Duwang Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) I am actually very excited that they are adding Grima to the game. Grima seemed kind of unexplained and bland in Awakening, and I find it super cool that they are actually going to more or less explain Grima in SoV. Plus, I love how this now connects Valentia and Archanea even more. I'm pretty hyped that they chose to go with all of this worldbuilding. Edited April 3, 2017 by Duwang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel07 Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Honestly, from what I hear so far, I'm happy with it. Echoes's story isn't devalued by this as it's just an extra, and establishing more continuity here is okay since Valentia and Archanea are in the same world. At the very least, it's no where close to the stupidity that Fates tried with it's Awakening nods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) He had to be explained somewhere. Since Walhart was the first in Awakening to learn about him outside of Grima's followers, it actually kind of makes sense that he'd have learned that his ancestor(Alm) found and fought Grima in the past. Grima in Awakening just kind of comes out of nowhere. All of the other big dragons in FE history have had fairly extensive backstories that were fairly straightforward, except Grima(And I guess Anankos). However, as we all know, trying to tie Awakening into other Fire Emblem games could have been a huge detriment to the game. This seems like it more or less makes sense. I'm not happy about it, but I'm not upset about it. Edited April 4, 2017 by Slumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragrath Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Sentinel07 said: Honestly, from what I hear so far, I'm happy with it. Echoes's story isn't devalued by this as it's just an extra, and establishing more continuity here is okay since Valentia and Archanea are in the same world. At the very least, it's no where close to the stupidity that Fates tried with it's Awakening nods. Aye it also sort of provides motivation for Walhart (though it would still need more of a connection to strengthen the connections to that plotline as Alm's descendants) Say Alm's line that eventually led to Walhart carrying down the knowledge that Alm regretted awakening "Grima". Thus post near apocalypse That heavy burden would drive him to try and rectify things. That could have left an opportunity to make a less Deus Ex Machina like end solution for the final battle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Leu Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) Eh, imagine if chapter 6 ended with Grima being killed. Like, really killed. No ressurection, no suish exalt, no reforged impractical Falchion, no Grima BS ex machina, no time travel. Just killed. Because in the end, we all know that Grima will just fall sleep, it would be a rather crappy and predictable ending to SoV, so... Too much of a wet dream to be true, but one can dream. Edited April 4, 2017 by B.Leu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stewart Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I'm happy, but not because I'm excited to see Grima. I don't care about Grima and I don't really care about Awakening's universe. What I am happy about is that it seems to be getting Awakening fans who may have been somewhat ambivalent towards the game interested/excited in it. I also appreciate that he seems to not be interfering with Gaiden's main plot and is really just an extra thing added to the end. So, yeah. It's getting people excited for the game without interfering with the original narrative. Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) May I use this thread for a theory? I've been thinking, with this new information, Grima is essentially a Divive Dragon gone berserk right? Could Grima be what Tiki would have become if Naga didn't put her to sleep? When I think about it, we don't see any berserk Divine Dragons in FE3/FE12 do we? I could be wrong though. Anyway, this whole thing give many new possibilities for theories regarding Dragons, the Risen and the Deadlords. Hey, Vincent, if you don't mind me asking, does the texts in Chapter 6 mention anything about Divine Dragons other than their blood? Edited April 4, 2017 by Water Mage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Water Mage said: May I use this thread for a theory? I've been thinking, with this new information, Grima is essentially a Divive Dragon gone berserk right? Could Grima be what Tiki would have become if Naga didn't put her to sleep? When I think about it, we don't see any berserk Divine Dragons in FE3/FE12 do we? I could be wrong though. Anyway, this whole thing give many new possibilities for theories regarding Dragons, the Risen and the Deadlords. Hey, Vincent, if you don't mind me asking, does the texts in Chapter 6 mention anything about Divine Dragons other than their blood? Not quite. Spoiler It's not stated what tribe the dracozombie was when it got injected with the blood, from what it has been revealed so far. The situation is not the same as Tiki's. We don't see them because they all died off, and the only ones around became Manaketes, which would negate the degeneration, anyway. Unless you mean going berserk in a different way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Boom Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) The main core of Gaiden is disconnected from Awakening. Echoes is basically taking Gaiden and adding a Metroid: Zero Mission flair to it: remaking the original game with modernized, cleaner gameplay elements, and then adding in a final, unexpected chapter after the