Weapon weight

[Pikappa93]

I've just noticed this from PAX East footage and I haven't seen it being discussed in other threads - it appears weapon weight is back.

For those who don't know, Weight is a weapon stat that can affect a character's Speed (with some differences and other additional effects that vary between later Fire Emblem titles). This particular mechanic was abandoned in most recent titles (New Mystery, Awakening and Fates, as far as I know). What do you guys think about it making a return?

Edited March 18, 2017 by Pikappa93

[Tryhard]

In Gaiden it was flat speed reduction. There is no Constitution-like stat.

Weight is fine and I probably prefer it being in, but I also didn't really mind it when it was removed.

[Azz]

I'm g with it honestly. Though I can already ready hear people complaining about it like some have with the removal of phoenix mode and marriage.

[Pikappa93]

9 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

In Gaiden it was flat speed reduction. There is no Constitution-like stat.

Right, I was unsure about that.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays in actual gameplay since they're reprising almost any single feature from the original Gaiden.

[escotanner]

I don't really care to be honest, but it'll help players think more strategically with it being back in.

[FoxyGrandpa]

I honestly never liked weight since it creates a lot of weapon unbalance (i.e. Magic in genealogy). I probably won't mind it too much when the game comes out, buy I felt that Fate's system to give characters flat speed penalties when using CERTAIN weapons was overall better.

[Junkhead]

I missed Wt.

[EvilElectro]

3 hours ago, Azz said:

I'm g with it honestly. Though I can already ready hear people complaining about it like some have with the removal of phoenix mode and marriage.

Wait, have people actually started to complain about marriages? Jeez, New 3DS Players don't really understand how the series ACUTALLY was.

 

I think that addind weight both is good and bad, considering there was no constitution in Gaiden, though it might be interesting for it have weight in the game.

[Lord Tullus]

I really liked weapon weight, and personally, I think that Fates's weapon penalties were just over-complicated forms of weight.  For the most part, many weapons just reduced your speed or made it impossible for one to double attack, and that's basically what weight did.    Weight was more simple, and if you used the right characters with the right stats, weight became less of a penalty, if there was any at all.  You were rewarded with using the "right" weapons in a simple way, similar to how they worked in fates.  Only one major difference.  Silver weapons weren't complete Bull Sh*t.

[Vaximillian]

35 minutes ago, EvilElectro said:

Jeez, New 3DS Players don't really understand how the series ACUTALLY was.

The line is thin and not crossing it is a feat.

[Shadow Mir]

56 minutes ago, Lord Tullus said:

I really liked weapon weight, and personally, I think that Fates's weapon penalties were just over-complicated forms of weight.  For the most part, many weapons just reduced your speed or made it impossible for one to double attack, and that's basically what weight did.    Weight was more simple, and if you used the right characters with the right stats, weight became less of a penalty, if there was any at all.  You were rewarded with using the "right" weapons in a simple way, similar to how they worked in fates.  Only one major difference.  Silver weapons weren't complete Bull Sh*t.

I'd honestly say weight was no better, considering its tendency to give birth to severe weapon imbalance (See: Genealogy and the GBA games).

[Lord Tullus]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I'd honestly say weight was no better, considering its tendency to give birth to severe weapon imbalance (See: Genealogy and the GBA games).

Like I said, if you used them on the right people at the right time, there really was no issue.  I just found Fates's system to be more confusing and a poor replacement for the weight mechanic.  Everything is put in to balance things out, and working aroud them to suit your needs is an important part of efficient strategy in Fire Emblem, in my opinion.  Imbalance was never a problem for me, and I actually prefer it that way, as it gives me reason to use one thing over another.

[Shadow Mir]

24 minutes ago, Lord Tullus said:

Like I said, if you used them on the right people at the right time, there really was no issue.  I just found Fates's system to be more confusing and a poor replacement for the weight mechanic.  Everything is put in to balance things out, and working aroud them to suit your needs is an important part of efficient strategy in Fire Emblem, in my opinion.  Imbalance was never a problem for me, and I actually prefer it that way, as it gives me reason to use one thing over another.

I just think it gets stupid when entire weapon types are rendered unusable (see: Genealogy) or a subset of units clearly get shafted by weight (see: the GBA games). Also, while I do have some complaints with Fates' weapon system, silvers' usability wasn't one of them - there are worse, like the "Great" Club or Beruka's Axe.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Quote

I missed Wt.

absolutely same

It's a mechanic which made Fire Emblem to what it was till FE10.
FE11 messed it up by adding Tellius's weapon weight system because it had no real point aside of screwing magic users.
 

[Dandy Druid]

Me: Oh yeah weight. That's so FE, it'll really make it challenging to decide which weapons to use and when.

Also Me: yeah this will screw me over and I can see female characters like Faye and Clair getting screwed over by it.

