If Eirika and Ephraim's Routes were simultaneous, who would recruit who?

[Jotari]

Sacred Stones took a lot of inspiration from Gaiden in design but one thing I've always found strange is how they split up Eirkia and Ephraim's routes over two playthroughs rather than let the player go through them at the same time like in Gaiden. On the plus side this gives us two different characteristics for Lyon (which I think he actually needs sorely since as much as he's praised as a villain his screen time is very brief), but on the down side it makes the game feel very brief and the plot a little disconnected. For some strange reason rather than giving us separate characters for each route, they just decided to throw in the same characters even though that makes little sense (with two exceptions per route).

So imagine for a second if they were both available on the same play through (and the cast was expanded so the other lord got new characters in the same general points). Which characters would be recited my Eirikia and which would be recruited by Ephraim? Vote in the poll above. Personally for me I always found Eirika's route to seem like busy work while Ephraim did all the actually plot important stuff, but the character recruitment do feel quite logically and natural for her (it's almost like they designed Eirika's route first and it became Act 2 and then made Ephraim's route and it naturally was written more like an Act 3 even though it's not).

Edited March 24, 2017 by Jotari

[Magical Glace]

With the exception of Amelia (who can really go either way since she's essentially a random soldier), basically everyone works better on Eirika's route, storywise.

[Augestein]

50 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

With the exception of Amelia (who can really go either way since she's essentially a random soldier), basically everyone works better on Eirika's route, storywise.

Pretty much. Although some like Tana work fine both ways as well, and the obvious ones that are route exclusive. Also Kyle and Forde work fine on Ephraim's route too. 

[Enaluxeme]

Now I want a remake with a proper split.

[bethany81707]

I'm writing a Sacred Stones story with exactly that.

I actually split some of the units you've grouped together up, though. Gerik and Tethys went with Innes Eirika while Ewan and Marisa were sent to Taizel by mistake, and in his bid for freedom, Rennac went to Grado rather than Jehanna.

(I think Ephraim might actually have gotten a lion's share of recruits, though that may just be my notes not counting Innes, Gerik and Tethys as 'characters recruited during the split').

[Interdimensional Observer]

Amelia obviously goes Ephraim's route- she is shoehorned into Erika 9.

Cormag- I so want him to go Eph's because I like him fighting Grado directly with Duessel, but he definitely is better developed on Eri's.

L'Arachel and her allies seem more suited to Ephy's for me, but without her, how will Eri 13 end?

The Gerik Mercenaries are better suited for Eri no doubt about that.

Tana, she is better on Eph's but she has a case for Eri's too.

Seth, he could go either way, and I'd even let the player decide which way he goes (like every other pre-route character).

It'd be nice if you could decide who goes where as you play. Meaning Tana starts by getting captured at Rigwald, but once rescued, Eph can send her to Eri. And Erika would be able to do the same with Gerik's group.

Of course, splitting the pre-route group in half might result in the teams being a little too small. I mean Lute and Artur give two mages, Natasha and Moulder two healers, Vanessa plus soon to join Tana two fliers, Garcia and Ross two axers, and you have 4 cavs, but still, this seems too little. In a hypothetical remake of SS with route alternation (with the player being able to choose who of Eph and Eri is the star in the end) I'd add some additional characters to fill things out a bit. At the least I'd add someone who could advise the lord who doesn't get Seth.

And I'll agree, Eri's route is the weaker one plot-wise.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Augestein said:

Pretty much. Although some like Tana work fine both ways as well, and the obvious ones that are route exclusive. Also Kyle and Forde work fine on Ephraim's route too. 

Whoops. Forgot to add Tana to the poll...And it turns out I can't because I've reached the question limit XL

2 hours ago, Enaluxeme said:

Now I want a remake with a proper split.

I'm surprised no one's ever fan hacked it. I can't imagine it'd be a massive amount of work compared to creating a full fangame.

9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Amelia obviously goes Ephraim's route- she is shoehorned into Erika 9.

Cormag- I so want him to go Eph's because I like him fighting Grado directly with Duessel, but he definitely is better developed on Eri's.

L'Arachel and her allies seem more suited to Ephy's for me, but without her, how will Eri 13 end?

The Gerik Mercenaries are better suited for Eri no doubt about that.

Tana, she is better on Eph's but she has a case for Eri's too.

