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So I've currently got two Roys(-Atk/+Res and -Atk/+Def). If I pull another Roy with a more favorable stat spread(say -HP/+Spd or Atk) in the future and I merge my current Roy into it, does it keep all of the skills it has inherited and learned or will he have to learn them all over again?

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7 minutes ago, Suichimo said:

So I've currently got two Roys(-Atk/+Res and -Atk/+Def). If I pull another Roy with a more favorable stat spread(say -HP/+Spd or Atk) in the future and I merge my current Roy into it, does it keep all of the skills it has inherited and learned or will he have to learn them all over again?

Wait until the April update. Currently, the answer is no. The April update will make it so that merging will teach the recipient all of the taught skills of the sacrifice (probably still have to spend SP to re-learn, though).

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So, I kind of need help. I have Karel who is Level 37 who has 807 untouched SP. The highest rounded SP he would reach is about 850-870 at 40. What are some skills I could inherit for him to learn? I was thinking that his original skills help him with his style of fighting, but I was wondering what to inherit as well. 

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1 hour ago, Aera said:

So, I kind of need help. I have Karel who is Level 37 who has 807 untouched SP. The highest rounded SP he would reach is about 850-870 at 40. What are some skills I could inherit for him to learn? I was thinking that his original skills help him with his style of fighting, but I was wondering what to inherit as well. 

He has some good synergy with all his current skills all making him stronger at low health. You could just upgrade those for 830SP and you'll have a good unit.  You could take other skills, but they're more costly to upgrade most of the time and some are rare, like Distant Counter. Personally, if I had the optional, I would give him Fury instead of his Defiant Atk, and then a C-skill and assist skill that just depends on your team.

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Goto Skill for Cherche?

 

I know people bring her Brave Axe and Darting Blow. Anything else?

I am wondering if Frederick can be a mini-Cherche... He has slightly lower atk, while having higher def and hp. Their res both sucks which is normal. (A +ATK Frederick might be viable)

 

That being said. I have a +Spd/-Res Frederick; So ... to my knowledge; Brave Axe isnt worth it?

 

How come no one is talking about Hana? High atk+High Spd?

Edited by Ryuke
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15 minutes ago, Ryuke said:

Goto Skill for Cherche?

 

I know people bring her Brave Axe and Darting Blow. Anything else?

I am wondering if Frederick can be a mini-Cherche... He has slightly lower atk, while having higher def and hp. Their res both sucks which is normal. (A +ATK Frederick might be viable)

 

That being said. I have a +Spd/-Res Frederick; So ... to my knowledge; Brave Axe isnt worth it?

 

How come no one is talking about Hana? High atk+High Spd?

Not Darting Blow for Cherche but rather Death Blow (you want to boost her damage not her speed). For active special I'd recommend something that takes advantage of her massive attack, such as Dragon Fang or Draconic Aura. 

Frederick could work with a Brave Axe, but I haven't tested it personally.

Also, I've seen some talk here and there of giving Hana a Brave Sword+ and taking advantage of her high atk. Desperation would also be a good skill for her to have, to take advantage of her high spd. 

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12 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Not Darting Blow for Cherche but rather Death Blow (you want to boost her damage not her speed). For active special I'd recommend something that takes advantage of her massive attack, such as Dragon Fang or Draconic Aura. 

Frederick could work with a Brave Axe, but I haven't tested it personally.

Also, I've seen some talk here and there of giving Hana a Brave Sword+ and taking advantage of her high atk. Desperation would also be a good skill for her to have, to take advantage of her high spd. 

So ... in theory. a +Atk Fred might be super. Given similar build and Luna ... Yup... I just need to pull an +Atk one ... which is not likely going to happen because ... 20% chance of pulling a +Atk Fred on top of Fred.

 

Yes. I meant Death Blow. Sorry I always get these confuse.

Yeah Desparation + Brave Sword... maybe Vantage too? (since she needs to hit asap)

 

 

 

Sheena has the highest DEF+RES stat: Aka best wall tanker. Her issue is ... Red Mage/Sword... So ... have a Linde or MRobin stand behind her to snipe. (Give her renewal and +7 res under 50%? or something to make her viable?)

