Racial Diversity in FE

[Interdimensional Observer]

Can we please make a distinction between North African and Sub-Saharan African? I mean as someone who is literally studying history, I acknowledge the Sahara has not been an impenetrable barrier to contact between that to its north and that to its south, but it is nonetheless a meaningful distinction.

[Extrasolar]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Can we please make a distinction between North African and Sub-Saharan African? I mean as someone who is literally studying history, I acknowledge the Sahara has not been an impenetrable barrier to contact between that to its north and that to its south, but it is nonetheless a meaningful distinction.

You're correct. I was referring to North Africa (specifically Egypt, due to how culturally relevant it was to the Greeks and Romans) in my earlier posts, rather than Sub-Saharan.

[Thor Odinson]

7 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Let me guess: Those are the same people that think all anime characters are white (even though they clearly have Japanese names and live in Japan)? Argh. Yeah, that's frustrating as hell. Luckily I haven't run into many of them as of late, and none dense enough to call the clearly Japanese analogues from Hoshido white. Seems like a lot of the time people want stereotypical depictions of other races in order to make them believe that "x" is non-white, and that's ridiculous.

Yep, those motherfuckers. Very fortunate they're fairly uncommon. Always frustrating to run into one.

[Slumber]

22 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

FE4 is pretty Irish + Nordic in naming, but everything culturally in Sacae points to Mongol and yet we get Rath, Sue, and Guy as names. Names don't mean too much it seems--except Hoshido because that's Japanese people doing Japanese people things. 

I don't think Isaach necessarily has to be East Asian, but the clothing styles--esp Shanan and Ayra--somewhat resemble Qi Pao-esque robes to me. Now I am Chinese so I clearly have China bias, but I do like seeing things that resemble things in my culture.

That being said Middle Eastern Issach would also be cool. It's not as clear cut in that case as Hoshido, certainly.

Yeah, Isaach clearly has a lot of influences going into its design, but Jugdral generally seems to be based very heavily on northern Europe. Ireland and Scotland tend to get brought in with Scandinavia when it comes to series that try to portray fictional versions of northern Europe. But yeah, lots of forestry, mountains, cold climates, damn near water and rivers every two tiles, and folk hero names from all across Scandinavia being thrown around, with Isaach bringing the Irish in for good measure. Barring Lachesis, who is a Greek figure, Jugdral's got a lot of northern Europe going on.

... just so long as we ignore those two deserts in Jugdral...

I just like looking at the names, themes, imagery and map designs of the games to try to contextualize just exactly where IS drew inspiration for each of the FE continents, since while it's all vaguely European, there are bits and pieces to pick up. The Sacaens will always be a weird one, because Elibe seems to be pretty Arthurian and mid-European/British, and while Mongols had a presence in Europe, they never went past Poland, at least not in any meaningful capacity.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Slumber

[Thor Odinson]

Just now, Slumber said:

Yeah, Isaach clearly has a lot of influences going into its design, but Jugdral generally seems to be based very heavily on northern Europe. Ireland and Scotland tend to get brought in with Scandinavia when it comes to series that try to portray fictional versions of northern Europe. But yeah, lots of forestry, mountains, cold climates, damn near water and rivers every two tiles, and folk hero names from all across Scandinavia being thrown around, with Isaach bringing the Irish in for good measure. Barring Lachesis, who is a Greek figure, Jugdral's got a lot of northern Europe going on.

... just so long as we ignore those two deserts in Jugdral...

I just like looking at the names, themes, imagery and map designs of the games to try to contextualize just exactly where IS drew inspiration for each of the FE continents. The Sacaens will always be a weird one, because Elibe seems to be pretty Arthurian and mid-Europe/British, and while Mongols had a presence in Europe, they never went past Poland.

I mean, Nohr and Hoshido has Nohr to the north of Hoshido and Hoshido being this huge landmass that is clearly not small island nation Japan. FE geography has always been a weird mishmash of things. 

I tend to look at character design and clothing more than geography and names--because names really don't mean a thing in FE-land. The only names they can get consistent from a national origin pov (in terms of matching to culture) is their own. Nohrian names tend to be a European mishmash than any one clear european country, while Hoshido, barring the tribes, was very clear cut Japanese.