Seth, he could go either way, and I'd even let the player decide which way he goes (like every other pre-route character).

It'd be nice if you could decide who goes where as you play. Meaning Tana starts by getting captured at Rigwald, but once rescued, Eph can send her to Eri. And Erika would be able to do the same with Gerik's group.

Of course, splitting the pre-route group in half might result in the teams being a little too small. I mean Lute and Artur give two mages, Natasha and Moulder two healers, Vanessa plus soon to join Tana two fliers, Garcia and Ross two axers, and you have 4 cavs, but still, this seems too little. In a hypothetical remake of SS with route alternation (with the player being able to choose who of Eph and Eri is the star in the end) I'd add some additional characters to fill things out a bit. At the least I'd add someone who could advise the lord who doesn't get Seth.

And I'll agree, Eri's route is the weaker one plot-wise.

Yeah you'd have to add a few more characters to bulk out the cast if this were to be the case. One idea for a character that I thought could be pretty cool would be the girl Lyon references saving using the power of the Sacred Stone. She could be a second Pupil, someone who was enamoured by Lyon's actions and wanted to become a mage just like him. More characters related to our major villain is usually a good thing. In fact Lyon could do with some more battle quotes overall, specifically with Dussell and Knoll. Who could stand in for Seth in the route he doesn't join is a bit troublesome but thinking on it, Tana might be able to fill the roll, though much of the dialogue would need to be altered.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Jotari

[Magical Glace]

There's a full blown split in the Japanese Green Hair hack, for what it's worth.  You do some Eirika chaps, then some Eph chaps, and alternate when the game says during that chunk of the story.

I haven't quite figured out how the unit splitting works, it seems to divide the starting party in a preset manner (ie Wolt always goes with Eirika while Rebecca goes with Ephraim), but I think the post split characters are divvied based on the replacement choice at the end of Chapter 8.  I can't read any of it, so I can't be sure!

[Flee Fleet!]

Seth obviously goes with Eirika (he's like the second unit one gets in this game anyways).

Like others said before, Amelia can go either way.

L'Arachel, Dozla, and Rennac would be recruited by Eirika since they do have interaction with each other before they join the group, whereas iirc Ephraim's first interaction with them is when they are first recruited in his route. But then again, these three can also really go either way, simply because L'Arachel and Dozla will join anyone fighting the bad guys and Rennac just wants money in the end.

Tana should definitely be recruited in Eirika's route. It makes sense for her to join her best friend rather than her best friend's brother.

Cormag also works better on Eirika's route, as he knows about his brother's death, wants revenge from Eirika, and then wants to have revenge from Valter once Eirika convinces him that she isn't the murderer.

Now, I just don't know which route will Gerik, Marisa, Tethys, and Ewan work better in. I think the first three would be best off with Innes always, seeing as how two of them are his protectors in Eirika's route and the third is recruited by one of the two. I don't which route works better for Ewan though, as I don't remember when exactly he joins the main characters in both routes. 

 

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And I'll agree, Eri's route is the weaker one plot-wise.

I thought Ephraim's route was weaker plot wise.

 

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

She could be a second Pupil, someone who was enamoured by Lyon's actions and wanted to become a mage just like him

She could also be a Shaman, seeing as how Lyon was, iirc, a dark magic user.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Well I guess it's arguable which is worse/better of Eirika's and Ephraim's routes regarding plot. Let's compare them a little:

Overall Journey:

Eiri's: A little trip to Rausten is quickly derailed and turns into a rescue in Carcino. Afterwards, Eirika travels through some mountains with monsters en route to Jehanna, where she fails in Innes's mission. Upon reuniting with her brother, her naïveté gets Renais's Sacred Stone smashed, the result of the fact she really wants to save her dear friend, but struggles with the fact she can't.

Eph's: A grand campaign to defeat the evil Grado Empire. Two victories are followed with a monster attack at sea, and then more battles with Grado. Along the way, Ephraim learns about why Grado invaded- the Dark Stone and Lyon. After defeating Grado, Ephraim rescues his sister and his brashness gets the Sacred Stone of Renais smashed.

