Skill Inheritance Discussion.

[NekoKnight]

I was thinking about building a TA Gronraven Cecilia for my horse team. I have 3 copies of her, a +Atk -HP, a +Spd -Def, and a +Spd -Res. What nature would be best?

[Ae†her]

2 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I was thinking about building a TA Gronraven Cecilia for my horse team. I have 3 copies of her, a +Atk -HP, a +Spd -Def, and a +Spd -Res. What nature would be best?

With hone cavalry buff and +Atk - Def you get 75 wins, 12 losses, and with +Spd - Def/-Res you get 78 wins, 9/12 losses. I guess +Spd -Def with hone cavalry buff will allow you to double way more units, so you might like it more, but left by herself a +Atk Cecilia does better, than +Spd. Of course it is up to you and depends on what units you see the most of in arena, and how you play with your team.

[Locke087]

3 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I was thinking about building a TA Gronraven Cecilia for my horse team. I have 3 copies of her, a +Atk -HP, a +Spd -Def, and a +Spd -Res. What nature would be best?

+Spd -Res (-Def hurts raven build) is her best possible IV, for skills raven build you want TA3, Escape Route 3/QR2, and buff of your choice, for the Blade build you want Fury 3, G Tome Breaker 3, and buff of your choice. I just passed multiple builds by Kagero Chart to double check so yes these are the best builds. 

[NekoKnight]

35 minutes ago, Altina said:

With hone cavalry buff and +Atk - Def you get 75 wins, 12 losses, and with +Spd - Def/-Res you get 78 wins, 9/12 losses. I guess +Spd -Def with hone cavalry buff will allow you to double way more units, so you might like it more, but left by herself a +Atk Cecilia does better, than +Spd. Of course it is up to you and depends on what units you see the most of in arena, and how you play with your team.

 

Just now, Locke087 said:

+Spd -Res (-Def hurts raven build) is her best possible IV, for skills raven build you want TA3, Escape Route 3/QR2, and buff of your choice, for the Blade build you want Fury 3, G Tome Breaker 3, and buff of your choice. I just passed multiple builds by Kagero Chart to double check so yes these are the best builds. 

Thanks for the tips. I had figured that the Speed buff was probably more important than attack but I wasn't sure if I should go with -def or -res.

[BANRYU]

On 6/22/2017 at 5:55 AM, Vaximillian said:

I have a 4⋆ [+Spd, −HP] Tharja and [+Def, −Res] Nino, both with Desperation 3. They both also want Fury, correct? And Moonbow as a special?

I also have a 4⋆ [+Atk, −Res] Cecilia with Gronnblade and G Tomebreaker 3. What else does she want (except cavalry buffing teammates)?

Sorry if this advice is unneeded rn, but wanted to throw my 2cents in. 

I somewhat agree with Ice Dragon to where Fury is probably best on Nino for getting into Desp range and whatnot etc. I personally run LnD2 and am happy with it (44 is a pretty untouchable speed tier) but I definitely see the arguments for Fury.

For Tharja, I have +Spd/-Res (not optimal, but decent) and I've been running her default of Darting Blow to decent effect. My current team comp doesn't even have a speed buffer and she usually kills things pretty easily, I find that with Blade boosting her offense so much she usually appreciates the extra speed more than anything else since her speed tier isn't quite as high as other glass cannon mages. Life and Death is certainly good on her, but DB is a slightly more economical option if you're looking to save feathers and I feel it works pretty great.

Luna on Tharja is best proc IMO (that's what I run anyway). Nino honestly doesn't need a proc at all if she's running LnD like mine is, it's basically just to kill things through weapon triangle which IIRC she can do anyway. I would actually advocate going for something unconventional like Growing Wind or Miracle on her (more for TT than anything else since she'll never activate them in Arena), but if you want a straightforward option then Draconic Aura is best IMO (though it's almost always overkill tbh, I got it for the Legion Infernal GHB and even there she didn't need it). 

