Skill Inheritance Discussion.

[Kaden]

27 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

@Kaden I'm personally a fan of Oboro with Killer Lance+, Bonfire, and Quick Riposte.

With Killer Lance and QR, Oboro can get a Bonfire proc every round of combat, which adds a lot to her damage output. 

Fury is the optimal A-slot, but both Atk +3 and Def +3 work fine. 

She might even be optimal with the new Fortress Def skill coming this next banner (Def +5, Atk -3). 

I manually entered Fortress Def's effect and it made it worse for her. Well, worse for a +Atk, -Res Oboro anyway. Using the same set-up where everyone has +Atk and Fury 3, Killer Lance+ with Fortress Def gets 38 wins, 24 losses, and 53 draws compared with Def +3 having 40 W, 24 L, and 51 D while Silver Lance+ gets 34 W, 24 L, and 57 D compared to with Def +3 having 42 W, 25 L, and 48 D. Fury's optimal, but I don't like that it drains her HP slowly putting her below QR's threshold. For arena, that might be fine, but for the eventual defensive battles that was slated to be a thing in an update and maybe certain future GHBs, that might not be ideal.

Edit: I have no idea what I'm doing with Selena other than I can make her survive, result in draws, for a ton of stuff. :p

Edited April 14, 2017 by Kaden

[DehNutCase]

8 minutes ago, Kaden said:

I manually entered Fortress Def's effect and it made it worse for her. Well, worse for a +Atk, -Res Oboro anyway. Using the same set-up where everyone has +Atk and Fury 3, Killer Lance+ with Fortress Def gets 38 wins, 24 losses, and 53 draws compared with Def +3 having 40 W, 24 L, and 51 D while Silver Lance+ gets 34 W, 24 L, and 57 D compared to with Def +3 having 42 W, 25 L, and 48 D. Fury's optimal, but I don't like that it drains her HP slowly putting her below QR's threshold. For arena, that might be fine, but for the eventual defensive battles that was slated to be a thing in an update and maybe certain future GHBs, that might not be ideal.

Edit: I have no idea what I'm doing with Selena other than I can make her survive, result in draws, for a ton of stuff. :p

This calculator could simulate tanking a hit and then you attacking on player phase:

http://andyiverson.me/apps/fehmasssimulator/

 

Personally, I probably won't be using Selena to do that at all. She'll either be defensively sweeping (using Renewal and bulk to just slowly whittle a team to death), or being used as a defensive Pivot (getting Cordelia the hell away from sharp and pointy things after she poked a few holes in someone).

[Kaden]

38 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

This calculator could simulate tanking a hit and then you attacking on player phase:

http://andyiverson.me/apps/fehmasssimulator/

 

Personally, I probably won't be using Selena to do that at all. She'll either be defensively sweeping (using Renewal and bulk to just slowly whittle a team to death), or being used as a defensive Pivot (getting Cordelia the hell away from sharp and pointy things after she poked a few holes in someone).

Thanks for that. Also, wasn't that what I was implying with having Selena tank stuff? Against greens, little to no damage and against reds, not much damage in some cases.

Life & Death Selena is kind of stupid. She's bulky enough where it either doesn't change anything to how much damage she takes or she takes a bit more than usual. Renewal is cool, but only Fae gives a full chain.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Kaden

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, Kaden said:

Thanks for that. Also, wasn't that what I was implying with having Selena tank stuff? Against greens, little to no damage and against reds, not much damage in some cases.

Life & Death Selena is kind of stupid. She's bulky enough where it either doesn't change anything to how much damage she takes or she takes a bit more than usual. Renewal is cool, but only Fae gives a full chain.

By 'that,' I meant: attack on player phase to finish, after tanking a hit.

Selena could produce decent coverage if you spec her for it, but she'll mostly be counter-killing: tanking a hit on EP and then fininshing on PP, whereas most other units could just straight up 1RKO in PP, and have the B-slot for either desperation or drag-back, to make positioning and HP management easier.

Most importantly, Selena can only counter-kill ONCE unless you TA\Ruby her and send her against greens. This problem can be overcome with healer support or reciprocal-aid, but neither are ideal solutions.

