since virtually every single on of his lines is spoken in iambic pentameter. Which is, needless to say, pretty difficult to pull off.

[Harvey]

I love these supports!

 

[JJ48]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:38 PM, saisymbolic said:

I can't speak for FE6 as I've never played it. And, of the supports that I did in FE7, I only remember truly enjoying Lyn/Rath and Hector/Eliwood. As for FE9, I remember enjoying Marcia/Kieran, Ike/Reyson, Jill/Lethe, Ilyana/Gatrie and Ilyana/Zihark. The latter was only because I enjoyed the alternate dialogue they shared in RD.

In Awakening, I enjoyed a majority of the supports. Because of that, I'm going to mention a couple that I did not enjoy: Chrom/F!Robin and Severa/Cordelia.

For Chrom/F!Robin, all I have to say is that it is one of the supports that should have been copy - paste. The M!Robin support with Chrom was so good for a three part conversation, and it truly reflected how close their relationship was when compared to how they act in the main narrative. Instead, we get some generic anime bathroom scene with Chrom walking in on F!Robin, and her reacting in typical anime girl fashion. It was a letdown of a support, and I was extra salty after reading M!Robin's after having read F!Robin's.

As for the latter, what really irks me about Severa/Cordelia is the way Cordelia is so (either purposefully or genuinely) oblivious to the things Severa says. The B support, in particular, annoys me terribly.

  Reveal hidden contents

Cordelia:
Here you are, then. My dessert is yours once again.

Severa:
...Thanks. So, what do you want to know today?

Cordelia:
Hmm, I know there was something I wanted to ask you... Ah, that's it. Why didn't you choose to be a pegasus knight?

Severa:
Ugh, because I'd sooner drink boiling tar than follow in your footsteps...

Cordelia:
...That's just a bit harsh, isn't it?

Severa:
If you want harsh, try living in the shadow of someone who's perfect at everything. Trust me, it's a NIGHTMARE. Everyone loves you and respects you and thinks you're pretty and smart and strong. I'm just a big pile of dog food...

Cordelia:
Ah ha ha, that's quite a list of compliments! I'm flattered, Severa.

Severa:
Hey, I'm just repeating what everybody ELSE says. I never said any of that!

Cordelia:
Oh? ...Then what DO you think of me? What sort of mother was I?

Severa:
Perfect, of cour— Er... *AHEM* I mean, you were a coldhearted, selfish brute who abandoned your only daughter!

Cordelia:
Severa, I...I'm so sorry. *sniff*

Severa:
H-hey... No fair crying... I didn't mean it. Of course I didn't mean it... You were kind and pretty and strong and perfect... All right?! Are you happy now...?

Cordelia:
Ah... I'm sorry, dear, but yes. I am. It warms my heart to hear you say that.

Severa:
Whatever. We're done here!

Cordelia:
...My, she is quick when she wants to be. Quicker than me, that's for certain. But she doesn't need to know I became a pegasus knight because I'm a lousy runner...

It confuses me that Cordelia focuses on the "compliments," completely ignoring that Severa has referred to herself as "dog food." As a parent, one would think that Cordelia's first instinct would be to admonish her daughter for putting herself down before reassuring her that she is indeed more than that. Next, she begins to cry when Severa calls her some mean things  - which is understandable - to keep up her prickly facade but, she is not interested in finding out the reason her daughter would say such things in the first place. She is not bothered that her daughter would rather lie about how she feels about her; she completely ignores the frustration that Severa not-so-subtly hides in front of everyone else. I find it completely improbable that she does not sense that, while Severa loves her, she also feels another distinct feeling towards her.

Like, I could be misinterpreting that support line, but I would still have some negative feelings on it even if I weren't.

I'm just impressed that the parent units in Awakening are able to so easily transition into parent mode when talking to their children.  From the future.  Which, if you succeed, will become an alternate future.  I mean, apart from Lucina, how many of the children units are born, or even necessarily conceived, at the time you recruit them?  (What, after gaining S-Rank, does the army wait around for nine months before running the corresponding paralogue chapter?  Or does the 'S' stand for "Shotgun Wedding"?)

Maybe Cordelia is just reacting the way she would to a friend just a couple years younger than herself (you know, how one might reasonably expect someone in Cordelia's situation to react) rather than reacting as a mother would to her child.  Though, the fact that everyone else in the army takes to parenting like a duck to water (apparently being a parent is the easiest thing in the world), and Cordelia's the "perfect one" in the army, I confess that this explanation is less than satisfying.