If it helps at all, my (planned) team comp for these two is: 

• Tharja with Luna, Draw Back, Darting Blow, Desp, and Hone Attack (all maxed)
• Nino with DracAura, Draw BAck, LnD2, Desp, and Hone Attack
• Robin with Repo, Bonfire, TA3, (filler), and Hone Speed (if Olivia isn't present then Robin gets Hone Res seal)
• Dancer (Olivia, who also has Hone Atk + the Hone Res seal) / arena bonus

^ Those four with Abel over Robin was my best team for Tempest, incidentally. (Abel had Hone Def 2 / Cav, Atk+3, and Moonbow aside from his default kit) Highest frequency of perfect AA victories came from this team. If I ever get around to upgrading my Rein I can only imagine how much their success rate would improve. 

 

...I feel like there was other stuff that people had questions on which didn't get addressed, but that was this morning and I can't find it now .-. OTL oh well.... ;; hopefully they got their stuff resolved....??

Edited June 26, 2017 by BANRYU

[TheouAegis]

23 hours ago, XRay said:

Poison Strike/Seal and Savage Blow will be fine on her. If you do not like Savage Blow, then Hones and maybe Spurs are good. For specials, you can run Moonbow so that she can activate it on her third engagement.

Yeah, after I posted this I thought about Savage Blow. I think that's what I'll go with just because I have a spare. I should already have ways of getting her out of harm's way if need be.

[NekoKnight]

So I pulled an Eldigan on the latest banner but unfortunately, he is is -Atk/+HP.

The question is, is this Boon/Bane very harmful? Is Xander (still a 4*) a better Sword Horse?

I'm assuming QR is the most reasonable build for this guy, so another question is, should I give him Bonfire or Ignis with Quickened Pulse? QP let's him trigger Ignis in one round of combat but after that Bonfire would trigger more often.

For what it's worth, his team support is:
Camus: Fortify Cavalry
Ursula: Ward Cavalry.

I could add Elise for a 3rd buff of some kind but I usually plan around including a bonus unit for Arena.
 

Edited June 26, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Xaos Steel Wing]

For Horse Emblem, what would be the best horse buff distribution?
I'm thinking Xander/Camus/Reinhardt/??? - with the last unit being Eldigan or Ursula for now, and eventually Cecilia when I get a good nature.

3 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

So I pulled an Eldigan on the latest banner but unfortunately, he is is -Atk/+HP.

The question is, is this Boon/Bane very harmful? Is Xander (still a 4*) a better Sword Horse?

I'm assuming QR is the most reasonable build for this guy, so another question is, should I give him Bonfire or Ignis with Quickened Pulse? QP let's him trigger Ignis in one round of combat but after that Bonfire would trigger more often.

 

Now that I look at it, Xander and Eldigan are very similar.

But Xander has that ranged counter built in which is so good.

I think Quick Riposte would be good for both as they're both so slow but have good defenses.

Bonfire vs Ignis is a bonus 17 vs 27 damage. With -Atk, that's 62 vs 72 damage. Looking at the mass battle simulator, it doesn't make much of a difference.

With Quickened Pulse + Mistletainn + Ignis, if you give him Quick Riposte as well, consider this: If an enemy attacks him, then he counterattacks, then the 2nd counterattack would activate the Ignis. Which could usually be a waste, as most often that 2nd counterattack should kill many enemies anyway. So that could potentially waste the benefit of having that 1 lower count on the Ignis with Quickened Pulse.

I'm actually wondering myself, I have an Eldigan too and so I'm wondering whether I should promote Xander to 5* or just use Eldigan. I really like the ranged counter on Xander. With Xander + Camus + 2 mages, everyone on the team could counterattack at ranged. With QR on Xander and Camus, all the better, they could take out mages on the counter.