[Kaden]

Oh, so that's how Hit and Run works. The new banner has weird typos. Quest saying red tome instead of green and advance instead of retreat for Hit and Run.

Thinking about it, the new characters' skills resemble guerrilla tactics. I have never played Gaiden or know much about it other than Alm was a Dread Fighter in DLC Awakening, but if the idea is his group is a small group taking on a larger group, then ambush and guerrilla tactics makes sense.

Clair's Hit and Run is the easiest and it's pretty much interchangeable with Drag Back. The subtle differences, however, are what will determine what you can do with them. Drag Back is probably more useful if you have other units who can pile on damage to the dragged back enemy. Hit and Run might be safer for Brave weapon users if they can't ORKO for some reason even though Drag Back does a similar thing except you could be dragging back an enemy who you cannot finish.

Alm's Windsweep and Faye's Firesweep Bow preventing counter attacks is like when you get ambushed. Who do you know to attack or where? The attacker can pretty much do anything to you without fear of any danger or risk.

Luka's Fortress Defense could be considered like using the environment to mitigate damage at the cost of making your own offense a bit weaker. Fortress Defense might be more useful for units who don't care about their damage and need to tank. Perhaps that -Atk Odin thing or maybe Selena? It would suck to drop their damage, but if you need them to just sit there and laugh at everything doing 0 damage, it might work in a weird way. Heh, a +Def Draug with Fortress Defense.

Basically, I'm curious to how these skills can be put into practice with other units.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Kaden

[BANRYU]

Hit and Run seems useful for situations where you're attacking from 1-width uncrossable terrain (IE mountains or water, a la the arena Bridges map) where you can attack, then hop across the uncrossable terrain to keep 1-range infantry from chasing and following up. Seems like it'd really only be good on fliers for that reason though, and that's situational enough as it is. 

Fortress Defense as a skill reminds me of when I mentioned trying to make Obstructy viable, haha. Though granted both are quite map-situational as well.

Regarding Odin, I almost wonder if he DOES want to tank it hard in Atk and just put everything into defense... like Res+/Atk- with Fortress Defense levels and rely on Poison Strike/Savage Blow/Bonfire for dealing damage or something...

EDIT: Seal skills might also actually be good on him if his aim is to soften ppl up for other teammates. 

EDIT AGAIN: Nope dehnutcase was right and Odin pretty much needs Fury. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by BANRYU

[Kaden]

Just checked Lukas's stats and wow, he's really tanky. I think Fortress Def would actually hurt him more than it helps. His speed and resistance is low, but who needs that when you have Quick Riposte? 35 neutral attack and 38 neutral defense. This man needs Bonfire and Quick Riposte ASAP. He already has a Killer Lance and as a new banner unit, he'd have a + one. Attack or defense boon would help him a lot. Maybe +Atk more though since you could just give him 41 def with Def +3 from a 4* Stahl or Jakob if you have Jakob to spare. Distant Counter on this dude... Damn. Just keep him away from dragons and mages and Lukas is set to tear house.

Edit: I feel sorry for Oboro now. Sure, she's faster than Lukas and has more resistance, but he's stronger and tankier. Donnel is stronger, faster, and is the Brave Lance guy for a bit less defense, and Ephraim has Siegmund.

Well, at least she's still a best girl. :P

Edited April 14, 2017 by Kaden

[BANRYU]

I'd argue Oboro is a better user of Distant Counter due to surviving mages better, but Lukas is definitely king when it comes to the close-range tanking, no doubt ~3~

[Kaden]

@BANRYU, well, my Oboro has -Res and none of the 5 similar lance infantry has high resistance to begin with. I don't know what to do with Oboro now.

Donnel is pretty much the jack of all trades who is probably the best Brave Lance user of the 4 or 3 since Ephraim and Sharena have legendary weapons. Ephraim is the strongest, Lukas does physical tanking the best and with Quick Riposte, is probably a better anti-armor unit than Oboro, and Sharena is the fastest. Oboro feels like she's just there now and everyone else does a better job than her. +Res Oboro could have a niche, but eh... Is it really worth it when you she's still going to be doubled by many mages and there are other dedicated mage killers with higher resistance and speed?

