Jotari

Lyn should have used Murgleis

Lyn should have used Murgleis   58 members have voted

  1. 1. Lyn should have used Murgleis

    • I agree! Legendary Weapons for everyone!
    • I disagree! Those Sol Katti animations are too sweet.
    • Would have made sense if she was a Bow Lord to begin with.

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93 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Athos shows up with all these sweet holy weapons and instead Lyn gets this apparently great sword equal in power to the legendary weapons and even effective against dragons, that no one has ever mentioned once before and has absolutely no history in the lore (aside from being the "sister sword" to Lyn's version of the rapier). Why not just give her the holy weapon associated with her people? Sure she only takes Bows on promotion but still it'd be a PRF weapon so in terms of gameplay that wouldn't even matter. Alternatively, they could have made her a Bow Lord to begin with and given her swords on promotion instead. Eh, just feels like a missed opportunity to me either way. What do you think?

Edited by Jotari

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Eliwood should've had Maltet. The guy had Lance expertise in FE6.

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Eh, they should have just upgraded the Mani Katti or something rather than make a totally different "sister" sword.

Also, it would have been cool to have be a Bow Lord, considering that we have another Sword Lord (Eliwood).

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2 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

Eliwood should've had Maltet. The guy had Lance expertise in FE6.

Yeah, I agree. Lyn is a speedy swordswoman, Hector a strong axefighter. Eliwood is balanced, so lances would fit him much better as a main weapon, and with three lord characters, giving each a corner of the weapon triangle would be the obvious design choice.

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Plus it'd help buff up his weaker offense early on.  Honestly confused with why they decided to give Eliwood swords in the end.

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Not to mention, the main reason why she was given the Sol Katti was because the ultimate weapon she was originally going to use in the endgame was instead given to Eliwood.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Just call me AL said:

Not to mention, the main reason why she was given the Sol Katti was because the ultimate weapon she was originally going to use in the endgame was instead given to Eliwood.

Actually, they intended Durandal to be usable by either Lyn or Eliwood; they just couldn't modify the code to allow that.

Anyway, Eliwood is a descendant of Roland, not Barigan, so it always made sense to me that Eliwood would wield Durandal.

But yes, by the same token, Lyn should have been able to wield Murgleis.

Edited by Paper Jam

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10 hours ago, Refa said:

Plus it'd help buff up his weaker offense early on.  Honestly confused with why they decided to give Eliwood swords in the end.

i'm guessing it was to make him look like roy so people buy the game thinking he's roy

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6 hours ago, Paper Jam said:

Actually, they intended Durandal to be usable by either Lyn or Eliwood; they just couldn't modify the code to allow that.

Anyway, Eliwood is a descendant of Roland, not Barigan, so it always made sense to me that Eliwood would wield Durandal.

But yes, by the same token, Lyn should have been able to wield Murgleis.

If they were going to go that route I question why they didn't just make it usable by everyone and left in unique animations for the two lords. It's not like it was a PRF weapon in the previous game.

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21 hours ago, Paper Jam said:

Anyway, Eliwood is a descendant of Roland, not Barigan, so it always made sense to me that Eliwood would wield Durandal.

Hector's not a descendant of Durban, but yet he can use Armads. And neither of Athos, Lucius, Renault, and Serra are descendants of Elimine, but yet they can use Aureola. 

 

21 hours ago, Paper Jam said:

But yes, by the same token, Lyn should have been able to wield Murgleis.

1. She should have used bows from the get-go if she was ever given Murgleis.

2. She would have to get more story prominence than she already has.

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I like my Lyn as a sword chick. If I had to do the plot over I would make the Sol Katti a partner weapon to Hanon's Bow.

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She shoud have promoted to a Nomad Trooper thing with 7 mov if she was gonna be Swords and Bows anyway, then Murgleis would have been a perfect fit.

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On 4/2/2017 at 10:22 PM, Just call me AL said:

Hector's not a descendant of Durban, but yet he can use Armads. And neither of Athos, Lucius, Renault, and Serra are descendants of Elimine, but yet they can use Aureola. 

I think he was implying that since he's the decendant of Roland, it makes sense for him to use the Durandal for plot reasons.