Edited by Ryuke
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On 3/22/2017 at 11:55 AM, Ice Dragon said:

For Life and Death, you want to specifically check your match-ups against the opponents you need that character to check.

Quick Riposte you can definitely run at level 1 if either (1) you don't need it to activate more than once per run or (2) the character takes high enough damage on a typical hit to knock them under the level 2 or 3 threshold to begin with.

Nino wants most of all to handle Linde. Other than that, start by looking at the blue and green units that your team currently has trouble with (e.g. Julia, Ephraim, etc.) and work from there.

Calcs aren't particularly difficult, just tedious. Here's the simplified version:

  1. Start with your base Atk and add all bonuses from skills (including weapon) and buffs and debuffs.
  2. If your weapon is effective against the opponent's, multiply by 1.5 and round down.
  3. If your weapon has weapon triangle advantage, multiply by 1.2 plus the Triangle Adept bonus (0.1, 0.15, or 0.2) and round down. If your weapon has weapon triangle disadvantage, multiply by 0.8 minus the Triangle Adept bonus and round up.
    1. Gem weapons count as 0.2 for the Triangle Adept bonus.
    2. Use the highest Triangle Adept bonus among both participants. They don't stack.
  4. Subtract the opponent's Def or Res including all bonuses from skills and buffs and debuffs. If the result is negative, leave it negative for now.
  5. If an offensive special skill activated, add that damage now. Round down.
    1. For Dragon Gaze, Dragon Fang, and Draconic Aura, use the Atk after applying skills and buffs, but before effective damage and weapon triangle advantage (i.e. from the end of step 1).
    2. For skills that scale off of Def and Res, include all buffs (including Blow skills if they are active).
    3. For Night Sky, Glimmer, and Astra, use the current damage from the end of step 4.
  6. If a defensive special skill activated, subtract that damage now. Round up.
  7. If the result is negative, it is now zero.

Note: The pattern for which direction to round is

  • If you are adding damage, round down.
  • If you are subtracting damage, round up.

 

I just realized I need to test if the bonus Atk from the Blade spells is counted for the special skills that scale off of Atk. I'm almost certain it does.

Hey sorry wanted to revisit this 1) to see if I'm doing this right and 2) to confirm that skills like Life and Death do NOT add to the effect of Blade tomes; they appear as a flat modifier to the unit's base stats, as evidenced by how the stats change when adding/removing the skill. I'm pretty sure Blade tomes only count the effect of boosts that come in the form of the little green arrow and whatnot. 

So.... the bonuses afforded by the Blade tomes are added to the unit's attack in Step 1, right...??

So here are my calcs for Speed+ Nino VS neutral Res Linde and some others: 

Spoiler

Nino’s Atk (neutral):       33

+13 Gronnblade+          46

+4 (LaD2)                      50

x1.2 WTA                       60

-36 Linde neutral Res    24 total damage

 

Nino’s (Spd boon) Speed w/ LaD 2   = 43 (39+4)

Linde’s (neutral) Speed w/ Spd+3     = 39 (36+3)

Lide's (Spd boon) Speed w/ Spd+3 = 42 (39+3)

 

Ergo, I believe Nino cannot ORKO neutral-speed Linde without LaD3, and cannot ORKO Speed+ Linde at all without an additional buff (which I guess she should have anyway though). Poop. I guess the good news is that a Hone or a Rally in speed will allow an easy ORKO barring any other speed buffs on Linde (I don't think Res buffs will make enough difference given the extra buffs to Nino's Atk from Gronnblade after speed boosts). Actually, Spur Speed from my Marth should be enough, but that's just what I've got to work with.

 

 

Not concerning myself with defensive calcs btw because this is assuming Nino is within Desperation range.

Uhh let's see who else we can do... m!Robin?

 

60 damage (same as before, gronnblade w/ no buffs) - 25 Res (with boon) = 35 damage

60 damage (same as before, gronnblade w/ no buffs) - 22 Res (neutral) = 38 damage (OHKOs HP bane)

 

So I think Nino can always ORKO Robin since the only way she can't double is if Defiant Speed 3 is active, in which case he's low enough for her to OHKO. no problems there.

 

 

going a little more ambitious now, Imma see how she does against Takumi. 

