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3 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

The news that there's no avatar is kind of a relief.  Part of me was a little curious to see how it'd be handled if it ended up being a feature, but I also recognize that the avatar in New Mystery basically shat on Marth's legacy by taking the spotlight too often.  I ultimately want Alm and Celica to get their due tribute and with no avatar to get in the way of that, it only becomes more likely.

Also, I thought we sort of already confirmed there was no pair-up?  Or was that just conjecture?  I've followed the news of this game well enough, but I forget some things.

And though we've seen them a few times already, I just want to say that those monsters look pretty spoopy.

So that means the Deliverance Hideout is what was once called "Rebellion HQ"?  Definitely fits the informal nature of the location better.  A den filled with undead monsters is the last thing I'd think of when I hear the word "headquarters".

Where was the news about no avatar? As far as I know nothing has really been said yet outside of the comment about an avatar not being the main character, which doesn't really mean much. Robin/Kris weren't advertised as such for their games.

Edited by Tolvir
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I hope there are some new stuffs, bareboned Fire Emblem reminded me back some not so good memory (Shadow Dragon). While I love Fire Emblem, the series has been very stagnant for awhile now. Gameplay matter more even if I found the story to be interesting. 

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Hey, so while it's probable we'll get elaboration on a lot of things when the full website opens/next news wave, I thought it'd be fun to do an analysis for a couple of the screenshots we got, because there's some interesting stuff there that could indicate an increased depth that some folk may or may not've noticed yet. Under spoiler tag because of length, not any plot spoilers, so:

Spoiler

In particular, it's this one that may be a treasure trove of information:

RbkeEk8.png

Most of it concerns the status screen, so we zoom in a bit, and...

VbyaxRO.png

The first cosmetic thing I'll briefly note is the lack of character portrait like the other screenshots seen in the Famitsu scans, though that could be as simple as it being an option that can be toggled on and off, or it's because the cursor isn't fully on Tobin's sprite in that first screenshot there - as in, the portrait just doesn't load in until you sit on it for a moment. Either or, the full view of that emblem there is a nice bit of art, and, funnily enough, is actually different than the one we see in the Famitsu scan: 

4ie5c2F.jpg

Again, just a cosmetic thing, but the emblems, it seems, aren't based on what kingdom the unit is apart of, but the character's class. You'll notice that the second emblem here has a different shield and some horse legs, as befitting Tobin being a cavalier here. And since the other emblem doesn't have a bow and arrow, it's more likely that the first emblem indicates an infantry unit, and this second one a mounted unit. Throw in one for flying units and maybe another for mage units or armoured units, and yeah, just a cosmetic thing, but neat detail nonetheless.

That Famitsu screenshot also offers two other little differences with our main subject - I'll get to the big red banner box in a moment, but first I want to highlight the bottom right corner of the status screen in both screenshots. Notice how our newest one has what appears to be a clock in a starburst with the number 3 beside it? This also appears in the first Gamespot screenshot on the bottom screen for the Revenant that Leon (that sexy looking dastard) is attacking, but it's greyed out. So, an interactive option for players only? Certain unit types? Unknown. Why it's in these new screenshots but not the other ones has an easy answer: the Gamespot screenshots take place late in Chapter One, while the older ones much earlier, so it could be something that unlocks as the playthrough goes on (like how you can't access Inventory or Support in Awakening for a few chapters). As to what it means... it appears a timer of some sort, and while it could be related to the whole "Food" option (timer of how long effects of food last?), or, hilariously, indicative of some sort of fatigue system (probably not, don't worry), my personal guess is that each turn in battle advances time forward in some way.

Clock symbol in a sun-shape just gives me that impression, and could tie into some other little things - for example, we know that there's a day and month system on the world map, with moving one space on the map being a day's progression, and so it could be that time moves during battles/while in dungeons to have the day/month thing progress more (and thus opening up a variety of options related to it, like certain dungeons opening or certain items being available on certain months, or an overall timer to get the game finished before the world ends/canon catches up to the Archanean imports. Whichever works.). And, from the very first trailer, we saw a battlefield in the late afternoon and another raining while at night, and since there's precedent with maps changing up as turns go on before (rain in FE7, for example), it could be a feature to vary up the grinding a bit and add some new layers - like, monsters could be stronger at night or something, so you gotta kill them in x amount of turns. Again, just wild guesswork, but hey, it's not a bad (if weird, like everything else Gaiden) idea overall.