[saisymbolic]

16 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I'm just impressed that the parent units in Awakening are able to so easily transition into parent mode when talking to their children.  From the future.  Which, if you succeed, will become an alternate future.  I mean, apart from Lucina, how many of the children units are born, or even necessarily conceived, at the time you recruit them?  (What, after gaining S-Rank, does the army wait around for nine months before running the corresponding paralogue chapter?  Or does the 'S' stand for "Shotgun Wedding"?)

Maybe Cordelia is just reacting the way she would to a friend just a couple years younger than herself (you know, how one might reasonably expect someone in Cordelia's situation to react) rather than reacting as a mother would to her child.  Though, the fact that everyone else in the army takes to parenting like a duck to water (apparently being a parent is the easiest thing in the world), and Cordelia's the "perfect one" in the army, I confess that this explanation is less than satisfying.

But, still, even if she were treating Severa like a younger friend, wouldn't Severa's behavior still strike a person as odd? I will admit that it may not to some, but, like I said, Severa isn't particularly quiet about the inferiority she feels in supports that bring it. All it takes is a little probing to get to the crux of the issue with Severa most of the time. Cordelia is just completely oblivious to that, and I can't help but wonder how Future!Cordelia acted - moreso out of curiosity than out of any malice. It's mainly the reason I like Stahl as Severa's father so much (and because of their Future Past conversation); Stahl was the kind, calm and patient parent she needed when dealing with the expectations Cordelia unknowingly forced onto her shoulders.

That said, I like Cordelia. It's just that one support that just kind of irks me, and I can readily admit that I'm projecting a little onto the support. So that could be a reason.

[Thane]

I should be a little more positive, so I'll start with a few of my favorites and then bring up one of my least favorite ones.

Duessel and Knoll - This is such an important support which might as well have been part of the main story itself, but instead it becomes a heavy conversation between two non main characters, and I must say I rather enjoy that. 

Ike and Reyson - This support would've been good enough with only their comment about it feeling good to punch Oliver in the face, but I'm a sucker for Reyson and just really like his schtick, being an atypical Heron who's just as beautiful but his appearance hides an iron will thanks mainly to Tibarn.

Brady and Noire - One of Awakening's sweetest support and one of the most organic. I love how they find support over both being physically weak and trying to improve while talking about the past. Maybe I just have a thing for physically weak characters since I like Reyson so much too.

Gaius and Maribelle - The support that made me realize how much I like people having a shared past, especially if it's not immediately apparent. It's a cool exchange between two very different people whose paths crossed indirectly, and I love it. 

Chrom and Lucina - A frequently overlooked support, I feel like, and it might seriously be both of their best one. Lucina pretends to be worse at fencing than she really is because it's the only way she knows how to spend time with her father, so they bond over practice until Chrom asks what'll happen when the war's over. She says she'll leave since she doesn't truly belong in that timeline, ready to sacrifice her happiness, but Chrom is having none of it and has a real heart-to-heart with her, which I find very touching.

Virion and Everyone - Mild exaggeration, but the guy's a treat.

Caeldori and Shinonome - I feel like I'm talking about this support non-stop, but it really is that good. It's nice with such a genuine support that teaches you everything you need to know about two characters in a very natural way. It's probably the most natural romantic support in the series as well.

Hinoka and Saizou - An absolute joke on every level! It fails at worldbuilding, character development and does not only Hinoka and Saizou a complete disservice, but they even manage to rope Ryouma into this as well. 

[Extrasolar]

More great supports that I forgot to add in my earlier post.

Odin/Ophelia. Ophelia is a very sweet girl in general, and her quiet but intense enthusiasm in emulating and admiring her father is adorable. She confesses that she feels less cool than him since he's the chosen one, but in a sweet half-serious and half-dramatic moment, Odin declares that they'll be two dark and edgy chosen ones, while ambiguously bringing up his own mother's feelings of inadequacy about how she lacked the brand that Chrom and Emmeryn have, assuring Ophelia that she's just as cool as he is. It's just too cute!

