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Mechanics in FE you wished they never had been added


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It can be mechanics which were introduced just for one or a few parts or mechanics which still exist.

My list:

FE5

  • no guaranteed hit and miss (1-99% hitrate)
  • fatigue: I like the idea but not how's implemented there. An other stat like exp. should affect when you get tired. It punishes the player too much and lower leveled units who need exp. to catch up suffer more than higher leveled units.
  • staves can miss
  • traps like in 24x


FE6

  • nerfing the accuracy of axes and lances
  • constitution in all GBA parts: It's the most unbalanced weapon weight system (behind FE11) because it disadvantages females and certain classes.

 

FE10

  • removing of weapon triangle (in hard mode)

 

FE11

  • reclassing: I hate reclassing in general but espcially how it's handled in the Akaneia remakes. You can reclass at any time. The originality of an unit is lost when it can become to any class later in the game. It appears unplausible to me. 
  • adding Tellius's weapon weight system: bad for mages who have no strength growth
  • the conditions how to get all the sidequests

 

FE12

  • avatar: It's nice to create an unit but it should match with the story. In none of the latest parts it plays a good role. In FE12 it's just a bland character who tends to steal Marth the spotlight. 

 

FE13

  • lunatic (+) skills for the enemies

 

Fates

  • unbreakable weapons


Revelations

  • adding some map mechanics like traps, moving elevators or doors where you have to gamble to pick the right one not to get screwed

 

Edited by Magillanica Lou Mayvin
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This topic. ;/

Anyway, the only mechanic I really didn't like is the ability to strip the enemies.  Raider weapons are great, and Sophie is usually decent, but that effect is part of the reason why map animations are permanently turned off.

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1 hour ago, Magillanica Lou Mayvin said:

FE6

  • nerfing the accuracy of axes and lances

This. This was so annoying and unfair to every non sword and non magic user.

Reclassing, unlimited supports (not necessarily bad but Iimited means I have to choose which characters would provide the best support) and avatars because they basically just steal the spotlight most of the time.

The Arran and Samson archetype. I like to recruit all characters. This archetype prevents me from doing just that.

The Beowulf archetype. Paying my money to a unit who may or may not actually be a good unit, and if you don't have enough money you basically can never recruit them? No wonder why I like Rennac more compared to the others. At least I can recruit through a certain character. Hugh is probably the worst of this archetype, since his stats reduce as the payment goes lower, making it more worthless to recruit him in the first place (and I like Hugh, so don't question why I would use him in the first place). The best Beowulf archetype character, besides Rennac, is Beowulf himself, since every character has their own separate money in FE4, so having a character like Sigurd give him money is not much of a problem, seeing as how Sigurd can just earn money since he's so OP, and only his money is lost.

The Triangle attack. I don't wish it to not have been added, to be exact, but let's be honest, how many times does one trigger it in a playthrough of any FE game where you can do it? Because I barely ever get to do it. Might as well just remove it due to the requirements needed to do it. Or keep it as some secret attack. But in the end, it's not really useful when I barely ever initiate it.

 

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29 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

The Triangle attack. I don't wish it to not have been added, to be exact, but let's be honest, how many times does one trigger it in a playthrough of any FE game where you can do it? Because I barely ever get to do it. Might as well just remove it due to the requirements needed to do it. Or keep it as some secret attack. But in the end, it's not really useful when I barely ever initiate it.

I've used it repeatedly in two of my four playthroughs of Sacred Stones, and the only reason I haven't in Blazing Blade is because I haven't recruited Farina yet.

From a non-biased perspective, maybe a Triangle Attack with characters of different classes, like Tellius's three brothers (Sniper/Warrior/Paladin) might be more widely appealing.

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48 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

I've used it repeatedly in two of my four playthroughs of Sacred Stones, and the only reason I haven't in Blazing Blade is because I haven't recruited Farina yet.

My main problem is having to have three of the same class units fight in a chapter. Eh, I usually have units of different classes. There's also the problem that I don't keep those characters close to each other often.

 

 

49 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

From a non-biased perspective, maybe a Triangle Attack with characters of different classes, like Tellius's three brothers (Sniper/Warrior/Paladin) might be more widely appealing.

Yeah, this way, it might become easier to initiate the attack.

