Are you okay that [spoilers] is in the game?

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I meant Jugdral when I said Archanea.

For some reason, I thought the opening specified a time prior to Jugdral when all this shit started. Apparently it's just "A long time ago".

The Grann Calendar doesn't state much. In fact, the only thing before the rise of the Loptyr empire is just the foundation of the Grann Kingdom, then Republic. Nothing about the dragon wars.

[Melissa]

I'm currently neutral. I need info before I can form an opinion. 

[TheWerdna]

13 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Anankos is definitely the strongest dragon we've seen, purely because it seems like he can do literally anything.

It's not so much a "Loptyr was the strongest dragon" it was more "Loptyr as an Earth Dragon seems more impressive than Grima if Grima is supposed to be EVERY OTHER Earth Dragon".

Then again, Anankos' good half seemed to be at awe at how powerful Naga is. Even if he only had a faction of his original power (very likely), his phrasing seems to indicate that Naga's power is not something to be laughed at, even when compared to himself.

But let's not get into Fates, since frankly Fates' story makes no goddamn sense and makes the gaping plotholes of Awakening seem like minor nitpicks by comparison.

Edited April 4, 2017 by TheWerdna

[Slumber]

6 minutes ago, TheWerdna said:

Then again, Anankos' good half seemed to be at awe at how powerful Naga is. Even if he only had a faction of his original power (very likely), his phrasing seems to indicate that Naga's power is not something to be laughed at, even when compared to himself.

But let's not get into Fates, since frankly Fates' story makes no goddamn sense and makes the gaping plotholes of Awakening seem like minor nitpicks by comparison.

Yeah. For as nebulous as Grima was in Awakening(And is getting some clarification here), Anankos was on a whole other level. Turns out it's tough to build up a villain when they make it impossible to talk about them without invoking a curse for most of the game.

Grima and Loptyr seemed to get off on people just saying their names, even if the Grimleal was underground for 3/4 of Awakening.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Slumber

[pinguyFrank]

i think its a good effort to establish connections within games and detailed world building Gaiden itself does not have a lot to offer by the tech limitation of its origin release days  this retcon and additions give a better flow of the lore.

[Medeus]

I voted neutral, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

On the one hand, I won't deny I have my concerns as I'm not a big fan of Grima and the last time IS tried to incorporate Awakening elements into something it ended up being a huge mess at best. However, reading the details we have gotten I'm starting to come around to it. Grima as a villain was terribly underdeveloped to start with, so giving him this backstory where you flesh out his origins by making him a crafted abomination of man that resents his creators does help in making him at least somewhat more memorable. It also gives him a bit more to stand out from Medeus and Loptyr since now he's not exclusively repeating the crazy dragon trend they did and is bringing something new to the table that hasn't really been done by either. So as long as it's done well and works itself into the events of the game without throwing off anything, I have no problem with it.

I do agree it still leaves a good amount of questions and plot holes in some other areas for Awakening's backstory, but eh, baby steps.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Medeus

[Time the Crestfallen]

56 minutes ago, Medeus said:

I voted neutral, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

On the one hand, I won't deny I have my concerns as I'm not a big fan of Grima and the last time IS tried to incorporate Awakening elements into something it ended up being a huge mess at best. However, reading the details we have gotten I'm starting to come around to it. Grima as a villain was terribly underdeveloped to start with, so giving him this backstory where you flesh out his origins by making him a crafted abomination of man that resents his creators does help in making him at least somewhat more memorable. It also gives him a bit more to stand out from Medeus and Loptyr since now he's not exclusively repeating the crazy dragon trend they did and is bringing something new to the table that hasn't really been done by either. So as long as it's done well and works itself into the events of the game without throwing off anything, I have no problem with it.

I do agree it still leaves a good amount of questions and plot holes in some other areas for Awakening's backstory, but eh, baby steps.

Well it'll be a lot harder to screw it this time. It's a lot easier to have a reason for Alm and Celica to go to another continent then it is for Inigo, Owain and Severa to go to an entirely different world, especially since they won't be getting wrapped up in Fates' mess of a story.

[Folt]

Theory: The dragon corpse used to create Grima was an Earth Dragon. So zombie Earth Dragon infused with Divine Dragon blood.