[Jotari]

31 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Isaach, oddly enough, has gotten more IRISH over the years. The country is basically samurais, but Shannon is an Irish name, Holyn's name is officially Cu Chulainn, an Irish folk hero, Ulster(Ayra's son) is a region of Ireland. Galzus has a Celtic root in his name. All of the Isaach males have explicitly Irish names. Ayra and Larcei are completely made up.

I'd take names with a grain of salt. It's more east Jugdral overall. All the areas in Leinster are named after Irish locations too. I wouldn't particularly describe any of the landscape or dress as Irish in Isaac. Leinster itself I would though with it's much more green and bountiful lands (and actually coming to think of it the more barren and rocky regions of South Thracia could easily resemble the poorer, more mountainous west of Ireland). It's shame more games don't take inspiration from Irish mythology because there's a lot of fun stuff in there.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

... just so long as we ignore those two deserts in Jugdral...

Uh two deserts? Yied is the first, but what is the second? Orgahill? Might that just be wastelands?

And on Elibe, Nabata is a clear reference to the Middle Eastern Nabataeans- a civilization that flourished for a few hundred years in some arid valleys 'til the water supplies were hit hard and it was abandoned, leaving behind some pretty tombs. And is Ilia Russia? If it is, Sacae would make sense, seeing how the Mongols/Tatars did exercise influence over Russia for some time until Moscow unified and liberated the country.

[Slumber]

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Uh two deserts? Yied is the first, but what is the second? Orgahill? Might that just be wastelands?

And on Elibe, Nabata is a clear reference to the Middle Eastern Nabataeans- a civilization that flourished for a few hundred years in some arid valleys 'til the water supplies were hit hard and it was abandoned, leaving behind some pretty tombs. And is Ilia Russia? If it is, Sacae would make sense, seeing how the Mongols/Tatars did exercise influence over Russia for some time until Moscow unified and liberated the country.

Phinora, just outside Velthomer, is a small desert.

[Tetragrammaton]

Just now, Slumber said:

Phinora, just outside Velthomer, is a small desert.

Isn't it still part of Yied?

[Jotari]

16 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Yeah, Isaach clearly has a lot of influences going into its design, but Jugdral generally seems to be based very heavily on northern Europe. Ireland and Scotland tend to get brought in with Scandinavia when it comes to series that try to portray fictional versions of northern Europe. But yeah, lots of forestry, mountains, cold climates, damn near water and rivers every two tiles, and folk hero names from all across Scandinavia being thrown around, with Isaach bringing the Irish in for good measure. Barring Lachesis, who is a Greek figure, Jugdral's got a lot of northern Europe going on.

... just so long as we ignore those two deserts in Jugdral...

I just like looking at the names, themes, imagery and map designs of the games to try to contextualize just exactly where IS drew inspiration for each of the FE continents, since while it's all vaguely European, there are bits and pieces to pick up. The Sacaens will always be a weird one, because Elibe seems to be pretty Arthurian and mid-European/British, and while Mongols had a presence in Europe, they never went past Poland, at least not in any meaningful capacity.

Altena 's a greek figure too. Unless her name isn't actually based on Athena which is what I'd immediately assume. I'd also reckon the actual lack of desert stuff in Chapter 6 of Holy War has more to do with gameplay then a depiction of what t he country is meant to be like given the people we see coming from there...Then again Galzus does wear fur which probably wouldn't be in vogue in the kind of region I'm envisioning. At least not in the manner he wears it so *shrug* Can we call changing or clarifying social diversity in past Fire Emblem the Gaiden Factor? I'd love if that caught on. I'd like to see Isaac received the Gaiden Factor.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Jotari

[Slumber]

Just now, hanhnn said:

Isn't it still part of Yied?

You are completely right. Since Phinora and Yied are in two separate chapters that don't follow one another, I just never realized.