Everything Else:

Eirika's route gives some world-building in Carcino and Caer Pelyn, and the Carcino rescue and Hamil Canyon battles are rather epic. Most of the PCs you recruit are rather well integrated into the story for a Fire Emblem game. On the Gemstone General front, you get Glen the nice guy, Valter the murderer, and Caellach the scumbag. Ismaire is as undeveloped as Vigarde (just to speak of her). Lyon is clearly possessed and suffering for it.

Ephraim's route has Duessel's rescue, Selena Fluorspar, the Grado Keep battle, and a much better version of Scorched Sands with regards to epic fights (but it'd be even better if the bosses moved). The PCs are poorly integrated. Valter, Riev, and Caellach all appear briefly, but the real Gemstone General attention falls on Selena and Duessel (though I could understand if you thought Glen outweighs both of them). No real world building happens, other than the Grado has earthquakes thing.

Gameplay-wise as a side note, Ephraim's is better, or at least harder. I mean Hamill Canyon and Revolt at Carcino offer a decent challenge, but as a whole, Eirika's is nowhere near as difficult. Though you may argue between the Bolting, the FoW Gargoyle flanking, and the status staffs that Ephraim's route is just cheaper. 

[ping]

Might be partly for the sake of contrariety, but I think Seth going with Ephraim would make perfect sense. From what the characters know prior to the route split, Eirika shouldn't face nearly as much opposition as Ephraim will, and Seth is quite aware that Ephraim has the tendency to do some crazy stupid reckless shit. So it would be the sensible decision to accompany him and try to convince him to occasionally not to rush into the most dangerous fights possible.

L'Arachel and company really work in both routes. They're basically running around aimlessly killing some monsters, so it's pure coincidence that they run into Ephraim/Eirika anyway. Analogous to that, Amelia could be randomly sent into either twin's path, as well.

I can't quite remember, but doesn't the whole 'Valter kills Glen and frames Eirika' plot get completely ignored on Ephraims route and Glen just disappears for no apparent reason? So yeah, Cormag going after Eirika makes for a much better story than Duessel just convincing him.

Innes' message to Ephraim ("I’ve no need of assistance, Ephraim, but I’m sure you do.") is great, but honestly, Gerik staying with Innes and Eirika after it turns out that the route to Jehanna isn't quite as smooth as expected makes a lot more sense.

Since Tana has a rather obvious crush on Ephraim, her trying to rush to his aid seems believeable. OTOH, she might have more faith in Eirika to have sympathy for her running away from home.

[Jotari]

We should just figure some way to clone Seth so he can go on both routes! More Seth is never a bad thing.

[Flee Fleet!]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

We should just figure some way to clone Seth so he can go on both routes! More Seth is never a bad thing.

Orson could probably fill that role of going with either Ephraim or Eirika, if it weren't for the fact that he back stabs everyone and joins the enemy for the sake of having his wife revived.

 

8 hours ago, ping said:

Might be partly for the sake of contrariety, but I think Seth going with Ephraim would make perfect sense. From what the characters know prior to the route split, Eirika shouldn't face nearly as much opposition as Ephraim will, and Seth is quite aware that Ephraim has the tendency to do some crazy stupid reckless shit. So it would be the sensible decision to accompany him and try to convince him to occasionally not to rush into the most dangerous fights possible.

Well, to be honest, Ephraim does know his way of winning in battles (such as escaping death by Valter and his Grado gang with just two cavaliers at his side). So I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to know whether he will be able to win the battle or not (then again, I never really played much of Ephraim's route, so...). Which is why I don't really think he needs Seth as some sort of adviser.

 

8 hours ago, ping said:

I can't quite remember, but doesn't the whole 'Valter kills Glen and frames Eirika' plot get completely ignored on Ephraims route and Glen just disappears for no apparent reason? So yeah, Cormag going after Eirika makes for a much better story than Duessel just convincing him.

Yup, and similarly, Selena "the Fluorspar" apparently remains non existent for the rest of Eirika's route and even after when the twins join. Which kinds sucks, because she does once meet Eirika, even if it was a really brief conversation in a village.

 

9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well I guess it's arguable which is worse/better of Eirika's and Ephraim's routes regarding plot. Let's compare them a little:

Overall Journey:

Eiri's: A little trip to Rausten is quickly derailed and turns into a rescue in Carcino. Afterwards, Eirika travels through some mountains with monsters en route to Jehanna, where she fails in Innes's mission. Upon reuniting with her brother, her naïveté gets Renais's Sacred Stone smashed, the result of the fact she really wants to save her dear friend, but struggles with the fact she can't.

