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Skill Inheritance Discussion.


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4 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Regarding the Brave Axe + Desperation combo, I guess I'm just having trouble seeing how that IS a combo...? The whole perk of Desperation is essentially HAVING a brave effect (kinda) on the unit who has it after some damage is taken, which requires good speed... but doesn't a Brave weapon make that kind of redundant? I might be confused on something here but it doesn't quite add up to me; the only way that works, in my mind, is if you're running enough speed to still be able to double your target (in this regard I would think Camilla's default A-skill of Darting Blow would be what you want to run since it compensates for the Brave's speed debuff) so you can 4x attack them without retaliation, which I admit is a cool notion and definitely goes well with a 3-4 charge proc, but I have to wonder how many substantial threats there are that that could actually be used against... I assume maybe Hector is one of them....?? I can take a look at the speed tiers and do some calcs and stuff later maybe but for now I just don't have the time... ;;

Of the vanilla A+ tier and higher, +Spd Camilla with Darting Blow double attacks:

All:

  • Abel
  • Julia
  • Nowi
  • Camilla
  • Lilina
  • Ephraim
  • Chrom
  • Hector
  • Effie
  • Reinhardt

Neutral Spd or slower:

  • Tiki (Mystery)
  • Cordelia
  • Robin (M)

Negative Spd:

  • Tharja
  • Marth
  • Catria
  • Olivia
  • Takumi
  • Kagero

 

10 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

I think you and @Jason Funderburker are right though that Distant Counter + mage killing is probably her best bet, she stands a better chance at using that than any of the other axe fliers at least (dunno about fliers in general; Caeda has dat crazy res but IIRC her attack power is kinda weak).... and ranged attacking is a commodity that's nonexistent in the realm of fliers as well. So that could be something. If I happen to get both Hector/Ryoma and Camilla I'll probably do this tbh xDDD Not expecting that kind of luck in the least but I'm crazy enough to do it if given the opportunity xwx

I might use that set for a Camilla analysis lol ;;

I ran the numbers earlier.

With a Silver Axe+, Moonbow, Distant Counter, and Quick Riposte for a guaranteed double attack, [+Spd, -Def] Camilla's match-ups against vanilla mages looks like this:

  • Utterly demolishes all blue mages. +Atk Linde deals the most damage at a mere 30%.
  • Kills Julia, unboosted Nino, Cecilia, and neutral Robin (F). +Atk Julia deals the most damage at 57%. +Def Robin is left with 5 HP and can be finished off on player phase.
  • Survives Merric and finishes off on player phase. +Atk Merric leaves Camilla with 2 HP.
  • Dies to Eirika-boosted Nino, deals 79% damage to Nino before dying.
  • Dies to unboosted Tharja, deals 33% damage to Tharja before dying.
  • Dies to Eirika-boosted +Atk Tharja in one hit.
  • Kills neutral Lilina. +Atk Lilina leaves Camilla with 1 HP. Fails to kill +Def Lilina.
  • Dies to Sanaki in one hit.
  • Survives neutral Leo and Raigh and kills on player phase. Cannot kill +Def versions on player phase without an Atk buff.
  • Survives neutral Sophia and Henry, but cannot kill on player phase. Cannot survive another round of attacks from Sophia, but can survive Henry. Cannot win either engagement without support.
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1 hour ago, LordFrigid said:

I never said he couldn't deal with swords. I had an entire list of matchups in my first post saying he can deal with most swords. My point is that because

  1. The number of matchups where he needs Moonbow are limited and mostly not worth worrying about (the latter obviously being a matter of personal opinion).
  2. Swordbreaker Sword units can exist (the faster of which -Spd Corrin will not be able to handle).
  3. Blues are just better at dealing with Swords.

it's unnecessary to run Moonbow and instead, just give the rough matchup to said blue unit.

To answer the question, he's on the team to take pressure off of said blue unit in the cases where it's not impossible or unfeasible for him to do so. And that should be enough. Again...I do not deny that having the options granted by a widened range is useful. I just don't see why it's necessary for the team (note: not Corrin in a vacuum) to be successful.

