Not sure what skill to inherit or who to inherit it from? Read this! (Please read before posting)

[DehNutCase]

Just now, Kaden said:

For a Brash Assault user, would a positioning assist be better or would Ardent Sacrifice/Reciprocal Aid be better? There's no real safe way for BA users to get to that range other than tanking hits while they're at full HP and you can't really control someone to get down to 50% and swap HP with them, so that's one point where a positioning skill would be better. At the same time, depending on the build, they could restore HP and kind help out as a weird off-healer.

Also, considering BA requires that you initiate combat, Pivot and Swap are probably not going to be as useful as Reposition or perhaps Draw Back. Pivot and Swap could let them get into tanking positions, but since most of the BA users are at least 2 movement, they could just step over a unit outside of terrain limitations.

@DehNutCase, thoughts on this? You seem to know or theorized a lot on how BA builds can work.

The problem with BA is that its trigger conditions are waaaaaaaaay too harsh:

A, you need to be below 50%

B, you need to be attacking someone who can counter

C, you need to not kill the person you're attacking before they counter

D, you need to not die during the follow up despite being below half

E, you need to not double the person naturally to begin with

(Lyn can clear D without issues thanks to her Prf, but Lyn suffers from the problem that Chrom exists---Chrom does more damage with a Brave Sword than Lyn does with her Prf, his physical bulk is about the same as Lyn's even when he's being doubled but Lyn isn't, and magical bulk isn't a real thing.)

Strictly speaking, yes RA would help you trigger BA easier, but, even after you clear the A requirement, you still have to clear B, C, and D for Brash to actually do anything, whereas positioning assists are always amazing. Basically, if you run RA, Brash gets better, but the unit gets worse.

The effect, free follow up, is amazing, but the trigger conditions means that it'll basically never activate except in places like low level TT---low level means you can Fury 3 into 1 hp and still not die to follow ups, but anywhere else sustain becomes an issue. Breakers are simply far more reliable in the B-slot. (I use Alfonse a lot when he's a bonus, and I never switched from BA, but even on him it only matters once in a blue moon. Too often he just straight up OHKOs when below half thanks to his Prf, and if he doesn't OHKO he's often in danger of being OHKOd back, since he's below half.)

 

Brave-Axe Bartre has some damn amazing matchups below half, but 90% of said matchups are people he straight up 2HKOs. @ 15 HP brash gets him about 15 wins, @ 20 about 25, but the only places he can get that low is in TT. It's just too damn niche. Axe-breaker gets him ~15 wins as long as he's above half, which is way better than 15-25 wins below half, considering you start above half.

Fury 3, Bonfire, Brave-Sword Xander is similar. +6 all stats get him 124 wins @ 15 hp, 127 @ 20, 99 @ 1 hp (this is actually pretty damn good), compared to 94 wins @ full hp, but Swordbreaker has him @ 108 to 110 wins above half hp, so BA is only comparable in very maginal situations.

 

tl;dr, the problem with Brash isn't that it's bad, it's that you have to jump through so many hoops for it to trigger that its amazing effect is rarely felt. Breakers are an comparable effect in general, and trivial to trigger since the conditions are: 50% hp or higher & right weapon type. If breakers didn't exist brash might have an niche in slow units with terrific bulk and decent Atk, but breakers do exist, so...

 

[Kaden]

@DehNutCase, yeah, I get that it's difficult to use BA reliably and that its requirements are pretty steep compared to QR where in certain cases, you can take little to no damage and keep that up and running forever let alone that it's easier to use. BA requires that you can survive while being half dead which is much harder to work with compared to QR where you have to be almost at full HP. I doubt the developers will change the HP range to 60% or 70% without introducing a new skill that is a better BA. That said, I feel like BA is one of those skills that are stronger in the hands of enemy units since their boosted stats give them more leeway to use BA.

