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SullyMcGully

Racial Diversity in FE

116 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, Lord Tullus said:

Dear lord, what is this?  I came here and started to find interesting discussion in the first page, and was inclined to offer my opinion, how ever small it may be.  Then page 2 came along, and oh boy, I tried to skim, but...  this is just a little much for just some simple skin tone changes, right?  I mean, it doesn't really matter.  While we are here arguing about the representation of fictional characters, real people in the real world are still being mistreated for the most petty reasons.

To be honest, I'm glad that Mr. TryHard remembered that Garret exists.  People usually forget about him.  What were we "talking" about again?  Oh, right.  Racial/cultural diversity in a fictional game series... really?  In my opinion, it doesn't matter.  Race shouldn't matter in the first place in real life, but society already makes my opinions look like crap.  I just think we should appreciate that these characters are getting a redesign at all, and call it a day.  (Boey is the best mage because he knows fire magic)

I have to agree with this. race, gender, sexuality and whatever really shouldn't matter since at the end of the day, we are all just people and the more we talk about how different they are the more we 'other' them, as people say (God I hate that phrase though). As long as a character is well written and has a reason for existing and does things that help the plot cool, that's all you need.

However, of coarse since we probably wont live in that kind of world for a long time, I'm of the belief that if you want more representation, make your own characters that have a good reason for existing, and do things for the plot and have a decent character, there is absolutely no need to change another characters race, gender, sexuality for the sake of diversity, nor should you just add in a character for the sake of diversity and have them be an uninteresting character. Now, I don't mind the likes of Boey, Grey or Kamui being changed since they had so little influence on the plot originally that it really doesn't change anything.

So yeah that's just my opinion on things, now I'm going to leave and probably not come back.

Edited by Azz

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I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been locked after the places it went.

"No FE story would change by having a nonwhite protagonist, since FE is not about race. Would making Ike black suddenly make the game not about him defeating Ashnard and saving Crimea, or defeating Ashera and saving all of Tellius? Would the game have to stop and say "hold on, Ike, you're not white. We have to make the story about this now!""

Ike is already an established character with an established appearance and an established story. There is no point to changing him like that. Same thing with all the other characters. They already have their established appearances so why change them? Just to please some people who want diversity? That's dumb.

The character designers and/or art directors of the previous games decided on how they wanted the older characters to look so just keep them as is.

If you want diversity in a new title then fine but don't ask for what is already done to be changed unless the characters, like in Gaiden, weren't really defined in the first place.

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On 3/18/2017 at 1:21 PM, Retyl said:

"No FE story would change by having a nonwhite protagonist, since FE is not about race. Would making Ike black suddenly make the game not about him defeating Ashnard and saving Crimea, or defeating Ashera and saving all of Tellius?

Err, well it WOULD change if you made specifically Ike black. We would be debating whether it's coincidence that Ike is both the first black protagonist and the first non-noble. And with no other black men in Tellius that have status, the question is this: Are there no black men of status in Tellius because the people there are racist, or is IS being racist by asserting this as propaganda through their writing? Given that the story is written by Japanese people, an exclusive culture of people who likely live their long lives without meeting a single black person, we would probably argue the latter unless the script were changed where somebody remarks on Ike being black -affirming that human races exist in Tellius. Plus since the Laguz prejudice is already the established analogue for racism in the Tellius series, having a black protagonist round up the many races around the continent would still be powerful, but also fairly exploitative. We would end up with some very divisive discussion regarding what everybody believes is the most tasteful way to have written Ike's race into the plot. With current Tellius, everybody's pretty much in agreement that the Laguz are a non-offensive way of telling a story about race, much like in the X-men. They're different, and people react negatively to them out of fear.

If it were any other lord, being non-white would probably cause no issue, none that come to my mind anyhow.

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I wonder what makes SJWs so into conspiracies. They honestly sound like Nazi sympathizers who blame the Jews for whatever.

Who the hell thought it was a good idea to post fucking tumblr? Especially from a crackpot who produced no peer reviewed work that was academially published. For more on this:

 

 

And for the record, the Moors were largely West Eurasian North African invaders like modern day Morrocans and Libyans. This is shown from contemporary artwork during Islamic Spain's era and genetics. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/1z1kym/africans_were_exploring_america_thousands_of/

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
These links talk about the Moors and have an investigation of the tumblrina called Medieval People of Color.