Also, can you clarify what you mean on the matchups against Def boon + Fury 3 units? I'm seeing the part about the ORKOs, but I'm not getting that every other sword (edit: outside of weapon-upgrade-less Selena) defeats him. Do they all have different weaponry? This is the list I'm seeing:

Edit: Assumptions for the list are 1) Def boon 2) Fury Inheritance 3) Moonbow inherited if there is no default proc (to match up with your post from before).

  Hide contents

ALWAYS WINS:
Caeda: 1 round(s) when attacking 1st, and 1 round(s) when attacking 2nd.
Eirika: 2 round(s) when attacking 1st, and 2 round(s) when attacking 2nd.
Eliwood: 1 round(s) when attacking 1st, and 1 round(s) when attacking 2nd.
Fir: 1 round(s) when attacking 1st, and 1 round(s) when attacking 2nd.
Hana: 1 round(s) when attacking 1st, and 1 round(s) when attacking 2nd.
Lon'qu: 1 round(s) when attacking 1st, and 1 round(s) when attacking 2nd.
Lyn: 1 round(s) when attacking 1st, and 1 round(s) when attacking 2nd.
Olivia: 1 round(s) when attacking 1st, and 1 round(s) when attacking 2nd.
Selena: 2 round(s) when attacking 1st, and 2 round(s) when attacking 2nd.
Stahl: 2 round(s) when attacking 1st, and 2 round(s) when attacking 2nd.

WINS WHEN ATTACKING 1st:

WINS WHEN ATTACKING 2nd:
Alfonse: 2 round(s).
Cain: 2 round(s).
Chrom: 2 round(s).
Corrin (M): 2 round(s).
Draug: 2 round(s).
Laslow: 2 round(s).
Lucina: 2 round(s).
Marth: 2 round(s).
Ogma: 2 round(s).
Palla: 2 round(s).
Roy: 2 round(s).
Ryoma: 2 round(s).
Seliph: 2 round(s).

ALWAYS LOSES:
Eldigan
Hinata

This question is mostly so I can pinpoint any errors I might have made in the ol' combat simulator, so if could humor me here I'd appreciate it.

Oh, sorry, I have a bad habit of leaving my posts really hard to read. They also have Vantage. (Which is probably going to be an extremely common skill on defense.) Your calculator is fine.

 

Edit: I choose Vantage because it's probably going to be the most common B-skill in defense teams. Things like Desperation and Brash-Assault don't work well in AI hands (despite how amazing as they are in player's---well, more Desperation, Brash is basically only good on Lyn), so defense teams will probably use Vantage over those, with Breakers as another option.

Edited by DehNutCase
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3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Oh, sorry, I have a bad habit of leaving my posts really hard to read. They also have Vantage. (Which is probably going to be an extremely common skill on defense.) Your calculator is fine.

I agree that vantage will be super popular, but wouldn't Swordbreaker be more effective? Even on defense, if the enemy has Swordbreaker and you don't, you get hit twice. If you do have Swordbreaker, then they will just cancel each other out.

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12 minutes ago, Clogon said:

I agree that vantage will be super popular, but wouldn't Swordbreaker be more effective? Even on defense, if the enemy has Swordbreaker and you don't, you get hit twice. If you do have Swordbreaker, then they will just cancel each other out.

The problem is, on defense, there's no way to force the player to run a sword into a Swordbreaker, whereas Vantage will always work. Ex. would you rather run Distant Counter, Sword-breaker Lucina or Distant Counter, Vantage Lucina on defense?

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Of the vanilla A+ tier and higher, +Spd Camilla with Darting Blow double attacks:

All:

  • Abel
  • Julia
  • Nowi
  • Camilla
  • Lilina
  • Ephraim
  • Chrom
  • Hector
  • Effie
  • Reinhardt

Neutral Spd or slower:

  • Tiki (Mystery)
  • Cordelia
  • Robin (M)

Negative Spd:

  • Tharja
  • Marth
  • Catria
  • Olivia
  • Takumi
  • Kagero

 

I ran the numbers earlier.

