Which mediocre units are now good? (Skill Inheriting potential)

[Pimalai]

Hey guys,

Which "forgotten" units, which were low on the older tier lists, do you think that have the potential to be top tier units due to their skill inheriting potential and good base skills?

I can see Draug being the highest base total stats in the game (that will be the new reference, right?). Donnel is so high too, same as Nowi, who was already a good unit.

Also, Skill Inheritance could breath some life into Florina, Hana or Lon'Qu. Also Lilina can be great due to his high attack.

Which forgotten units will you invest in to make them good?

Cheers!

Edited March 17, 2017 by Pimalai

[Eselred]

Units are now just stat sticks unless they have a good uninheritable skill, or you have a personal attachment to a certain character.  Pick the one with the best stats and go.  Inheritance isn't going to fix bad characters because other units could put those skills to better use.

[Kruggov]

44 minutes ago, Pimalai said:

Hey guys,

Which "forgotten" units, which were low on the older tier lists, do you think that have the potential to be top tier units due to their skill inheriting potential and good base skills?

I can see Draug being the highest base total stats in the game (that will be the new reference, right?). Donnel is so high too, same as Nowi, who was already a good unit.

Also, Skill Inheritance could breath some life into Florina, Hana or Lon'Qu. Also Lilina can be great due to his high attack.

Which forgotten units will you invest in to make them good?

Cheers!

Draug - Mb, he is actually quite fast for an armor, Brave Sword nonwithstanding, but his low attack needs fixing.

Hana is actually used, but mostly as a suicide bomber - i don't know WHAT can be used to replace Life and Death without crippling her (so far) only role.

I previously had plans for Sophia (Wary Fighter + Raven tome), which would have made her a good Anti-Takumi (or Anti-Colorless in general), but those fell through once I learned that Wary Fighter is armor only.

Alfonse with Quick Riposte ORKOs a LOT of A-to-S+ Tier Red/Green 1-range chars, and in a lot of cases start the turn with fully charged and Folkvangr-boosted Sol. Blues still wreck him, though.

AFAIK, only Cavalry teams of (Reinhardt/Olwen/Ursula)+Leo+Cecilia+somebody physical like Eldigan can be very powerful with a combo of Hone/Fortify Cavalry and Blade tomes for a total of +30 Atk. If so then Wolf Tomes will be more useful than before and, with them, Raigh and F!Robin.

10 minutes ago, Eselred said:

Units are now just stat sticks unless they have a good uninheritable skill, or you have a personal attachment to a certain character.  Pick the one with the best stats and go.  Inheritance isn't going to fix bad characters because other units could put those skills to better use.

IDK, some skills fit some stats better). Besides, SP to get all those skills is gonna be an issue.

[Eselred]

8 minutes ago, Kruggov said:

IDK, some skills fit some stats better). Besides, SP to get all those skills is gonna be an issue.

Here's the thing...you throw a bunch of skills on say Florina and she's still bad.  Her terrible stats are more the problem than her skills and you can't fix that with inheritance.  You essentially wasted those skills when tons of other characters could put them to better use, unless you really like Florina...

My A Team of level 40 characters each have at least 1000 SP saved up, and I let stamina go to waste often.  My only 5* Marth has all his skills learned and like 1500 SP in reserve...

Edited March 17, 2017 by Eselred

[Kiran]

Hana with Fury, Desperation, Moonbow, Killer Sword+. Should be able to take on any red/green easily. Plus not so vulnerable now due to removal of life and death and added def/res of fury. 

[ILikeKirbys]

Draug... I never really looked at him because I don't like his skillset (also, 1 MOV is awful), but his Speed is actually rather good, and his Defense and HP are amazing. I would possibly replace Pavise with Aegis or Sacred Cowl to try to mitigate Draug's Resistance being awful, replace Brave Sword with Killing Edge to proc Aegis/Cowl faster, and give him Svalinn Shield or RES +3, Brash Assault (Draug has a lot of HP, so I can see him getting some usage out of this) and Spur/Fortify DEF 3 so he can work with a non-Armor team.

Hana should have her role as Glass Cannon enhanced, so throw a Brave Sword her way so she can double-hit everything, and probably quad-hit most armors (to make up for losing Armorslayer's effective damage on them). Also, maybe give her Dragon Fang, to make her deal even more damage. Skills-wise, keep Life and Death to undo the Speed loss from Brave Sword (IIRC this leaves Hana with 36 Speed or something close to that), perhaps give her Escape Route so she can run away to safety after taking a hit, or maybe one of the Seal skills so she can nerf enemies she can't kill (not sure who those would be, but I'm assuming at least the armors can survive two Hana hits, except maybe Sheena if one hit was Dragon Fang-boosted), or maybe Vantage, and throw Savage Blow on her so she can damage nearby enemies post-combat.