VbyaxRO.png

Okay, now the big red box-shaped elephant in the room: the first time we saw it was in that Famitsu scan, and the mysterious Carrot of unknown but oft-speculated effect. The appearance of Tobin's Steel Bow inside it raises questions, but if it's the currently equipped weapon, then so do you equip food before you use it? And since the other screenshots we saw of the status screen so far don't have the box, but obviously they've still got weapons(/claws for that Revenant), it's possible they're just the "default" weapons, a Gaiden staple - characters who don't have certain weapons equipped just have default "Sword" or whatever. Either way, there's more goodness in that red box - for example, the Steel Bow has a unique weapon icon, which looks awesome in full 3D too, and if you look closely, underneath the icon is a bar, and underneath the text are five greyed out orbs. That looks a thing, doesn't it? I'll speculate it's some sort of levelling mechanic; there's no weapon ranks in Gaiden, so maybe to compensate you can level up your weapons by constant use - it looks like there's room for at least ten orbs, so it could be that steel weapons have five levels, while Iron could have three, Silver seven, and whatever's higher has ten. Levelling up could increase attack power (while adding to drawbacks, if the Steel Bow is what's giving Tobin +3 attack and -3 Speed ala Fates's weapon balance) or unlock certain weapon-related skills/attributes, which is my next thing.

That big ?????? attribute above the other two is a curiosity to be sure. Could be some sort of beta version thing (after all, the last batch of English screenshots had TEC instead of SKILL, so they might still be tweaking), but I'm also looking at the fact that Anti-Fliers attribute was not seen in the Famtisu screenshot of the enemy Archer's status screen. Two big differences between the Tobin screenshot and that enemy Archer - Tobin is Level 5, and has a Steel Bow. So Anti-Fliers could be unlocked at a certain level of the class (making attributes more like the recent skill system) or the weapon's level, and the ????? option is something else to unlock (at Level 10 or when the Steel Bow is levelled up). Or it could be the slot where default weapons go, and since it's empty the icon's suddenly turned gold and its existence got very confused... Also, side note: that screenshot I linked that showed a Revenant status screen also shows they have an attribute called "Terror", which no doubt is another expansion of gameplay - there's been some speculation that the existence of the smiley face next to everyone's HP bar could be a status indicator, so Terror could inflict some status condition, and maybe later you'll fight Revenants that can have a Poison Claw attribute or something. Who knows!  

Some other minor things from the article and the other screenshots: I love the idea that there's destructive crates/barrels in dungeons because it gives you some more stuff to play around with, and if there's gold and minor items dropped with them all the better - the existence of money itself would no doubt expand the game. Towns in Gaiden are pretty sparse, so if they add in shops with certain food/weapons, or Forges (if that weapon level theory I posited isn't a thing, could be you can forge attributes to weapons?), or hell, recruitable characters that cost gold, it'll add to the whole experience. Another minor thing is that the new Villager girl Effy is seen as a Cavalier, hopefully confirming she has the same options as the other boys and we can have a female Archer, Soldier or Mercenary line, of which the original Gaiden was lacking - variety's always good! Oh, and that screenshot of Tobin attacking the Revenant shows off little red bonus bits to his HIT and CRIT options, same as the first trailer showed Alm's CRIT increased while within three squares of his buddy Gray, so, y'know, some kind of support system exists (even if Pair-Up does not; the article mixes up the two). What level of support conversations we get is another post entirely, but I'm glad for the possibility of them at all to give us something to build towards while grinding in dungeons, so!

Anyway, all of these little quirks add up to one conclusion: Shadows Of Valentia intends to retain the spirit of Gaiden's notoriously scary/annoying difficulty quirks, but while giving players (especially newer ones) the option to even the playing field. Like, the 60 Avoid Graves are scary, but in all the screenshots with the terrain there looks to be a gauge with six squares underneath the terrain bonus, so it could be that, if it's not a cosmetic thing of six filled squares indicating 60 Avoid (and so 10 Avoid would be one square et cetera), that it's a variable gauge - maybe if you attack the enemy the gauge goes down one square, making it easier to hit them on your next attempt, or it goes down by the turn (double edged sword if it means you can't camp there and let enemies rush you), or even starts at zero and goes up by the turn (meaning you have to go quick to kill the enemy before they become unhittable to all but your magic users). Throw in the possibilities of added weapon dynamics, attributes/skill expansion, expansion of accessories from the original Gaiden, support bonuses, and Food (Which could be a whole system for temporarily boosting certain stats, along with the possibility of mixing certain ingredients at a Base ala PoR/RD to create full-on meals with bigger bonuses, but again, wild guesswork)... This game is going to be a gloriously weird and cool experience, and by god I can't wait to get more information.

Thanks for reading, and hope I helped out some!

 

Edited by MattOfValentia
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12 hours ago, Leif said:

Looks like units don't get portrait changes upon promotion which saddens me greatly. Tobin still has his tan propped collar despite his archer garb not having one. Ugh.

Yes I believe you were the one that was hoping for that. I'm sorry. I'm still holding out hope for a picture confirming free-roaming in towns (as opposed to something like My Castle in Fates). But...