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1 minute ago, Flee Fleet! said:

My main problem is having to have three of the same class units fight in a chapter. Eh, I usually have units of different classes. There's also the problem that I don't keep those characters close to each other often.

 

 

Yeah, this way, it might become easier to initiate the attack.

...Eh, in Sacred Stones, Syrene is hardly worth anything but being TA fodder. I used her once as a curiosity and once because I was doing an All-Girls run.

Then again, most people like to change the good pegs into wyverns, and that complicates the Triangle Attack way more than necessary.

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4 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

...Eh, in Sacred Stones, Syrene is hardly worth anything but being TA fodder. I used her once as a curiosity and once because I was doing an All-Girls run.

Then again, most people like to change the good pegs into wyverns, and that complicates the Triangle Attack way more than necessary.

Syrene can turn usable after a few level ups, but she ain't that great.

I usually turn Vanessa into a falcon knight, but then that means Tana, who is usually the Wyvern knight, can only initiate the attack, so yeah, it is complicated.

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...Honestly, my preference for the Triangle Attack (if they bring it back) is mainly that it can be used to help out an Est-type character when they're still dealing low, inaccurate damage. FE6's Armour Triangle clearly tried, but it hardly helps Gwendolyn.

 

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Theres actually zero issue for Syrene aside from jointime. She had acceptable base stats and her weapon rank is great since she can basically use anything she wants from the get go

 

Also the problem with Triangle Attack is just the positioning really. Triple Pegasus is the best incarnation of the mechanic because Pegasus is the second best class in the game and Pegasus had the highest movement freedom

Edited by JSND
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Syrene kills Gorgon eggs at base easily enough, thats quite a bit of utility. 

Also I'm not particularly fond of pair up, but its hit & miss for me at best, I quite like most of the mechanics FE has experimented with over the years.

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30 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

...Honestly, my preference for the Triangle Attack (if they bring it back) is mainly that it can be used to help out an Est-type character when they're still dealing low, inaccurate damage. FE6's Armour Triangle clearly tried, but it hardly helps Gwendolyn.

If the Est character is not a magical unit or some archer, then maybe, but most Est types are magical units, so ranged attack plus maybe some good luck and buffs could make it easier for them to steal kills.

Also, let's just forget about the Armour triangle attack. Two of them are bad as they are, especially Barth, and it's quite difficult to have Gwendolyn level up to just be able to fight on her own. So, compared to the peg attack, this one is way more difficult to pull off (maybe in the first chapter Wendy comes in, but other than that, too difficult).

34 minutes ago, JSND said:

Theres actually zero issue for Syrene aside from jointime. She had acceptable base stats and her weapon rank is great since she can basically use anything she wants from the get go

 

Also the problem with Triangle Attack is just the positioning really. Triple Pegasus is the best incarnation of the mechanic because Pegasus is the second best class in the game and Pegasus had the highest movement freedom

Unless you're playing SS the "classical" way, everyone else, even Vanessa and Tana, usually have better stats than Syrene (and there's also the fact they're available before her, but since you already stated that...), So Syrene is pretty much a backup character that upon having more level ups, may just be on par with some of the other characters, but otherwise she doesn't have much of other usability when the other flier units can do it better, considering they're promoted or level'd up. She can kill Gorgon Eggs at base though, like @Jedi said, and is still a flier so she has more movement.

Regarding the Triangle attack, yeah that's also one of the reasons it's hard for me to initiate it. But the Pegasus TA is obviously the best one for the reasons you stated.

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Nothing you said is reasonable justification for wishing it'd never been added.  It's not useful doesn't equate to detracting from the game.

7 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Also I'm not particularly fond of pair up, but its hit & miss for me at best, I quite like most of the mechanics FE has experimented with over the years.

Yeah, I liked rescue more than pair up.

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3 minutes ago, Refa said:

Nothing you said is reasonable justification for wishing it'd never been added.  It's not useful doesn't equate to detracting from the game.

which is why I said I don't want it to be gone to be exact, and keeping it as a secret attack or just for fun is fine enough.

 

Besides I'm mostly going here with my opinion, so yeah, I'll admit, it's not reasonable.

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Just now, Flee Fleet! said:

which is why I said I don't want it to be gone to be exact, and keeping it as a secret attack or just for fun is fine enough.

 

Besides I'm mostly going here with my opinion, so yeah, I'll admit, it's not reasonable.