[Slumber]

8 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Altena 's a greek figure too. Unless her name isn't actually based on Athena which is what I'd immediately assume. I'd also reckon the actual lack of desert stuff in Chapter 6 of Holy War has more to do with gameplay then a depiction of what t he country is meant to be like given the people we see coming from there...Then again Galzus does wear fur which probably wouldn't be in vogue in the kind of region I'm envisioning. At least not in the manner he wears it so *shrug* Can we call changing or clarifying social diversity in Fire Emblem the Gaiden Factor? I'd love if that caught on. I'd like to see Isaac received the Gaiden Factor.

Isaach is one of the more interesting countries in FE4/FE5, and it doesn't get a whole lot of focus. Personally, I'd prefer to see it expanded when FE4/5 gets a remake. It'd be easy to put Galzus in gen 1 of FE4 as a much younger man, and you could even show the events of the Isaach/Rivough civil war, with Galzus falling out with the head royal family of Isaach, his wife dying(Probably, I don't think we ever know what happened to her), and Mareeta being stolen. Some of the timeline would have to change, but it'd help give Isaach more focus, and it'd more clearly explain why Galzus was basically a bitter hellhound throughout FE5.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Slumber

[Jotari]

6 minutes ago, Slumber said:

You are completely right. Since Phinora and Yied are in two separate chapters that don't follow one another, I just never realized.

Too big to imbed but I'm just going to provide a link to this in case anyone else has never seen how cool Jugdral's maps are

2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Isaach is one of the more interesting countries in FE4/FE5, and it doesn't get a whole lot of focus. Personally, I'd prefer to see it expanded when FE4/5 gets a remake. It'd be easy to put Galzus in gen 1 of FE4, and you could even show the events of the Isaach/Rivough civil war, with Galzus falling out with the head royal family of Isaach, his wife dying, and Mareeta being stolen. Some of the timeline would have to change, but it'd help give Isaach more focus, and it'd more clearly explain why Galzus was basically a bitter hellhound throughout FE5.

I think the best way to go about that without interfering with the current story would be to make a Generation Zero where you play as Byron during he invasion and interact with all the older figures that were important at the time like Ring and Reptor. It would also let us finally see Prince Kurth.

[Extrasolar]

Okay, so how many non-white/non-European coded/inspired characters have we even gotten over the series' run? Let's see. Speaking of the playable ones here.

Basilio, Danved/Devdan, Ulster, Fiona, Larcei, Shannan, Galzus, Shiva, Mareeta, Ayra, Flavia, Lon'qu, Say'ri, Rath, Lyn (biracial, she counts), Sue, Dayan, Shin, Boey and Gray... I might be missing people, but that's all right off the top of my head.

Hoshido added a bunch of characters in, all Japanese-coded. While that's a great thing, I think we need more characters coded from other cultures too.
 

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

*shrug* Can we call changing or clarifying social diversity in past Fire Emblem the Gaiden Factor? I'd love if that caught on. I'd like to see Isaac received the Gaiden Factor.

I'll vote for this, haha.

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I think the best way to go about that without interfering with the current story would be to make a Generation Zero where you play as Byron during he invasion and interact with all the older figures that were important at the time like Ring and Reptor. It would also let us finally see Prince Kurth.

Me likely the idea! BS FE/Hidden Truths styled battles that add to the characters we already have, villains and tragic heroes alike. Let's not forget Prince Maricle, brother to Ayra and father of Shannan, he deserves some development.

I believe I had a take on this lying around. Oh, here it is!

Spoiler

The Issach Campaign: King Manaan has been assassinated before he could explain that the attack on Darna was not done by Issach. Prince Maricle, his son and sister sent away to hopeful safety, has no choice now but to lead Issach’s army against the overwhelming power of Grannvale. As Prince Maricle, somehow guide Issach’s forces through what seems like an inevitable defeat. This is a four-part campaign, and in each portion the player controls Maricle and generic Issach officers as they try to protect Issach from Grannvale. Part 1- Interception in Yied. Part 2- Holding Rivough. Part 3- Defending Sophara and Issach. Part 4- Last Stand at Ganeishire. Complete all the objectives given while not meeting the failure conditions. This may be a lost battle, but you must show it was not without a struggle.