With a Silver Axe+, Moonbow, Distant Counter, and Quick Riposte for a guaranteed double attack, [+Spd, -Def] Camilla's match-ups against vanilla mages looks like this:

  • Utterly demolishes all blue mages. +Atk Linde deals the most damage at a mere 30%.
  • Kills Julia, unboosted Nino, Cecilia, and neutral Robin (F). +Atk Julia deals the most damage at 57%. +Def Robin is left with 5 HP and can be finished off on player phase.
  • Survives Merric and finishes off on player phase. +Atk Merric leaves Camilla with 2 HP.
  • Dies to Eirika-boosted Nino, deals 79% damage to Nino before dying.
  • Dies to unboosted Tharja, deals 33% damage to Tharja before dying.
  • Dies to Eirika-boosted +Atk Tharja in one hit.
  • Kills neutral Lilina. +Atk Lilina leaves Camilla with 1 HP. Fails to kill +Def Lilina.
  • Dies to Sanaki in one hit.
  • Survives neutral Leo and Raigh and kills on player phase. Cannot kill +Def versions on player phase without an Atk buff.
  • Survives neutral Sophia and Henry, but cannot kill on player phase. Cannot survive another round of attacks from Sophia, but can survive Henry. Cannot win either engagement without support.

Oh my, Magekiller Camilla is more effective than I gave her credit for. I didn't think she'd be surviving even several red units (and her ability to kill all the major green threats even without G Tomebreaker is quite nice). Thanks as usual for the calcs @Ice Dragon!

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Which would be best for a +Def/-Spd Minerva? Moonbow or Draconic Aura? I have 4* Camilla of which I have a 5* of the exact same nature. Two 3* Odin's for Moonbow.

I plan to use her in Arena with the current team:

Ryoma: Raijinto, Night Sky, Defiant Attack 3, Vantage 2, Hone Spd 3. (Can't afford Vantage 3 yet)
Sharena: Fensalir, Rally Attack, Speed +3, Threaten Speed 3
Ninian: Light Breath+, Dance, Escape Route, Fortify Defense 2

I know Draconic Aura would probably be best but is it worth sacrificing the one spare Camilla I have for Minerva?

And a good B skill for Minerva?

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48 minutes ago, Dual Dragons said:

Which would be best for a +Def/-Spd Minerva? Moonbow or Draconic Aura? I have 4* Camilla of which I have a 5* of the exact same nature. Two 3* Odin's for Moonbow.

I plan to use her in Arena with the current team:

Ryoma: Raijinto, Night Sky, Defiant Attack 3, Vantage 2, Hone Spd 3. (Can't afford Vantage 3 yet)
Sharena: Fensalir, Rally Attack, Speed +3, Threaten Speed 3
Ninian: Light Breath+, Dance, Escape Route, Fortify Defense 2

I know Draconic Aura would probably be best but is it worth sacrificing the one spare Camilla I have for Minerva?

And a good B skill for Minerva?

From a strict numbers PoV, it's Dragonic Aura.  However, Moonbow's on a ridiculously low cooldown, meaning that all you need to do is take a hit on enemy phase, and it's up.  Figure out whether or not you'd rather have consistency or bigger numbers, and plan accordingly.

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Huh, Magekiller Camilla looks pretty good. Looks like Threaten Def would be her best C skill: a few units live if they're +Def versions otherwise. Unless those numbers were with Savage Blow in which case there's no getting around those few units clinging to life.