 

50 damage (neutral WTA no buffs) - 18 Res (neutral) = 32 damage

50 damage (neutral WTA no buffs) - 21 Res (boon) = 29 damage

Takumi's speed (boon) = 36-- doubled by LaD2

 

Okay so Nino can actually ORKO any Takumi while in range of Desperation with no buffs in play for anyone. That's pretty good.

 

 

Nino VS Julia: 

50 damage - 35 Res (boon) = 15 damage x 2 (Nino always doubles Julia) = 30 damage / 38 HP (neutral)

50 damage - 32 Res (neutral) = 18 damage x 2 = 36 damage / 41 HP (boon)

 

Okay, so Nino can't OHKO defensive variants of Julia without buffs. Lemme try throwing in a Hone Atk 3 boost from Olivia on the initial calcs.

 

33 nat attack + 13 (Gb+) + 4 (HA3) + 4 (blade boost) + 4 (LaD2) = 58

 

58 damage - 35 Res (boon) = 23 damage x 2 = ORKO

54 damage (any +4 buff other than attack) - 35 Res = 19 damage x 2 = ORKO

 

So Nino doesn't need MUCH help to land the kill on Julia, that's any +4 stat boost or even just +2 to Atk. That's pretty good. 

Not gonna bother with showing calcs on Ephraim on Cordelia (who ordinarily I have trouble with) as they get destroyed regardless of pretty much all variables

 

Okay. Now gonna try pushing the limits.

 

Other matchups (no buffs to Gronnblade applied) :

> Nino VS Camilla (Res+) : 16 x 2 = 32 damage / 37 HP (neutral) -- cannot ORKO without +3 boost (any stat)

> Nino VS Minerva (Spd+) : 43 Spd both units (with LaD applied) -- Nino deals 35 damage w/ no buffs. Needs Atk buff of at least +3 to OHKO.

> Nino VS Kagero (Res+) : 19 x 2 = ORKO (averted with Res buffs on target, counter-averted with any boost to Nino (even +1 lol))

> Nino VS Nowi (Res+) : 30 x 2 -- ORKO

> Nino VS Azura (Res+) : 29 x 2 -- cannot ORKO if Azura has speed buffs. Subverted if Nino has at least +2 speed

> Nino VS Azura (Spd+) : 32 -- cannot double without speed buffs. If Nino has LaD3, she will always double as long as she equals or exceeds Azura's buffs. 

(I can't remember if Gem weapons have a defensive penalty as well as offensive, so I'm assuming they don't. If they do, then Nino will probably be fine and these are in the unlikely case that Azura packs Silver or something lol)

 

I want to do VS Klein but I don't remember how Desperation works VS Quick Riposte... I'm assuming Klein would attack twice after Nino's two attacks, assuming he survives them? (which he doesn't lol)

 

 

If I flubbed any of these calcs, feel free to correct me. Otherwise, hope this helps any other Nino users lol.

So in summary, the difference of Life and Death 3 (as opposed to 2) on Speed+ Nino with Desperation basically means you can safely ORKO any variant of Linde and Azura without needing buffs, and can ORKO Takumi and most Blues even with just LaD2. Sounds like having anyone with Rally/Hone Speed pretty much covers her bases if I decide to go with the lesser route... so that's pretty good. Otherwise, Camilla, Julia, and Minerva are the standout targets who Nino wants to be buffed to take on, with Speed+ Minerva being the big threat in terms of speed (Nino cannot double except with a speed buff and LaD3), though LaD3 Nino could take her out with a +4 buff to any stat or +2 to Atk assuming I'm calcing Gronnblade's boosts correctly. That's pretty freakin' good if I'm doing this right. 

Dangit. I need another Matthew to give someone Hone Speed 3 lol. Although actually... I think she'll be fine with just Olivia's Hone Atk 3... so I guess I just need to run those two together if I'm gonna use Nino haha. 

Edited by BANRYU
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21 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Hey sorry wanted to revisit this 1) to see if I'm doing this right and 2) to confirm that skills like Life and Death do NOT add to the effect of Blade tomes; they appear as a flat modifier to the unit's base stats, as evidenced by how the stats change when adding/removing the skill. I'm pretty sure Blade tomes only count the effect of boosts that come in the form of the little green arrow and whatnot. 

