Grand Hero Battle: Michalis

[shadowofchaos]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I never said Sully wouldn't have taken a hit from the sword cavalier. She would have, but with -def, she would've died from someone else right after. Would've never risked that.

Ana, where is your calculations? Proof? What is the positioning? Because with 3 mov, if Sully one rounded the Sword Cavalier, there is *NO ONE* that can reach her on the next turn.

"Back up your statement, Ana".

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

And the difference between you and those other people is that those other people haven't repeatedly badgered me. You have. In many threads. Many times. And it's uncalled for regardless of whether I'm right or wrong.

There is no rule that states that I am not free to criticize your statements.

And none of them are ever personal attacks. You take them as such. Most of your supposed "badgering incidents" are centered around gameplay.

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

This is why I keep telling you to stop bothering me and to leave me alone.

The same thing you've told others on the forums many times.

Has it ever occurred to you that the problem may be that you like to walk into threads making statements you can't back up?

 

[MrSmokestack]

16 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

No, it has nothing to with whether I'm right or wrong, I'm tired of you calling me out on every single little fucking thing, complaining about my decisions in a game, and accusing me of being things that I'm not.

I'm not accusing anyone of "bullying" me except you. No one else criticizes me and picks on me nearly as much as you do.

I'm afraid to be wrong? lol that's hilarious and far from the truth. I might be wrong a little more often than I'd like, but I'm not afraid to be wrong at all.

Yet you're the only one "questioning" my opinions as much as you do. Also, just because you disagree with an opinion I have doesn't mean it needs to be questioned or argued.

I'm getting the strange vibe that we now live in a universe where math is subjective and can't be argued.

At least where I come from, numbers don't lie, unless you got them wrong to begin with.

What opinion, exactly, is being attacked here? Saying "I don't like Sully" or literally any other unit is fine and not something that has to be "nitpicked", but saying "X unit is trash, can't take a hit etc" falls into an objective field, where it can be either affirmed or disproved.

No one here is harassing you. Harassment would be stalking your profile, sending inappropriate PM's, etc. All that's really been going on here for the past two months is you making a point that can be ***objectively*** proven false, someone here counters it--that's quite a lot of people that have done that to you besides Shadowofchaos--and making a fuss about it.

Absolutely no one who has proved you wrong on anything here--anything that you've ever said--has ever done so in a demeaning or insulting way. Tone can be lost through text over the Internet but no one here makes critiques of your points out of ill will. No one has called you an idiot or anything of the sort. You might conclude that being proven wrong makes you look stupid, but unless you're adamant about it, it's not the case at all.

 

Whether you percieve it a certain way or not, virtually everyone here is only trying to help you. Why would be bother responding to you if we didn't care about you or being able to enjoy the game? We know you're not very good at Heroes, as you've said it yourself a number of times already, but that's exactly what these criticisms are for--to help you identify your mistakes and know what ought to be done next time. You've made a lot of choices that can't be undone at this point, but all that can be done is to recognize them, know that you aren't defined by them, and move on. That's all anyone can do at the end of the day, really.

 

Welp the thread got derailed again.

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Ana, where is your calculations? Proof? What is the positioning? Because with 3 mov, if Sully one rounded the Sword Cavalier, there is *NO ONE* that can reach her on the next turn.

"Back up your statement, Ana".

Okay then. I can't move her anymore after she finishes off the sword cavalier though. The blue Peg and Michalis can reach her and pick her off right after. I did a similar test with Sharena after she knocked out the sword cavalier.

EDIT: MrSmokeStack, I realize most people in here were just trying to help me. I never contested that. It's only SOC that has not been helpful in any way. Nobody else has been in the wrong here at all, not you, not Vaximilian, not anyone else.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Anacybele

[MrSmokestack]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

EDIT: MrSmokeStack, I realize most people in here were just trying to help me. I never contested that. It's only SOC that has not been helpful in any way. Nobody else has been in the wrong here at all, not you, not Vaximilian, not anyone else.

