Archanea vs Awakening Continuity

[RedEyedDrake]

Also, the second DLC mission takes place a few days after the end of the War of Shadows while the first would make the most sense if it took place after FE12's own prologue but a little while before FE12's second chapter. So at least one mission takes place before Shadows of Valentia by default and at least one takes place afterwards while the remaining one is up in the air.

Edited April 3, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[Iridium]

in the case of lucina and the falchion, i've always just sort of assumed that it prefers a male descendant when one exists but becomes less picky if one isn't available

elice can't wield falchion because marth is still alive, but in lucina's case chrom is dead so it was her or nothing

i'd like to imagine that the sword isn't dumb enough to let the world end over sexism, and that those making it would implement a failsafe in case some descendant over the course of the next few millennia only had daughters

(this ignores things like inigo but we're probably working off the assumption cynthia is canon anyway so whatever)

Edited April 3, 2017 by Iridium

[MystletainnNavi]

Game Theory: Is the FALCHION MISOGYNIST????

[maybe]

5 minutes ago, Iridium said:

in the case of lucina and the falchion, i've always just sort of assumed that it prefers a male descendant when one exists but becomes less picky if one isn't available

elice can't wield falchion because marth is still alive, but in lucina's case chrom is dead so it was her or nothing

i'd like to imagine that the sword isn't dumb enough to let the world end over sexism, and that those making it would implement a failsafe in case some descendant over the course of the next few millennia only had daughters

(this ignores things like inigo but we're probably working off the assumption cynthia is canon anyway so whatever)

i accept this explanation purely because the idea of falchion being a sexist who has to stop being sexist to save the world is hilarious

[MystletainnNavi]

1 minute ago, unique said:

i accept this explanation purely because the idea of falchion being a sexist who has to stop being sexist to save the world is hilarious

Who's ever heard of a sentient swo- Oh wait, Skyward Sword exists

[MystletainnNavi]

2 minutes ago, unique said:

i accept this explanation purely because the idea of falchion being a sexist who has to stop being sexist to save the world is hilarious

Who's ever heard of a sentient swo- Oh wait, Skyward Sword exists

[MystletainnNavi]

Why did that send twice....

[mikethepokemaster]

3 hours ago, Michelaar said:

I am actually really happy. I seem to be one of the few people who really enjoyed Awakening. Off course, I don't deny the games' many plotholes. But it's great they have decided to elaborate on Awakening's final boss, which wasn't very fleshed out. 

No your not a lot of people like Awakening it just... Dislike of Awakening are louder. Awakening my favorite fire emblem and with Echoes tying in Grima it make Echoes my 2nd favorite.

[Acacia Sgt]

From what I remember, the whole "only males" was only in localization.

It's just simpler to accept the localization made a retcon, or has lesser canon priority than the Japanese original, or just headcannon that in the localized canon there was a restriction, but then was lifted most likely when the blood-bond was reforged with the First Exalt.

At least, to me I'd go with original canon and not overcomplicate.

[The DanMan]

3 hours ago, Hero of the Fire Emblems said:

Before we even approach the suggestion, there is a damn reason they redesigned Falchion in 11/12 to NOT look like Tyrfing.

And then went and had Tyrfing drawn to look identical to Falchion in Seliph's Heroes art.

As for the two Falchions debate: the reason it looks different in Awakening is because, though the blade is indestructible, the hilt isn't. Yeah, it doesn't match up, but it's a handwave of an aesthetic change.

[Azure Sen]

1 minute ago, The DanMan said:

And then went and had Tyrfing drawn to look identical to Falchion in Seliph's Heroes art.

Tyrfing in Seliph's Heroes art is drawn the same way Tyrfing's always been drawn. See also: any art from the Genealogy artbooks.

[The DanMan]

2 minutes ago, AzureSen said:

Tyrfing in Seliph's Heroes art is drawn the same way Tyrfing's always been drawn. See also: any art from the Genealogy artbooks.

Okay, looking over things again it's not "identical" to the Akaneian Falchion but it looks pretty similar.

[B.Leu]

For the record, there was a time where the Master Sword didn't choose it's wielder at all. Sometime, it was a legendary sword you had to pick up and nothing else.