• Issach’s army is Sword-master and Hero heavy, but it does have some of every kind of unit save fliers too. On the topic of fliers, Maricle has managed to quickly purchase the assistance of a mercenary troop of Silesse Pegasus Knights, and another of Thracian Dragon Knights. Grounded mercenaries from Miletos and the Manster District have also been bought by Maricle
• The enemy is Grannvale’s finest in full force, and includes nearly all of its rulers. Prince Kurth, Byron, Ring, his son Andrei, Leptor, Rangobart, all of them are enemy commanders. Some hold only contempt for the Issachans, others, namely the noble Byron, Ring, and Kurth, respect the Issachans. 
  • Prince Kurth is the overall enemy commander, a Sage who for the most part, for security’s sake, stays well behind the frontline. The Royal Grannvale forces and the Velthomer regiments are in his command.
  • Rangobart’s Dozel forces form half of the Central Grannvale Army. Duke Leptor’s army is the other half of the Central Grannvale Army. 
  • Duke Ring leads the Tirnanog attack, while his son Andrei is part of the main invasion force, a highly mobile part. 
  • Duke Byron and his Green Knights are placed at the van of the Grannvale forces, frequently bearing the brunt of the Issachan attacks. Most of Chalphy’s army is with him, few (~20%) were left with Sigurd.
• Maricle’s Plan and the Campaign’s History
  • Maricle’s first move is to keep Grannvale’s huge army from ever reaching Issach- to crush it slogged down in Yied Desert. Unfortunately, while this is able to delay Grannvale for a month or two and inflict not-insignificant casualties, Grannvale’s army is still too strong, too big, and grows resilient to the attacks. 
  • Grannvale then reaches the borders of Issach and sends the main force to take Rivough, while a secondary moves towards Tirnanog. Maricle arranges his well-prepared army to meet the enemy at Rivough, dedicating less attention to Tirnanog. Maricle also prepares a naval attack with Issach’s fleet, it will strike the rearguard of the enemy. Weathering constant attacks, the eroded Issach Army eventually is forced to cede Rivough, and begins a withdrawal to Sophara and Issach. But just as Rivough begins to crumble, the naval forces make their successful landing behind enemy lines. Boldly, Maricle pushes to quickly reclaim Rivough and force the enemy back into the desert while the enemy is in disarray. This is the height of Issach’s glories during the battle, but Grannvale is just too strong. Though the Grannvale Army is almost pushed fully into the desert again, a ferocious defense by Dozel and Freege, a rebuttal of the naval forces by the calm and brilliant Prince Kurth himself, and a new offensive by the swift Andrei and Byron, all of these things undo any hope for victory by Issach. The offensive recaptures Rivough, and Issach is unable to reclaim it, the survivors of the naval assault return to Issach Castle.
    • At this point, Byron considers a truce with Issach, they have clearly lost the day and have been dealt a decisive blow. Prince Kurth agrees, as would Duke Ring when he hears the news no doubt. Dukes Leptor and Rangobart, plus Andrei, disagree, and demand the attack continue, Rivough will not be enough compensation for sacrilege. Maricle is too strong to be left unchecked, we must capture him before negotiations open. Prince Kurth approves of limited further action, capture either Sophara or Issach Castle, either will leave the remainder of Issach indefensible and force Maricle to come to the bargaining table. 
  • Maricle is disheartened to see his plan fail, but he must rally once more, he cannot give in just yet. Grannvale is moving on Sophara and Issach Castle, they cannot be allowed to fall. Deal Grannvale a strong blow again, and perhaps they will consider negotiating a peace. Issach should be easier to take, but they will still be aiming for Sophara. Destroy either force, and stall the other, and the victory we can get will be ours.
    • Grannvale’s strategy is as such: Sophara is defended by hills and mountains, send our Pegasus Knight mercenaries with about half of the Freege-Dozel forces to take it. To Issach, put Andrei and Byron in command, the remainder of Freege-Dozel will follow them. Royal Grannvale and Velthomer forces will occupy Rivough and provide support where needed. Maricle is able to put the hurt on Andrei’s forces, and Byron feels it as well. Sophara is successfully protected and Grannvale is forced to pull out of the mountains. By this time however, Grannvale has built ballistae in Rivough and is safe from aerial attack. Furthermore, the air war, while successful, has damaged some of Issach’s air force, enough that it can no longer take the offensive. Grannvale then decides to abandon the Sophara attack, and pour everything on Issach Castle.
  • Maricle realizes Issach Castle is doomed, and Rivough is totally unassailable. Word then comes that Tirnanog is soon to fall. It is too late to vanquish Duke Ring’s army and sue for peace on those terms. Without Tirnanog, a rump Issach of Ganeishire, Tirnanog, and Sophara is not possible. Now, all of Issach is lost. There is little point in continuing to fight. Maricle asks Byron for peace towards the people of Issach in exchange for his surrendering of himself to Grannvale. Byron approves the request, but Andrei rides up and ruins the moment by attacking Issach’s forces indiscriminately. Byron apologizes, he will see to it that Prince Kurth enforces peace towards the people of Issach, but unfortunately, unsavory elements in Grannvale’s army stand in the way. Your life is destined to end soon Maricle, you can die having surrendered yourself, or you die a warrior. Destined to be a martyr regardless, the method is your’s to choose. 
  • Maricle contemplates the words of Byron, and he knows which path is his. Maricle orders that anyone unwilling to become martyrs immediately desert and return to civilian life. All who will follow him to certain death, he orders to gather in Ganeishire for the last stand. There, as Grannvale shatters the defenses and floods in, Maricle dies wielding Balmung in combat. Thus ends the Issach Campaign, guerrilla warfare endures in Issach, but Grannvale can now focus on occupation.