[BestFriendJ0]

So, Cordelia (flier) is getting a huge lift on that tier list, I have one that is +atk -def, and one that is +spd -res. I only have so much SI I can give (at most the 2 version of Fury/L&D/DeB) and I don't have a firesweep lance for her. I'm thinking Death Blow 2, Goad Fliers, and reposition. I'm not exactly sure what to do for the B skill though. Any thoughts?

[BANRYU]

Regarding Xander VS Eldigan debate, I think Xander is pretty safely the better bet. IMO Eldigan would be best if you want to utilize Mystletainn's killer effect alongside Quickened Pulse and maybe Heavy Blade to make Aether/Galeforce more viable or something, and given he's pretty tanky Aether seems like an attractive option. Otherwise, I think Xander is your go-to guy.

2 hours ago, BestFriendJ0 said:

So, Cordelia (flier) is getting a huge lift on that tier list, I have one that is +atk -def, and one that is +spd -res. I only have so much SI I can give (at most the 2 version of Fury/L&D/DeB) and I don't have a firesweep lance for her. I'm thinking Death Blow 2, Goad Fliers, and reposition. I'm not exactly sure what to do for the B skill though. Any thoughts?

The most frequent B-skills I see suggested for brave nukers are Drag Back/Hit and Run, especially good for fliers on maps that let them retreat out of melee range of other units (IE, attacking from the water or a 1-tile thick mountain range and hopping back across the other side to avoid being attacked at 1-range). Also useful is Wings of Mercy, which is especially good (or trollish) on Arena Defense. 

 

EDIT: I'm getting ready to finally build my Oboro (most likely the Wall 'o fire and sharp things build with Killer Ignis QR), and I've been struggling to figure out which A-skill I should be using for her, either in the short term or the long. Fury is an attractive option but that's pretty much only useful for Arena given how it synergizes not very well with QR (being able to use her in TT and stuff would be cool too if possible)...

So... I guess my question is, what WOULD the optimal A-skill be for her? I assume something along the lines of Bun Chrom's Atk/Def+2 would be best if they ever re-release it, but apart from that or other flat stat-boosters, I'm not sure what else would be best. In the short term I guess I'll be shooting for something like HP/Def+ until I can pull a Hinata or something that has AtkDef+2 is released? If it helps, full build otherwise will be Killer+ | Swap | Ignis | ?? | QR2 | Threaten Atk 3.

EDIT AGAIN: Okay I decided to actually run the calcs on this lol and it looks like AtkDef+2 is actually NOT the best option for this build, with Def+3 being better than it and Fury being the best overall. I guess that answers my question then lol. I'll just leave this here in case anyone else wants to build Oboro and happens to see it ;; 

If I manage to get a +Atk Oboro I might switch focus and go for a Brave + Bonfire + Sturdy/Death Blow + QR build instead that seems pretty neat (current Oboro is +Def/-HP)

Edited June 26, 2017 by BANRYU

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

55 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Regarding Xander VS Eldigan debate, I think Xander is pretty safely the better bet. IMO Eldigan would be best if you want to utilize Mystletainn's killer effect alongside Quickened Pulse and maybe Heavy Blade to make Aether/Galeforce more viable or something, and given he's pretty tanky Aether seems like an attractive option. Otherwise, I think Xander is your go-to guy.

The most frequent B-skills I see suggested for brave nukers are Drag Back/Hit and Run, especially good for fliers on maps that let them retreat out of melee range of other units (IE, attacking from the water or a 1-tile thick mountain range and hopping back across the other side to avoid being attacked at 1-range). Also useful is Wings of Mercy, which is especially good (or trollish) on Arena Defense. 

 

EDIT: I'm getting ready to finally build my Oboro (most likely the Wall 'o fire and sharp things build with Killer Ignis QR), and I've been struggling to figure out which A-skill I should be using for her, either in the short term or the long. Fury is an attractive option but that's pretty much only useful for Arena given how it synergizes not very well with QR (being able to use her in TT and stuff would be cool too if possible)...