Subaki/Hana. I'll admit, it was refreshing as hell seeing someone finally calling Subaki on his "I'm perfect, and there's nothing you can say otherwise" BS, and it is nice seeing a few cracks in Subaki's "perfection." Not to mention, I find their relationship hilarious, just due to how done Hana is with all of Subaki's nonsense. You fell off your Pegasus, Subaki, get over yourself for once! (Kidding mostly, I do like Subaki, but the guy can get frustratingly petty about his perfection.)  I do ship them, but that's beside the point

Hinata/Hisame. Hinata comes off a lot of the time as an overly excitable and loud, not too bright guy, but he really is sweet and well-meaning, and that's shown a lot in the support with his son. Though Hisame has little patience for Hinata's excitement and seems embarrassed by his father, when Hinata tells him that he names his blade after HIsame so that, even if they are physically apart, he can feel like Hisame is close to him, it was just too sweet, and Hisame softening appropriately was great to see.

Silas/Avatar. Silas is already one of my favorite characters in Fates, but the reveal that the guy risked his own neck and position to sneak the Avatar outside, just so they could experience the outside world for once, is what catapulted it into one of my favorite supports. The friendship and self-sacrifice is real.

How could I forget Kiragi/Takumi? Back in my Birthright playthrough, that was one that really made me smile. Kiragi's already the sweetest, most adorable kid in existence, and when he's interacting with the edgelord Takumi, he manages to do the impossible and get Takumi to stop beating himself up for once. He's not even mad that his dad lied to him out of anxiety and envy that he'd surpass him in archery skill, but gets him to realize that, hey, Takumi, you're kind of alright too, so stop moping around all the time.

2 hours ago, Thane said:

Hinoka and Saizou - An absolute joke on every level! It fails at worldbuilding, character development and does not only Hinoka and Saizou a complete disservice, but they even manage to rope Ryouma into this as well. 

I've never read this one! Mind enlightening me on it?

Seems like this is similar to how I feel about Xander/Peri. Not only does it completely derail Xander's character even more than main-story Conquest (How the hell is this morally upright and strict knight allowing a straight-up murderer of innocents into his employ, not to mention saying he finds that aspect of her charming and that she makes good queen material?! What?!)

Edited March 13, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Thane]

7 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

I've never read this one! Mind enlightening me on it?

Seems like this is similar to how I feel about Xander/Peri. Not only does it completely derail Xander's character even more than main-story Conquest (How the hell is this morally upright and strict knight allowing a straight-up murderer of innocents into his employ, not to mention saying he finds that aspect of her charming and that she makes good queen material?! What?!)

I've tried doing it in the past but I honestly don't think I can do it justice. If there's any argument to be made against the current support system where everyone can support everyone, this is it. If you don't have any time, I can describe it to you, but if you have eight minutes to spare, just give it a read, you most certainly will won't regret it:

Spoiler

 

[Extrasolar]

15 minutes ago, Thane said:

I've tried doing it in the past but I honestly don't think I can do it justice. If there's any argument to be made against the current support system where everyone can support everyone, this is it. If you don't have any time, I can describe it to you, but if you have eight minutes to spare, just give it a read, you most certainly will won't regret it:

  Hide contents

 

My brain hurts... So first it's "we have to take accusations like this seriously, no matter what" which is why they put him through the letter thing...but then she says "we were completely convinced of your innocence all along"...but they put him through this letter thing anyway. "And then it's, "sorry, we shouldn't have bothered with this dumb letter thing in the first place" and then it's "no actually, you made the right decision"... Like, pick an attitude and stick with it, please!

I see what you mean...

[Thane]

Just now, Extrasolar said:

My brain hurts... So first it's "we have to take accusations like this seriously, no matter what" which is why they put him through the letter thing...but then she says "we were completely convinced of your innocence all along"...but they put him through this letter thing anyway. "And then it's, "sorry, we shouldn't have bothered with this dumb letter thing in the first place" and then it's "no actually, you made the right decision"... Like, pick an attitude and stick with it, please!

I see what you mean...

Also they've got no proof and no reason for the accusation is stated, it's just a thing. Also, it's Saizou; the guy is comedically loyal!

[Extrasolar]

7 minutes ago, Thane said:

Also they've got no proof and no reason for the accusation is stated, it's just a thing. Also, it's Saizou; the guy is comedically loyal!