Also, maybe giving Ursula Blarblade/Moonbow would let her be a superior Odin? Since she can take advantage of Hone/Fortify Cavalry, so you could have two teammates with those and one extra (I would use Clarine/Elise/Priscilla for healing & Pain+Poison Strike while still benefiting from H/FC, or maybe a dancer to give extra turns, but you could put pretty much anyone in the fourth slot here depending on your needs), is what I'm thinking.

@Kiran That's also a really good set! Probably still rather vulnerable tho, since Fury eats 6 HP after any combat and Hana's defenses are probably still not that great even after Fury 3. Still, I would try it, if I had a spare Hana.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Kiran said:

Hana with Fury, Desperation, Moonbow, Killer Sword+. Should be able to take on any red/green easily. Plus not so vulnerable now due to removal of life and death and added def/res of fury. 

I'm considering Hana with Brave Sword+, Galeforce/Escutcheon, Life and Death, and Desperation/Renewal.

Hana loses some Spd with Brave Sword+, but not enough for her to be double attacked by really anything (41 Spd to double attack is a high bar), and her massive base Atk and Life and Death offsets the weapon's lower Atk.

Escutcheon's cooldown of 2 guarantees it will be up on the enemy's counterattack if they somehow survive, and 30% damage reduction is huge when you take as much damage as Hana does.

Alternatively, Galeforce gives you an extra turn, but is really hard to charge up because things should just die before you get enough hits off.

Desperation activates after the first time an enemy successfully counterattacks and guarantees Hana will land 4 hits before the opponent responds if they have 31 Spd or less.

Alternatively, Renewal heals some of the damage you take every other turn, allowing you to continue using her in combat.

[Lushen]

Alfonse, Sharena, and Anna.  All have fairly high base totals and can now inherit any skill.

[Arcanite]

Selena is pretty good but now that she can get death blow and other things. her middling attack and fairly good resistance and defense make her a nice base for power uppance.

[Vaximillian]

19 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Alfonse, Sharena, and Anna.  All have fairly high base totals and can now inherit any skill.

Implying Sharena (and Anna) are mediocre.

[Kruggov]

1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

Implying Sharena (and Anna) are mediocre.

Lol nope. Sharena is awesome (and cute xD), and Anna is IMO the best infantry axe user (and also cute xD).

[Ryuke]

Setsuna is god level now.

Aside from the high speed..

throw distant counter and a few atk.

 

you have a takumi that can double.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Ryuke

[Shiro]

2 minutes ago, Ryuke said:

Setsuna is god level now.

Aside from the high speed..

throw distant counter and a few atk.

 

you have a takumi that can double.

where can setsuna get her high atk from? im tempted to pull a +atk or +spd setsuna as she is one of my favorite heroes and scrape my takumi so other than distant counter what other skills would be good for her?

[Ryuke]

3 minutes ago, Shiro said:

where can setsuna get her high atk from? im tempted to pull a +atk or +spd setsuna as she is one of my favorite heroes and scrape my takumi so other than distant counter what other skills would be good for her?

Setsuna		37	28	37	22	23	147	[Super Speedy]

Takumi		40	32	33	25	18	148	[Balanced - DEF Focus, Unique]

 

-Darting Blow might be good. (Or maybe Atk+3 (Probably not), or that one skill that increases Atk when Setsuna is under 50% hp. - Assuming she doesnt get double.. its not OHKO but her speed is low)

-She might need a new bow (Assassin bow to Silver Bow/Yumi or something)

 

Tbh I havent done much research. I am planning to let the JP player plays it out. I am just glad Setsuna is going to be strong because of her Spd.

As for attack, it's not like Takumi/Gordin can beat out armor knight (so... yeah no archer can take them out as of yet)

 

[Elieson]

2 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Implying Sharena (and Anna) are mediocre.

that's not Anna tho

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jrzLU5A3TvrsyOZcMoXNY_UjpPgnDAD_zOf-1ZmOF1o/edit#gid=0 (Unit Stats compiled, ignoring Weaponry/Skill based stat boosts)

Not sure why Selena's being so well rated, considering that she is tied for the lowest Atk [25] and second-lowest HP [37] out of all the Swordies.