Guess I'll go with Reposition for Alfonse, Bartre, Chrom, and Seliph -- if I had one -- then. They get it eventually. I don't want to invest much into these guys. :p

Man, me and my quest to get a flying mage. So many units...

Edited August 13, 2017 by Kaden

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Does Quick Riposte or Vantage work better for Klein? 

[MrSmokestack]

Just now, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Does Quick Riposte or Vantage work better for Klein? 

Neitherses. Klein does most of his workses on Player Phase, so a breaker skillses like Swordbreaker is betterses for him most of the time. Uwe hee hee.

[Book Bro]

Quoting myself from the other topic 

 After much blood, sweat, tears, and orbs, I finally pulled a +atk -spd Jaffar! What's the best approach to take with him? I'm planning to sacrifice a repeat Kagero for her dagger as soon as possible.

[Mallow]

Trying to decide how to kit out my Bridal Cordelia. I don't have a unit pre-prepared to send her Life or Death 3, unless I spend 20k feathers on a 4* Hana in my ranks. I'm debating keeping Escape Route on her and adding Fury, so she can more easily activate Escape Route and still get attack/speed buffs, but would LoD/Desperation be better overall?

She's +HP/-Res (i know it's not great) so it's not like the issue is a concern toward prioritizing her Boon.

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Book Bro said:

 After much blood, sweat, tears, and orbs, I finally pulled a +atk -spd Jaffar! What's the best approach to take with him? I'm planning to sacrifice a repeat Kagero for her dagger as soon as possible.

Jaffar is already set. He is not fast enough for Sweep, so either give him Poison Strike or a Seal. Savage Blow can work as his C passive if you do not need him to provide buffs. Reposition is my favorite Assist, but Draw Back would work too.

27 minutes ago, Mallow said:

Trying to decide how to kit out my Bridal Cordelia. I don't have a unit pre-prepared to send her Life or Death 3, unless I spend 20k feathers on a 4* Hana in my ranks. I'm debating keeping Escape Route on her and adding Fury, so she can more easily activate Escape Route and still get attack/speed buffs, but would LoD/Desperation be better overall?

She's +HP/-Res (i know it's not great) so it's not like the issue is a concern toward prioritizing her Boon.

BB!Cordelia is worth 40,000+ Feathers. You do not want to see her sad face, right? She is too adorable to be frowning all the time.

Spoiler

She looks sooooooo cute when she is happy and smiling.

Spoiler

For her B passive, I recommend Desperation or a Breaker. I personally use Swordbreaker, but I will switch it out for Desperation since I do not see as many sword units these days.

[Mallow]

25 minutes ago, XRay said:

BB!Cordelia is worth 40,000+ Feathers. You do not want to see her sad face, right? She is too adorable to be frowning all the time.

  Reveal hidden contents

She looks sooooooo cute when she is happy and smiling.

  Reveal hidden contents

For her B passive, I recommend Desperation or a Breaker. I personally use Swordbreaker, but I will switch it out for Desperation since I do not see as many sword units these days.

well i can't make cordelia sad now can i

I'll probably do Desperation between those two, I believe I have a spare 4* Shanna I can spend.

[Poimagic]

Anyways, I just checked out my 5 star Julia and turns out she is +def/-spd. Any recommendations for sets for her?

[XRay]

4 hours ago, Poimagic said:

Anyways, I just checked out my 5 star Julia and turns out she is +def/-spd. Any recommendations for sets for her?

You must have terrible luck with Julia, like me. Even with a bad nature though, Julia can still function as a blue mage counter very well. You can give her Triangle Adept and Quick Riposte to annihilate things like NS!Corrin, Delthea, Linde, Olwen, and Reinhardt.

[Tragonight]

A and B skills for Gronnblade Horse Emblem Cecilia? She's neutral 4* merged, and I don't have any Death Blow fodder.

I put Green Tomebreaker on her a while ago, but I'm not sure if that's better than Vantage, Desperation, etc.