So.... the bonuses afforded by the Blade tomes are added to the unit's attack in Step 1, right...??

Correct. Life and Death (and all Stat +n skills and Fury) does not give added bonuses with Blade tomes because they are flat modifiers to base stats. Only bonuses that result in a green up arrow work (Spur and Blow do not work, but Defiant does).

Also correct that bonuses from the Blade tomes are at the beginning of calculation in step 1.

 

21 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

(I can't remember if Gem weapons have a defensive penalty as well as offensive, so I'm assuming they don't. If they do, then Nino will probably be fine and these are in the unlikely case that Azura packs Silver or something lol)

Gem weapons (and Triangle Adept) apply their effect to both sides. Nino will have a 1.4x weapon triangle multiplier against Azura.

Technically, it's not that your defenses are lowered when at disadvantage, it's that your opponent's Atk is increased.

Everything else looks accurate at first glance (not going to check work for calculations you didn't show work for and just assume they're correct).

Edited by Ice Dragon
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47 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Correct. Life and Death (and all Stat +n skills and Fury) does not give added bonuses with Blade tomes because they are flat modifiers to base stats. Only bonuses that result in a green up arrow work (Spur and Blow do not work, but Defiant does).

Also correct that bonuses from the Blade tomes are at the beginning of calculation in step 1.

 

Gem weapons (and Triangle Adept) apply their effect to both sides. Nino will have a 1.4x weapon triangle multiplier against Azura.

Technically, it's not that your defenses are lowered when at disadvantage, it's that your opponent's Atk is increased.

ahh, right right. Sounds like I mostly got it right then except when it comes to Azura.

So... knowing that... That means that even with LaD2, neutral Res Azura is getting nuked and OHKO'd with no blade boosts, and neutral Speed is getting doubled and obliterated. Verrrry good to know hahaha~

Edited by BANRYU
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3 hours ago, Ryuke said:

How come no one is talking about Hana? High atk+High Spd?

Ice Dragon has a whole thread on Swordbreaker Hana, I think it's on page 2 or so by now, though, just dig for it.

(Personally I'm not a fan, mostly because I prefer 'barely enough offenses' so you have actual bulk. If everything dies in 1 round regardless, it's more important to make sure you can live through rounds yourself so going deathless is easier rather than going for big overkill numbers.)

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3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Ice Dragon has a whole thread on Swordbreaker Hana, I think it's on page 2 or so by now, though, just dig for it.

(Personally I'm not a fan, mostly because I prefer 'barely enough offenses' so you have actual bulk. If everything dies in 1 round regardless, it's more important to make sure you can live through rounds yourself so going deathless is easier rather than going for big overkill numbers.)

@Ryuke

I have a beta analysis of Swordbreaker + Brave Sword + Escutcheon Hana against swords here. Mostly testing out my match-up calculator and analysis format.

 

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Anyone has suggestions for Azura? I already gave her Wings of Mercy and I will keep Spur Res 3. 

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2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Ice Dragon has a whole thread on Swordbreaker Hana, I think it's on page 2 or so by now, though, just dig for it.

(Personally I'm not a fan, mostly because I prefer 'barely enough offenses' so you have actual bulk. If everything dies in 1 round regardless, it's more important to make sure you can live through rounds yourself so going deathless is easier rather than going for big overkill numbers.)

You have a valid point. Which is why I brought up the Frederick as Cherche argument. Because Cav is more mobile than Flier ... So when I use Cherche to hit. I have Frederick to come take out the next guy to Cherche.

So I probably need another 2 glass cannon (I am taking of Mage)

 

I brought Hana up because Hana at 3* saved my ass plenty of time (like last month when I dont have alot of 5*/4*). espeicially when you are down to 1 unit.

Will check IceDragon stuff. Thanks IceDragon (yes I dont want to botehr you with notif)

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Just now, Ice Dragon said:

@Ryuke

I have a beta analysis of Swordbreaker + Brave Sword + Escutcheon Hana against swords here. Mostly testing out my match-up calculator and analysis format.

 

Great write-up, by the way.

Since we're on the subject, how viable is +Speed -Res Hana?