She's bulky, yes, but she's not that "good" because she lacks the ability to do much aside from soak up some axe hits, which basically any swordie can do with confidence. Even without Triangle Adept, Selena desperately desperately needs a Silver Sword+, because her pitiful offense means she's not doing much damage on counter outside of perhaps a safety chip to help let your team's nukes do followup, and if you're looking for inheritance-based sword tanks, you're way better off working with Ryoma (who counters with Raijinto and has free slot A/B), Eirika (who offers better offense for less defense, but has inverted HP to offset that), Lyn (who's as good or better in every way sans Def again, but boasts a much better offense and more stats in every other department).

I'd say Severa's better with inheritance, as most units are, but her tiny offense doesn't mesh well with her tanking ability since most of the common threats that she'd encounter via 1-range are lances (that you're keeping her away from anyway), manaketes (which she's hitting for like at best, 18-22ish damage) and other axes (which other pre-built lords with multipurpose PRF swords get more utility with).

[Vaximillian]

1 minute ago, Elieson said:

that's not Anna tho

All Annas are Anna.

[Shiro]

Just now, Ryuke said:

Setsuna		37	28	37	22	23	147	[Super Speedy]

Takumi		40	32	33	25	18	148	[Balanced - DEF Focus, Unique]

 

-Darting Blow might be good. (Or maybe Atk+3 (Probably not), or that one skill that increases Atk when Setsuna is under 50% hp. - Assuming she doesnt get double.. its not OHKO but her speed is low)

-She might need a new bow (Assassin bow to Silver Bow/Yumi or something)

 

Tbh I havent done much research. I am planning to let the JP player plays it out. I am just glad Setsuna is going to be strong because of her Spd.

As for attack, it's not like Takumi/Gordin can beat out armor knight (so... yeah no archer can take them out as of yet)

 

cant give special weapons over and bows in general dont have high base atk and yaeh i use 2 mages, being sanaki and linde to cover tanks and other mages catria is sword sweeper and hector is my go to for any spear users or other tanks 

[Troykv]

I'm trying to think which abilities would work for Sophia.

 

Also... Which characters you believe are a lost cause?

[Ryuke]

1 minute ago, Shiro said:

cant give special weapons over and bows in general dont have high base atk and yaeh i use 2 mages, being sanaki and linde to cover tanks and other mages catria is sword sweeper and hector is my go to for any spear users or other tanks 

So no Takumi ? xD

Yeah.. I would wait for JP to come up with a solid Setsuna or I might test her out sometimes in the future. I dont have a good Bow user with good Bow. Gordin/Virion comes with Brave, Silver...

Since I am f2p ... I rather not yolo it.. though .. I do believe that speed is going to be a huge asset.

[Shiro]

On 3/17/2017 at 10:33 AM, Ryuke said:

So no Takumi ? xD

Yeah.. I would wait for JP to come up with a solid Setsuna or I might test her out sometimes in the future. I dont have a good Bow user with good Bow. Gordin/Virion comes with Brave, Silver...

Since I am f2p ... I rather not yolo it.. though .. I do believe that speed is going to be a huge asset.

i need help on making this guy viable x.x

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by Shiro

[Delfino]

I actually use a +Atk -Res Draug, so I slapped a few skills on him. Here's what I am currently working on:

Weapon: Brave Sword
Assist: Swap
Special: Pavise
A: Death Blow 3
B: Wary Fighter 3
C: Threaten Defense 3

Draug is pretty fast, but he's not really fast enough with the Brave Sword to double on defense or quadruple on offense most of the time. One of his issues is that although he has high defense, he gets doubled by common sword-users like Lucina, Ryoma, etc. He also has god-awful resistance and gets shut down by most common mages like Tharja, Linde, and even Nino. With Wary Fighter, nothing is going to be killing him in a single round other than Dire Thunder users. And then whatever sits in his range is going to get a defense debuff and a Death Blow brave attack to the face. A full-health Draug now wins against Linde.
Previously, he also struggled against Takumi (Takumi attacks first from a distance and doubles, Draug attacks and doubles but doesn't kill, Takumi gets Vengeance and doubles again...). Now, Takumi loses the double, attacks but just dings his armor, and dies next turn.
Swap exists for better mobility and for getting allies out of the way. I typically have Robin next to him most of the time, and he'll have Reposition for more fun.