True! I mean, he mentions "Lord Ryoma" at least every other sentence...and I think the worst part is that they're gonna trust the word of some random Hoshidan noble (whom they presumably have no familial or familiar connection to at all, considering we don't even get their name or station) over the slavishly loyal ninja who's been in their employ for years? Like, Saizo would have blown himself and everyone else in the room up should he be faced with nothing but the choice of betraying Ryoma. He's willing to straight-up kill his own brother with no hesitation on the Conquest path for betraying his homeland, for crying out loud!

Plus, if these mysterious noble councils don't like or trust Saizo and there's a movement trying to overthrow the royal family, I think that's a symptom of a bigger problem that needs addressing...and one we never got to develop in the game itself. Seriously, how cool would some political intrigue in Hoshido been?! Would have shown that the place isn't as perfect as it seems to be at first glance!

Head, meet wall. Repeatedly.

[Thane]

8 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

True! I mean, he mentions "Lord Ryoma" at least every other sentence...and I think the worst part is that they're gonna trust the word of some random Hoshidan noble (whom they presumably have no familial or familiar connection to at all, considering we don't even get their name or station) over the slavishly loyal ninja who's been in their employ for years? Like, Saizo would have blown himself and everyone else in the room up should he be faced with nothing but the choice of betraying Ryoma. He's willing to straight-up kill his own brother with no hesitation on the Conquest path for betraying his homeland, for crying out loud!

Plus, if these mysterious noble councils don't like or trust Saizo and there's a movement trying to overthrow the royal family, I think that's a symptom of a bigger problem that needs addressing...and one we never got to develop in the game itself. Seriously, how cool would some political intrigue in Hoshido been?! Would have shown that the place isn't as perfect as it seems to be at first glance!

Head, meet wall. Repeatedly.

And then Hinoka and Saizou fell in love. Somehow. 

The end.

[saisymbolic]

Oh yeah. Some of my favorite supports from Fates:

Mozu/Everyone: Seriously. I can say that none of her supports are bad. This may be due to the fact that she doesn't have a specific gimmick or trope she portrays—her losing her home could count, though. While I would understand it being mentioned frequently (as it would be devastating watching as one's home is destroyed), much of Mozu's conversations focus more on the things she excels at (cooking meals; hunting; farming; haggling), her insecurity about her usefulness within the camp and her attempts in growing stronger to find her place. In particular, I enjoyed her supports with Saizou (in which he is surprisingly helpful and friendly), Xander (in which he becomes a part of her village), Laslow (in which he is called "cool" by one of few women) and Ryoma (in which we learn he gives zero skcuf about social status).

Hinoka/Hinata: One of Hinoka's better supports, in my opinion. We learn that she's a bit of a workaholic, more than willing to overwork herself to exhaustion; we also learn that she, while quite stubborn, prefers not to rely on others and take care of herself. Though he mainly pesters her in an attempt to lighten her load, Hinata doesn't say much during this support, but he does serve in getting Hinoka to relieve some of the burdens she has. I thought the S support flowed nicely, though there is an abrupt mention of "falling in love." At least, they don't jump straight into marriage and mention only being together as a couple. ignore that hisame is born directly after the support

Azura/Arthur: An incredibly sweet support that I really truly love. Mainly because I think it's one of few where the S rank doesn't come out of thin air. There is a few lines that give hint to Azura's terrible childhood in Nohr, and we see that Arthur has been a justice seeker since his youth. Azura isn't as standoffish here in this support as she is in others, which is interesting, because one would think she would close herself from someone as eccentric as Arthur. Also, Arthur proposes through song, and my heart just explodes in cute little puppy dogs at the mental image. The parent-child supports, while generic, work well with these two also; I can totally see Arthur trying to organize a art viewing for Shigure, and I can see Percy wanting to grow up in order to protect the delicate (but oddly capable fighter) Azura. 

[Harvey]

Ok guys a quick question...who do you think has better support dialogues? Karel or Harken?

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

Ok guys a quick question...who do you think has better support dialogues? Karel or Harken?

 

From a quick read of their supports, I'd say Karel. I like Harken more as a character with his whole "I joined the Black Fang just for the sake of revenge" thing, plus his awesomeness in gameplay. However, Harken's supports, outside of his Vaida one, are less entertaining than Karel's. Karel has a blah Geitz support, but the Guy is decent, the Dart funny, the Karla touching, and the Lucius a good allusion to what Karel has become by FE6.

