Lyn should have used Murgleis

[bethany81707]

2 minutes ago, Harvey said:

By that logic, why even have Lyn use that bow in the first place if it is only going to do pitiful damage in the first place? I mean, the bow along with its wielder is hardly mentioned to begin with.

 

...Because they were generic Lyn's mode archers against a Florina that was one of two recipients of the experience gained in the entire story?

EDIT: (While I'm at it) I don't remember much ado about Durban and Armads in FE6. No more than Hanon and Murgleis.

Edited April 19, 2017 by phineas81707

[Magical Glace]

4 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Which means its either a plot hole since its suppose to be effective against wyvern riders and manaketes or that the devs forgot to implement said logic.

It is effective against Wyvern Riders and Manaketes.

Idoun just has her own effectiveness pointer, which triggers just the Binding Blade and Divinestone.

 

[Harvey]

2 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

It is effective against Wyvern Riders and Manaketes.

Idoun just has her own effectiveness pointer, which triggers just the Binding Blade and Divinestone.

Its still a flaw since idoun is a manakete though which can only mean that its a small plothole..

 

[Magical Glace]

2 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Its still a flaw since idoun is a manakete though which can only mean that its a small plothole..

Not really, Idoun's just in a class of her own.

Quote

Jahn: the Dark Dragon is something completely different from me.

For the record, none of the Divine Weapons deal effective damage to Idoun, as The Binding Blade is not a Divine Weapon.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[Just call me AL]

14 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Its still a flaw since idoun is a manakete though which can only mean that its a small plothole.

Obviously, you have never tried to use a Wyrmslayer against Medeus, or tried to use one of the Falchions against Fates' final boss. Same kind of logic applies here. And the reason why, Glaceon Mage already went over: For all intents and purposes, Idunn is a Shadow Dragon by the time you face her.

[Jotari]

This debate seems wildly complex for how simple it is. Murgleis compared to Rienfleche would be useful for two reasons. A)It would be effective against the Fire Dragon (as Eliwood's Durandal and Hector's Armads are) B) It wouldn't require grinding Lyn's weapon rank to use. Reinfleche would still be a useful weapon on Lyn if you did think to train her bow rank but it would be the equivalent of saying it's pointless for Eliwood to use Durandal when he could be using Rex Hasta.

[shadowofchaos]

As one of the know veteran GBA hackers... I can't even wrap my head around what point this person is trying to make about effectiveness pointers and Manaketes and plotholes. Sounds like a bunch of "I'm mocking the devs even though I don't know anything at all about this".

From what I recall, the sword of seals and Fae's stone have a different pointer that lists Manaketes and Idoun's demon dragon class Ids than the other legendary weapons.

Location in ROM -> Lists classes to be effective against.

 

Items:

Item ID

Item Name Text ID

Item Description Text ID

Item type

Might

Uses

Range

Item abilites

... etc

Effectiveness pointer to "Location in ROM"

....

Edited April 19, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

This debate seems wildly complex for how simple it is. Murgleis compared to Rienfleche would be useful for two reasons. A)It would be effective against the Fire Dragon (as Eliwood's Durandal and Hector's Armads are) B) It wouldn't require grinding Lyn's weapon rank to use. Reinfleche would still be a useful weapon on Lyn if you did think to train her bow rank but it would be the equivalent of saying it's pointless for Eliwood to use Durandal when he could be using Rex Hasta.

Despite all valid points, I still don't get why you would want Lyn to use the Murgleis since the plot for that weapon is vague and Lyn is most likely not the descendant of the said general because otherwise and as I said before, she'd be stuck being a bow user which will cramp up her usefulness.

 

[Magical Glace]

2 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Despite all valid points, I still don't get why you would want Lyn to use the Murgleis since the plot for that weapon is vague and Lyn is most likely not the descendant of the said general because otherwise and as I said before, she'd be stuck being a bow user which will cramp up her usefulness.