If anything, @shadowofchaos seems to care more about helping you than anyone else here, given how many times he has posted compared to the others. He might not get his point across in the most receptive way possible, but his arguements are on point regardless.

And no offense, but his summaries on your conduct are very apt and he puts it better than anyone else could here, me included. 

[Anacybele]

7 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

If anything, @shadowofchaos seems to care more about helping you than anyone else here, given how many times he has posted compared to the others. He might not get his point across in the most receptive way possible, but his arguements are on point regardless.

And no offense, but his summaries on your conduct are very apt and he puts it better than anyone else could here, me included. 

I disagree. He's never anything more than rude, incorrect, and unhelpful about me. All he basically does is tell me I do terrible things and am a terrible person that can't learn anything. And I've had actual helpful people help me with my issues over the years. They never acted like him at all and they still got their point across and helped. If it wasn't for people like them, I'd be as awful as I was roughly ten years ago.

So bingo, he doesn't get his point across in the most receptive way possible. There are better ways to help people.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Anacybele

[Arcanite]

I'm not a mod or anything but this the Grand Hero Battle Michalis thread, not the "Shadow of Chaos and Anacybele" thread. We should probably stop before someone sarts sending out warning points!

[MrSmokestack]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I disagree. He's never anything more than rude, incorrect, and unhelpful about me. And I've had actual helpful people help me with my issues over the years. They never acted like him at all.

I'm not going to comment on people who have been "helpful to you", but I doubt a player with his experience can be any of the three things you mentioned. Has he been proven wrong on any of the points he's made in discussions where both you and him were involved? No. Is he frank about your points being so far off the mark that they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn? Yes. But frankness **is not** rudeness. Has he at any point resorted to explicity making insulting remarks about your intelligence? No.

 

In any case, I'm seeing myself out of this thread until things quiet down. Most everybody recognizes you have been wrong on virtually every point you've made about x unit being "trash" but are too polite to drill it into your head. I've said my share and it's clear that the direction this thread is heading is "nowhere" so I'm going to stop.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I'm not going to comment on people who have been "helpful to you", but I doubt a player with his experience can be any of the three things you mentioned. Has he been proven wrong on any of the points he's made in discussions where both you and him were involved? No. Is he frank about your points being so far off the mark that they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn? Yes. But frankness **is not** rudeness. Has he at any point resorted to explicity making insulting remarks about your intelligence? No.

 

In any case, I'm seeing myself out of this thread until things quiet down. Most everybody recognizes you have been wrong on virtually every point you've made about x unit being "trash" but are too polite to drill it into your head. I've said my share and it's clear that the direction this thread is heading is "nowhere" so I'm going to stop.

Gaming experience =/= rude and unhelpful. I'm talking about when he points out things about me specifically, not so much the game. I'm sure he's right about the game things most of the time since yes, he is very experienced (and he has been helpful more often than not on that front, I admit). Also, just because he's experienced doesn't mean he can't be wrong.

I haven't been wrong that much though. Maybe some of my points have been, but certainly not all of them. But yes, this needs to just be dropped. I don't want this to get derailed any further.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Anacybele

[TheTuckingFypo]

10 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

If anything, @shadowofchaos seems to care more about helping you than anyone else here, given how many times he has posted compared to the others. He might not get his

point across in the most receptive way possible, but his arguements are on point regardless.

And no offense, but his summaries on your conduct are very apt and he puts it better than anyone else could here, me included. 

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I disagree. He's never anything more than rude, incorrect, and unhelpful about me. All he basically does is tell me I do terrible things and am a terrible person that can't learn anything. And I've had actual helpful people help me with my issues over the years. They never acted like him at all and they still got their point across and helped. If it wasn't for people like them, I'd be as awful as I was roughly ten years ago.

So bingo, he doesn't get his point across in the most receptive way possible. There are better ways to help people.

