Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia - Hands-On Discussion!

[Extrasolar]

@mikethepokemaster You seem to be missing my point. No, it's not impossible. You can make a game in a day; I mean, you can make a game in an hour. But here's the thing: Doesn't mean it'll be a quality game and worth the money that it costs.

The problem here isn't if it's "possible" for them to make a game in 2 to 3 years, because of course it's possible. The problem is that it's not a good idea. It's 100% possible for a person to jump off a cliff into a ravine rather than walking down the trail that leads into it, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to do so, and you're going to get hurt or killed just jumping in rather than taking the time to walk carefully down that path.

Everyone is aware of and has criticized many of Fates' writing and game design issues (not saying that it's an awful game, because it's definitely not, but it could undoubtedly have been tightened and made better with more development time). The Revelation path as a whole seems to have been extremely rushed, due to the fact that a large portion of the units there are flat-out unusable by the time they join, looking to just have ported over their stats from the previous two paths with absolutely no adjustments made to match their new join times. You can't argue that that's a conscious decision--why would they make a unit literally unable to do anything on its join chapter? That's a symptom of running out of time and needing to meet a deadline.

Like you said, the remakes. Sure, they're running on a different engine, but literally every single plot point, every single character, every single map was already done for them. Now, they did tweak some of these things, but not a lot. The game itself already existed. They just needed to draw new assets and code into a new engine. That's why those games spent less time in development.

Miyamato said it best, even when BOTW was being delayed many times, and that game is a sensation now. A bad game remains bad forever. A delayed game can still be good, especially with more time put into it.

That's why I'm against releasing the games so close to one another. Because in general, games tend to lose quality the faster they're completed.

 

[mikethepokemaster]

10 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

@mikethepokemaster You seem to be missing my point. No, it's not impossible. You can make a game in a day; I mean, you can make a game in an hour. But here's the thing: Doesn't mean it'll be a quality game and worth the money that it costs.

The problem here isn't if it's "possible" for them to make a game in 2 to 3 years, because of course it's possible. The problem is that it's not a good idea. It's 100% possible for a person to jump off a cliff into a ravine rather than walking down the trail that leads into it, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to do so, and you're going to get hurt or killed just jumping in rather than taking the time to walk carefully down that path.

Everyone is aware of and has criticized many of Fates' writing and game design issues (not saying that it's an awful game, because it's definitely not, but it could undoubtedly have been tightened and made better with more development time). The Revelation path as a whole seems to have been extremely rushed, due to the fact that a large portion of the units there are flat-out unusable by the time they join, looking to just have ported over their stats from the previous two paths with absolutely no adjustments made to match their new join times. You can't argue that that's a conscious decision--why would they make a unit literally unable to do anything on its join chapter? That's a symptom of running out of time and needing to meet a deadline.

Like you said, the remakes. Sure, they're running on a different engine, but literally every single plot point, every single character, every single map was already done for them. Now, they did tweak some of these things, but not a lot. The game itself already existed. They just needed to draw new assets and code into a new engine. That's why those games spent less time in development. 

Miyamato said it best, even when BOTW was being delayed many times, and that game is a sensation now. A bad game remains bad forever. A delayed game can still be good, especially with more time put into it.

That's why I'm against releasing the games so close to one another. Because in general, games tend to lose quality the faster they're completed.

 

delayed games can still horrible in the long wrong look at FF 15 10 years and game still missing content because of it deadline. Your right on a game being rushed out can be bad but Fire Emblem is in a bubble if you make fans of it wait to long than sales will drop, unless your final fantasy. Look Golden Sun waited 9 years for a squeal and it did okay in sales that it it probably dead now. Mighty number had delays and that stuff was horrible too.

Edited March 29, 2017 by mikethepokemaster

[Extrasolar]

1 minute ago, mikethepokemaster said:

delayed games can still horrible in the long worng look at FF15 10 years and game still missing content becuae of it deadline,

Of course there will always be exceptions to the rule, and games that spend a long time in development but end up supbar, just as there will be games that are developed quickly and end up great.

I'm saying that those are the exceptions to the rule. Generally speaking, rushed/quickly developed games turn out subpar (I point to Sonic 2006 as the biggest example here, since that game had very rushed development and turned out awful), while games with longer development times turn out better. There's far more examples of that than of the reverse.

[Azz]

3 minutes ago, mikethepokemaster said:

delayed games can still horrible in the long worng look at FF15 10 years and game still missing content becuae of it deadline,

Just gonna jump into the conversation here, but of coarse delayed games or games that have longer development times can be bad. However, more often then not, a game that has been given more time to be developed, to get bugs ironed out etc. will be better than a game that has a short development cycle.