 

Edited by Salamud

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I think I saw something about how it makes sense most characters are white because the game is based off Europe or something, but don't forget that Fire Emblem games take place in their own land. It doesn't matter if the games take inspiration from our world in terms of design, it still is it's own thing, so I don't think talking about that kinda stuff matters at all.

Anyways I mostly skimmed pages two, three and I didn't bother reading page four. But my two cents is that it honestly doesn't matter because they've all gone through redesigns before and the side characters (a.k.a. not Alm, Celica and the whitewing sisters) really don't seem to be set-in-stone. Also I definitely don't believe Nintendo makes characters "racially diverse" for the sake of it, judging by them never even talking about race like, ever. (unlike other companies, namely American ones)

I am curious though. are people actually bothered by this? Like, genuinely? I'm pretty sure most people in say, Japan, could care less. It's like the whole "Soleil controversy." I mean, they flat-out made fun of the over-sensitive westerners for that. I don't see all the "non-white" people in Japan getting upset by this stuff. I'm pretty sure it's literally the "majority" group getting upset for the "minority" group in these western countries. I dunno... just kinda feels that way...

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1 hour ago, SuperIb said:

I think I saw something about how it makes sense most characters are white because the game is based off Europe or something, but don't forget that Fire Emblem games take place in their own land. It doesn't matter if the games take inspiration from our world in terms of design, it still is it's own thing, so I don't think talking about that kinda stuff matters at all.

Anyways I mostly skimmed pages two, three and I didn't bother reading page four. But my two cents is that it honestly doesn't matter because they've all gone through redesigns before and the side characters (a.k.a. not Alm, Celica and the whitewing sisters) really don't seem to be set-in-stone. Also I definitely don't believe Nintendo makes characters "racially diverse" for the sake of it, judging by them never even talking about race like, ever. (unlike other companies, namely American ones)

I am curious though. are people actually bothered by this? Like, genuinely? I'm pretty sure most people in say, Japan, could care less. It's like the whole "Soleil controversy." I mean, they flat-out made fun of the over-sensitive westerners for that. I don't see all the "non-white" people in Japan getting upset by this stuff. I'm pretty sure it's literally the "majority" group getting upset for the "minority" group in these western countries. I dunno... just kinda feels that way...

Actually, even with a all white game cast, Asian people can still think it's about their race.

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1 minute ago, hanhnn said:

Actually, even with a all white game cast, Asian people can still think it's about their race.

Even if that is the case, they still don't complain about any other race. Honestly I don't get why some people get bothered in the first place.

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47 minutes ago, SuperIb said:

I am curious though. are people actually bothered by this? Like, genuinely? I'm pretty sure most people in say, Japan, could care less. It's like the whole "Soleil controversy." I mean, they flat-out made fun of the over-sensitive westerners for that. I don't see all the "non-white" people in Japan getting upset by this stuff. I'm pretty sure it's literally the "majority" group getting upset for the "minority" group in these western countries. I dunno... just kinda feels that way...

Lol, have same feeling. I feel the majority of black people already don't care anymore about racism things as long is not violence or deprive their human rights as normal as every person.

But as far is concern, the topic is not this I guess.

I don't think there will be any racial change without a good reason. I think it add more details and personality to them which the original gaiden cannot do. I hardly see a good reason to say ruin the character or totally different character just for the character design. I hardly believe the original creator was so rigid about they being white but more like a practical reason make them all white. As long they have same personally(if they had  a clear personality before), the appearances doesn't bother me as long it fit. It will bother me more seeing three generic dude with just peculiar hair style and color different them.

About the support, it will upset me if they put the racial question be within the village+alm group because it supposed to be normal for them after live so long together. It will no bother me with no question or not to deep answer. Even "I don't know" is fine. If happen outside of support is fine as well but I think is better as support but only one cause I tired of repetitive fates support.