Proposed build:

Brave Sword+
Ardent Sacrifice
Luna
Life and Death
Desperation
Threaten Speed

48 / 39 offenses

39 speed makes her potentially the best available user of Desperation, hitting nearly the entire cast 4x with no chance for a counterattack. Most of what she can't double dies on the first two strokes anyway. In fact, not even some blues that could check her normally can actually stomach four attacks, let alone one of them being a Luna. Sharena, Catria, and Robin for instance all take 9x3 followed up by Luna doing 23, for 50 damage and a ORKO.

Although, the biggest issue with this build is the prevalence of Swordbreaker, which makes her speed tier moot, and another includes requiring her to get Ardent Sacrifice off once in the game, which can make it lean towards being more gimmick than something truly useful. Is it workable?

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Edit: Went through many iterations. There may be still mistakes

Hey guys.

Been doing some theory building with my +SPD /-RES Frederick. (Yes... +SPD... So Brave wont be viable)

 

-Killer Axe+
-Life And Death 3
-Quick Riposte 3
-Threaten Attack/Threaten Speed
-Luna
-Reciprocal Aid/Swap (Still need to play around - maybe draw back)

L&D3 and QR3...  gives Frederick a stat of 
43/51/34/31/6

Yes... 6 Res... Gotta Sacrifice something.

Conclusion:
Pro
-He can kill (yes) ... Female Sword Lord on Defence (Quick Riposte) --> (Lyn, Lucina, Eirika)
Leaves Ryoma at 1HP though, Chrom and Roy etc will survive. So does Frederick.
QR is nullified after attack w/ any of the above attackers.

-After tanking one round of hit, he has LUNA activated. (Or already activated and used)
-34 Spd => Not likely to ever get double. And to my knowledge... he probably wont double too. (Unless its a slow Dragon)
-Can kill Nowi, Blue Dragons in one round. (Takes big dmg from CorrinF if attack first)
-Can kill a good amount Blue Lance in one round (Quick Riposte should kill them all easily)
-Will 1RKO SLOW red mage (Lilina) ... but not Tharja ... almost Sanaki.
-Suvive 1 hit from Cecilia (Blue Mage- havent tested.. but should do it)
-Threaten Atk/Spd => Not sure which one will help more yet. But with Threaten Speed. Allows Frederick to double some other opponents. Threaten Atk will definitely shield him from some potential dmg.

Con
-Get one shot by any Red Res attacker, Ursula [cav eff], RobinF [cav eff], Julia (Can kill Ursula, RobinF, Julia)
-Quick Riposte gets nullify when you get hit by Staff User too (or any magic user).
-Brave Weapon are killer (no surprise)

-Find out next time in Fire Emblem Z??

Neutral

-Merric,Takumi,Nino are like 50:50 (Whoever hits first gets the advantage)

 

 

 

 

All that aside. This is my first time doing an full on analysis. Even then; its kind of incomplete. Thoughts?
(I used all neutral characters except Frederick)


Future Analysis: Remove Quick Riposte for Pass -- so he can go and whack mage out first. May need to switch Killer Axe+ for Brave Axe+/Silver (but ... this costs speed...)

Need a healer to get Quick Riposte back on track.

 

Edited by Ryuke
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6 minutes ago, Ryuke said:

Hey guys.

Been doing some theory building with my +SPD /-RES Frederick. (Yes... +SPD... So Brave wont be viable)

 

-Silver Axe+
-Life And Death 3
-Quick Riposte 3

(Original)
-Fortify Def 3
-Luna


L&D3 and QR3...  gives Frederick a stat of 
43/55/34/31/6

Yes... 6 Res... Gotta Sacrifice something.

Conclusion:
Pro
-He can kill (yes) ... Female Sword Lord on Defence (Quick Riposte) --> (Lyn, Lucina, Eirika)
Leaves Ryoma at 1HP though, Chrom and Roy etc will survive. So does Frederick.
QR is nullified after attack w/ any of the above attackers.

-After tanking one hit, he has LUNA activated.
-34 Spd => Not likely to ever get double. And to my knowledge... he probably wont double too. (Unless its a slow Dragon)
-Can beat Nowi, Blue Dragons in one round. (Takes big dmg from CorrinF if attack first)
-Can beat all Blue Lance but Sharena in one round (leaves Sharena at 3 hp)


Con
-Get one shot by any Red Res attacker, Ursula [cav eff], RobinF [cav eff] (Can kill Ursula, RobinF yeah.. no surprise)
-Quick Riposte gets nullify when you get hit by Staff User too (or any magic user).