 

[Topaz Light]

By my count, the Fire Emblem series as a whole has just about six hundred cast members in playable characters alone as of this writing, and that's not even getting into antagonists and NPCs. I am absolutely for more racial diversity in Fire Emblem, both because I think there are a lot of people who would be really happy to see people who are like them in that regard represented, and because, with a cumulative cast that huge, Fire Emblem needs every venue for differentiating character designs it can get.

Also, in regards to Echoes changing the skin tones of some people from Gaiden, even Gaiden wasn't consistent with the characters' designs. There are two sources of official artwork, and those two plus the in-game sprites would often give at least two takes on a given character's appearance between them, if not three. Not to mention that one of the sources of official art was pretty much Sameface Samehair Double-Bonanza and thus really should not be used as a frame of reference when trying to revamp the cast's designs. I can kinda understand being bugged by inconsistency—this is the third hair color Boey has had, for example—but I honestly find it very hard to see it as a bad thing to change the skin tones of decades-old characters whose designs were only vaguely-defined to begin with.

And, just gonna give my two cents on this, but I'm pretty sure neither Boey nor Gray are "tanned"—at least not in the sense that one would "get a tan"; I'm almost certain that's just supposed to be their normal, biological skin tones. As to what real-life ethnicity/race they'd correspond to, though, I couldn't really say. It's largely up to each player how they want to see them, I'd think. I tend to see them as being of darker-skinned Mediterranean or perhaps Latinx heritage, personally, but it's hardly for me to dictate or anything.

All things considered, I'm quite fond of most of the redesigns, personally, especially how Hidari differentiated Alm's original three Villager buddies from each other way better than just having them each be slightly-different edits of the same base sprite. Also, in my opinion, Echoes!Boey's probably got one of the raddest designs of any Mage in the series, not gonna lie.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Topaz Light

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Oof, after looking at the world of comics, I can imagine some backlash from fans if they did it to older, established characters. They would explain away their frustrations by accusing the developers of betraying the original vision. Then they'd pull up sales figures as a way of tying in the existence of "SJW shit" to slightly lowered sales. Or maybe we'll all just be cool with it. Fire Emblem doesn't take place in our world with our cultures and religions, so we won't have to see racist backlash from the portrayal of a Jewish or Muslim character like we see in live action media. The Laguz in the Tellius series is a pretty well written analogue for racial prejudice, much like how Marvel comics tackled these subjects with their X-Men franchise which exploded in popularity in part to how many people from different backgrounds could relate to the narrative.