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22 hours ago, Gustavos said:

Err, well it WOULD change if you made specifically Ike black. We would be debating whether it's coincidence that Ike is both the first black protagonist and the first non-noble. And with no other black men in Tellius that have status, the question is this: Are there no black men of status in Tellius because the people there are racist, or is IS being racist by asserting this as propaganda through their writing? Given that the story is written by Japanese people, an exclusive culture of people who likely live their long lives without meeting a single black person, we would probably argue the latter unless the script were changed where somebody remarks on Ike being black -affirming that human races exist in Tellius. Plus since the Laguz prejudice is already the established analogue for racism in the Tellius series, having a black protagonist round up the many races around the continent would still be powerful, but also fairly exploitative. We would end up with some very divisive discussion regarding what everybody believes is the most tasteful way to have written Ike's race into the plot. With current Tellius, everybody's pretty much in agreement that the Laguz are a non-offensive way of telling a story about race, much like in the X-men. They're different, and people react negatively to them out of fear.

If it were any other lord, being non-white would probably cause no issue, none that come to my mind anyhow.

I was quoting one of the thread creator's posts :mellow:

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6 minutes ago, Retyl said:

I was quoting one of the thread creator's posts :mellow:

 

1 hour ago, SpearOfLies said:

the appearances doesn't bother me as long it fit.

Just quoting myself.

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30 minutes ago, Retyl said:

I was quoting one of the thread creator's posts :mellow:

Oh, my bad. But I don't see what you're referring to. The Op didn't say what you're quoting, and they never posted a second time in the thread.

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I can't say I care about racial diversity, nor do I think it's something to necessarily strive towards. If it's there, it's nice but I never had problems identifying with 'white' characters nor do I care about basically never being represented in video games. I especially object to the usual demands for being represented as if simply filling some fucking quota would make everything right. In western film and television, Indians are usually stereotyped and yeah, that's not fine but Indian characters simply not being present was a never an issue to me.

As far as Fire Emblem goes, the Black Dragon Laguz are quite 'Indian'. Rajaion has 'Raj' or 'Raja' in his name, which means king/ruler in various Indian languages, The 'Medha' in Almedha is a common name for women in India. Her japanese name 'Amurita' or 'Amrita' is what the elixir of life is called in Indian mythology. Kurthnaga of course, has 'Naga' in his name and aside from it being an obvious reference to the character, it also means a race of snake people from Indian mythology. 

Edited by Ranger Jack Walker

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Do you care if this boy is Asian or Caucasian?

 
Ashanime

In the end, I think black people have more issue with this topic more than other races.

Edited by hanhnn

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30 minutes ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

I can't say I care about racial diversity, nor do I think it's something to necessarily strive towards. If it's there, it's nice but I never had problems identifying with 'white' characters nor do I care about basically never being represented in video games. I especially object to the usual demands for being represented as if simply filling some fucking quota would make everything right. In western film and television, Indians are usually stereotyped and yeah, that's not fine but Indian characters simply not being present was a never an issue to me.

As far as Fire Emblem goes, the Black Dragon Laguz are quite 'Indian'. Rajaion has 'Raj' or 'Raja' in his name, which means king/ruler in various Indian languages, The 'Medha' in Almedha is a common name for women in India. Her japanese name 'Amurita' or 'Amrita' is what the elixir of life is called in Indian mythology. Kurthnaga of course, has 'Naga' in his name and aside from it being an obvious reference to the character, it also means a race of snake people from Indian mythology. 

They also sport the whole red forehead mark. Though even male dragons have that...Wait a second Dheginsea has his right on the side. You wouldn't even see it if he had hair. But all his children have it on the forehead. I wonder what's up with that. It's almost like the Brand.

Edited by Jotari

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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

They also sport the whole red forehead mark. Though even male dragons have that...Wait a second Dheginsea doesn't have a mark does he? But all his children do. I wonder what's up with that.

Only married women are supposed to wear a bindi so I don't know what's up with that. Almedha herself has a mark but it's more like a tatoo or birthmark.

The markings on Kurthnaga and Rajaion are more like the tilaka worn by priests and also by regular people during religious ceremonies.

Edited by Ranger Jack Walker

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12 hours ago, Gustavos said:

Oh, my bad. But I don't see what you're referring to. The Op didn't say what you're quoting, and they never posted a second time in the thread.

Oh, woops, I'm an idiot. I didn't quote the thread creator. I quoted Extrasolar. My mistake. I for some reason misremembered who the thread creator is.

 

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