 

All that aside. This is my first time doing an full on analysis. Even then; its kind of incomplete. Thoughts?
(I used all neutral characters except Frederick)

That sounds pretty good, but if you're calcing neutral stats for all characters, I might suggest revisiting them with some relevant boons (and/or banes if you know what's popular or optimal) and seeing what, if anything, changes. 

Still, ORKOing the sword ladies on defense is pretty impressive.

 

Since I did the calcs for Nino I might do the writeup for her =3= if no one else wants to claim it.

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@BANRYU Not going to lie. This is super fun. Though it might be more fun in the future to automate the calculation (scripting and what not.) since it does take quite some time.

Turns out Frederick can survive one hit of neutral Nino which is all I need. (the speed helps). Though ... with 3hp.. I dont think he will survive a +Atk Nino.
I will definitely work on Boon/Bane and update the post (since its pointless to repost) ... Gonna be hard to survey through all the B/B on each characters... will definitely try +Atk/+Spd .. since that's the popular one

Yeah do your writeup for Nino ... I mean its going to be unique since your Nino have his own B/B.

 

-I might play around with some of my other build for different units that I have.

 

Edited by Ryuke
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Any characters you think would benefit a lot with Renewal + Breath of Life + Reciprocal Aid? I'm considering Felicia since she already has Breath of Life.
Is it even possible to run this skill set?

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46 minutes ago, Falcom said:

Any characters you think would benefit a lot with Renewal + Breath of Life + Reciprocal Aid? I'm considering Felicia since she already has Breath of Life.
Is it even possible to run this skill set?

It's definitely possible to run all those skills together, since none of them overlap. As for units that could work with that combo, perhaps Nowi? She doesn't especially need Threaten RES, I don't think, so Breath of Life could go in her C Slot, and she can replace Rally Defense with Reciprocal aid, and Renewal wouldn't be conflicting with any other skill, so she definitely has room for all of them, and with 45 HP she can probably give a full heal to most characters with Reciprocal Aid. Or maybe Young Tiki, who already comes with Breath of Life, has no B Skill or Command Skill so adding Renewal and Reciprocal Aid wouldn't alter her skillset much, and she really only has to fear Falchions since she has WTA over Julia to mitigate some of Naga's damage (I'm not certain that Tiki can survive Julia even at full HP, and even if she can you should probably still keep Tiki clear of Julia unless she's at full HP and Julia doesn't have Dragon Fang, but you have the option of having Tiki deal with her if it comes to that).

Of course, your idea of using this setup on Felicia has merit as well, since she also has Breath of Life and no B or Command Skills, plus she deals debuffs when she attacks, which is good for letting your newly-healed-by-Breath-of-Life units finish off the enemy Felicia attacked to heal them. I'm not sure if Felicia has the HP to make Reciprocal Aid work though, but you could maybe go for Ardent Sacrifice instead for her.

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1 hour ago, Falcom said:

Any characters you think would benefit a lot with Renewal + Breath of Life + Reciprocal Aid? I'm considering Felicia since she already has Breath of Life.
Is it even possible to run this skill set?

You can always run it on Linde and pretend she's a healer who actually does something. (I'm not sure if Breath of Life stacks with Aura, but it probably does.)

Edit: No renewal, though, Linde doesn't need it, and murder healing is the best healing anyway. (She can always siphon some hp off someone if she somehow tanks a hit.)

Edited by DehNutCase
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11 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

@DehNutCase, I'd guess Aura technically has Breath of Life 2, so rank 3 will simply override Aura's healing effect.

Not necessarily, since Falchion has innate Renewal 2, but people have proven it stacks with Renewal if you have the skill equipped. 

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3 hours ago, Falcom said:

Any characters you think would benefit a lot with Renewal + Breath of Life + Reciprocal Aid? I'm considering Felicia since she already has Breath of Life.
Is it even possible to run this skill set?

Possible?  Yes.  Viable?  Well. . .

I'd go with a ranged character who can function without too many other skills.  Would prefer Jakob over Felicia, since he can be used as an emergency wall, and he gets innate Renewal.

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