I'm certain IS was very interested to see where darker skinned characters ranked in the popularity poll as a way of testing the waters. Maybe the next Avatar we see can have different skin tones. I saw them do it with Pokemon, even if non white players had to choose between only "Cuban" and "Zimbabwean". Racial diversity for new games is a definite yes if, for nothing else, than to make characters look visually distinct without tapping into new hair and eye colors that just don't match. Anything in an anime art style inherently struggles in this regard. I remember when the Fates cinematic trailers dropped and some of the more casually observant FE fans asked if Azura was Lucina, if Hinoka was Sully, and if Elise was Lissa. Racial diversity in another "Echoes" game will be more of a risk. Since FE2 by far had the least official artwork of any other game for outraged fans to pull up as references. 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Okay, so how many non-white/non-European coded/inspired characters have we even gotten over the series' run? Let's see. Speaking of the playable ones here.

Basilio, Danved/Devdan, Ulster, Fiona, Larcei, Shannan, Galzus, Shiva, Mareeta, Ayra, Flavia, Lon'qu, Say'ri, Rath, Lyn (biracial, she counts), Sue, Dayan, Shin, Boey and Gray... I might be missing people, but that's all right off the top of my head.

Hoshido added a bunch of characters in, all Japanese-coded. While that's a great thing, I think we need more characters coded from other cultures too.
 

I'll vote for this, haha.

Athena from Shadow Dragon looks pretty Asian...Even though she speaks with some kind of weird Russian stereotype accent...Was that there in the original?

39 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

Oof, after looking at the world of comics, I can imagine some backlash from fans if they did it to older, established characters. They would explain away their frustrations by accusing the developers of betraying the original vision. Then they'd pull up sales figures as a way of tying in the existence of "SJW shit" to slightly lowered sales. Or maybe we'll all just be cool with it. Fire Emblem doesn't take place in our world with our cultures and religions, so we won't have to see racist backlash from the portrayal of a Jewish or Muslim character like we see in live action media. The Laguz in the Tellius series is a pretty well written analogue for racial prejudice, much like how Marvel comics tackled these subjects with their X-Men franchise which exploded in popularity in part to how many people from different backgrounds could relate to the narrative.

I'm certain IS was very interested to see where darker skinned characters ranked in the popularity poll as a way of testing the waters. Maybe the next Avatar we see can have different skin tones. I saw them do it with Pokemon, even if non white players had to choose between only "Cuban" and "Zimbabwean". Racial diversity for new games is a definite yes if, for nothing else, than to make characters look visually distinct without tapping into new hair and eye colors that just don't match. Anything in an anime art style inherently struggles in this regard. I remember when the Fates cinematic trailers dropped and some of the more casually observant FE fans asked if Azura was Lucina, if Hinoka was Sully, and if Elise was Lissa. Racial diversity in another "Echoes" game will be more of a risk. Since FE2 by far had the least official artwork of any other game for outraged fans to pull up as references. 

I think choosing Skin Tone definitely should have been an option for the Avatar starting with Awakening. Not for the sake of racial diversity but because Robin's father simply aint white. I'm not sure what he is but that's not the sort of complexion I'd expect from Robin's father. The mother must have been super white to compensate. Course this is also the same game that gave us a full on African black dude from what's basically Siberia and paired him with a scantly clad dancer (once again, in Siberia!)

Edited March 16, 2017 by Jotari

[WyvernSurfer]

I wouldn't mind some racial diversity but I'm not too sure about changing established designs. In any case, this isn't that much of a change. Valentia seems to have Greco-Latin flavor (Celica's music and Greek vase designs, for example) so it's no surprise that there are dark, "Mediterranean-looking" characters.

On a similar topic, given how well Hoshidan aesthetics/classes were handled in Fates, I'd love if they'd experiment more with other cultures. Like "Hussar" from a polish-inspired culture or "Eagle Knight" from an Aztec-inspired one.

Edited March 16, 2017 by WyvernSurfer

[Tetragrammaton]

Soon we gonna have a black, or LGBT Avatar like we have black female Iron Man or black Human Torch.