Athos literally calls her a "Child of Hanon and Roland", and her father was one of the chiefs of Sacae before the bandits wiped out her tribe.  Murgleis is Sacae's Divine Weapon.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Harvey said:

Despite all valid points, I still don't get why you would want Lyn to use the Murgleis since the plot for that weapon is vague and Lyn is most likely not the descendant of the said general because otherwise and as I said before, she'd be stuck being a bow user which will cramp up her usefulness.

 

Why would she be stuck being a bow user? There's nothing stopping swords from being her default weapon yet getting a prf weapon in her subweapon type. Might be a  bit strange for some people but absolutely logistically possible. And her lineage has nothing to do with it. Anybody can use the Holy Weapons of Elibe. The prf ranks in FE7 are a gameplay feature. I just think it would be nicer for her to use the weapon associated with her people and to give the Holy Weapons more presence in the final chapter rather than inventing an entirely new weapon for Lyn that has nothing to do with the lore.

[Harvey]

5 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Athos literally calls her a "Child of Hanon and Roland", and her father was one of the chiefs of Sacae before the bandits wiped out her tribe.  Murgleis is Sacae's Divine Weapon.

Then why doesn't Athos hand her the Murglesis instead of the Sol Katti? And wasn't Sacae nearly endangered at the time?

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Why would she be stuck being a bow user? There's nothing stopping swords from being her default weapon yet getting a prf weapon in her subweapon type. Might be a  bit strange for some people but absolutely logistically possible. And her lineage has nothing to do with it. Anybody can use the Holy Weapons of Elibe. The prf ranks in FE7 are a gameplay feature. I just think it would be nicer for her to use the weapon associated with her people and to give the Holy Weapons more presence in the final chapter rather than inventing an entirely new weapon for Lyn that has nothing to do with the lore.

What difference does it make if Lyn is given a better Katti? Its capable of even rivalling the legendary divine weapons.

Although I suppose I get where you're coming at...it could help her honor her parents better and all....

 

 

[Magical Glace]

1 minute ago, Harvey said:

Then why doesn't Athos hand her the Murglesis instead of the Sol Katti? And wasn't Sacae nearly endangered at the time?

What difference does it make if Lyn is given a better Katti? Its capable of even rivalling the legendary divine weapons.

Although I suppose I get where you're coming at...it could help her honor her parents better and all....

Because the Sol Katti has literally no lore and Athos basically pulls it out of his ass to give Lyn something.

[Harvey]

I'm not going to bother attacking further. What's done is done.

What I feel is that Lyndis wanted to perform arts in swords and that's what she wanted to do throughout her life ever since her parents were killed. To make her use bows when she clearly was trained in swords isn't worth because never once in the plot was she revealed to use bows and never once was Lyn even bothered to train on bows. Since swords was her thing, it only makes sense for Athos to give her a sword...its that simple.

To me, if Lyn were to have the Murglesis, she needs to train archery..which is never mentioned in any of her supports nor was it even mentioned during the plot since..regretfully, she didn't get much of spotlight during the plot.

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Harvey

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I'm not going to bother attacking further. What's done is done.

What I feel is that Lyndis wanted to perform arts in swords and that's what she wanted to do throughout her life ever since her parents were killed. To make her use bows when she clearly was trained in swords is pretty much asking every sword master to add bows as well as swords...i mean, why are they called swordmasters in the first place?

To me, if Lyn were to have the Murglesis, she needs to train archery..which is never mentioned in any of her supports nor was it even mentioned during the plot since..regretfully, she didn't get much of spotlight during the plot.

 

Well you know she already has a bow rank upon promoting as it is. But if you don't think that's good enough justification then power to you. Seeing her use Murgleis is just something I would have liked to seen. People not liking the idea is perfectly understandable, that's why I made it an option in the poll.

[Ansem]

3 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Athos literally calls her a "Child of Hanon and Roland", and her father was one of the chiefs of Sacae before the bandits wiped out her tribe.  Murgleis is Sacae's Divine Weapon.