12 hours ago, Leif said:

On another note, did you notice that UNIQUE WEAPONS ICONS ARE BACK?! The Steel Bow is gray with a red handle. I live for these little details, because FE Fates just looked so incomplete without them. 

Yes! But it's weird that it's unique there, but not in the picture of Tobin vs. the Revenant. Maybe it's just equippable items that only appear in the inventory, and then there are then generic icons for what kind of weapon you're using in the battle screen. It might also be limited, going off the Revenant's inventory (a black sword next to the word "Claws" seems pretty generic and could just be used for all enemy weapons; "Terror" might just be a different weapon type, like a spell or something)

I also like the bit of Greco-Roman art. It feels like a callback to the early days of the series when that was a major influence (Marth being a corruption of Mars, with his original outfit being a tunic and gladiator sandals).

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Between the possibility of no supports (as in conversations, which I think they could be referring to) and the complete lack of any new map design, I'm starting to get pretty worried about Echoes. Of course I'll still buy it, because I'm a suck for Fire Emblems, but I don't see myself coming back to this after completion as I have done with Conquest.

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@Alex:

You could try playing on the highest difficulty. You could try promoting the Villagers into classes other than ones that you have already promoted them to. You could try recruiting the one character between Sonya and Deen whom you didn't recruit previously. There IS material to work with here.

Edited by RedEyedDrake
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1 hour ago, Not_The_NSA said:

Disappointed that the author doesn't know how to use terms correctly. It's weapon triangle, not weapon wheel. Also, does the author not know the difference between Pair-Up/Tag-Team and Support Conversations?

Chances are they aren't a huge Fire Emblem fan. When you're working for such a large publication, it's impossible for everyone to know the complete details of every game they're covering. From the sound of things, they at least know a few things about Awakening and Fates.

Likewise if you suddenly asked me to cover Yo-kai Watch, I'd probably make a couple of generalisations as well.

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3 hours ago, InfinityAlex said:

Between the possibility of no supports (as in conversations, which I think they could be referring to) and the complete lack of any new map design, I'm starting to get pretty worried about Echoes. Of course I'll still buy it, because I'm a suck for Fire Emblems, but I don't see myself coming back to this after completion as I have done with Conquest.

I really don't think they were referring to no support conversations. Otherwise they wouldn't have specified they meant no supports in battle. I'd assume it was something like New Mystery of the Emblem, which had conversations but they didn't give you any combat boosts, just handed out stat boosters if you got all three conversations. 

Though I think someone said there's been some screenshot of Alm getting a bonus from standing next to Gray or something? In which case they might have actually meant Pair-up in the article, which considering they didn't know the correct name for the weapon triangle isn't farfetched. 

And considering the original Gaiden didn't have anything like passive supports without conversations like FE3/5, I don't see why they would add that and not any conversations to go with it. Speaking off, does anyone have a source on the support bonus thing since I have only heard it talked about, but haven't actually seen the screenshot?

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@NSA:

Protip here. Do yourself a favor and never actually listen to what "gaming journalists" have to say. And if you do somehow find yourself in a situation where you want to listen to them then do yourself a favor and do so while taking everything they say with a mountain's worth of salt.

Edited by RedEyedDrake
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2 hours ago, VincentASM said:

Chances are they aren't a huge Fire Emblem fan. When you're working for such a large publication, it's impossible for everyone to know the complete details of every game they're covering. From the sound of things, they at least know a few things about Awakening and Fates.

Likewise if you suddenly asked me to cover Yo-kai Watch, I'd probably make a couple of generalisations as well.

How hard is it when you are are one of the biggest gaming publications on the internet to find one person who enjoys a long-running series like FE? Especially after Awakening and Fates, which should have familiarized a bunch of gaming journalists to the series.

If you suddenly asked me to cover Yo-Kai Watch, I'd tell you ask somebody else who follows the franchise.

Like, it'd be understandable if it was Polygon or something, where their explicit goals are more to push an agenda than to cover games, but this is Gamespot. They exist solely to cover games.

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7 minutes ago, Slumber said:

How hard is it when you are are one of the biggest gaming publications on the internet to find one person who enjoys a long-running series like FE? Especially after Awakening and Fates, which should have familiarized a bunch of gaming journalists to the series.

If you suddenly asked me to cover Yo-Kai Watch, I'd tell you ask somebody else who follows the franchise.

Like, it'd be understandable if it was Polygon or something, where their explicit goals are more to push an agenda than to cover games, but this is Gamespot. They exist solely to cover games.

It depends. I dunno how these organisations work, but I figure they generally prefer to hire professionals and generally prefer to hire people they know. Which limits their choices. Plus FE being big still probably isn't big enough for them to put in the extra effort.