As for pegasus knights with that set up, I'm not a number crunching machine to that kind of level but:

  • Camilla has 32 Speed and 31 Res for default numbers
  • Catria is 34/25
  • Cordelia is 35/25
  • Est is 30/32
  • Florina is 27/34
  • Hinoka is 32/24
  • Shanna is 35/29
  • Subaki is 35/22
  • Caeda is 37/34
  • Palla is 31/26

Got a few other options (Est, Florina, Shanna, Caeda is the big one) when looking at just this criteria. When you expand their full stat spread:

  • Camilla is 37/30/32/28/31
  • Est is 36/35/30/24/32
  • Florina is 42/29/27/25/34
  • Shanna is 39/30/35/25/29
  • Caeda is 36/25/37/24/34

Camilla has the most def out of all of them, middle of the pack speed, 2nd worst res, tied for 2nd strongest. I think if you wanted one for each colour you could narrow it down to Camilla/Est/Caeda. Then you remember that Green and Blue mages are the most common in the meta, meaning that a green version of this build does the best tanking overall and thus can whip out the most damage safely. If it wasn't for her horrible strength though Caeda would be right behind Camilla.

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@Dual Dragons If you don't plan on using Camilla for anything it's probably worth it and it's up to your play style if you rather use a 2 charge special or a 1 charge Moonbow. I think Wings of Mercy, Quick Reposite, or Vantage could be good for her B.

 

 

Been thinking of some Felicia builds, since Arena matches are currently fast paced I think Iceberg is probably better for her due to the faster charge time (3 vs 4 from Glacier) even though you'll lose 11 damage for switching to it. Feel free to give me suggestions if you want.


Anti-Infantry Felicia
 

Spoiler


Assist: Your choice
Special: Iceberg
Weapon: Poison Dagger +
A: Life and Death
B: Vantage 3
C: Threaten Speed/Attack

This is an expensive build for her, with it she'll be capable of handling Takumi, M.Robin (unless he has triangle adept)  and handle other infantry units with ease. Most of the time she's capable of surviving a hit against non-brave physicial users so she can utilize vantage well. For her A skill Life and Death will allow her to one shot a Linde, extra speed from LOD will allow to double more often, and it's obtainable from Hana which is a free unit from special battles. For B Vantage is pretty necessary to cancel out other Vantage users or against a non Vantage range character that tries to finish her off, she'll most likely kill him/her if they were weakened beforehand. and for C it's up to you if you want her to double even more or reduce the enemy's damage for others.

 

Support Felicia (This one probably works better on Jakob due to his higher defensive stats)

 

Spoiler

Assist: Drag Back, Rally skills, Reciprocal Aid
Special: Iceberg
Weapons: Silver Dagger + or Smoke Dagger +
A: Default or HP+5
B: Seal Speed/Attack
C: Hone Attack/Speed/Breath of Life

Pretty much as the name says this is aimed for stat reduction of the enemy, you have a lot of choices for her Assist, along with her B and C skill, it's all dependent on your playstyle and team. 

I think this could work as a general build for her as well if you use +3 SPD for her A which helps her double more and is obtained from common characters like Fir and Lon'qu.

 

Chip Damage Felicia

 

Spoiler

Assist: Up to you
Special: Iceberg
Weapon: Silver Dagger +
A: Darting Blow
B.Poison Strike
C.Savage Blow

Pretty much this build is for maximum passive damage to soften up the enemy, Darting Blow or Speed will help her double more so she can charge her Iceberg faster but it'll charge the enemy's skill as well which is good and bad. You'll need a Drag Back user to help move her to safety as she chips away the enemy.

 

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1 minute ago, Fei Mao said:

@Dual Dragons If you don't plan on using Camilla for anything it's probably worth it and it's up to your play style if you rather use a 2 charge special or a 1 charge Moonbow. I think Wings of Mercy, Quick Reposite, or Vantage could be good for her B.

 

 

Been thinking of some Felicia builds, since Arena matches are currently fast paced I think Iceberg is probably better for her due to the faster charge time (3 vs 4 from Glacier) even though you'll lose 11 damage for switching to it. Feel free to give me suggestions if you want.