Edited April 14, 2017 by Kaden

[BANRYU]

Oboro's stats ARE kind of unfortunately distributed in terms of Res and Speed (Res debatably doesn't help her that much and it's the main thing she has over other lance infantry, so to some degree Res- might be good for her, though not exactly in terms of standing out...

Then again, running the calcs it looks like Ephraim still gets a better win ratio in terms of kills and deaths compared to Oboro with Killer Lance running Distant Counter and QuickRip... x___X So I dunno. Oboro beats Bunny Lucina and lives to Merric where Ephraim dies otherwise but that's about it.

Well, I didn't pull Ephraim so might as well make use of best girl ~__~

[Kaden]

@BANRYU, that just got me thinking about Beruka, so I checked. Neither calculators have the new characters, so there's that.

Spoiler

 

If she and Michalis are running the same Flying Wall of Fire and Sharp Things: Bonfire, Killer Axe, and Quick Riposte, against everyone with +Atk and Fury 3, Michalis gets 13 more wins than Beruka. To give even things out, this is without Iote's Shield equipped on Michalis. Neutral Beruka gets 20 W, 38 L, 57 D while Michalis gets 33 W, 38 L, and 44 D. With Iote's Shield, he only gets 8 more draws. Basically, for the same set-up, Michalis does everything better than Beruka. Just to drive this in more, downgrading Michalis to a Killer Axe+ nets him 24 wins, 38 L, and 53 D.

Of the things Beruka has over Michalis, she wins against Raven and draws over Lon'qu and Olivia. That's it. Michalis leaves Raven at 1 HP, but then again, the fact Raven attacked first was a problem to begin with. For Lon'qu, he and Beruka leave themselves with 1 HP while Michalis leaves him with 24 while dying in the process which is similar to what happens with Olivia. 

The only way she can get close to Michalis without the use of Fury or L&D is if she's +Atk with Attack +3 giving her 29 W, 39 L, and 47 D. Speed boon or Speed +3 actually hurts her; she gets 18 W, 31 L, and 66 D -- she's probably too fast to get hit for another QR hit. Meanwhile, giving Michalis Attack +3 results in 37 W, 37 L, and 41 D or you could give him Defense +3 for 38 W, 33 L, and 44 D.

With Fury 3, Beruka gets 25 W, 23 L, and 67 D while Michalis gets 42 W, 25 L, and 48 D. Michalis downgraded to a Killer Axe+ gets 36 W, 25 L, and 54 D.

+Atk, -Spd Beruka with a Silver Axe+ in place of Killer Axe+ does better in terms of wins: 32 W, 44 L, and 40 D. +Atk, -Res has 1 less win, but has more losses and less draws: 30 W, 39 L, and 46 D. Neutral Beruka with a Silver Axe+ gets 25 W, 38 L, and 52 D.

Oh, and a quick check on Minerva running this set-up has her doing better than Beruka, but worse than Michalis at 29 W, 31 L, and 55 D. And like Michalis, downgrading her to a Killer Axe+ still results in Minerva doing better than Beruka where she trades 6 wins for 6 more draws.

Yeah... umm, unless you don't have Michalis because you started playing after his GHB, sacked both for Iote's Shield, or I have no reason why, but sent both of them home -- Seriously, why? -- and you don't have Minerva to run a set-up that she probably shouldn't be running, then there's no real reason to use Beruka with a Killer Axe version of this set-up. Part of it is her stat spread making her a tank, but not tanky enough when Michalis is tanky enough, faster, and much stronger, but it's also because 2 axe flyers have access to Hauteclare, a 16 MT Killer Axe. It's one thing to not be able to kill things because you're a tank. It's another when another unit tanks as much as you, but kills much more on counter hit.

That said, the main thing is they cover blues. If that's all you need, then either is fine which makes sense. Michalis extends this, however, to being able to kill more greens at the cost of losing to 2 more reds: Lon'qu and Olivia.

