Jotari

Lyn should have used Murgleis

Lyn should have used Murgleis   58 members have voted

  1. 1. Lyn should have used Murgleis

    • I agree! Legendary Weapons for everyone!
    • I disagree! Those Sol Katti animations are too sweet.
    • Would have made sense if she was a Bow Lord to begin with.

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93 posts in this topic

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a bow lord, as I went through a good deal of Fates as a bow lord, as I find Corrin's passive works better in a support roles anyways. For Lyndis to be an archer would have been kind of strange though... 

"Here's how you play the game, this unit is different from most other units in the game in the regard that it can only attack from two spaces away..." That doesn't seem like a very good idea from a tutorial perspective. 

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Giving her both sword and bow access before promotion would've worked fine, though. Let her start with a sword as she does now, but give her a bow when Will joins and maybe a pony when she promotes. I agree that a pure bow lord without any support abilities (leadership stars or something like that) would be pretty bad.

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3 hours ago, ping said:

Giving her both sword and bow access before promotion would've worked fine, though. Let her start with a sword as she does now, but give her a bow when Will joins and maybe a pony when she promotes. I agree that a pure bow lord without any support abilities (leadership stars or something like that) would be pretty bad.

Honestly, I did a hack of FE7, and my idea for Lyndis was to give her +15 Critical, and make some bows, like the long bow, class specific, and let her use those. That way, she was a combination of a swordmaster and an archer that could use both, rather than you thinking of her as an ineffective nomad. 

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, ping said:

Giving her both sword and bow access before promotion would've worked fine, though. Let her start with a sword as she does now, but give her a bow when Will joins and maybe a pony when she promotes. I agree that a pure bow lord without any support abilities (leadership stars or something like that) would be pretty bad.

Holmes is a pure Bow Lord in TRS till promotion (gets swords) and is a pretty decent unit because he ORKOs basically everything. It just depends how much of the game demands EP combat and what the average enemy quality is like.

Edited by Irysa

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7 hours ago, Augestein said:

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a bow lord, as I went through a good deal of Fates as a bow lord, as I find Corrin's passive works better in a support roles anyways. For Lyndis to be an archer would have been kind of strange though... 

"Here's how you play the game, this unit is different from most other units in the game in the regard that it can only attack from two spaces away..." That doesn't seem like a very good idea from a tutorial perspective. 

Fates also buffed bow users utility.

Kamui isn't exactly a good measure of "the average utility of a bow lord".

7 hours ago, ping said:

Giving her both sword and bow access before promotion would've worked fine, though. Let her start with a sword as she does now, but give her a bow when Will joins and maybe a pony when she promotes. I agree that a pure bow lord without any support abilities (leadership stars or something like that) would be pretty bad.

Dual weapon lords before promotion in concept might sound good.

But when you play a hack when a lord gets that access earlygame... you get an understanding that it's pretty busted.

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1 hour ago, shadowofchaos said:

Dual weapon lords before promotion in concept might sound good.

But when you play a hack when a lord gets that access earlygame... you get an understanding that it's pretty busted.

Also see: the strong viability of Cavaliers in every single title in the series.

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

Dual weapon lords before promotion in concept might sound good.

But when you play a hack when a lord gets that access earlygame... you get an understanding that it's pretty busted.

You're not wrong, but sword+bow is probably the weakest weapon combo a character could have in FE7. It still doesn't provide any 1-2 range (and FE7 is rather EP-heavy) or weapon triangle control. I'd even say that sword+bow is hardly stronger than lancelock or axelock.

@Irysa: Yeah, that's true. Heck, FE6 is a good example for a game with great bowlocked units despite being very similar to FE7 mechanistically, although the higher wyvern density is another big factor in that.

And is it just in my head or is "TRS already did it" the answer to a good response to many "FE should try XYZ" statements? I should check it out some time. :D

Edited by ping

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14 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

Fates also buffed bow users utility.

Kamui isn't exactly a good measure of "the average utility of a bow lord".

True, but if bows remain similar, it wouldn't be nearly as bad. 

Of course not. But with a passive like Corrin's, it's the sort of thing that allows a lord to still be useful with a bow. 

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On 5/12/2017 at 5:33 PM, The DanMan said:

Also see: the strong viability of Cavaliers in every single title in the series.

This is always a big balance question for me. Why do Cavaliers get to move two more spaces AND get one more weapon than any other unpromoted class? Our main characters from FE5-onwards, with a few exceptions, also tend to never have any real advantage over other classes, outside of being forced, and occasionally having better growths.

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I think Lyn getting Murgleis would make sense.  Even with bows being secondary weapon it would still make better sense than Asspull Katti.

 

Hector got legendary axe, Eliwood got legendary sword so it would make sense for Lyn get also one. It being associated with her  homeland is logical as well. Story would need some additional details, but result would be better. 

I may be bit biased because Reinfleche!Lyn >>>>>>>Katti!Lyn, so I am always bit salty when it's turn be completely useless in very last fight.

 

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Posted (edited)

I think Lyn's realiability would been higher if she could use the Murgleis. I've played FE7 a couple times and I NEVER use the Sol Katti on her, even less with the final boss. Why would I even use a sword which weighs her down like she was carrying a wyvern on her back? She's already pretty frail so why handicap her more? I'll just stick to the Mani Katti-Killing Edge strat and make her stand back when the dragon appears.

Bows seem a really good idea for her, both gameplay and lore wise on my eyes. They help her dish good damage with high crit chance and it makes sense for her backstory considering she's a nomad and, well, nomads hunt a lot. 