Anti-Infantry Felicia
 

  Reveal hidden contents


Assist: Your choice
Special: Iceberg
Weapon: Poison Dagger +
A: Life and Death
B: Vantage 3
C: Threaten Speed/Attack

This is an expensive build for her, with it she'll be capable of handling Takumi, M.Robin (unless he has triangle adept)  and handle other infantry units with ease. Most of the time she's capable of surviving a hit against non-brave physicial users so she can utilize vantage well. For her A skill Life and Death will allow her to one shot a Linde, extra speed from LOD will allow to double more often, and it's obtainable from Hana which is a free unit from special battles. For B Vantage is pretty necessary to cancel out other Vantage users or against a non Vantage range character that tries to finish her off, she'll most likely kill him/her if they were weakened beforehand. and for C it's up to you if you want her to double even more or reduce the enemy's damage for others.

 

Support Felicia (This one probably works better on Jakob due to his higher defensive stats)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Assist: Drag Back, Rally skills, Reciprocal Aid
Special: Iceberg
Weapons: Silver Dagger + or Smoke Dagger +
A: Default or HP+5
B: Seal Speed/Attack
C: Hone Attack/Speed/Breath of Life

Pretty much as the name says this is aimed for stat reduction of the enemy, you have a lot of choices for her Assist, along with her B and C skill, it's all dependent on your playstyle and team. 

I think this could work as a general build for her as well if you use +3 SPD for her A which helps her double more and is obtained from common characters like Fir and Lon'qu.

 

Chip Damage Felicia

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Assist: Up to you
Special: Iceberg
Weapon: Silver Dagger +
A: Darting Blow
B.Poison Strike
C.Savage Blow

Pretty much this build is for maximum passive damage to soften up the enemy, Darting Blow or Speed will help her double more so she can charge her Iceberg faster but it'll charge the enemy's skill as well which is good and bad. You'll need a Drag Back user to help move her to safety as she chips away the enemy.

 

I saw "anti-infantry" on the first set and I had sirens going off in my head.

Poison Dagger+ is best reserved for dagger users with high strength ratings, as their utility comes from taking out infantry units in one hit. And guess who has the highest natural attack of all the dagger users? Kagero. And the lowest? Felicia...

Those other sets look pretty good otherwise. Post-skill inheritance any dagger user on a team that is strictly designated for debuffing should take Saizo's Smoke Dagger+, as it's strictly better for AOE debuffing along with the synergy it has with Savage Blow and Poison Strike. Breath of Life / Ardent Sacrifice I find are done better with units that have the ability to heal themselves already, and the amount recovered is smaller than may be preferred. Taking Iceberg over Glacies as your special may be a good call due to the lower CD, but Felicia's attack is naturally low and she may miss the added damage Glacies gives her.

Hope this helped!

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5 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

The problem is, on defense, there's no way to force the player to run a sword into a Swordbreaker, whereas Vantage will always work. Ex. would you rather run Distant Counter, Sword-breaker Lucina or Distant Counter, Vantage Lucina on defense?

Seconding this. I've only been keeping track a few days, but most of the B slots on sword units, as far as I've seen, have been Vantage, Desperation, or Renewal, with an edge toward Vantage.

5 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Oh, sorry, I have a bad habit of leaving my posts really hard to read. They also have Vantage. (Which is probably going to be an extremely common skill on defense.) Your calculator is fine.

 

Edit: I choose Vantage because it's probably going to be the most common B-skill in defense teams. Things like Desperation and Brash-Assault don't work well in AI hands (despite how amazing as they are in player's---well, more Desperation, Brash is basically only good on Lyn), so defense teams will probably use Vantage over those, with Breakers as another option.

Ah, yeah, that'd do it. Thank you.

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3 hours ago, TheNiddo said:

Huh, Magekiller Camilla looks pretty good. Looks like Threaten Def would be her best C skill: a few units live if they're +Def versions otherwise. Unless those numbers were with Savage Blow in which case there's no getting around those few units clinging to life.

Savage Blow only hits the units around the target. It doesn't hit the target itself.

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3 hours ago, LordFrigid said:

Seconding this. I've only been keeping track a few days, but most of the B slots on sword units, as far as I've seen, have been Vantage, Desperation, or Renewal, with an edge toward Vantage.