Also FF 15 isn't really a good example since it really was only in development for three years (Possibly more, but definitely not 10) since it was originally FF Versus 13.

[mikethepokemaster]

2 minutes ago, Azz said:

Just gonna jump into the conversation here, but of coarse delayed games or games that have longer development times can be bad. However, more often then not, a game that has been given more time to be developed, to get bugs ironed out etc. will be better than a game that has a short development cycle.

Also FF 15 isn't really a good example since it really was only in development for three years (Possibly more, but definitely not 10) since it was originally FF Versus 13.

Really now the more you know. Also like your new Avatar Boye has his own Harem lol. Mae his canon wife or whatever right?

2 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Of course there will always be exceptions to the rule, and games that spend a long time in development but end up supbar, just as there will be games that are developed quickly and end up great.

I'm saying that those are the exceptions to the rule. Generally speaking, rushed/quickly developed games turn out subpar (I point to Sonic 2006 as the biggest example here, since that game had very rushed development and turned out awful), while games with longer development times turn out better. There's far more examples of that than of the reverse.

I know but like I said fire emblem in a bubble and that can burst anytime so IS has to pump out like no tomorrow. I also think it popularity skyrocket because we're in a 2nd Anime boom. 

[Extrasolar]

20 minutes ago, mikethepokemaster said:

I know but like I said fire emblem in a bubble and that can burst anytime so IS has to pump out like no tomorrow. I also think it popularity skyrocket because we're in a 2nd Anime boom. 

Nah... I don't know, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. "Pump out like no tomorrow" sounds like an awful idea imo, especially when you're talking original FE games. Good games are hard to make and take love, care, and attention, and just putting them on an assembly line like that isn't going to give you a good game, more often that not.

I (and most other people/gamers I know) would much, much rather wait a while for a high quality, polished, well-written and designed game than get an oversaturation every two years of a rushed, unbalanced, poorly written one. If anything, FE's popularity will drop if the quality of games drops like that.

It's like fast food. It's cheap and easy to make, but that doesn't mean it's good for you, and it pales in comparison to a home-cooked meal.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Extrasolar

[mikethepokemaster]

2 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Nah... I don't know, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. "Pump out like no tomorrow" sounds like an awful idea imo, especially when you're talking original FE games. Good games are hard to make and take love, care, and attention, and just putting them on an assembly line like that isn't going to give you a good game, more often that not.

I (and most other people/gamers I know) would much, much rather wait a while for a high quality, polished, well-written and designed game than get an oversaturation every two years of a rushed, unbalanced, poorly written one. If anything, FE's popularity will drop if the quality of games drops like that.

It's like fast food. It's cheap and easy to make, but that doesn't mean it's good for you, and it pales in comparison to a home-cooked meal.

Your alright yeah agree to disagree. Well Echoes story looking good and game play look good wish pair up and an avatar was in but I can understand why they aren't it remake and it didn't have those features in the original game 

[ZoeTrent]

You know we don't have to go absolutely one way or the other here either. It could be a good idea to go for a good mix of taking the time to develop a quality game, and still keeping an eye on how long things are taking, when it is time to release, and weighing the pros and cons on having delays and such.

Maybe 2 years is a good time, maybe 3, maybe 4, or 5. It all depends.

Edited March 31, 2017 by ZoeTrent

[mikethepokemaster]

47 minutes ago, ZoeTrent said:

You know we don't have to go absolutely one way or the other here either. It could be a good idea to go for a good mix of taking the time to develop a quality game, and still keeping an eye on how long things are taking, when it is time to release, and weighing the pros and cons on having delays and such.

Maybe 2 years is a good time, maybe 3, maybe 4, or 5. It all depends.

Yeah your right but if a game take to long people would stop caring but some occasions it get people more hype Persona 5 is an example of both. While I am hype for it and many other are too, some have moved on.

[SuperIb]

Honestly I'm so ready for this game. I've heard great things about it from people who have tested it and so far everything revealed looks really good. No matter what, I'm buying it. As for fatigue, I'm down with it. I think it'll be fun to be more-or-less forced to use other characters, especially in a game that has seemingly unlimited grinding. It works together well. I want to see more about supports, so hopefully news about that will be available soon.

Hopefully this game will live up to my expectations, especially after the disappointment that was ME:A... I just... ugh. (it's not great imo, at least)