19 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Ana, where is your calculations? Proof? What is the positioning? Because with 3 mov, if Sully one rounded the Sword Cavalier, there is *NO ONE* that can reach her on the next turn.

"Back up your statement, Ana".

There is no rule that states that I am not free to criticize your statements.

And none of them are ever personal attacks. You take them as such. Most of your supposed "badgering incidents" are centered around gameplay.

The same thing you've told others on the forums many times.

Has it ever occurred to you that the problem may be that you like to walk into threads making statements you can't back up?

 

Guys. Just. Stop. 

1 minute ago, Arcanite said:

I'm not a mod or anything but this the Grand Hero Battle Michalis thread, not the "Shadow of Chaos and Anacybele" thread. We should probably stop before someone sarts sending out warning points!

Thank you. This is getting out of hand. As a bystander that sees both sides of the argument, I can sympathize with each side. However I am unwilling to pick sides. It will not do anyone any better on here.

Anyways.

@Arcanite @MrSmokestack @MaskedAmpharos.... I forgot whom else is in the bet....

Most of my units suggested are ready. Selena, Olivia and Tharja still have a couple levels to go (and i need more stamina) but otherwise I'm ready.

[r4v1sh]

6 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

For the record, since Eclipse brought up "Try. It. First." and "Your attitude with units stinks" and I missed this post...

You should do calculations before bringing up natures.

Sully has 21 def on -def nature for a 4 star. Also has swordbreaker.

A swordie has at most 50 atk on the map. 56 with death blow 3.

56 * .2 = 11.2

Sapphire lance = 22.4 round down 22

56 - 22 = 34 atk

34 - 21 = 13

On player phase it's 9.

Frederick also has fortify def possibly reducing it even further.

Your "couldn't take a hit" statement is based nothing but that word "-def".

So again, unit value over "getting rid of them for skills".

Abel can one round, but due to spd penalty from brave lance and lack of bonuses from sapphire lance, they can't one round on enemy phase reliably unless their hp is up.

So as eclipse said later is pretty much addressing posts like these. They have different niches. Abel is not inherently better than Sully. Abel requires you to be more offensive. Which is something you take into account when doing skill inheritance as someone suggested you sacrifice Abel instead.

Someone please correct me if I got calculations wrong here.

This has really gone out of topic but... If I can add anything at this point, -def Sully actually has 19 def at 4*. After being hit by the cavalier on Michalis map, she can't take a hit from anything else (mine also didn't OHKO him either), save maybe from the swordie pegasus.
In my experience, tough, she performs better than Abel (I tried both, both are -def). I just beat the map using her to bait the cavalier, but that was abusing draw back and Leo's Brynhildr (and it also took me awhile because of sheer dumbness).

The interesting fact is that, by shoving Sully forward and placing her just in front of the red cav, Michalis breaks away from the pegasi, going north after her (or, at least, that happened with my line-up 5*Roy, 5* Leo, 5*Fae and 4*Sully).

Edited March 25, 2017 by r4v1sh

[Falcom]

1 hour ago, shadowofchaos said:

Uhh what. No. Michalis in that video was the same setup and replaced Narcien. But absolutely no inheritance was used.

I didn't watch that video until now and naturally assumed you need someone with an emerald axe. Then I realized there weren't any mages and Michalis had a higher defense and attack stat than I remembered. Whoops. 

[Arcanite]

2 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

Guys. Just. Stop. 

Thank you. This is getting out of hand. As a bystander that sees both sides of the argument, I can sympathize with each side. However I am unwilling to pick sides. It will not do anyone any better on here.

Anyways.

@Arcanite @MrSmokestack @MaskedAmpharos.... I forgot whom else is in the bet....

Most of my units suggested are ready. Selena, Olivia and Tharja still have a couple levels to go (and i need more stamina) but otherwise I'm ready.

Ah it is time ladies and gentlemen!

Whip out your pineapples cause Takumi is about to run through this thing. 