As for Lyn..nah, I disagree. I mean having her as a bow lord will only cripple her usefulness unless she can end up hitting more than a 2 range lock attack.

 

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5 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I think he was implying that since he's the decendant of Roland, it makes sense for him to use the Durandal for plot reasons.

As for Lyn..nah, I disagree. I mean having her as a bow lord will only cripple her usefulness unless she can end up hitting more than a 2 range lock attack.

 

She wouldn't necessarily have to be a Bow Lord. She could still have the same weapon focus but just get to use Murgleis at the end.

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Posted (edited)

23 minutes ago, Jotari said:

She wouldn't necessarily have to be a Bow Lord. She could still have the same weapon focus but just get to use Murgleis at the end.

I still don't see the point of Murgles since its one of the weapons that are forced to be kept to get to the real final boss and that Rienfleche beats it by a ton with higher might and more uses, a weapon that Lyn is capable of using by then..if effort is made.

 

 

 Rienfleche

Edited by Harvey

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Posted (edited)

30 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I still don't see the point of Murgles since its one of the weapons that are forced to be kept to get to the real final boss and that Rienfleche beats it by a ton with higher might and more uses, a weapon that Lyn is capable of using by then..if effort is made.

The effort seems kinda pointless, since the Rienfleche isn't effective against the dragon, and as a prf Murgleis wouldn't need her to go out of her way to avoid using swords in the latter portion of the game since she'll quickly S rank them if you don't do so.

And what does FE6's final chapter requisite have to do with anything?

Edited by Glaceon Mage

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4 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

The effort seems kinda pointless, since the Rienfleche isn't effective against the dragon, and as a prf Murgleis wouldn't need her to go out of her way to avoid using swords in the latter portion of the game since she'll quickly S rank them if you don't do so.

And what does FE6's final chapter requisite have to do with anything?

 if its not that effective then Murglesis wouldn't either since again, compared to Rienfleche, it has lower might and use so the idea of her having that weapon is pointless to begin with.

As for what FE6's final chapter has a play in this...its nothing. Just my mild frustrating part of getting all the legendary weapons to get that final chapter...oh...the frustration.

 

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Just now, Harvey said:

 if its not that effective then Murglesis wouldn't either since again, compared to Rienfleche, it has lower might and use so the idea of her having that weapon is pointless to begin with.

As for what FE6's final chapter has a play in this...its nothing. Just my mild frustrating part of getting all the legendary weapons to get that final chapter...oh...the frustration.

Reinfleche doesn't have an "effective vs Dragons" pointer, which Murgleis undoubtedly would given it was made specifically to combat the dragons.  That's what I said.  And again, you have to DELIBERATELY avoid equipping Lyn with a sword after she promotes to avoid S ranking them, when to use promoted Lyn most effectively you need to switch between bows and swords as the situation demands to give her varied range.  

Then why bring it up?  

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Reinfleche doesn't have an "effective vs Dragons" pointer, which Murgleis undoubtedly would given it was made specifically to combat the dragons.  That's what I said.  And again, you have to DELIBERATELY avoid equipping Lyn with a sword after she promotes to avoid S ranking them, when to use promoted Lyn most effectively you need to switch between bows and swords as the situation demands to give her varied range.  

Murgleis is effective against manaketes which are different than actual dragons. which is why it was effective against Idunn because she happens to be a manakete and not  she is no way of that of an actual dragon.

If we'd want Lyn to wield the mentioned weapon, the final boss would need to be a manakete and not a real dragon which unfortunately is what Eliwood and others face. So comparing it to Reinfleche, it would hardly do any damage to the real dragon and even if it did, it would do lesser damage than that of the Reinfleche.

 

Edited by Harvey

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Murgleis is effective against manaketes which are different than actual dragons. which is why it was effective against Idunn because she happens to be a manakete and not an actual dragon.

...Durandal, Forblaze, Armads, and Aureola all have the pointer I mentioned.  What point are you trying to make?  And for the record, Murgleis doesn't deal effective damage to Idoun, the only weapons that do are The Binding Blade and Fae's Divinestone.

Manaketes are just dragons who sealed their power into stones.  What is effective on them is effective on dragons.

Edited by Glaceon Mage

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Posted (edited)

26 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

...Durandal, Forblaze, Armads, and Aureola all have the pointer I mentioned.