Draug will still struggle against lance-users and blue dragons, but that's what I've got Julia and Camilla around for. I thought about putting Svalinn Shield on him, but Death Blow is great with the Brave Sword, and I feel like a lot of people are going to be throwing out Armorslayers and Hammers for better weapons anyway. I might swap out Pavise for Noontime or Sol or something in the Sacred Cowl line. Trading out the Brave Sword for a higher power weapon is an option since it'll better his speed, but he would still lose to the aforementioned mages and Takumi and probably wouldn't double a whole lot in return.

[MaskedAmpharos]

Cherche essentially becomes a better Camilla if you inherit Brave Axe. She's always had really solid base stats (one of the highest ATK stats in the game) and is superior to Camilla in all stats except Spd (hardly matters with Brave weapon penalty) and Res. She was mostly held back by a mediocre weapon and skillset, but Skill Inheritance can change all of that. 

Also, now that anyone can inherit the -blade tomes, cavalry teams become a lot more potent as Cecilia/Ursula/Leo can gain way higher bonuses from Hone/Fortify Cavalry than Nino/Odin/Tharja ever could. 

[Shiro]

12 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Cherche essentially becomes a better Camilla if you inherit Brave Axe. She's always had really solid base stats (one of the highest ATK stats in the game) and is superior to Camilla in all stats except Spd (hardly matters with Brave weapon penalty) and Res. She was mostly held back by a mediocre weapon and skillset, but Skill Inheritance can change all of that. 

Also, now that anyone can inherit the -blade tomes, cavalry teams become a lot more potent as Cecilia/Ursula/Leo can gain way higher bonuses from Hone/Fortify Cavalry than Nino/Odin/Tharja ever could. 

these teams will be the ones that have been prepping horse teams in advanced which i have not x.x 

[Roflolxp54]

Lyn would want Vantage, Threaten Defense or Threaten Speed, and Moonbow or Glimmer since they're skills that would really go well with her Sol Katti (which has inherent Desperation 2) and Defiant Atk. For Assist skills, she'd want something like Reposition or Pivot, or something like Ardent Sacrifice or Reciprocal Aid.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Roflolxp54

[DehNutCase]

2 hours ago, Elieson said:

that's not Anna tho

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jrzLU5A3TvrsyOZcMoXNY_UjpPgnDAD_zOf-1ZmOF1o/edit#gid=0 (Unit Stats compiled, ignoring Weaponry/Skill based stat boosts)

Not sure why Selena's being so well rated, considering that she is tied for the lowest Atk [25] and second-lowest HP [37] out of all the Swordies.

She's bulky, yes, but she's not that "good" because she lacks the ability to do much aside from soak up some axe hits, which basically any swordie can do with confidence. Even without Triangle Adept, Selena desperately desperately needs a Silver Sword+, because her pitiful offense means she's not doing much damage on counter outside of perhaps a safety chip to help let your team's nukes do followup, and if you're looking for inheritance-based sword tanks, you're way better off working with Ryoma (who counters with Raijinto and has free slot A/B), Eirika (who offers better offense for less defense, but has inverted HP to offset that), Lyn (who's as good or better in every way sans Def again, but boasts a much better offense and more stats in every other department).

I'd say Severa's better with inheritance, as most units are, but her tiny offense doesn't mesh well with her tanking ability since most of the common threats that she'd encounter via 1-range are lances (that you're keeping her away from anyway), manaketes (which she's hitting for like at best, 18-22ish damage) and other axes (which other pre-built lords with multipurpose PRF swords get more utility with).

Selena only has 3 less ATK than Lyn, and only 2 less ATK when both have +ATK natures. (Selena's in one of those growth tiers where a +boon gives her 4 rather than 3, and Lyn is in one of those growth tiers where a -bane gives her -4 rather than -3). Moreover, Selena has such absurd bulk that even after Life and Death 3 she STILL has more def than Lyn, it's ridiculous.

Also, being a 3 star base means it's easier to get a good boon/bane combo for Selena than it is to get a good boon/bane combo for Lyn.

Mind, I have a major Selena bias, but Lyn is one of the few sword lords I'd consider Selena strictly better than. (And wow I just made my English professors turn in their graves.) Erika fares even worse, she only has 1 more ATK (admittedly she keeps this +1 advantage because she's also in the growth tier where a +boon gives 4 ATK) and the same speed despite having worse bulk because she dumped so many points into HP.

Edited March 17, 2017 by DehNutCase
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