So... I guess my question is, what WOULD the optimal A-skill be for her? I assume something along the lines of Bun Chrom's Atk/Def+2 would be best if they ever re-release it, but apart from that or other flat stat-boosters, I'm not sure what else would be best. In the short term I guess I'll be shooting for something like HP/Def+ until I can pull a Hinata or something that has AtkDef+2 is released? If it helps, full build otherwise will be Killer+ | Swap | Ignis | ?? | QR2 | Threaten Atk 3.

EDIT AGAIN: Okay I decided to actually run the calcs on this lol and it looks like AtkDef+2 is actually NOT the best option for this build, with Def+3 being better than it and Fury being the best overall. I guess that answers my question then lol. I'll just leave this here in case anyone else wants to build Oboro and happens to see it ;; 

If I manage to get a +Atk Oboro I might switch focus and go for a Brave + Bonfire + Sturdy/Death Blow + QR build instead that seems pretty neat (current Oboro is +Def/-HP)

 

It actually more Eldigan issue is his goat set is expensive(Distant Counter A slot) while Xander issue is him being free

Killer effect is actually pretty cray 

[MrSmokestack]

@BANRYU Echoing @JSND here, Xander is easier to build but Eldigan is better overall when min-maxing. Killer Weapon to stack with Quick Pulse, higher Spd, and comparable Atk and Def. Distant Counter is actually pretty fine as an A Passive versus having to run Siegfried + Heavy Blade on Xander.

[ruruo]

On 6/25/2017 at 9:31 AM, XRay said:

@komasa It is usually better to initiate the attack rather than let the enemy attack you. Player phase and enemy phase builds are very different from each other.

For player phase build against mages, Niles needs +Atk, B. Bow, Luna, L&D, and Breaker. For enemy phase build, he needs +Atk, K. Bow, Iceberg, Fury, and QR.

+Spd is redundant due to Niles' already decent speed, and it does not help Niles much to get more kills nor survive. Distance Defense is not good because it means he is getting less kills, and the less enemies Niles kills, the more likely he will get killed by the ones left alive; in my opinion, increasing survival at the cost of offense is generally a bad idea.

Poison Strike and Savage Blow works on support builds, not on enemy phase builds. FS and C's bow have the same might, so Niles is not going to kill much with either bow. FS allows Niles to apply a single debuff or Poison Strike safely, while C's allows him to apply debuffs and Poison Strike at the same time at the risk of getting counterattacked.

I get what you mean with the Brave Bow build, and initiating an attack. And usually I would wholeheartedly agree with. Just, I feel it's probably least effective on Niles compared to other archers, because even with +atk he'll only have 29 atk which is sad. He's not going to be orkoing as much compared to other archers in the first place, so I'm not so keen in the the Brave Bow/LoD/Desperation direction. I do like having poison strike on him so far, to compensate for the lack of player phase damage.

I like the EP build you've suggested, and also at running a more supportive build. QR, is a really good idea. In terms of Distant Defence, wouldn't the +6 res add to Iceberg during EP too?

For a ranged support/debuffer I might looking into something like:

Weapon Clarisse' Bow+/ Killer Bow+

Assist: a Rally

Special: Iceberg/Glacies

A: Fury

B: Poison strike or Seal Def/Res 

C: Savage Blow or a Hone (or Panic Ploy?)

and probably Hone Res Seal if going for all Hones, or the QP Seal with Poison strike/Savage Blow.

With the Hones I can run him with Odin with Nino, or stick with Poison/Savage for chip damage

I think I'll forgo Firesweep and take the counter attack risk, that way he can counter attack too. With neutral 34 res (37 with Fury, 40 as +Res) it should be alright for magic. 

[DehNutCase]

1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

@BANRYU Echoing @JSND here, Xander is easier to build but Eldigan is better overall when min-maxing. Killer Weapon to stack with Quick Pulse, higher Spd, and comparable Atk and Def. Distant Counter is actually pretty fine as an A Passive versus having to run Siegfried + Heavy Blade on Xander.