I feel like, with skill inheritance, people are now going to be having completely different teams for Offense and Defense (I mean maybe they did already, but pre-SI I really just used my main Arena team for both offense and defense as I didn't really have better options) since some skill builds are heavily optimized for offense whereas others are more specialized for defense. 

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12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Savage Blow only hits the units around the target. It doesn't hit the target itself.

Right right. Wrote that first thing in the morning before coffee. In that case, Threaten Def would be arguably the best C passive for a magekiller Camilla. 

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11 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Edit: I choose Vantage because it's probably going to be the most common B-skill in defense teams. Things like Desperation and Brash-Assault don't work well in AI hands (despite how amazing as they are in player's---well, more Desperation, Brash is basically only good on Lyn), so defense teams will probably use Vantage over those, with Breakers as another option.

 

3 hours ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

I feel like, with skill inheritance, people are now going to be having completely different teams for Offense and Defense (I mean maybe they did already, but pre-SI I really just used my main Arena team for both offense and defense as I didn't really have better options) since some skill builds are heavily optimized for offense whereas others are more specialized for defense. 

A random intrusion: what do you guys think are the best skills for Nino on a defensive arena team? I was originally planning on Life and Death + Desperation, but I feel like it would go to waste on a defensive team, because, like you guys said, the AI doesn't really know how to use those skills.

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@Tragonight To be honest, Nino is mostly just a Green Linde on defense. Excellent Speed and Atk, tissue paper bulk. Most B-skills rely on being able to tank at least ONE hit to use useful, which she can't.

So... Wings of Mercy.

Tanky melee guy hits first, takes counter and goes below 50%, Nino comes in to 1HKO (hopefully).

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23 minutes ago, Tragonight said:

 

A random intrusion: what do you guys think are the best skills for Nino on a defensive arena team? I was originally planning on Life and Death + Desperation, but I feel like it would go to waste on a defensive team, because, like you guys said, the AI doesn't really know how to use those skills.

 

7 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

@Tragonight To be honest, Nino is mostly just a Green Linde on defense. Excellent Speed and Atk, tissue paper bulk. Most B-skills rely on being able to tank at least ONE hit to use useful, which she can't.

So... Wings of Mercy.

Tanky melee guy hits first, takes counter and goes below 50%, Nino comes in to 1HKO (hopefully).

This. Basically Nino's a lot worse on defense than offense bc the AI doesn't know to position properly to maximize buffs. 

Life and Death + Desperation is still great on offense, but a defensive Nino would probably want something more like Death Blow + Wings of Mercy. Wings of Mercy in general is just especially potent on defense teams, I've found.

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On the subject of defense teams and Nino, currently she still runs draw back so I'm still running her on defense (mainly because Ryoma and Reinhardt run Swap and Reposition, respectively, to make it confusing for people). I only have one Nino and I'd rather just use her for offense, so who do you think would work well with Ryo/Reinhardt on defense? I also have a reasonable amount of fodder I can work with. Ryoma also has vantage3. Reinhardt needs Death Blow 3, but I'm not saccing the 5* Klein and I'm waiting for a 4* one to come.

These are my guys that are 4*+ and lv 40:  

 

2Vfoi6m.png

 

Edited by Thor Odinson
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9 hours ago, eclipse said:

From a strict numbers PoV, it's Dragonic Aura.  However, Moonbow's on a ridiculously low cooldown, meaning that all you need to do is take a hit on enemy phase, and it's up.  Figure out whether or not you'd rather have consistency or bigger numbers, and plan accordingly.

 

8 hours ago, Fei Mao said:

@Dual Dragons If you don't plan on using Camilla for anything it's probably worth it and it's up to your play style if you rather use a 2 charge special or a 1 charge Moonbow. I think Wings of Mercy, Quick Reposite, or Vantage could be good for her B.