It doesn't feel like Athos literally meant that she is a descendant of Hanon moreso that she was born in Sacae, the nation that Hanon founded. Also FE7 Prf system for the divine weapon is p stupid since I don't think it has to do with inheritance. Roland is Hector's ancestor, not Eliwood's. And FE6 confirms you don't have to do of the lineage of the hero to wield the weapons. 

I'm pretty sure the devs just wanted to give the lords weapons associated with their base class. 

[Just call me AL]

54 minutes ago, Mimikyu said:

It doesn't feel like Athos literally meant that she is a descendant of Hanon moreso that she was born in Sacae, the nation that Hanon founded. Also FE7 Prf system for the divine weapon is p stupid since I don't think it has to do with inheritance. Roland is Hector's ancestor, not Eliwood's. And FE6 confirms you don't have to do of the lineage of the hero to wield the weapons. 

I'm pretty sure the devs just wanted to give the lords weapons associated with their base class. 

FE7's own script disagrees with you on the "Eliwood isn't descended from Roland" bit.

Quote

Athos: Heed my words, Roland. This boy is descended from your blood. Please, lend him your strength.

And by "this boy", Athos means Eliwood.

Also.

Quote

Eliwood: Lord Athos, who was that man?

Athos: So you were able to see him, too? That was your ancestor, the warrior Roland.

I don't think I need to say more here.

[Jotari]

And as irrelevant as the bloodline might be, chances are extremely high that Lyn is a descendant of Hannon given he lived a thousand years ago.

[Harvey]

21 minutes ago, Jotari said:

And as irrelevant as the bloodline might be, chances are extremely high that Lyn is a descendant of Hannon given he lived a thousand years ago.

And I'm not denying that at all as I get where you're coming from this. But like I said, since she was so worked up on Swords, it wouldn't make sense for her to use Murglesis story wise...

Also, just a quick note, both Hector and Eliwood are decendants of Roland since Roland is the founder behind Lycia and the first marquess of Ostia. 

 

Edited April 20, 2017 by Harvey

[Magical Glace]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

And as irrelevant as the bloodline might be, chances are extremely high that Lyn is a descendant of Hannon given he lived a thousand years ago.

...Hanon was a woman...

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

...Hanon was a woman...

Moot point really.

[Titamon]

FYI guys, Lyn learned the art of swordplay from her father Hassur. And the genocide of her clan and parents, by the Taliver bandits, was the primary motivator for her mastering the sword. Turning her into a bow user ruins much of her character motivations. If she's going to avenge her family, then the sword skills taught to her by her father are the perfect tool to achieve this. A bow is an indirect weapon, a sword is close range. The bow is just not as intimate of a weapon as a sword is. So latter imo is more fitting for Lyn to use.

[Lady Sansa]

Lyn should have been killed by Lundgren.

[DarkDestr0yer61]

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Harvey said:

Then why doesn't Athos hand her the Murglesis instead of the Sol Katti?

Isn't this literallythe conversation that is going on?

What difference does it make if Lyn is given a better Katti? Its capable of even rivalling the legendary divine weapons.

Sol Katti

12 might.

14 weight.

+5 res

Super Effective against dragons.

-8 Attack Speed without Body Rings

 

Murgleis

16 might

9 weight

+5 speed

Super effective against dragons.

+2 Attack Speed without Body Rings. 

 

How the hell is Sol Katti better than Murgleis?

[B.Leu]

When I think about it, yeah, Sol Katti, while badass was literallly pulled out at the last second, just like it's dragon-slaying power I guess.

The devs needed to give Lyn a legendary weapon, but since she was a Myrmidon and Eliwood already have the legendary sword , I guess they had to create a new one one.Though giving her the bow would've been badass as well as making sense. Sacae and all.

[Just call me AL]

Another thing that I just realized that might be why Lyn wasn't given Murgleis. The fact that it's a sacred relic of Sacae's would entail going to Sacae to return it. And, unless if I'm not mistaken, there's no guarantee that Lyn would even return to Sacae, given that she has paired endings with Eliwood and Hector.