Also, on the topic of Hinata. I'm sorry, but I can't help but describe some of my fanfiction on him. I'll spare you the eyesore of looking at it and throw it in spoilers.

Spoiler

Hinata is supposed to be Takumi's second retainer right? Well, I rewrote it so that Takumi was raised in his infancy up to like age 5 almost exclusively by women, as most Hoshidan royal children are (this is derived from what I read of Emperor Meiji's early childhood in a 700 page biography of his life). Due to this female influence, Takumi was rather shy in early childhood. At age 5, according to tradition, Takumi was given his first playmate, who was Hinata. Hinata, about the same age as Takumi, was selected due to being from a good family, plus he was energetic and could thus help instill into Takumi the bold and tough masculine nature his female upbringing had denied him. Takumi initially remained shy, but slowly warmed up to Hinata's adventurousness. Little Hinata however went too far on one occasion and tricked Takumi into leaning over a koi pond and then shoved him in. Takumi bawled and the old male guardian assigned to look after the prince and his playmate harshly scolded Hinata. Hinata realized he had gone too far and immediately tried to make up for it. Offering his hand to Takumi to pull him out of the pond, Takumi then purposefully dragged in Hinata. Continuing to apologize, Takumi forgave Hinata on the promise he'd never do that again. Hinata agreed and Takumi then proceeded to put a koi fish in Hinata's clothes. Hinata reacted funnily and soon did the same to Takumi, before the two of them got caught up in a splashing war which also got wet the male guardian who tried to get them to stop with this kind of stuff. The two made up and became truly close friends, with Takumi now having broken out of his shell completely.

As Takumi's dear friend, Hinata spent much time with the prince, keeping him happy and entertained. Hinata did and does leave Takumi's side (particularly when Takumi's other close friend, the peasant Kiragi, is visiting) on occasion to go back home and see his little bro Hisame. Hisame loves his big brother, but is quite different from him. Hisame aims to develop the talents necessary to become the next head of the noble family he and his brother are a part of. Hisame does this partly because he wants Hinata, who he knows doesn't have the talent for such, to remain free and with Takumi if he seeks it. Hisame is a little jealous of Hinata spending so much time with Takumi, and admittedly desires to be the head of the family partly out of his wanting to show up Hinata.

Hinata chose to become an official retainer of Takumi largely out of his personal bond to the prince. Part of this is owing to Takumi being fun to hang with, but also out of a desire to keep watch over Takumi. Takumi, noted for having nightmares in the actual game, has infrequent nocturnal seizures (one every four weeks to four months). Hinata saw some of the earliest ones happen when sleeping over in Takumi's room as a kid. Hinata wants to be there to calm Takumi down and tell him everything is okay. Thus, he frequently shares a room with the prince, sleeping lightly just in case. Takumi wishes he didn't need anyone watching him, but prefers Hinata to a female or anyone else doing so (Kiragi and Ryoma are also okay).

I also have a little fanfiction stuff on noble/daimyo intrigue in Hoshido. But I'll spare you that completely.

[Harvey]

I don't get Geese at all....

In all of his supports, he keeps saying pretty much the same thing being poor and looking for money. Not one single support of his is different at all. 

I get that seeing as how he never mentioned his brother Geitz due to FE6 coming out first and FE7 coming out later, that never happens but then why did Geitz even mentioned that he had a brother in the first place?

I am if you haven't figured out like Geese simply because of his character design....I mean, how can you NOT praise such looks?!?!?

[Lord Tullus]

I think Gaius's supports from awakening are not too bad.  Also henry, Gregor, and possibly maribelle?  

My personal favorite supports come from sacred stones, with Binding blade coming in second, then FE 7, and FE 9, because I haven't touched that game.

My favorite support of all time has to be either Garret and Lalum's support, or Forde and Eirika.  There are tons of others that I love, but some just seem really special to me.  (I like Marisa's supports with Gerrik and Tethys especially.)

Edited March 28, 2017 by Lord Tullus

[Thane]

21 minutes ago, Lord Tullus said:

I think Gaius's supports from awakening are not too bad.  Also henry, Gregor, and possibly maribelle?  

Incidentally, they have one of Awakening's best supports together.

I rather like Gaius. He's not on the top of my favorite list in the series or anything but he's most certainly not one-dimensional, nor does he only talk about sweets all the time. I find him charming. Maribelle, on the other hand, is hilarious.