Yeah, I think I'll go with Draconic Aura. My team now has this theme of being on the slower side but tanking physical hits pretty well thanks to Ninian's Fortify Def and Minerva's Spur Def. Then there's Sharena debuffing enemy Speed to more manageable damage. I think I can afford an extra charge so that Minerva has the capacity to one-shot more units like Sharena. Thanks!

And thanks, Fei Mao, for the B skill suggestions. She doesn't have enough SP for everything but I'll keep it in mind for the future.

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9 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

I saw "anti-infantry" on the first set and I had sirens going off in my head.

Poison Dagger+ is best reserved for dagger users with high strength ratings, as their utility comes from taking out infantry units in one hit. And guess who has the highest natural attack of all the dagger users? Kagero. And the lowest? Felicia...

Those other sets look pretty good otherwise. Post-skill inheritance any dagger user on a team that is strictly designated for debuffing should take Saizo's Smoke Dagger+, as it's strictly better for AOE debuffing along with the synergy it has with Savage Blow and Poison Strike. Breath of Life / Ardent Sacrifice I find are done better with units that have the ability to heal themselves already, and the amount recovered is smaller than may be preferred. Taking Iceberg over Glacies as your special may be a good call due to the lower CD, but Felicia's attack is naturally low and she may miss the added damage Glacies gives her.

Hope this helped!

 I see, if I roll another Saizo I'll give his Smoke Dagger+ a try. But first I'll need SP since I used it all on the Poison Strike 

Yep it helped, thanks for taking the time to give advice.

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18 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Thoughts on Fury vs Life and Death on a +Spd, -Def Nino?

 

I'd go LaD. You're ultimately aiming for 1SKs/1RKs. She's never going to take a hit well. Only thing Fury has going for it is BST points which is going away next month.

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@Ice Dragon Thanks for the Camilla calcs, super helpful and useful. I agree with @TheNiddo that Threaten Def seems like the most useful skill for her to make a lot of those matchups significantly more favorable...

Well gents, I think we know what Camilla's niche I was looking for is xD albeit... an expensive one haha ;; Only Caeda beats her in magically-defensive stats but her Str is garbo so Camilla wins pretty solidly in that regard (Caeda probably wants to stick to magic walling and support rather than magekilling from what I've seen). 

@Fei Mao TBH I think Felicia wants to be running support daggers what with her attack being as low as it is.... Smoke Dagger (+ a seal skill to actually hamper the target itself) or Rogue Dagger is what I'd think she could get the most use out of. 

26 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Thoughts on Fury vs Life and Death on a +Spd, -Def Nino?

I think both work, honestly, it's just a matter of what skills you have access to both for Nino and for other units. In my case, I went with LaD since I want to use Fury on other units and I have Ardent Sacrifice on her to get her in range of Desperation; however, if you DON'T have access to either LaD or AS, Fury provides essentially the same boost to offense while getting herself in range of Desperation with... I think it's 1-2 rounds of combat? (not sure and too lazy to check sry)

Having Fury over LaD might allow her to tank a hit from selective targets (definitely run calcs) to help get her safely in range of Desperation without having to burn a turn to get an ArSac off. Once she's in range of Desperation she shouldn't be taking any hits at all anyway, assuming you get your buffs and matchups right, so the recoil damage doesn't bother her too much IMO. The only thing to be aware of with Fury is increased arena ratings matching you with tougher opponents. 

tl;dr run Fury if you don't have access to (or don't want to use) Ardent Sacrificie/Reciprocal Aid 

EDIT: Oops okay wait. I overestimated/didn't remember the boosts that Fury gives, which is just +3 to everything VS LaD's +5 to offensive skills. Unboosted +Spd Nino with just LaD2 can actually take on a lot of threats, only needing boosts to secure KOs against the spongiest Res tanks in the game, and she REALLY wants as much in the way of offensive stats as possible IMO.

Answer is mostly the same as before-- Life and Death is the preferred option if you have access to it, Fury will work adequately if you don't (choose your matchups carefully), but Nino doesn't care too much about the extra bulk and would rather just be pure in terms of offense IMHO.

Edited by BANRYU
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