So yeah, an actual Legendary class weapon would do wonders on her rather than pulling out the #23 mcguffin just so she doesn't feel left out when granda Athos brings toys for everyone. Like that she could deal some ACTUAL damage to Nergal and the boss the weapon was designed to fight against and likely double it (something she's good at because remember, she's basically a Myrmidon).

And finally, that would've make her stand out from the other two lords as Hector wields a giant axe like it's made of paper, Eliwood receives a big flaming sword and Lyn... she gets a sword with a "meh" rate design and a backstory no one knows. A very dissapointing deal for one of the main characters of the game (and my favourite waifu of all the FE games)

Edited by Art23

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Art23 said:

I think Lyn's realiability would been higher if she could use the Murgleis. I've played FE7 a couple times and I NEVER use the Sol Katti on her, even less with the final boss. Why would I even use a sword which weighs her down like she was carrying a wyvern on her back? She's already pretty frail so why handicap her more? I'll just stick to the Mani Katti-Killing Edge strat and make her stand back when the dragon appears.

Bows seem a really good idea for her, both gameplay and lore wise on my eyes. They help her dish good damage with high crit chance and it makes sense for her backstory considering she's a nomad and, well, nomads hunt a lot. 

So yeah, an actual Legendary class weapon would do wonders on her rather than pulling out the #23 mcguffin just so she doesn't feel left out when granda Athos brings toys for everyone. Like that she could deal some ACTUAL damage to Nergal and the boss the weapon was designed to fight against and likely double it (something she's good at because remember, she's basically a Myrmidon).

And finally, that would've make her stand out from the other two lords as Hector wields a giant axe like it's made of paper, Eliwood receives a big flaming sword and Lyn... she gets a sword with a "meh" rate design and a backstory no one knows. A very dissapointing deal for one of the main characters of the game (and my favourite waifu of all the FE games)

I'm all in favor of seeing Lyn get Murgleis instead but I think you're underestimating Sol Kaitti. It's very unlikely Lyn won't be able to double Nergal or the Fire Dragon if you've been training her. Sure the Sol Katti weighs her down by an immense 8 speed but she has a 60% speed growth and a pretty high base (9-11 depending on if you do Lyn mode) and Nergal/Fire Dragon only have 15 speed (16 on Hard Mode). With all that factored in Lyn only needs 26 base speed to double the final bosses which she should have achieved by Level 20/10. It also provides her with a resistance boost to help combat Nergal. You'd have to either not have used Lyn at all throughout the game (in which case a swap in weapon is hardly going to change your mind) or be pretty rng screwed for her not to be able to double the final bosses. The morphs (particularly Urhai and Ursula) are another patter however.

Edited by Jotari

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16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm all in favor of seeing Lyn get Murgleis instead but I think you're underestimating Sol Kaitti. It's very unlikely Lyn won't be able to double Nergal or the Fire Dragon if you've been training her. Sure the Sol Katti weighs her down by an immense 8 speed but she has a 60% speed growth and a pretty high base (9-11 depending on if you do Lyn mode) and Nergal/Fire Dragon only have 15 speed (16 on Hard Mode). With all that factored in Lyn only needs 26 base speed to double the final bosses which she should have achieved by Level 20/10. It also provides her with a resistance boost to help combat Nergal. You'd have to either not have used Lyn at all throughout the game (in which case a swap in weapon is hardly going to change your mind) or be pretty rng screwed for her not to be able to double the final bosses. The morphs (particularly Urhai and Ursula) are another patter however.

Doesn't 26 - 8 = 18? That can't double Nergal or the Fire Dragon with that Speed. Lyn doesn't gain any Spd from promotion either. Unless I'm misunderstanding your statement.

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37 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Doesn't 26 - 8 = 18? That can't double Nergal or the Fire Dragon with that Speed. Lyn doesn't gain any Spd from promotion either. Unless I'm misunderstanding your statement.

Ah. I thought it was 3 speed higher in the Game Boy games but that's only New Mystery. So you'd need 27 speed, or 28 speed on hard mode. Yeah not completely unreasonable but I still expect the large majority of Lyns would be doubling if you've trained them to ~20/18.

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Just now, Jotari said:

Ah. I thought it was 3 speed higher in the Game Boy games but that's only New Mystery. So you'd need 27 speed, or 28 speed on hard mode. Yeah not completely unreasonable but I still expect the large majority of Lyns would be doubling if you've trained them to ~20/18.

A lot of people choose to promote Hector or Eliwood first, though, so maybe they won't have a 20/18 Lyn by endgame. It depends on favoritism I guess, but usually the other two contribute more I think.

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1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

A lot of people choose to promote Hector or Eliwood first, though, so maybe they won't have a 20/18 Lyn by endgame. It depends on favoritism I guess, but usually the other two contribute more I think.

True. I do tend to pile exp on my lords personally, even if they promote super late.

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Posted (edited)

I always promote Lyn first, it would be hard get S rank in bows otherwise. Hector can kill anything with iron sword. Assuming you even bother switch weapons as he would destroy puny swords and axes anyway. As for Eliwood as long as he can use spear/javelin he should be fine.

So yeah, Lyn profit most from early promotion and getting rank in bows.

But last time I played (it was Eliwood mode) I went to final chapter with L20, H20 and E15. In Hector mode they would be all maxed.

Edited by Tenzen12

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On 2017-5-23 at 1:01 PM, Jotari said:

True. I do tend to pile exp on my lords personally, even if they promote super late.

My problem with Lyn is that Eliwood and Hector are more reliave by the time of the story the three are together, so I promote the two latter before her. 

Eliwood is more balanced.

Hector is more durable and strong plus he uses axes.

So Lyn becomes kind of a sitting duck, at least to my eyes.

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