[L9999]

2 minutes ago, WyvernSurfer said:

I wouldn't mind some racial diversity but I'm not too sure about changing established designs. In any case, this isn't that much of a change. Valentia seems to have Greco-Latin flavor (Celica's music and Greek vase designs, for example) so it's no surprise that there are dark, "Mediterranean-looking" characters.

On a similar topic, given how well Hoshidan aesthetics/classes were handled in Fates, I'd love if they'd experiment more with other cultures. Like "Hussar" from a polish-inspired culture or "Eagle Knight" from an Aztec-inspired one.

Established designs my shoelaces, nobody in Gaiden had a consistent artwork. The characters are also from freaking 1992, in that time no one did artwork for anything, and if it existed it looked either stupid or bland. 

[Extrasolar]

31 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I think choosing Skin Tone definitely should have been an option for the Avatar starting with Awakening. Not for the sake of racial diversity but because Robin's father simply aint white.

Why not just for the sake of racial diversity? I mean, that should be a thing, for fans to see themselves represented in the media they consume imo. (And yeah, I was really disappointed with the lack of skin tone continuity from Awakening. You're telling me I can hook my Robin up with Basilio, and Morgan comes out as pale as ever? Yeahh... You failed me, IS.)

31 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Athena from Shadow Dragon looks pretty Asian...Even though she speaks with some kind of weird Russian stereotype accent...Was that there in the original?

Oh, right! I'd forgotten about her. I don't think the accent was a thing in the original, but I could be wrong. Japanese accents/dialects are much different than English accents, so she may have had a unique dialect and they "adapted" it to a Russian accent, or it could have been there just to reflect her coming from the northern frontierlands of Archanea.

1 hour ago, Gustavos said:

Oof, after looking at the world of comics, I can imagine some backlash from fans if they did it to older, established characters. They would explain away their frustrations by accusing the developers of betraying the original vision. Then they'd pull up sales figures as a way of tying in the existence of "SJW shit" to slightly lowered sales.

I say, so what? If the butthurt fans can't handle people in games that don't always look like them 100% of the time, then we're better off without them. Stuff like a lot of the new Marvel comics and more diverse films have attracted huge audiences interested in seeing representations of themselves on screen, so the whiny bigots can go shove it if they don't like it, quite frankly.

1 hour ago, Gustavos said:

Maybe the next Avatar we see can have different skin tones. I saw them do it with Pokemon, even if non white players had to choose between only "Cuban" and "Zimbabwean".

100% for more skin tones for an Avatar, and more varied than the ones we got in Pokemon too.

6 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

Soon we gonna have a black, or LGBT Avatar like we have black female Iron Man or black Human Torch.

And this is a bad thing, how...?

Also. We already have a possible LGBT Avatar. Corrin of Fates can be gay or bi if you romance Rhajat or Niles.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Jotari]

10 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Why not just for the sake of racial diversity? I mean, that should be a thing, for fans to see themselves represented in the media they consume imo. (And yeah, I was really disappointed with the lack of skin tone continuity from Awakening. You're telling me I can hook my Robin up with Basilio, and Morgan comes out as pale as ever? Yeahh... You failed me, IS.)

Oh I have no problem doing it for the sake of diversity, it's just the fact that there's a blatant contradiction in appearances bothers me more than European looking people being the only people in a European inspired setting.

[Tetragrammaton]

36 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

And this is a bad thing, how...?

Also. We already have a possible LGBT Avatar. Corrin of Fates can be gay or bi if you romance Rhajat or Niles.

I've never say it's bad, in fact, it could be very interesting if it's well written.

Let's say, this time, Viktor was a gay that could not satisfy his wife so she need another man, Alvis/Validar/Nergal simply just need an heir to the throne without any love for the woman he f*** (or feel disgusting every time he has to do the reproducing process) .....

Years of practice with fire (or should it be black) magic finally got their skin burnt and it all turn into black...

That could be interesting.

Edited March 16, 2017 by hanhnn

[WyvernSurfer]

5 hours ago, L9999 said:

Established designs my shoelaces, nobody in Gaiden had a consistent artwork. The characters are also from freaking 1992, in that time no one did artwork for anything, and if it existed it looked either stupid or bland. 

Fair enough. The old portraits and designs do belong in the trash.