Because they are legendary weapons to begin with?

26 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Murgleis doesn't deal effective damage to Idoun,

I can deal effective damage if the weapon is given to the strongest archer you can possibly get. Max out Sin with energy rings and he can pretty much do it.

26 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Manaketes are just dragons who sealed their power into stones.  What is effective on them is effective on dragons.

Wrong. Actual dragons have a shorter lifespan unlike manaketes who have longer lifespans..that and manakets need divine stones to keep themselves to shapeshifting otherwise they are stuck with being somewhat human and can't turn back to dragons. So no, there's a huge difference in them. 

26 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

 What point are you trying to make? 

The point I'm making is that the Murlegis is pointless for Lyn to use because its only effective against Wyverns and Manaketes and if it CAN inflict damage to real dragons, it will only do lesser damage compared to the Reinfleche. The Reinfleche is better because again, its got better might and use than the Murlegis.

.

Edited by Harvey

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5 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Because they are legendary weapons to begin with?

I can deal effective damage if the weapon is given to the strongest archer you can possibly get. Max out Sin with energy rings and he can pretty much do it.

Wrong. Actual dragons have a shorter lifespan unlike manaketes who have longer lifespans..that and manakets need divine stones to keep themselves to shapeshifting otherwise they are stuck with being somewhat human and can't turn back to dragons. So no, there's a huge difference in them. 

The point I'm making is that the Murlegis is pointless for Lyn to use because its only effective against Wyverns and Manaketes and if it CAN inflict damage to real dragons, it will only do lesser damage compared to the Reinfleche. The Reinfleche is better because again, its got better might and use than the Murlegis.

.

...We're arguing about facts. I'm fairly sure I could make a metaphor out of this if I felt like it.

Murgleis is one of the weaposn of the Eight Heroes. End of story.

'Effective' does not mean 'useful'. I've seen bows do pitiful damage to pegasus knights- they haven't stopped being 'effective', they've stopped being 'useful'. The Divine Weapons are not 'effective' against Idoun.

Dragons living in the human world have shorter lifespans. They become manaketes to extend their lifespans here. The two facts are correlated, just in the other order.

Do you actually give Eliwood the Regal Blade or Hector the Basilikos?

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Just now, Harvey said:

Because they are legendary weapons to begin with?

So is Murgleis?

Just now, Harvey said:

I can deal effective damage if the weapon is given to the strongest archer you can possibly get. Max out Sin with energy rings and he can pretty much do it.

I don't think you understand what I mean by "effective damage".

Certain weapons have x3/x2 (depending on whether we're talking FE6/Japanese FE7 or English FE7) might against certain foes.  For example, when used against manaketes/wyvern riders/Idoun, the Binding Blade's might will triple from 18 to 54, then have Roy's Strength added to that 54 might.

Murgleis's might does not have this property against Idoun, being stuck with its base might of 16, rather than 48 might when effective (which is the might it has against FE6's other dragon enemies).

7 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Wrong. Actual dragons have a shorter lifespan unlike manaketes who have longer lifespans. So no, there's a huge difference in them.

Did you pay attention to FE6 chapter 24 at all?  Manaketes in Elibe are dragons who took human form to preserve their power.  What's effective on one is effective on the other.  

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

'Effective' does not mean 'useful'. I've seen bows do pitiful damage to pegasus knights- they haven't stopped being 'effective', they've stopped being 'useful'. The Divine Weapons are not 'effective' against Idoun.

By that logic, why even have Lyn use that bow in the first place if it is only going to do pitiful damage in the first place? I mean, the bow along with its wielder is hardly mentioned to begin with.

Murgleis's might does not have this property against Idoun, being stuck with its base might of 16, rather than 48 might when effective (which is the might it has against FE6's other dragon enemies).

Which means its either a plot hole since its suppose to be effective against wyvern riders and manaketes or that the devs forgot to implement said logic.

 

Edited by Harvey

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Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, Harvey said:

By that logic, why even have Lyn use that bow in the first place if it is only going to do pitiful damage in the first place? I mean, the bow along with its wielder is hardly mentioned to begin with.

They're explaining what is meant by the term effective, not commenting on the specific use of Murgleis.

Edited by Glaceon Mage

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