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Should all bosses have the "evil" look?


Dragoncat
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Generally if a boss has their own portrait, they are made to look scruffy, badly groomed, etc. Which is expected for bandits, but what about professional soldiers? Should they look similar to bandits or not?

As an example:

Isaiya.png

This dude isn't a bandit. He's a captain of a unit of Begnion soldiers. Yet he still has that bandity look with scars etc. If you look at a boss who has a bigger role in the story:

Jarod.png

No scars or scruff here, but still has the evil looking eyes.

Is this realistic at all? Do you think IS just did this so you can easily tell who's recruitable and who's not? Discuss!

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8 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

Is this realistic at all? Do you think IS just did this so you can easily tell who's recruitable and who's not? Discuss!

Pretty much this (although we do have Gonzales and probably some other units. But majority of units look attractive).

 

Wouldn't mind having a boss that doesn't have the evil look. I mean, for example, Michalis sort of doesn't have that look. 

 

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I recall an Awkward Zombie comic that poked fun at the "if they're attractive they must be willing to switch sides" thing.

It's not very logical when you think about it. There can be people who look all innocent and nice but actually aren't, I mean I think there's been serial killers who were so successful in their killing sprees because they looked like good people and people trusted them. Vice versa.

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Yeah there is no need to have a boss look "evil" particularly for professional soldiers that are the foe mainly because of orders or loyalty (two things that in a ideal game ) plus that assumes that "evil" people actually look evil which is well not true some of the worst people in history have actually been quite attractive and nice looking.

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6 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

 

I recall an Awkward Zombie comic that poked fun at the "if they're attractive they must be willing to switch sides" thing.

 

Yeah, I remember that too.

If you think about, most of the recruitable characters on the enemy side are mainly attractive looking compared to almost all other enemies. In fact most look quite young.

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Bosses need not look evil. Nor: ugly, extravagant, strange, angry, cunning, pathetic, or any basically like any other negative trait.

How about a generic boss who is disarmingly normal looking? Grunt: "Commander! The enemy is here!" Generic Boss: "Well we're prepared for it, let's end it before the upper brass starts to criticize our performance. We'll put their heads on spikes and array them along the nearby roads to intimidate the local populace. The standard procedure, just as we had done with those uppity peasants last month."

Or, how about a young and handsome guy who sincerely believes in the ideology the villain is espousing? Who cannot be persuaded to leave, but is not a fanatic? Grunt: "My young commander, the enemy is attacking Tor Garen!" Generic Boss: "So Begnion has lent support to the Crimean pretender. Well sorry for her, but Ashnard is my ticket out of poverty. A successful military career should free me from want and let me live a decent life. If Ashnard goes and the nobles start infesting the officer corps again, or if I fail to achieve, I'll never find a good girl, start a nice family, and die happy. Instead, I'll die a sad indebted drunk."

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Hmph, such insolence in this thread. My beauty only denotes my being chosen by the gods. There's no room in this world for anything less.

You know, you could cite Birthright and Conquest as good games that show you can have attractive antagonists that stay loyal to the other side, but you can just as easily make the argument that it was to help sell the other games.

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I like moral ambiguity, so I say that bosses do not need the "evil" look... or the "evil" personality either. We don't really even need it from a gameplay perspective... New Mystery of the Emblem did a pretty good job alleviating that, with the whole "hey, try to recruit this guy" dialogue you could view before a battle. Or even the common "what am I fighting for?" dialogues / monologues that some recruitable characters have at the beginning of chapters.

Fire Emblem in general just needs more of a mixed bag of pretty / ugly / plain characters on every side.

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Pfft, no.  Looks don't dictate whether someone is good/bad IRL, so I think it should be the same in a video game.

Edited by eclipse
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I found some of the Recruitable Paralogue Bosses from Fates didn't look super evil - take Candace, for instance, who seems friendly enough, or my personal favorite, Nichol, who doesn't look evil so much as…almost tired of life, more depressed than anything else. I almost feel like he was supposed to have some kind of tragic backstory that came out when you captured him, but nope, the closest we got to a hint of him being meant for more is his lone silent Crit Cut-In. While an Evil look does seem to be a bad idea as judging on appearance is something generally frowned upon in society but secretly practiced by literally everyone at some point or other, I think with games, it's actually a fairly logical and good decision so that when a big plot twist comes up(like Awakening's huge shocker about Grima…called it before reaching the halfway point, btw) people are even more blown away because the bad guy always looks BAD, not normal, so how could you have seen this coming if you weren't so dang pessimistic about the storyline like I am?

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I've have been thinking about that recently. One of the most interesting things I find, is how they modified Oliver's design between games. In PoR, he has a very sinister face, but in RD his features have been softened to make him seem more welcoming.

latest?cb=20090516082642File:OliverFE10Portrait.png

Edited by Hardin
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Man, Jarod is looking finer than I remember him being

To an extent, I want the obviously evil designed villains to stay. At this point, it's just tradition that your army is full of supermodels while the enemy ranks are filled out with generic clones and/or hideous dudes. Many jokes have been made about it, and I think it should stay. Though it would be nice to get the occasional subversion like I remember Gonzalez and Oliver to an extent being - ugly dudes joining the player's team. There are a few  attractive faces on the enemy side at times *cough*Jarod*cough*, but getting handsome dudes more consistently over there would be good too.