[mampfoid]

31 minutes ago, Tragonight said:

A and B skills for Gronnblade Horse Emblem Cecilia? She's neutral 4* merged, and I don't have any Death Blow fodder.

I put Green Tomebreaker on her a while ago, but I'm not sure if that's better than Vantage, Desperation, etc.

If I had spare Hinatas, I would put fury on her. G Tome breaker sounds better than desperation. Even buffed and with fury she doesn't reach 30 speed (unmerged 4*), that's a little slow for desperation. Vantage is a more defensive skill, she should have an offensive role as a buffed nuke. 

[Poimagic]

What is a good C slot skill for Legion?

[XRay]

5 hours ago, Tragonight said:

A and B skills for Gronnblade Horse Emblem Cecilia? She's neutral 4* merged, and I don't have any Death Blow fodder.

I put Green Tomebreaker on her a while ago, but I'm not sure if that's better than Vantage, Desperation, etc.

With few exceptions, Blade mages should always go with Life and Death. Only the slowest of the slow mages benefit from Death Blow more than Life and Death. With Hone Cavalry and Life and Death, Cecilia 4* can reach 34 Speed. Her ideal nature is [+Spd, -Res], so if you pull a copy of that, you can merge your neutral into that one. Desperation will work well if Cecilia is +Spd. If not, I would go with a Breaker. If you are using Fury instead of Life and Death, then go with a Breaker.

Vantage is for niche Enemy Phase builds units, and Enemy Phase builds in general are used and built differently than Player Phase builds.

23 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

What is a good C slot skill for Legion?

I like Savage Blow on my main nukes and Hones on my Dancer/Singer and Bonus unit. If Legion is not your main nuke, then any buff you like will work. I favor Hone Attack and Hone Speed.

Edited August 15, 2017 by XRay

[Tragonight]

17 minutes ago, XRay said:

With few exceptions, Blade mages should always go with Life and Death. Only the slowest of the slow mages benefit from Death Blow more than Life and Death. With Hone Cavalry and Life and Death, Cecilia 4* can reach 34 Speed. Her ideal nature is [+Spd, -Res], so if you pull a copy of that, you can merge your neutral into that one. Desperation will work well if Cecilia is +Spd. If not, I would go with a Breaker. If you are using Fury instead of Life and Death, then go with a Breaker.

Vantage is for niche Enemy Phase builds units, and Enemy Phase builds in general are used and built differently than Player Phase builds.

Yeah, I was originally considering that with Desperation. My Cecilia is 4* +6 right now, and if I pull a +Spd one, she can hit 33+ Speed with Life and Death 2 (I'm not whale enough for Life and Death 3), which reaches 39 with horse buffs. Is 39 Speed enough for Desperation?

Also, why -Res and not -Def? Are there specific match ups that she wins with those IVs?

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Tragonight said:

Yeah, I was originally considering that with Desperation. My Cecilia is 4* +6 right now, and if I pull a +Spd one, she can hit 33+ Speed with Life and Death 2 (I'm not whale enough for Life and Death 3), which reaches 39 with horse buffs. Is 39 Speed enough for Desperation?

Also, why -Res and not -Def? Are there specific match ups that she wins with those IVs?

39 is enough more than enough for Desperation.

For ranged units, you generally want to Bane the higher defensive stat since the higher one does not contribute as much defensively as the lower one.

[Skfoos]

What's a good B skill for Amelia in general? Does Desperation work, or should that be only for Brave builds?

[XRay]

10 minutes ago, Reloaded said:

What's a good B skill for Amelia in general? Does Desperation work, or should that be only for Brave builds?

Amelia +Atk -Res
Brave Axe, Bonfire/Luna
Life and Death, Axebreaker

Amelia +Atk -Def/Res
Slaying Axe, Bonfire/Luna
Distant Counter, Quick Riposte

Since I am not sure what you want out of Amelia, those should be her best Player Phase and Enemy Phase builds. The calculator is still a bit buggy, but I think Ameila is better off as a Player Phase unit. If you want to use Desperation, Amelia needs +Spd.