[Pikappa93]

8 hours ago, Lord Tullus said:

I really liked weapon weight, and personally, I think that Fates's weapon penalties were just over-complicated forms of weight.  For the most part, many weapons just reduced your speed or made it impossible for one to double attack, and that's basically what weight did.    Weight was more simple, and if you used the right characters with the right stats, weight became less of a penalty, if there was any at all.  You were rewarded with using the "right" weapons in a simple way, similar to how they worked in fates.  Only one major difference.  Silver weapons weren't complete Bull Sh*t.

I actually have mixed feelings about Fates's system, but I agree it was over-complicated at times, especially with certain weapons (there was a LOT to keep in mind about stat changes). Weight is certainly simpler and sometimes simple is just better.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Pikappa93

[ChibiToastExplosion]

3 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

Also Me: yeah this will screw me over and I can see female characters like Faye and Clair getting screwed over by it.

Weapons in Gaiden had a set AS penalty, and there was no con.

Everyone was screwed equally - simple is, in fact, better.

[SpearOfLies]

I don't dislike fates's weapon system. I dislike the enorme variety of weapon be pointless or overpower by the forge. Bronze aside, using the same material weapon to forge a better weapon is less 1 damage but 5 more hit and less malus and less rank weapon and same cost(plus a gem but easy farmable) than the better material weapon. Most of "strong" weapon without forge are basically usable only as finish hit.

From far I can see. The weight system is reveal only for the magic. The weapon side may have same as hoshidan weapon. I speculate only skill have "weight".

[hinode]

We've already seen from the PAX East footage that Steel Sword reduces speed by 1 and Iron Bow reduces speed by 2.

The big quirk to tome weight in Gaiden which I presume will carry over to this game is that IIRC the mages would always default to Fire on enemy phase, regardless of what you used on player phase. This made heavy spells like Aura and Ragnarok less of a liability than they would be in more conventional FEs with equipment weight.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, SpearOfLies said:

I don't dislike fates's weapon system. I dislike the enorme variety of weapon be pointless or overpower by the forge. Bronze aside, using the same material weapon to forge a better weapon is less 1 damage but 5 more hit and less malus and less rank weapon and same cost(plus a gem but easy farmable) than the better material weapon. Most of "strong" weapon without forge are basically usable only as finish hit.

From far I can see. The weight system is reveal only for the magic. The weapon side may have same as hoshidan weapon. I speculate only skill have "weight".

My big issue with the forge in Fates is that it was impractical, not to mention practically unusable.

[thecrimsonflash]

48 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

My big issue with the forge in Fates is that it was impractical, not to mention practically unusable.

While it was impractical, the weapons that it could produce were incredibly broken, a +7 silver yumi has a might of 27 which beats the pursuer by 5 and to top that can be used by anyone who can use bows.

Still can't figure out the logic behind putting two bows together to make a better one though.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, thecrimsonflash said:

While it was impractical, the weapons that it could produce were incredibly broken, a +7 silver yumi has a might of 27 which beats the pursuer by 5 and to top that can be used by anyone who can use bows.

Still can't figure out the logic behind putting two bows together to make a better one though.

Given that you need like half a million gold to get a silver to +7, as well as it being tedious as all get out, I am, to say the least, unimpressed. It doesn't help that Fates has no postgame to speak of...

Edited March 19, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Pikappa93]

6 hours ago, hinode said:

The big quirk to tome weight in Gaiden which I presume will carry over to this game is that IIRC the mages would always default to Fire on enemy phase, regardless of what you used on player phase. This made heavy spells like Aura and Ragnarok less of a liability than they would be in more conventional FEs with equipment weight.

I can see this being fixed in Echoes (hopefully).

I always found it weird for spells to have weight, since technically they aren't "tomes" (even in the animation the mages are shown holding no weapons). Is it the weight of knowledge or what...?

Edited March 19, 2017 by Pikappa93

[ChibiToastExplosion]

1 minute ago, Pikappa93 said:

I can see this being fixed in Echoes (hopefully).

I always found it weird for spells to have weight, since technically they aren't "tomes" (even in the animation the mages are shown holding no weapons). Is it the weight of knowledge or what...?

No - you don't want mages casting 3-4 hp spells willy nilly on return - especially since they can always take 1 damage.

I take it to mean chanting time. Fire is quick, basic and easy, while something like excalibur requires a lot of  time to prep in comparison. The "weight" of the spell does exactly what "chant time" would have intended - reduced attack speed on the more powerful spells (and remember, 1 speed over is a double attack).

[Azure Sen]

10 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

No - you don't want mages casting 3-4 hp spells willy nilly on return - especially since they can always take 1 damage.

I wouldn't mind being able to choose which spell you counter with as a compromise. That way on enemy turns when your mages see a lot of action they won't get overwhelmed by casting spells, but they can dish out more damage when less enemies are around or you're trying to goad an enemy into attacking.

Anyway, I'm glad to see they're keeping weapon weight. I've always preferred it to Fates' mess of a weapon system.

Edited March 19, 2017 by AzureSen