Until the oh so, glorious and logical Skyward Sword/Timeline said otherwise. Then few years later, A Link Between World came out, when you had to gain the three pendants... just like in A Link to the Past. Talking about Falchion is already weirdish enough, but comparing it to the Master Sword, and you breed headaches for everyone. :p

Also, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to use Chrom as a proof, considering that it's direclty contradict the fact that he is an idiot.
Or pretty much everyone. It's pretty clear that the DLCs were written for fun and nothing else.

[Sentinel07]

I'm pretty sure the whole "Only males can use Falchion" thing was just something added in the localization of Shadow Dragon and is no longer true.

[HK Motendra]

8 hours ago, AzureSen said:

Because Elice can't use Swords in FE1, and the Falchion was most likely coded to only be usable by Lords in FE11. Chalk it up to gameplay and story not matching up, because that still doesn't answer why Gharnef thought he could use Falchion against Medeus without Marth.

That wasn't even a mistranslation, they purposefully changed several references to other FE games in the translation for some reason.

8 hours ago, Hero of the Fire Emblems said:

Because they straight up say Gharnef is "using Falchion as leverage over Medeus" to try and control him.

He is straight up stated to think he can control Falchion. And this is before he and Marth cross paths; not to mention Aum just revives the person normally so he's not trying to make Marth into a zombie or anything if you're suggesting that. Aum seems more likely a selfish thing in case somehow Imhullu fails.

Or, new alternative: By using Elice to wield the Aum, he could revive one of Anri's descendants, if not Anri, HIMSELF, put them under a spell like he did with Tiki, and presto!

Now, as for the original purpose of the thread, trying to compare the continuities of two eras separated by two MILLENIA, is apples to oranges; the two are so far apart that they might as well be considered two different continents all together, with the only thing that links them together is the passage of time. Sure, Ylisse is definintely related, but with so much that COULD happen in that span, of course there will be things that don't line together. That's why Chrom's Falchion looks and serves another purpose than Marth's, which was just a mere dragon slayer (as with the Fire Emblem as well, but not with enough explanation). Thats why, while Naga is referenced much in Archanea, never actually makes an appearance, barring a yet to be realized (in power) incarnation, while in Awakening, there she is in all her glory (as a spirit, but still present).

Really, the only hole left to fill is what happened to the Binding Shield that warranted both its redesigning and re-purposing? All that we really know is that after Grima's initial defeat, the gems were scattered, and Falchion's power was sealed so as to prevent the power of both artifacts from being abused.

The extra Chapter 6 of SoV may be the closest thing we have to any of those things being answered, if at all.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Motendra
answering the OP, again

[Slumber]

6 hours ago, IcyHeroGamer said:

Who's ever heard of a sentient swo- Oh wait, Skyward Sword exists

Sentient swords are all over the place in mythology and legends. Excalibur had a mind of its own, and that's the basis for 99% of "special swords".

[HK Motendra]

Also, it'd probably be wise to include a spoiler in the title of the thread, considering where the original discussion of the topic is derived from

[Dragrath]

10 hours ago, AzureSen said:

Admittedly I don't have the source on hand, but wasn't it mentioned somewhere in Awakening that the geographical changes (which looking at the two maps side-by-side, mostly seem to be that the ocean level lowered in some areas, creating islands and connections that didn't exist prior) were due to Grima's destructive rampage?

This is an interesting note as on earth this is exactly what happens during an ice age on earth. If the conflict removed the water either by triggering an ice age (which would be easy considering how Grima blighted out the sun during their revival, then pretty much all of the geography changes can be explained simply though many years of perpetual darkness cooling the world long enough for a runaway freezing affect. Also importantly that doesn't preclude hot environments from occurring in the world either deserts tend to be hot during the day due to lack of water to mediate the affects of light (and conversely tend to get cold at night) Now FE doesn't necessarily, if at all, follow real world logic but the fact that a real world explanation can cover the geography changes makes this seem like a minor thing when cataclysmic monsters exist. 

 

As for the Falchion being male only thing I'm 99.9999...% sure that is wholly a localization thing and not actually canon

[Emperor Hardin]

15 hours ago, AzureSen said:

Him being not sealed away was a plot point, now that my memory is jogged, since not being sealed away with his brethren and the events he experiences because of it play a major part in why he chose to form Dohlr and enslave humanity.

So yeah, the whole "Medeus not being revived is bad continuity" argument is pretty thoroughly debunked at this point, I feel.