Eph's: A grand campaign to defeat the evil Grado Empire. Two victories are followed with a monster attack at sea, and then more battles with Grado. Along the way, Ephraim learns about why Grado invaded- the Dark Stone and Lyon. After defeating Grado, Ephraim rescues his sister and his brashness gets the Sacred Stone of Renais smashed.

Everything Else:

Eirika's route gives some world-building in Carcino and Caer Pelyn, and the Carcino rescue and Hamil Canyon battles are rather epic. Most of the PCs you recruit are rather well integrated into the story for a Fire Emblem game. On the Gemstone General front, you get Glen the nice guy, Valter the murderer, and Caellach the scumbag. Ismaire is as undeveloped as Vigarde (just to speak of her). Lyon is clearly possessed and suffering for it.

Ephraim's route has Duessel's rescue, Selena Fluorspar, the Grado Keep battle, and a much better version of Scorched Sands with regards to epic fights (but it'd be even better if the bosses moved). The PCs are poorly integrated. Valter, Riev, and Caellach all appear briefly, but the real Gemstone General attention falls on Selena and Duessel (though I could understand if you thought Glen outweighs both of them). No real world building happens, other than the Grado has earthquakes thing.

Gameplay-wise as a side note, Ephraim's is better, or at least harder. I mean Hamill Canyon and Revolt at Carcino offer a decent challenge, but as a whole, Eirika's is nowhere near as difficult. Though you may argue between the Bolting, the FoW Gargoyle flanking, and the status staffs that Ephraim's route is just cheaper. 

Yeah, most people agree that Ephraim's route is more harder. To be honest, Eirika's route revolves more around providing plot and info, whereas Ephriam's route is more of gameplay challenge and some info about Grado.

[Jotari]

51 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said:

Orson could probably fill that role of going with either Ephraim or Eirika, if it weren't for the fact that he back stabs everyone and joins the enemy for the sake of having his wife revived.

I did consider that, it would make his betrayal that much more impactful. He had like one line of dialogue before he's revealed as a traitor. But if he did stick around longer we'd lose the whole disaster king of Renais who spends all day sleeping with his zombie wife which probably wouldn't be worth it.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Jotari

[Flee Fleet!]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I did consider that, it would make his betrayal that much more impactful. He had like one line of dialogue before he's revealed as a traitor. But if he did stick around longer we'd lose the whole disaster king of Renais who spends all day sleeping with his zombie wife which probably wouldn't be worth it.

yeah true. I did like him becoming the disaster king with a zombie wife, and it made it all the sadder to kill him.

[Just call me AL]

Apparently, I'm only one here who thinks that Tana would be best off joining her boyfriend as opposed to her boyfriend's sister.

[bethany81707]

3 minutes ago, Just call me AL said:

Apparently, I'm only one here who thinks that Tana would be best off joining her boyfriend as opposed to her boyfriend's sister.

I went with Ephraim too. That's honestly my personal preference, even though my story had several reasons to encourage this (splitting the two pegasus knights into both parties, being useful as Ephraim's prepromote before he gets Duessel...)

[Dark Holy Elf]

-Seth: Eirika, obviously. Him going with Ephraim always felt awkward.
-Forde and Kyle: Ephraim, obviously. Them going with Eirika always felt awkward.
-Joshua: Eirika. Jehenna plot.
-Most of the other pre-route split characters work either way.

-Amelia: Ephraim. Why are there Grado soldiers working for Binks? That part doesn't make much sense.
-Tana: Eirika. Both work just fine, but (a) the game actually sells you on Eirika and Tana being friends, and (b) Tana's introduction on Eph route involves her being damselfied for a second time, no thanks.
-Gerik and Tethys: Eirika. Their joining along with Innes is a notable part of chapter 10's plot. Marisa and Ewan could go either way, although Ewan does have the connection with Saleh...
-Cormag: Eirika. Yeah Glen disappearing from the plot on Eph route makes this one rather obvious.
-L'Arachel and Dozla: Eirika route. The appearance of Rausten at Hamill Canyon makes no sense otherwise. Rennac can defect after Eirika C9 and end up in Eph's route, though.