...Wasn't it already a secret attack? I don't recall it ever being mentioned outside of FE9's base conversations.

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Just now, phineas81707 said:

...Wasn't it already a secret attack? I don't recall it ever being mentioned outside of FE9's base conversations.

I know. Okay I worded it kinda wrongly, sorry.

In the end, I just don't find it worth to try due to it's requirements. If it was initiated by characters that aren't of the same class, then maybe I would have like it more. 

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27 minutes ago, Refa said:

Yeah, I liked rescue more than pair up.

Maybe FE Switch will bring rescue back, but all odds point to them doing something new or just sticking with pair up I think.

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Pair up (CAN'T STAND IT AT ALL)

avatars (Mary Sue spotlight hogs that I'd happily throw into a fiery abyss)

reclassing (Removes unit individuality, imo)

children in Fates only (they're completely fine in FE4 and I can live with it in FE13 since at least there's a plot reason for it.  Fates' explanation is literally the most stupid thing in the world.)

everyone/everyone support systems (FE10 just kinda defeated the point of supports in the first place with its system, FE13/14 were more a quantity over quality issue)

one magic weapon level in FE13-14 (major step back in diversifying magic)

Fates putting magic in one spot in the weapon triangle and putting bows in it at all (Heroes integrated triangle is 1000x better, it's not even funny).

weapon weight (I've yet to see this mechanic actually balanced)

FE11 Gaiden requisites (I'm still baffled how anyone could have thought that rewarding bad play is a good idea)

Ashnard's blessed armor (If I want to kill the final boss with Elincia, let me kill the final boss with Elincia).

Ashera having to be killed by Ike (You think I want to give that stupid spotlight hog more spotlight?  At least let me use Micaiah to kill her, come on.  It's better than Ashnard's dumb armor preventing other units from even touching him, though).  

One S Rank weapon in FE7-8.  FE6 had the right idea here, at least imo.

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5 hours ago, Refa said:

Nothing you said is reasonable justification for wishing it'd never been added.  It's not useful doesn't equate to detracting from the game.

Yeah, I liked rescue more than pair up.

 

4 hours ago, Jedi said:

Maybe FE Switch will bring rescue back, but all odds point to them doing something new or just sticking with pair up I think.

Technically speaking, rescue did return in Fates, but as an Skill. They could put both pair up and rescue in a game, but not make either of them a skill.

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Children (mostly because of the next two points)
S-supports
Everyone x Everyone supports
Avatar-sexuals
Biorhythm
Shadow Dragon Gaidens
Obscure secret character/chapter requirements like FE7 and FE10

Do these count? They aren't done well in the game they appear in but they get improved later:
Support point gaining method in GBA (Improved in the 3DS titles)
Awakening pair-up (Improved in Fates)

4 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

one magic weapon level in FE13-14 (major step back in diversifying magic)

Fates putting magic in one spot in the weapon triangle and putting bows in it at all (Heroes integrated triangle is 1000x better, it's not even funny).

I'm curious about this. Correct me if I'm wrong but magic wasn't a part of the physical triangle until Fates and even within their own triangle, it wasn't that significant. Why was it bad that bows were added to the triangle, especially if magic was neutral to physical units until Fates? As far as there being only one tome rank, as much as I want Dark/Light magic to make a return, there were plenty of tome options in Fates.

 

Edited by NekoKnight
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1 hour ago, Water Mage said:

Technically speaking, rescue did return in Fates, but as an Skill. They could put both pair up and rescue in a game, but not make either of them a skill.

Pair Up has no negatives, but rescue does, don't really count the skill shelter considering it just uses pair up again, it doesn't have the risk that old rescue had, therefore I don't count it as such.

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1 minute ago, NekoKnight said:

Children
S-supports
Everyone x Everyone supports
Avatar-sexuals
Biorhythm
Shadow Dragon Gaidens
Obscure secret character/chapter requirements like FE7 and FE10

Do these count? They aren't done well in the game they appear in but they get improved later:
Support point gaining method in GBA (Improved in the 3DS titles)
Awakening pair-up (Improved in Fates)

I'm curious about this. Correct me if I'm wrong but magic wasn't a part of the physical triangle until Fates and even within their own triangle, it wasn't that significant. Why was it bad that bows were added to the triangle, especially if until Fates magic was neutral to physical units until Fates? As far as there being only one tome rank, as much as I want Dark/Light magic to make a return, there were plenty of tome options in Fates.