[Heptade]

I liked Fates a lot, but the one thing I loathed about that game was the poorly implemented fanservice. Fan-favourite character clones (or actual characters travelling through dimensions)? Child characters growing in the Outrealms? That didn't make sense at all.

What we have here is actually intelligent "fanservice" tying the games together and explaining some underdeveloped plot points from an earlier game. Not what the fans asked for, but what actually needed to be explained. So I'm all in favour of this.

[Extrasolar]

I love Grima's inclusion in the game. Considering one of my biggest problems with him in Awakening was that he popped in from absolutely nowhere, I'm all for getting backstory on him. Plus, I'm a sucker for continuity in things, especially in things that take place with centuries separating them. Future world referencing past world, past world foreshadowing future world, all that stuff.

One can only hope we get more of that in the hypothetical Jugdral remakes. Like explaining what the Deadlords' deal is and how they have the Crusader weapons. All that stuff.

[NoNameAtAll]

I'm glad he's in it. Lore-reasons aside, it's also nice to finally fight the fucker for real rather than have the body in the background.

And statistically, it's nice to see he's not a goddamn joke like he was in Awakening.

[Hero of the Fire Emblems]

I'm cautiously optimistic for one reason:

 

Grima technically had a strongly implied backstory; they bang you over the head that he's either connected to or literally is Loptyr, due to the fact the Deadlords- confirmed by IS and Awakening itself to be the same as FE4/5- are said to be loyal to Loptyr, and Loptyr alone. Then there's the fact the Lopto Sect and the Gimle (Grima) Sect have the exact same suffix in Japanese, Grima's Truth having pretty much the same function as the book of Loptyr, the whole needing a vessel thing... they bang you over the head with just about every single aspect that Grima is Loptyr.

 

and this can go one of two ways; one way that makes it make a lot of sense, and another way which completely mangles the continuity and raises even more questions about the damn dragon than we had before.

 

Itd make a fuckton of sense for this Alchemist to be a Loptyrian still pissed about Sileph's victory over Julius and his eradication of the Loptyr bloodline. This experiment works pretty well plotwise being a Loptyrian trying- and succeeding- to revive their dark god. This would obviously carry over Loptyr's hatred of humanity into his new form, and he could be free to forge a new blood pact and create a new bloodline- creating the bloodline of the fell dragon, who bear the brand of the defiler (FE13 Avatar's brand on their hand) to replace the brand of Loptyr.

 

this would make the Kaga era flow as one, cohesive story- Jugdral, then FE11, then during Echoes the villains of Jugdral make a comeback, 12, then the Jugdral antagonists come full force and then Awakening- this would explain a lot of aspects, like Grima's association with undead (the experiments) but also his command of the Deadlords (being Loptyr reborn), his blood pact (Loptyr's second blood pact), his ability to use the Binding Shield aka Fire Emblem, a divine dragon artifact (being reborn using Divine Dragon blood to thwart Naga, his hated enemy), his hatred of Naga (Loptyr despised Naga), and needing a vessel (Galle, Julius, and the avatar, respectively); it might not answer EVERY question, but it would knock most of them out.

 

if he's some random lizardfaced fuck some asshole nobody made in the desert, well, IS has some explaining to do about all the Loptyr connections Awakening hits you over the head with, the most damning one being the Deadlords and the bloodline thing (including the Grima's Truth tome).

Edited April 15, 2017 by Hero of the Fire Emblems

[NoNameAtAll]

The Awakening Deadlords are just Risen and Grima's Truth is unobtainable Validar-only shiz. And Grima hating Naga can be chalked up to the fact that Grima's literally an unholy abomination.

Clearly, Forneus just did this for SCIENCE.

[Armagon]

I'm pretty sure Grima's Truth didn't require a vessel. Mainly because we see Validar using it and Validar wasn't a vessel for Grima. I mean, he was, but a failed one. If we're going by the vessel theory, Robin should be the only who can use Grima's Truth.

[TheWerdna]

On 4/16/2017 at 3:11 PM, NoNameAtAll said:

Clearly, Forneus just did this for SCIENCE.

At least his ultimate lifeform wasn't something dumb, like say, a anthropomorphic hedgehog. 

I was also going to also say "isn't an edgelord", but then I totally remembered Grim would classify as one.