Btw, that is everyone involved in the bet. Heh heh heh

[Anacybele]

6 minutes ago, r4v1sh said:

This has really gone out of topic but... If I can add anything at this point, -def Sully actually has 19 def at 4*. After being hit by the cavalier on Michalis map, she can't take a hit from anything else (mine also didn't OHKO him either), save maybe from the swordie pegasus.
In my experience, tough, she performs better than Abel (I tried both, both are -def). I just beat the map using her to bait the cavalier, but that was abusing drag back and Leo's Brynhildr (and it also took me awhile because of sheer dumbness).

The interesting fact is that, by shoving Sully forward and placing her just in front of the red cav, Michalis breaks away from the pegasi, going north after her (or, at least, that happened with my line-up 5*Roy, 5* Leo, 5*Fae and 4*Sully).

Hmm, interesting... My Abel has consistently performed better than Sully did. He wasn't -def though, I'm pretty certain of that.

I really need to get my male Robin enough SP for Drag Back. I had him inherit it because I find that shenanigans from skills like this can help a lot. I just need to remember that it's there and not to use it by accident (sometimes I accidentally do the wrong thing on the map like fail to get a unit to attack when I'm trying to make it attack...).

EDIT: Woops, it's actually Draw Back I gave Robin, not Drag Back. lol

Edited March 25, 2017 by Anacybele

[shadowofchaos]

1 minute ago, r4v1sh said:

This has really gone out of topic but... If I can add anything at this point, -def Sully actually has 19 def at 4*. After being hit by the cavalier on Michalis map, she can't take a hit from anything else (mine also didn't OHKO him either), save maybe from the swordie pegasus.
In my experience, tough, she performs better than Abel (I tried both, both are -def). I just beat the map using her to bait the cavalier, but that was abusing drag back and Leo's Brynhildr (and it also took me awhile because of sheer dumbness).

The interesting fact is that, by shoving Sully forward and placing her just in front of the red cav, Michalis breaks away from the pegasi, going north after her (or, at least, that happened with my line-up 5*Roy, 5* Leo, 5*Fae and 4*Sully).

What was Sully's total ATK?

Really, Sully's job is to kill the sword cav, even on return enemy phase. If you get Sully into the enemy attack range, dance her with Olivia to get right in the swordie cav's face. It's effectively the same thing as Abel's Brave Lance.

Just now, Falcom said:

I didn't watch that video until now and naturally assumed you need someone with an emerald axe. Then I realized there weren't any mages and Michalis had a higher defense and attack stat than I remembered. Whoops. 

Ah I see.

[Ryu Yuki]

2 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Ah it is time ladies and gentlemen!

Whip out your pineapples cause Takumi is about to run through this thing. 

Btw, that is everyone involved in the bet. Heh heh heh

Out of curiosity, what kind of bet is this? Sorry, this is 34 pages long and I don't really want to go through the entire history. Also, it's kind of cool that shadowofchaos is Twitter buddies with the 3*s dude.

[TheTuckingFypo]

Just now, Arcanite said:

Ah it is time ladies and gentlemen!

Whip out your pineapples cause Takumi is about to run through this thing. 

Btw, that is everyone involved in the bet. Heh heh heh

Ah. 

So IIRC,

@Arcanite - Subaki, Selena, Narcian, Pineapple

@MrSmokestack - Subaki, Selena, Narcian, Olivia

@MaskedAmpharos - Subaki, Narcian, Tharja, Olivia?

----------

Huh. I coulda swore @Sire was in on the bet as well with another team...

I can update you on my character stats as well if you'd like. I have about half an hour before my next attempt.

[Arcanite]

5 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

Ah. 

So IIRC,

@Arcanite - Subaki, Selena, Narcian, Pineapple

@MrSmokestack - Subaki, Selena, Narcian, Olivia

@MaskedAmpharos - Subaki, Narcian, Tharja, Olivia?

----------

Huh. I coulda swore @Sire was in on the bet as well with another team...