[Skfoos]

37 minutes ago, XRay said:

Amelia +Atk -Res
Brave Axe, Bonfire/Luna
Life and Death, Axebreaker

Amelia +Atk -Def/Res
Slaying Axe, Bonfire/Luna
Distant Counter, Quick Riposte

Since I am not sure what you want out of Amelia, those should be her best Player Phase and Enemy Phase builds. The calculator is still a bit buggy, but I think Ameila is better off as a Player Phase unit. If you want to use Desperation, Amelia needs +Spd.

I'm thinking of making an Armor Emblem team with her, alongside Zephiel, Effie, and Sheena, but I'll take general recommendations as well. Mine is +res/-hp (I think), and since I don't have Hector, I'll probably use the first set. Does it matter too much if I use [skill] 1 or 2 over 3?

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Reloaded said:

I'm thinking of making an Armor Emblem team with her, alongside Zephiel, Effie, and Sheena, but I'll take general recommendations as well. Mine is +res/-hp (I think), and since I don't have Hector, I'll probably use the first set. Does it matter too much if I use [skill] 1 or 2 over 3?

If you are using the armor team just for the armor quest, then I would not invest too heavily into them since you do not need a decked out team to get that 1 Orb.

If you plan to use them for Arena Assault, you would want to max out their skills with as many high SP skills as possible and set them as your first team.

I do not recommend using armor teams in normal Arena unless you can merge them and max out their skills to guarantee that your armor team will only face other armor teams. Even with Amelia, armor teams are difficult to use and they are very vulnerable to Blade pony teams.

[Skfoos]

 

42 minutes ago, XRay said:

If you are using the armor team just for the armor quest, then I would not invest too heavily into them since you do not need a decked out team to get that 1 Orb.

If you plan to use them for Arena Assault, you would want to max out their skills with as many high SP skills as possible and set them as your first team.

I do not recommend using armor teams in normal Arena unless you can merge them and max out their skills to guarantee that your armor team will only face other armor teams. Even with Amelia, armor teams are difficult to use and they are very vulnerable to Blade pony teams.

Rip armor emblem dream, died before I even started

In that case, would something like Gray/Effie/Amelia/Nino (maybe replace one of them with a dancer) work for normal Arena?

 

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Reloaded said:

Rip armor emblem dream, died before I even started

In that case, would something like Gray/Effie/Amelia/Nino (maybe replace one of them with a dancer) work for normal Arena?

If you really want to use Amelia, she needs an armor partner to make her viable, so that means you have to replace either Gray or Nino. I would replace Gray, since ranged units are superior to melee units in my opinion.

[Skfoos]

30 minutes ago, XRay said:

If you really want to use Amelia, she needs an armor partner to make her viable, so that means you have to replace either Gray or Nino. I would replace Gray, since ranged units are superior to melee units in my opinion.

She needs 2 armor allies? Why?

[XRay]

21 minutes ago, Reloaded said:

She needs 2 armor allies? Why?

She needs one armor ally to activate Armor March. Without Armor March, armor units are too slow to be effective in a mixed movement team.

If Base Stat Total and Bonus Unit are not a factor in the highest tier of the Arena, the ideal composition would be a full pony team or a triple pony team with a Dancer/Singer.

Edited August 16, 2017 by XRay

[Skfoos]

30 minutes ago, XRay said:

She needs one armor ally to activate Armor March. Without Armor March, armor units are too slow to be effective in a mixed movement team.

If Base Stat Total and Bonus Unit are not a factor in the highest tier of the Arena, the ideal composition would be a full pony team or a triple pony team with a Dancer/Singer.

So why does Effie not count? Am I missing something here?

And you pretty much nailed why I want to use Amelia in the first place lol