 

Also, checked Donnel with Oboro both using Killer Lance+, Def +3, Bonfire, and Quick Riposte against everyone with Fury 3 and +Atk. If they're both neutral, Donnel has 41 W, 16 L, and 62 D while Oboro has 39 W, 21 L, and 59 D. If Donnel has +Def, -Atk giving him the same attack and defense as Oboro, he does better with 2 more wins, 7 less losses, and 5 more draws. If Oboro is +Atk, -Res and he's +Def, -Spd giving them pretty much the same stats, still the same outcome of Donnel winning with 2 more wins, 5 less losses, and 3 more draws. If he's +Atk, -Res, then he has 2 more wins, 6 less losses, and 4 more draws over her.

With a Brave Lance and Bonfire, but their default other skills, neutral Donnel gets 39 W, 14 L, and 66 D while +Atk, -Res Oboro gets 39 W, 25 L, and 55 D. So, yeah... Oboro just loses no matter what she is or what she does. So, that's Donnel, Ephraim, and Lukas doing the Wall of Fire and Sharp Things better than her and probably better than her as Brave Lance users. It does not help that I have all of them, but Lukas.

Then again, this is in terms of ORKO which Oboro isn't exactly built to do by herself. Starting to get a feeling that Oboro is actually the average, the Jacqueline of All Trades, of the 5 lance infantry units instead of Donnel. Donnel and Ephraim are more of brute force, Lukas is the physical tank, and Sharena is the speedster. Oboro has a mix of all of those things while leaning towards having overall good defenses even with -Res since she still has similar resistance to =Res Donnel, Ephraim, and Sharena. The only thing she cannot touch is Sharena's domain of speed, but she can attempt brute force like Ephraim, Brave Lance nuking like Donnel, tanking like Lukas, and in terms of support, Sharena despite lacking a legendary with a built-in support so she can't have 4 support abilities. With that said, I think the Wall of Fire and Sharp Things might be her ideal build that while the others can do better, they have more potential in their own niches except for Lukas who might not have any other builds he can excel in since this build is catered towards tanking physical hits and dealing massive damage back through countering which fits his stats very well.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Kaden

[BANRYU]

Aw poop... It makes me legitimately sad when things like this occur, where characters legitimately just have no niche over everyone else who fulfills the same/similar role. Dx Beruka, too... That sucks. They just... not balanced out well enough to actually have a decent niche/role. Blegh. 

That said, I'll still use Oboro, since I like her better than Sharena/Donnel don't have/can't seem to get Ephraim (not even gonna try for Lukas either)... So I'll settle for the next best thing I can manage x____~ Ain't no one I want to use Killer Bonfire with more anyway...

 

So... in other news... I've got a freshly-maxed neutral f!Corrin and Spd+/Def- Merric sitting tight and waiting for some lovely skills and happy to take suggestions for them. Was running some calcs for Merric and it seems like Swift Sparrow is probably the best A-skill for Spd+ Merric but I missed out on my chances for that lol. So lookin' for other suggestions. Making use of Excalibur and Growing Wind is preferred but I avoided teaching any of his natural passives so he's got a hefty ~1000 SP he's sitting on ready to be used lol. 

In the case of f!Corrin I'd prefer to stick with her default skills (Seal Res isn't bad on a tanky unit like her and Hone Atk + DracAura are always good), so it's mainly an A-skill she'll be wanting I think, and an assist if she wants anything more specific than 'any' (might give her a rally so she can run more support when mages are around) though pivot skills prob good too

[TheNiddo]

On my Fem!Corrin I run Defiant Attack + HP Seal. Mine is a +Speed/-Res version but basically her one main weakness is low attack (and low res but lots of units have that problem so meh). She's tanky enough where as long as its not Julia up in her face she can safely drop down to below 50% HP, at which point she gets her attack up and going. When she's +Speed version she can double a lot of things and almost nothing doubles her. Don't know how good it would be for neutral but it should also stack with DracAura so that's something.

Always the standard "Triangle Advantage because really Julia is going to bend her over no matter what you use" option as well.