 

More or less, they do a good job at diversifying physical classes, and I see the presence of only one magic rank as being a step backward in the process of achieving the same diversity with magic classes, something FE has yet to really pounce on as much as I'd like them to.

On top of that, having only one weapon type target res and having that be in the triangle and affected by it seems silly to me, rather than having different magic types for each spot, which is what Heroes basically does.  That way, there is a def targeting weapon and a res targeting weapon in each corner.

As for bows, it's more just personal preference due to the desire for 1 magic weapon/1 physical weapon in each corner.

Sorry if that seems silly.

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Lemme see...

-Power fantasy Avatars (2 out of 3 can drink all of the chode, Robin is fine but Kris and Corrin are a disgrace)

-FE11's Gaiden chapters (The most anti-strategy mechanic out there)

-Awakening's Lunatic and + (Unbalanced as heck)

-Missing staves in Thracia (self-explanatory)

 

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Hmm I can only comment on the games I have played (FE 8,9,10,11,13,14)

-Gaiden Chapters in Fe 11(I mean really?)

-Random Skills given to enemies in FE 13 (mainly Lunatic+ unbalanced as hell... The skills could have actually worked if they were fixed to particular units but Random really?)

-Children shoe ins in Fates... Why? there was no need for kids here -_- They actually hurt the "story" more than they help >_<

-Unbalanced Weapon Penalties  for Fates (I've come to realize The removal of durability is fine and actually beneficial for the future of the series however the penalties of most B+ weapons out weigh any use they might have particularly the Silver tier...)

FE in general with gender locked classes...

FE 14 removing magic types completely(FE 13 at least still had Dark Fire Wind and Thunder... If they just added Light and magic weapon triangles back(if made significant enough to matter) it would have been fine especially if the magic types were better differentiated... And the fact that there is only one Dark magic spell makes the ability to use it absolutely useless...)

FE 14 route split money grab(The class tree in particular suffered it is hideous in Fates everything is just wrong with an absurd amount of redundancy... *vomits*)

-Over emphasized badly characterized Avatars (So far only Robin was done well story wise though Robin should have been restricted class wise like other characters)

-FE  14's abomination of a weapon triangle... Leave Knives Bows out and let magic be separate again...

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-Locking double attacks behind Pursuit in Genealogy. Just...never again, IntSys.

-For that matter, Genealogy's unnecessarily convoluted item management system. The only thing stopping it from being worse is that you have plenty of money to burn in FE4.

-Staves being able to miss and double in Thracia. So many wasted staff uses in a game where you can't afford to waste anything.

-Fatigue. It could work if more carefully balanced, but Thracia's implementation just punishes the player for using useful units and ignoring less than useful units.

-Shadow Dragon's gaiden requirements. I do wonder what brief bout of madness inspired a recruitment method so antithetical to how much of the fanbase plays the game.

-One rank for magic. It was fine in Shadow Dragon and New Mystery where the original games didn't have multiple types of magic, but Awakening and Fates have no excuse, since they effectively have both Anima and Dark magic (even if it's only one tome in Fates).

-The Avatar. Gameplay-wise they've never been balanced for a number of reasons (Kris having better growths than most everyone in any given role, and Corrin and Robin having access to almost every class), and story-wise they tend to absorb all of the screentime even when they're ostensibly not the main lord.

-Support systems designed for the express purpose of pairing off everyone into marriages. Quantity over quality is the operative mode here, and it shows.

-Similarly, the Avatar-sexuals, who tend to be huge wastes of potential because they can only support Robin or Kamui and maybe two or three other people at best.

-Fates' weapon balancing system. It's absolutely awful in terms of actual balance, and you can subvert it completely with a little forging.

-Fates' throwing > magic > bows > throwing weapon triangle. Bows should never be part of a weapon triangle, and throwing and bows are too overpowered in Fates to make WTD hampering to anyone who isn't a magic user.

-Skills like Poison Strike and Savage Blow that deal damage outside of battle. The only upside is that they can't kill a unit on their own, but that doesn't matter when Fates (especially Conquest) throws several of them at you at once.

-The Hexing Rod. A status effect that cuts your HP in half and can't be cured or go away on its own is BS difficulty that would make Thracia proud.

That's all the ones I can think of, at least for the moment.

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