Fury & Bonfire with Xander's sword has comparable numbers with Distant Counter and Ignis with Eldigan's sword. Xander does slightly less damage---less wins, and Eldigan is slightly less tanky---more losses. There's simply no reason to go Heavy Blade and Ignis when you can Fury 3 and Bonfire, because Fury 3 adds 6 damage from the extra attack, a bit of extra bulk, and then another 1 or 2 when Bonfire procs. Ignis would add 14 damage when it procs, but Fury 3 Bonfire is only about 6 or 7 damage less, while being more bulky.

Xander's also cheaper with that build.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, komasa said:

I get what you mean with the Brave Bow build, and initiating an attack. And usually I would wholeheartedly agree with. Just, I feel it's probably least effective on Niles compared to other archers, because even with +atk he'll only have 29 atk which is sad. He's not going to be orkoing as much compared to other archers in the first place, so I'm not so keen in the the Brave Bow/LoD/Desperation direction. I do like having poison strike on him so far, to compensate for the lack of player phase damage.

I like the EP build you've suggested, and also at running a more supportive build. QR, is a really good idea. In terms of Distant Defence, wouldn't the +6 res add to Iceberg during EP too?

For a ranged support/debuffer I might looking into something like:

Weapon Clarisse' Bow+/ Killer Bow+

Assist: a Rally

Special: Iceberg/Glacies

A: Fury

B: Poison strike or Seal Def/Res 

C: Savage Blow or a Hone (or Panic Ploy?)

and probably Hone Res Seal if going for all Hones, or the QP Seal with Poison strike/Savage Blow.

With the Hones I can run him with Odin with Nino, or stick with Poison/Savage for chip damage

I think I'll forgo Firesweep and take the counter attack risk, that way he can counter attack too. With neutral 34 res (37 with Fury, 40 as +Res) it should be alright for magic. 

For enemy phase, A Passive should only be Fury or Counter. Since you are going against mages, it should be Fury. Fury gives you consistent +3 damage every hit, and an additional +1 or +2 to Special damage. Distant Defense only gives you +3 on Iceberg damage, whereas Fury gives you +3 (normal damage) and +1 (Iceberg damage) for a total of +4. Fury also gives you speed to avoid being doubled.

For the debuffer role, I totally forgot about Windsweep and Watersweep. You can also use them with C's to simulate FS effect. However Sweeps are B Passives so you would not be able to use Poison Strike or another Seal.

C Passives are entirely up to you. Savage Blow weakens clumps of enemies to make them easier for your glass cannons to knock out. Hones make your teammates stronger and are easier to use. I have not used Panic Ploy yet so I cannot really comment on that.

 

[SaMaster14]

I'm building a Flyer team. Thoughts on a good C-slot and Assist for Catria?

 

Team will consist of: Camilla, Michalis, Caeda, Catria (*I don't have a great mage flyer, so sticking with those 4 for now).

[V-raptor]

1 hour ago, SaMaster14 said:

I'm building a Flyer team. Thoughts on a good C-slot and Assist for Catria?

 

Team will consist of: Camilla, Michalis, Caeda, Catria (*I don't have a great mage flyer, so sticking with those 4 for now).

The only C skills you want are Goad/Hone/Fortify/Ward Fliers for a Flier team.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, SaMaster14 said:

I'm building a Flyer team. Thoughts on a good C-slot

Goad Fliers, Ward Fliers, Hone Fliers, or Fortify Fliers.

 

1 hour ago, SaMaster14 said:

and Assist

Reposition.

 

1 hour ago, SaMaster14 said:

for Catria?

For any flier on a flier team.

 

1 hour ago, SaMaster14 said:

I don't have a great mage flyer

As if there were a choice of mage fliers out there.

[SaMaster14]

Thank you both for the advice!