[ILikeKirbys]

1 hour ago, BANRYU said:

So... in other news... I've got a freshly-maxed neutral f!Corrin and Spd+/Def- Merric sitting tight and waiting for some lovely skills and happy to take suggestions for them. Was running some calcs for Merric and it seems like Swift Sparrow is probably the best A-skill for Spd+ Merric but I missed out on my chances for that lol. So lookin' for other suggestions. Making use of Excalibur and Growing Wind is preferred but I avoided teaching any of his natural passives so he's got a hefty ~1000 SP he's sitting on ready to be used lol. 

In the case of f!Corrin I'd prefer to stick with her default skills (Seal Res isn't bad on a tanky unit like her and Hone Atk + DracAura are always good), so it's mainly an A-skill she'll be wanting I think, and an assist if she wants anything more specific than 'any' (might give her a rally so she can run more support when mages are around) though pivot skills prob good too

Okay, for F!Corrin, I think you could try Defiant ATK, since Corrin has the DEF to maybe make a Defiant buff last a while if she isn't fighting Greens or mages and it would power up Draconic Aura, or maybe Fortress DEF to make Corrin super tanky if you're okay with dropping her ATK (and thus Draconic Aura's power) a little bit.

As for Merric, I think you could try Darting Blow for the A Skill if you want him to double more units (I wouldn't normally recommend Darting Blow, but your Merric is +SPD so you could probably get quite a lot of doubles at 41 SPD on Player Phase), or maybe Defiant DEF if you primarily want him to take on fliers. For the B Skill, I would suggest either Axebreaker (if Cherche/Camilla/Beruka/Narcian/Michalis/Minerva are giving your team trouble) or Lancebreaker (for the various lance-fliers that Merric gets WTA over, so that they can't double him and so he can double them). For the C Skill, I say you should either run a Hone/Fortify that your team wants or Threaten RES to give Merric a little extra power against enemies that come near him.
Also, if you're okay with parting with Growing Wind, consider Luna, since it'll let Merric ignore a substantial amount of RES, which is good because his primary targets (fliers) usually have quite a lot of RES so he may have trouble one-rounding them without a Luna proc.

I'm not sure that either of those suggestions are good, but these are my (very tired) thoughts.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

May I ask for suggestions for Eirika? Mine is -Atk +Res (rather unfortunate a nature).

I am currently thinking to give her Fury 3 and Iceberg. Would perhaps Moonbow be better?

What about B skills?

I usually run her with 2 ranged units (usually archers) + 1 other melee for arena, so she spends a lot of time supporting the rangers and blocking them off from melee units.

[LordFrigid]

I'm looking for input on what to do with a +Spd/-Atk Faye. She'd be run alongside Eirika, Nino, and Ephraim in the event that I don't have any other bonus heroes for the next two Arena seasons. Currently, the things that give my team the most trouble are red and green mages. Eirika and Ephraim are both basically buff-bots right now. I'm actually liking the redundant Atk and Spd buffs, as they can now give them to each other as well as the other teammates. Plus it gives me more options as far as starting positions, but I digress.

So far, I've been considering a few different options:

• Switch out the bow to something else (Killer Bow/Iceberg has been suggested). I like that idea, possibly tossing in Quick Riposte, but I'm worried mostly about -blade tomes, and the most worrying users of these tomes will double and KO her before her 2nd attack. I could give her a Breaker instead, for whichever color I find scarier, which leads me to...
• Keeping her standard Firesweep Bow and giving her a breaker on her B skill. I think breakers fit better here, because she can get two attacks off unanswered. It looks like, with an Atk buff, she'd be able to 2HKO Nino, Julia, and non-bow-countering variants of Spring Princess Camilla with G Tomebreaker. I'm honestly more worried about green tomes than red because greens are simply more common, in my experience. Also, I don't have any spare Odins.
• Keep the Firesweep and give her a Spd boosting skill, Seal Spd, and park her next to Eirika or Ephraim. Attack a mage without having to worry about the counterattack, and watch as Seal Spd (probably) stops them from doubling her on the EP, since she hits a reasonable 35 with +3 Spd and a buff. I'm not opposed to also sticking the Spd +1 Seal on her if that's what it takes to not get doubled.