Anyway, I'm not defending them per se, but I always temper my expectations when it comes to gaming journalism and try to encourage others to do the same.

I think we might also be reading too much into the article as well.

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1 minute ago, VincentASM said:

It depends. I dunno how these organisations work, but I figure they generally prefer to hire professionals and generally prefer to hire people they know. Which limits their choices. Plus FE being big still probably isn't big enough for them to put in the extra effort.

Anyway, I'm not defending them per se, but I always temper my expectations when it comes to gaming journalism and try to encourage others to do the same.

I think we might also be reading too much into the article as well.

Probably. It's just that their misuse of some phrases(Particularly "Support") can cause a lot of confusion in a fandom where "supports" are a big selling point for some.

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Well, Fire Emblem became mainstream with Awakening, where Pair Up was the centerpiece of the support mechanic, both to boost the relationship values as quickly as possible and to make the most use out of the bonuses. Thus, to those who weren't familiar with the series before Awakening would be confused that this mechanic has been replaced by the classical way of activiating support bonuses, i. e. standing within three tiles to each other, and mistakenly believe supports are gone entirely. Adding to that, when the SoV was shown at PAX East, it probably focused on the dungeons and battles, not on the menus where the supports can be accessed.

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On 3/10/2017 at 4:53 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

23rd of Pegastym sounds like Day and Month, and the 401 the year. A calendar, basically.

Which is why I find it intriguing if it is. Considering that's something quite new. 401 years of what.

I'm guessing 401 years since Mila and Duma descended upon the continent and established their order and kingdoms. I've always wondered what a lot of these centuries in FEs signified as well.

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3 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

I'm guessing 401 years since Mila and Duma descended upon the continent and established their order and kingdoms. I've always wondered what a lot of these centuries in FEs signified as well.

That or maybe 401 years after the pact was signed.

Either way, it's pretty interesting since it was never specified when Mila and Duma appeared or left. However we do know the game takes place during 606 of the Archanea calendar, unless they retconned it (but the Pegasus sisters are still here).

7 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

From Nintendo Everything:
http://nintendoeverything.com/new-fire-emblem-echoes-shadows-of-valentia-details-screenshots/
"– No support system during battles"

...I mean, I'm not sure why I'm surprised by mainstream gaming "journalists", but I am.

I don't follow Nintendo Everything, but it looks like an aggregate site. So it rarely posts news of its own, but re-posts or summarises existing news. In this case, it's just summarising/re-posting Gamespot's info, hence the copy-pasta.

Not saying it's good practice, but that's the reason, sadly.

Edited by VincentASM
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38 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

That or maybe 401 years after the pact was signed.

Either way, it's pretty interesting since it was never specified when Mila and Duma appeared or left. However we do know the game takes place during 606 of the Archanea calendar, unless they retconned it (but the Pegasus sisters are still here).

I don't think they'd retcon it. Valentia wouldn't have a reason to use the same calendar as Archaneia (at least at the time), so it'd make sense to give it one of its own.

3 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

I'm guessing 401 years since Mila and Duma descended upon the continent and established their order and kingdoms. I've always wondered what a lot of these centuries in FEs signified as well.

Possibly. Both Archaneia and Grann calendars do use their respective countries' founding as year 0, after all. Could have precedent.

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59 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

That or maybe 401 years after the pact was signed.

Either way, it's pretty interesting since it was never specified when Mila and Duma appeared or left. However we do know the game takes place during 606 of the Archanea calendar, unless they retconned it (but the Pegasus sisters are still here).

As Acacia said, I doubt they'd retcon it. Valentia just have no reason to base their calendar on Akaneia's founding and it's not like trade between the continents is a common thing from what I remember so there's no need to adjust to each other for book keeping issues. Same in reverse, if this date is based on when the Duma/Mila pact was signed, Akaneia has no reason to acknowledge it.

This gave me an idea, what if the pact had a duration date? And the calendar is to know how much time is left, since when it ends all bets really will be off with regards to the fate of the continent.

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25 minutes ago, Not_The_NSA said:

The author has access to the Internet. I'm not asking them to list Sigurd's growths from FE4 of the top of their head or recite the title of every Fire Emblem, but is googling the term "Weapon Triangle" or looking for any sites that go over Fire Emblem too hard now?

I think that's more to do with ignorance. You don't need to look up what you think is correct : P

If it was for a research page or an essay, yeah, they'd probably look it up. If it's for an article that needs to be put up ASAP and then is largely forgotten the next day, there's less of a need to research.

Again, I am not condoning the practice, but that's the reason it happens. I mean, if you want something to be changed, you should probably reply to the author if you haven't done so already. Personally speaking, it doesn't annoy me enough for me to bother ^^;;;

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