[Tenzen12]

Almost done with bride Quadelia, but lacking Luna. Fang is better than MB for her right?

 

[MrSmokestack]

2 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Almost done with bride Quadelia, but lacking Luna. Fang is better than MB for her right?

Draconic Aura, since you'll proc it every other round, whereas Fang procs every third round.

Moonbow and Quick Pulse is pretty cute for Arena Defense though.

[MonkeyCheez3K]

So, which 4 horsies are considered the best in full horse emblem teams?

With my main units being completed, I may as well make a horse team if an urgent situation arises when things will inevitably get out of hand, but I will admit, wanting horsies as a last resort only, I never thought about the best composition.

 

My plan is:

Xander: Siegfried, Reposition, Bonfire / Fury3 , QR3 , Goad Cavalry

Cecilia +Att/-HP: Blade, Draw Back, Moonbow (or Draconic Aura ?) / Death Blow 3 (or Life and Death 3?) , G. Tomebreaker , Hone Cavalry

Ursula: Blade, Ardent Sacrifice (or Draw Back) , Moonbow / Life and Death 3 (or Death Blow 3?) , Desperation 3 , Hone Cavalry

Reinhardt (only garbage Boon/Bane combos atm, hopefully I'll pull a +Att someday): Dire, Draw Back or Reposition, Moonbow + Pulse / Death Blow 3, Wings of Mercy 3 , Fortify Cavalry

 

Anyone already abusing the hell out of horses to tell me if I can significantly optimize this?

Edited July 1, 2017 by MonkeyCheez3K
Fortify, not Ward Cavalry

[MrSmokestack]

@MonkeyCheez3K If you're running Blárblade and Gronnblade then you should definitely remove Ward Cavalry in favor of Fortify Cavalry. Goad stacking is effective though I prefer running 2 Fortify on Reinhardt and Ursula and 2 Hone on Xander and Cecilia.

The rest of your sets look great though, aside from using Moonbow over Draconic Aura on Cecilia.

[MonkeyCheez3K]

3 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

@MonkeyCheez3K If you're running Blárblade and Gronnblade then you should definitely remove Ward Cavalry in favor of Fortify Cavalry. Goad stacking is effective though I prefer running 2 Fortify on Reinhardt and Ursula and 2 Hone on Xander and Cecilia.

The rest of your sets look great though, aside from using Moonbow over Draconic Aura on Cecilia.

Good, not too far off, though admittedly, Horse Emblem probably ain't rocket science. The Ward Cavalry was a mistake of mine, it should have been what you suggest, Fortify Cavalry.

I also thought about two Fortify/Hone each, but was wondering if one Goad wouldn't be best for when you need that extra edge while still having the option to buff at least one Bladetome to its maximum potential. I'll probably inherit both to be sure.

Cecilia with Moonbow does make more sense, I can agree. Being only one shot, I thought about maxing out the damage, but one attack more on the CD charging is kinda too much, I guess.

Also, do people prefer Ursula or Olwen for Blárblade (Getting Olwen is another story)?

Thanks for the input.

[XRay]

@Tenzen12 and @MrSmokestack Luna is better than Draconic Aura in my opinion. They are the same if B!Cordelia and the enemy are both unmerged. But if unmerged B!Cordelia is facing against merged +10 enemies, Luna scores a few more kills than Draconic Aura. Against enemies with +Def, Luna will always get more kills. Against +HP they are both the same.

I find Luna to be better than Draconic Aura in most scenarios. Enemies with low Defense will be killed with either Special; all Draconic Aura does is ensure overkill. Enemies with higher Defense is weaker to Luna than Draconic Aura.

51 minutes ago, MonkeyCheez3K said:

Also, do people prefer Ursula or Olwen for Blárblade (Getting Olwen is another story)?

They perform identically if they are buffed with Hone and Fortify Cavalry. Unbuffed, Olwen [+Atk, -Res] does better.

Edited July 1, 2017 by XRay