Still slow-leveling her while I mull everything over (hardcore babysitting team of Eirika, Azura, and Elise are on the job). Honestly Eirika, Nino and Ephraim can carry a bonus unit, I'd just like to make her usable if possible. Any suggestion helps...especially since right now most of my considerations focus on the B/special slot. I'll probably go with a positioning skill for her assist if I end up giving her one, since Spring Exalt Chrom's Shove was actually pretty handy every now and then during my matches these past couple seasons (also I've got a +4 buff for everything except Atk already, so no dire need for her to carry a Rally).

[Kaden]

@BANRYU, there's Odin and Takumi who occupy the two extremes of good and bad units. Takumi is the best archer in the game bar none. I doubt future archers like Shinon or an eventual refresh with archer Alm will even match him. Setsuna is the fastest, but she has the lowest HP tied with Niles and Rebecca, the lowest overall defenses, and the second-lowest attack above Niles who is meant to fight mages.

Mini-rant of units in spoiler.

Spoiler

And then there's Florina who has to compete with Clair, Est, and Shanna. Clair is basically resistance Subaki or a flying Sully; similar low 26 attack, high, 36 speed, and high 33 resistance for 24 defense. Compared to Florina, she's not dependent on Darting Blow to double. If anything, Darting Blow would guarantee she doubles everything. Est trades HP and some points off of defense and resistance for 35 attack and 30 speed to Florina's 29 attack and 27 speed. So long as Est doesn't get hit by anything physical or even magical, she'll just hit hard and probably fast without needing to rely on Darting Blow. Shanna trades HP and resistance for 30 attack and 35 speed and she's built to use Desperation, she's going to shred units if her HP drops below 75%. Florina didn't have a chance.

Also, Hinoka who pretty much can don't anything else other than be another Cordelia. Can you try? Sure, but should you? No, because she does it so well.

I've a feeling that Jagen isn't that great when compared to Peri and Sully who by default are fast enough to double units. Yes, they'll take more damage from magic because of their lower resistance, but they won't get doubled or they'll straight up kill them, especially Peri considering her much higher base attack with her speed. At least with Clair, Felicia, Fir, and Niles who are other low attack, high resistance mage killers, they're really fast to make up for their low damage.

Off-topic, but have you played Final Fantasy XII? Short overview of the characters you can use: everyone has their niche, but 2: Fran and Vaan. Both are jack of all trades, but here's a problem: Vaan's overall stats are the highest of the all the characters while Fran's are the lowest. Oh, and despite being billed as an archer, Fran's attack animation for using bows, crossbows, and guns are slower than everyone, but Balthier and Penelo who also have the same, slower attack animations where Balthier is billed as a gun user. There was absolutely no reason why a random street urchin should be that powerful nor was there any reason why 3 characters are screwed in weapon choices and 2 of them start out using ranged weapons.

Why do I like units who have to be meh at best in this game?

Well, to be productive, is a non-Brave Axe build for Cherche even worth it? As much as I like using Brave Axes, it's getting a little boring seeing them everywhere even if they're fun to use. Case in point: Brave Sword is probably really good on Hana and the only decent boon/bane Lon'qu I summoned: +Atk, -Spd. I remember seeing a Silver Axe build for her just as I did for Frederick, but yes, it's a waste to not use her neutral attack without a Brave Axe. Her defense is good, but not 35-ish good. That said, assuming =Def, you could just slap a Def +3 on her and call it a day. Not even going to try using a Killer Axe on her considering Michalis and Minerva exist. A =Atk Cherche can reach 49 attack with a Killer Axe+, but it's probably not worth it. Silver Axe+ puts her at 53 and that's pretty fun-looking.

Also, what the hell am I supposed to do with extra healers? Other than be stupid and merge a 4* Lissa to an average one after spending her 1000-something SP -- pretty sure she has +HP, -Res which isn't that great, but whatever. Azama and Lissa have a skill that everyone can use, but Wrys doesn't; Wrys's skills are healer-only, so that's pointless. Only one Clarine, so she's staying even. The fact that only Lissa is a 4* doesn't help since if I want some of the other healing spells, I'd have to promote Azama or Wrys -- these two show up all the darn time -- which I'd rather not do.