Medeus said himself he'd return, and Awakening has continuity error after continuity error already. Even the Fire Emblem is different.

They even got little details wrong like claiming Dragonstones are found in caves.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Emperor Hardin

[Salamud]

GWAH...! WHY......? WHY... HAVE I... BEEN DEFEATED... SO EASILY...? IS THIS... THE POWER... ...OF NAGA'S... BINDING SHIELD...? KNOW THIS, HUMANS... THIS LIGHT IS ONLY A BRIEF RESPITE... SO LONG AS EVIL LURKS WITHIN THE HEARTS OF MAN... SHOULD THIS ACCURSED SHIELD BE LOST, WE SHALL RISE FROM THE DEPTHS OF HELL... DO NOT... EVER FORGET...

He says "We" not "I." Unless this is a Woolseyism by the translators for New Mystery then Medues pointed to the sealed Earth Dragons here. This would still be the case even if Medeus is dead for good.

[ClassyWolf]

There are a couple of inconsistances I can think of, like manaketes beeing nowhere to be seen even though supposedly saved by Marth, or that all manaketes share the same dragon model even though several tribes exist, or that dragonstones on Awakening are apparently mined.

Though I think Awakening  has a larger problem with missed opportunities, like didn't Merric and Elice ever have kids? And how they would have interracted since they would most likely have the brand as well.

Or if they could be high ranking mages in what was Khadein in the past, like if the ciy is still there but it has become isolated and the brand would have a completely different meaning there.

But thats whising for what could have been.

Edited April 4, 2017 by ClassyWolf

[Azure Sen]

40 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Medeus said himself he'd return, and Awakening has continuity error after continuity error already. Even the Fire Emblem is different.

Medeus giving the most generic JRPG villain dying speech isn't proof of anything (and, as Salamud said above, he was more likely talking about the Earth Dragons, not himself). In contrast, him dying three times, having to be revived after the first two times, being unable to revive himself on his own, and Gotoh explicitly saying that he's been "obliterated" after his defeat in (New) Mystery is far more firm on the "Medeus is gone for good" side.

Also, if you're going to bring up Awakening's continuity errors, you may want to start with something that isn't explained. The Shield of Seals, much like the Falchion, is still made by mortals despite the divine materials used to forge it and thus has to be reforged, like how the everything about Falchion aside from the actual blade must be reforged.

@ClassyWolf, you'd have to remind me where it's said that Marth saved any Manaketes aside from Tiki. Nowi and Nah are presumably Divine Dragons as well, given that they use the same type of Dragonstone and assume the same dragon form as Tiki. The Dragonstone thing I'll give you, because how Dragonstones work is pretty inconsistent.

Edited April 4, 2017 by AzureSen

[RedEyedDrake]

2 hours ago, AzureSen said:

The Shield of Seals, much like the Falchion, is still made by mortals despite the divine materials used to forge it and thus has to be reforged

I'm pretty sure that the entire Binding Shield (Orbs and all) was made by the dragons.

[Dragrath]

4 hours ago, ClassyWolf said:

There are a couple of inconsistencies I can think of, like manaketes being nowhere to be seen even though supposedly saved by Marth, or that all manaketes share the same dragon model even though several tribes exist, or that dragonstones on Awakening are apparently mined.

Though I think Awakening  has a larger problem with missed opportunities, like didn't Merric and Elice ever have kids? And how they would have interacted since they would most likely have the brand as well.

Or if they could be high ranking mages in what was Khadein in the past, like if the city is still there but it has become isolated and the brand would have a completely different meaning there.

But that's wishing for what could have been.

The dragon bit is yeah honestly disappointing though I feel that was probably more to limitations/laziness than anything.

The part about the stones being mined could actually be true as a remnants from dead Manaketes as after all couldn't Tiki use other dragonstones? (I assumed it was  more like archaeological digging taking stones from the past to be honest) But yeah Awakening feels like they forgot a lot of the world building bits from before or something.

However descendants of say Merric or even a city over two thousand years later might not be very significant or likely honestly... Though more connections would have been cool.

[Moblin Major General]

20 hours ago, Hero of the Fire Emblems said:

Before we even approach the suggestion, there is a damn reason they redesigned Falchion in 11/12 to NOT look like Tyrfing.

Only for Tyrfing to look more like Falchion in Awakening (probably a coincidence, as Tyrfing has a triangular hole instead of a rounded one).