1 hour ago, Hardin said:

I've have been thinking about that recently. One of the most interesting things I find, is how they modified Oliver's design between games. In PoR, he has a very sinister face, but in RD his features have been softened to make him seem more welcoming.

That's actually really funny. It's like they're self-aware of their obvious tendency to design villains or antagonists different than player characters and protagonists.

Edited by Extrasolar
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I don't think they need to be fugly as a rule but I do feel it's almost part of the character of the series.

As for the good looking ones? I lot of major antagonists tend to get a better deal than the regular chapter bosses.

FE6: Brunya, Zephiel (he'd be pretty dang handsome if he stopped scowling)
FE7: Lloyd, Linus, Sonia, Ursula, Limstella
FE8: Lyon, Glen, Selena
FE9&10: Zelgius, Levail, Ashera, Jerod, Ludveck, Lekain, Sephiran
FE11&12: Camus, Michalis, Clarisse, Eremiya
FE13: Pheros, Yen-Faye (maybe?)
FE14: Kilma, Arete, Kotaro, Azura

That said, a number of those characters are sympathetic antagonists so there are only a handful of truly evil and yet attractive people.

 

Edited by NekoKnight
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I think it varies greatly. I've brought it up before but one of the reasons why I dislike the Nino subplot in Blazing Blade is because of Sonia; you know she's a Morph, you know she's not Nino's mother, and because of the contrast in their designs, you know Nino is going to join you. Their design works against any form of mystery or unpredictability that they were going for, and had Sonia just looked different, it would've become less predictable and her claims that she's not a Morph would've made a lot more sense and been more interesting.

Again, it all depends on what kind of character you want. Arvis and Lyon are pretty boys with redeemable traits, so they wouldn't fit looking like Ashnard.

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Why not?  All bosses in the real world also have an "evil" look, and art reflects reality after all.

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6 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Man, Jarod is looking finer than I remember him being

To an extent, I want the obviously evil designed villains to stay. At this point, it's just tradition that your army is full of supermodels while the enemy ranks are filled out with generic clones and/or hideous dudes. Many jokes have been made about it, and I think it should stay. Though it would be nice to get the occasional subversion like I remember Gonzalez and Oliver to an extent being - ugly dudes joining the player's team. There are a few  attractive faces on the enemy side at times *cough*Jarod*cough*, but getting handsome dudes more consistently over there would be good too.

That's actually really funny. It's like they're self-aware of their obvious tendency to design villains or antagonists different than player characters and protagonists.

Is that meant to be sarcasm? I'd be pretty hugely surprised if the professional designers aren't aware as to why they're designing characters to look a certain why.

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6 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I don't think they need to be fugly as a rule but I do feel it's almost part of the character of the series.

As for the good looking ones? I lot of major antagonists tend to get a better deal than the regular chapter bosses.

FE6: Brunya, Zephiel (he'd be pretty dang handsome if he stopped scowling)
FE7: Lloyd, Linus, Sonia, Ursula, Limstella
FE8: Lyon, Glen, Selena
FE9&10: Zelgius, Levail, Ashera, Jerod, Ludveck, Lekain, Sephiran
FE11&12: Camus, Michalis, Clarisse, Eremiya
FE13: Pheros, Yen-Faye (maybe?)
FE14: Kilma, Arete, Kotaro, Azura

That said, a number of those characters are sympathetic antagonists so there are only a handful of truly evil and yet attractive people.

 

Basically, if you're a "Camus" you'll be good-looking and sympathetic. To add to your list:

FE4- Eldigan, Trabant, Ishtar, Ishtor, Liza, Iuchar/Iucharba (depending on which one you pick) Pamela + Jabarro and of their recolors and knockoffs, but they're borderline. 

And I'm not sure if this one counts, but Arione(?). He becomes an ally, but not playable though.

Edited by Dandy Druid
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5 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

FE6: Brunya, Zephiel (he'd be pretty dang handsome if he stopped scowling)
FE7: Lloyd, Linus, Sonia, Ursula, Limstella
FE8: Lyon, Glen, Selena

Include Idunn as well I guess. She doesn't really look evil, more like, emotionless.

Sonia I think has the evil look despite being quite attractive. Same with Arvis (although he isn't actually evil), Julius, and like I said before, Michalis sort of as well.

 

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12 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

 

As for the good looking ones? I lot of major antagonists tend to get a better deal than the regular chapter bosses.

 

Yeah that's why I put Jarod up there with Isaiya. He's scowling and glaring, but he doesn't look halfway bandity. If he wasn't pretty much looking like he was telling the world "up yours" he'd pass as a recruitable ally I think.

@Hardin OMG that Oliver thing. Priceless.

Edited by Dragoncat
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