144 units. Not fun. +44 need to go. -Atk, +Def 4* Barst is planned to go along with a spare Frederick to give +Atk, -Res Frederick Brave Axe and Reposition. 2 units. 142 left.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Kaden

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

50 minutes ago, Kaden said:

@BANRYU, there's Odin and Takumi who occupy the two extremes of good and bad units.

  Reveal hidden contents

And then there's Florina who has to compete with Clair, Est, and Shanna. Clair is basically resistance Subaki or a flying Sully; similar low 26 attack, high, 36 speed, and high 33 resistance for 24 defense. Compared to Florina, she's not dependent on Darting Blow to double. If anything, Darting Blow would guarantee she doubles everything. Est trades HP and some points off of defense and resistance for 35 attack and 30 speed to Florina's 29 attack and 27 speed. So long as Est doesn't get hit by anything physical or even magical, she'll just hit hard and probably fast without needing to rely on Darting Blow. Shanna trades HP and resistance for 30 attack and 35 speed and she's built to use Desperation, she's going to shred units if her HP drops below 75%. Florina didn't have a chance.

Also, Hinoka who pretty much can don't anything else other than be another Cordelia. Can you try? Sure, but should you? No, because she does it so well.

I've a feeling that Jagen isn't that great when compared to Peri and Sully who by default are fast enough to double units. Yes, they'll take more damage from magic because of their lower resistance, but they won't get doubled or they'll straight up kill them, especially Peri considering her much higher base attack with her speed. At least with Clair, Felicia, Fir, and Niles who are other low attack, high resistance mage killers, they're really fast to make up for their low damage.

Off-topic, but have you played Final Fantasy XII? Short overview of the characters you can use: everyone has their niche, but 2: Fran and Vaan. Both are jack of all trades, but here's a problem: Vaan's overall stats are the highest of the all the characters while Fran's are the lowest. Oh, and despite being billed as an archer, Fran's attack animation for using bows, crossbows, and guns are slower than everyone, but Balthier and Penelo who also have the same, slower attack animations where Balthier is billed as a gun user. There was absolutely no reason why a random street urchin should be that powerful nor was there any reason why 3 characters are screwed in weapon choices and 2 of them start out using ranged weapons.

Why do I like units who have to be meh at best in this game?

 

Odin doesnt seem to be that bad if used under the same condition as Nino and Tharja. Although a large part of it is because his skillset is godlike. He can reach 53 attack, 61 once defiant is active with pretty good bulk

53 isnt that low for offensive Parameter(stuff like Buffed Eliwood have 55)

Although its kinda funny how hes arguably the worst Blue Mage body in the game while at the same time having arguably the best skillset in the game bar none

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by JSND

[Kaden]

6 minutes ago, JSND said:

Odin doesnt seem to be that bad if used under the same condition as Nino and Tharja. Although a large part of it is because his skillset is godlike. He can reach 53 attack, 61 once defiant is active with pretty good bulk

53 isnt that low for offensive Parameter(stuff like Buffed Eliwood have 55)

Although its kinda funny how hes arguably the worst Blue Mage body in the game while at the same time having arguably the best skillset in the game bar none

 

Yeah, his skills rock, but his stats leave much to be desired. I wished his attack was 25-26 instead of 22 for maybe something like less HP or even speed which he could ignore with a -breaker skill. He also has the best special quotes. It's Odin, what did you expect? :p

[eclipse]

2 hours ago, XaosLogos said:

May I ask for suggestions for Eirika? Mine is -Atk +Res (rather unfortunate a nature).

I am currently thinking to give her Fury 3 and Iceberg. Would perhaps Moonbow be better?

What about B skills?

I usually run her with 2 ranged units (usually archers) + 1 other melee for arena, so she spends a lot of time supporting the rangers and blocking them off from melee units.

I think Fury 3 will work, along with Iceberg.  Moonbow is a skill that's more in demand, so I'd save it for a unit that can make better use of it.