[Jotari]

I think the best method for preroute split characters (aside from Seth who's plot important) would be to let the player select who goes with who ala Radiant Dawn part 4.

[Paper Jam]

Seth: Eirika, of course.

Amelia: Ephraim. As an inexperienced Grado soldier, her presence makes much more sense in Grado territory than practically on the opposite side of the continent.

Gerik and Tethys: Eirika or both. Even in Ephraim's route, they only joined Ephraim (in chapter 13) because Innes ordered them to, and that was after Eirika had come to their aid in Carcino (in chapter 10).

L'arachel and Dozla: Could work either way, but Carcino is much closer to Rausten than the sea between Bethroen and Taizel (and in fact, the latter is on the exact opposite side of Magvel). Geographically speaking, it would make more sense for them to join Eirika.

Marisa: Eirika. Having the mercenary company not only screw up the employer's identity but also the location makes very little sense, especially when the location is (again) on the opposite side of Magvel.

Ewan: Eirika. It was Ewan who helped Eirika and company get through the mountains between Carcino and Caer Pelyn on her route, and that journey (which also occurred during Ephraim's route, albeit offscreen) wouldn't have made nearly as much sense without his help.

Cormag: Either way works well, for different reasons; but because so many other characters work better in Eirika's route, I lean towards Ephraim. I particularly like the idea of Duessel swaying Cormag over to Ephraim's side to attack Grado directly.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Paper Jam

[KriegerZeta]

In my opinion, Eirika should be recruiting most the units mentioned in the poll, since she is more charismatic than Ephraim. Also, the twins' father orders on Seth and Innes' distain for her brother. Save for Cormag; he would rather follow his brother's orders rather than betray him and join Eirika's side. And L'Arachel and Co., it doesn't really matter which twins should recruiting them; they'll join any of their's army anyway.

Edited March 29, 2017 by KriegerZeta
Correction and modification.

[Jotari]

On March 25, 2017 at 6:03 AM, ping said:

Might be partly for the sake of contrariety, but I think Seth going with Ephraim would make perfect sense. From what the characters know prior to the route split, Eirika shouldn't face nearly as much opposition as Ephraim will, and Seth is quite aware that Ephraim has the tendency to do some crazy stupid reckless shit. So it would be the sensible decision to accompany him and try to convince him to occasionally not to rush into the most dangerous fights possible.

You think you could vote that in the poll? Sound logic and Seth is currently sitting at a very boring 100% for Eirika.

[ping]

Right, I did forget about that.

[King Marth 64]

On 3/28/2017 at 10:02 PM, KriegerZeta said:

In my opinion, Eirika should be recruiting most the units mentioned in the poll, since she is more charismatic than Ephraim. Also, the twins' father orders on Seth and Innes' distain for her brother. Save for Cormag; he would rather follow his brother's orders rather than betray him and join Eirika's side. And L'Arachel and Co., it doesn't really matter which twins should recruiting them; they'll join any of their's army anyway.

Actually, Cormag joins Eirika since Valter did actually killed his older brother after Glen learned the truth about what Eirika said that she didn't attacked the citizens of Grado & her country was invaded by Grado. Glen never knew Vigarde was actually under in a mind control from Fomortiis & Valter did lied to Cormag that he told that Eirika was the one who killed Glen. Cormag did asked Eirika why she killed Glen that she looks really confused that she doesn't know what's going on with Glen and he just founds out that Valter was the one who killed his brother since Cormag does seem to have a bad relationship with Valter also.

And also, I'm surprised that alot of people picked Amelia for Emphraim's route and the rest of the 4 choices just picks the other characters in the poll for Eirikia's route. I really think Tana and Emphraim's two trusty cavaliers should be with Emphraim.

Edited April 11, 2017 by King Marth 64

[Armadillo8]

Seth. Eirika. Ephraim already had Orson.
Tana: Eirika obviously.
Ewan: Eirika. Since Saleh follows Eirikas Route no matter what you do it would make sense for his pupil to go along with him.
Cormag: Honestly, both work fine, though personally I prefer Eirika.
Gerik's mercs: Definitely Eirika. After all they have been hired by Innes, who, just like Saleh, follows Eirika no matter what.
L'Arachel and friends: Plot-wise it's probably Eirika (Ch. 13!) but they seem to fit better into Ephraim's Route.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Mariode