I can update you on my character stats as well if you'd like. I have about half an hour before my next attempt.

Nah sire was just saying something about Amphy's team I think. But all the teams are correct. The stats don't need to be posted or anything, all we need is the turns it took to win!

[TheTuckingFypo]

Just now, Arcanite said:

Nah sire was just saying something about Amphy's team I think. But all the teams are correct. The stats don't need to be posted or anything, all we need is the turns it took to win!

Ah ok. I wasnt sure if his team was Selena or Olivia. I knew Tharja was there though. I'll fix that on my roster.

NOTE: Subaki has Savage Blow 3. I probably could inherit other skill from doubles. Open to suggestions.

[Dolce]

Oh my, is the bet still going on? I eagerly await to see if Tako-meme is victorious who wins haha.

In any case, I thought I would share how I beat the Lunatic mission for my sister, since I was intent on beating it for her too lol.

Team: Gordin, Jakob, Abel, and Marth. Of all of them, Abel was 4* and the others were 5*.

I basically just used the same strategy as how I beat it myself. Shoved Abel with Gordin in to KO the Red Cav and lure in Michalis. Then sniped the Blue Peg Knight with Gordin, then the Red Peg Knight on the next turn with Gordin, since both the Peg Knights flew towards the other units. The Lancer chose to follow Michalis and go after Abel, who I made tactically retreat aka run away back towards the other units waiting at the beginning of the map. I killed the Lancer first, with Gordin, then parked Marth in Michalis's range to lure him in. Finished Michalis off on the next turn with Marth.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Dolce

[r4v1sh]

52 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

What was Sully's total ATK?

Really, Sully's job is to kill the sword cav, even on return enemy phase. If you get Sully into the enemy attack range, dance her with Olivia to get right in the swordie cav's face. It's effectively the same thing as Abel's Brave Lance.

Ah I see.

My Sully is a -def +spd, with 18 def and 32 atk total (she's level 39). In my succesful Michalis run, I used her to bait Michalis into going north by placing her in front of the red cav. After the cav attacked her on his turn, he was left with 13 hp (if I attacked him first, he would kill her on enemy phase by triggering his special).
I then used Leo to lock red cavs movement and sully's draw back to position them out of his range (she was on Michalis threaten range, so she couldn't attack the cavalry this turn). Only on the third player phase I finished red cav off with sully.

Fae, Roy and Leo dealth with the pegasi on the south, Roy finished Michalis and Fae the remaining spearman. It's a bit of a pain to explain, since there was quite a bit of draw back repositioning and some brynhyldr shenanigans.
 

Edited March 25, 2017 by r4v1sh
...draw back is not drag back draw back is not drag back...

[Arcanite]

13 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

Ah ok. I wasnt sure if his team was Selena or Olivia. I knew Tharja was there though. I'll fix that on my roster.

NOTE: Subaki has Savage Blow 3. I probably could inherit other skill from doubles. Open to suggestions.

You can give bonfire for his Special trigger but if you don't have anything else to give him you should be fine. Esutcheon also really helps add to his bulk but I'd prefer bonfire if you have the SP for it.

[TheTuckingFypo]

Just now, Arcanite said:

You can give bonfire for his Special trigger but if you don't have anything else to give him you should be fine. Esutcheon also really helps add to his bulk but I'd prefer bonfire if you have the SP for it.

fair enough. actually, i was gonna give him Ignis afterwards if i get another henry.

[Punished Dayni]

Quick question on Drag Back: Will it work if the unit initiated the attack, but dies that round to the enemy?

[TheTuckingFypo]

1 minute ago, Dayni said:

Quick question on Drag Back: Will it work if the unit initiated the attack, but dies that round to the enemy?

nope. you should be fine

[Punished Dayni]

1 minute ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

nope. you should be fine

Good to know, because right now, my one bunch of units around level 40 are having the issue that Cherche is -Att, and barely can't kill the blue pegasus in 1 hit. Driving me mad it is.