Drag Back is a pretty powerful skill - she can melee an enemy, then run back to the safety of her team (where she wants to be).  If you absolutely must change it, maybe something like Swordbreaker - it'll allow her to double the squishier swords, which should deal appreciable damage to them.  Escape Route is another option, so that she always ends her turn next to an allied unit.

[mcsilas]

Odin, Beruka, Oboro...yeah all the faves unfortunately don't have good stats to have a good niche :(

Besides a Fury set (since I don't have Fury inheritors), I think I'll just stick with a Defiant set on Odin and have someone to give a Hone boost for Blarblade. Seems like a +Spd is his best asset, and using Defiant Speed with Attack +1 Seal nets him 1 more kills on player phase than using Defiant Attack. HP seems to be the boon that I want for this.

Theoretically the only ones I lose when attacking is Hector and female Robin (if -HP), which isn't too common. Hector lives with 2 HP, so someone else doing chip damage would be good. 

Also I was just thinking, can someone confirm if Fortress Def can be given to staff users? Maybe a use for Azama or something? Wiki says no but someone says he can pass it to a healer, just want to check with someone who actually has a Lukas since the wiki has been wrong before (ex. Savage Blow)

EDIT: hmmm since Oboro has slightly better Res, I wonder if she can use Sacred Cowl then? She'll miss Bonfire damage output though but would the Sacred Cowl protection be enough to separate her from the other infantry lancers?

Theoretically, if she a +Spd/-HP Oboro with Speed +3, Quick Riposte Sacred Cowl, Killer Lance+ and Speed +1 Sacred Seal can survive anything except Arthur, Narcian and Linde. All this Speed is just enough to survive a Minerva and is needed to survive a neutral unboosted Nino.

If you give her B Tomebreaker, then she survives Linde, so she only loses to the natural Lancebreakers. That said losing Quick Riposte means she goes down from 23 Wins to just 1 Win...

Hmm, say you had a bad Hector to sacrifice Distant Counter, then replacing Speed+3 makes Oboro an okay Distant Counter Lance- losing to Nino and Linde. Distant Counter + Quick Riposte gives her 50 wins and 4 Total Losses (those two mages plus Arthur/Narcian)

But she still probably wants Bonfire though...

Edited April 15, 2017 by mcsilas

[Okigen]

Does anyone have suggestion of SI for Navarre? It seems like he will be my only bonus character in the next 2 weeks. I'm reluctant to give him anything 5* exclusive but a Brave Sword+ is possible since I have unused Cain.

Thanks!

[hunty]

48 minutes ago, OKigen said:

Does anyone have suggestion of SI for Navarre? It seems like he will be my only bonus character in the next 2 weeks. I'm reluctant to give him anything 5* exclusive but a Brave Sword+ is possible since I have unused Cain.

Thanks!

His default set isn't too bad. You should place emphasis on compensating for his low Attack with an appropriate A skill. Literally anything works but Life and Death/Death Blow/Fury are probably best.

Then you can give him Reciprocal Aid/Ardent Sacrifice and Moonbow to complete his skill set.

Edited April 15, 2017 by hunty

[MrSmokestack]

14 minutes ago, hunty said:

His default set isn't too bad. You should place emphasis on compensating for his low Attack with an appropriate A skill. Literally anything works but Life and Death/Death Blow/Fury are probably best.

Then you can give him Reciprocal Aid/Ardent Sacrifice and Moonbow to complete his skill set.

If you're using Brave + Desperation, Luna is a straight upgrade over Moonbow due to attacking 4x. I'd say LaD works better with Ardent Sacrifice while Fury can use either or another positioning skill like Repositon.

@OKigen so he can see this.

Edited April 15, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[DehNutCase]

13 hours ago, XaosLogos said:

May I ask for suggestions for Eirika? Mine is -Atk +Res (rather unfortunate a nature).

Eirika is so amazing as a buff-bot that I think she doesn't really need to do anything else. Her sword gives Hone Atk, you can C-skill her for Hone Spd\Def\Res, and assist her for a Rally as well.

Just slap on TA to kill the occasional green (think of Erika as Olivia, basically, usually supporting, sometimes killing Hector).

Edited April 15, 2017 by DehNutCase
Hone, not Spur