presumed end of the original story, as a means of fanservice and getting lore established. It's completely harmless, and it gives the newer fans who entered into the series via Awakening a thank-you present from the developers for trying their hand at some classic Fire Emblem. There's not really anything to lose here. Edited April 4, 2017 by Sonic Boom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said: Not quite. Reveal hidden contents It's not stated what tribe the dracozombie was when it got injected with the blood, from what it has been revealed so far. The situation is not the same as Tiki's. We don't see them because they all died off, and the only ones around became Manaketes, which would negate the degeneration, anyway. Unless you mean going berserk in a different way. It is true that we don't know what tribe the dracozombie was from, but since it was given Divine Dragon, it seems to have become as powerful as one. And it was said that Tiki could have destroyed the world if she wasn't put to sleep, and considering what Grima did in Lucina's timeline, a comparison can definitively be made between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sonic Boom said: The main core of Gaiden is disconnected from Awakening. Echoes is basically taking Gaiden and adding a Metroid: Zero Mission flair to it: remaking the original game with modernized, cleaner gameplay elements, and then adding in a final, unexpected chapter after the presumed end of the original story, as a means of fanservice and getting lore established. It's completely harmless, and it gives the newer fans who entered into the series via Awakening a glimpse of older Fire Emblem tales and how they're connected to Awakening. There's not really anything to lose here. There absolutely is. This doesn't really negatively impact Gaiden/SoV in any way. Compare this to Selena/Odin/Laslow. Even before you get to the cross-dimensional reincarnations of Awakening characters in the second generation, Grima being in Valentia is already a considerable step up. Fates referenced Awakening in a big way to its detriment. SoV is doing it in a way that's not really detrimental or benefit. Edited April 4, 2017 by Slumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I'm pretty happy about this. Grima was the most nothing character in Awakening (even more so than Validar) and it'll be nice to have some explanation about what he is and where he came from. I'm also down for having continuity and connections between games that won't rely on Deep Realms/Dragon Gate/Alternate Universe bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Mortarion said: I'm pretty happy about this. Grima was the most nothing character in Awakening (even more so than Validar) and it'll be nice to have some explanation about what he is and where he came from. I'm also down for having continuity and connections between games that won't rely on Deep Realms/Dragon Gate/Alternate Universe bullshit. Part of the reason this actually works, is because it was pre-established that Awakening takes place thousands of years after the Archanea/Valentia games, with Ylisse being a renamed Achanea, and Valm being a renamed, unified Valentia. And Chrom/Lissa/Emmeryn and Lucina being Marth's descendants, Walhart being Alm's descendant. There's no reason to fuck with time/other universes to try to explain Grima's backstory in a game set thousands of years earlier. Edited April 4, 2017 by Slumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Slumber said: Part of the reason this actually works, is because it was pre-established that Awakening takes place thousands of years after the Archanea/Valentia games, with Ylisse being a renamed Achanea, and Valm being a renamed, unified Valentia. And Chrom/Lissa/Emmeryn and Lucina being Marth's descendants, Walhart being Alm's descendant. Yeah, it's pretty easy if they wanna do a Judgral remake as well, cause that's also part of the universe. Was Walhart really Alm's descendant? I don't remember that, but I wouldn't be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Just now, Mortarion said: Yeah, it's pretty easy if they wanna do a Judgral remake as well, cause that's also part of the universe. Was Walhart really Alm's descendant? I don't remember that, but I wouldn't be surprised. I think it was implied, but I actually can't remember. People seem to talk about it as true, so I'll roll with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Sure. I love Gaiden, but I'm not upset that they're making small changes that tie in the worldbuilding. Being able to visit the far west of Archanea is a neat little expansion. Grima was fairly boring in Awakening so having an explanation for him is fine by me, and also it doesn't feel too in-your-face to me- just a small thing that happens after the main story and scenario, not something that interferes, which would annoy me a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel07 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 17 minutes ago, Slumber said: I think it was implied, but I actually can't remember. People seem to talk about it as true, so I'll roll with it. I do believe that it is stated somewhere what Walhart is descended from Alm. I believe it's also said that if Alm didn't have Celica to keep him in check, he might have turned out like Walhart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) I am conflicted. On one hand, I really liked the "Grima is an amalgamation of the earth dragons plus maybe possibly Loptyr" theory since it explained a lot of Awakening's plot holes regarding the Fire Emblem's use and such. On the other hand, I really like this explanation from a thematic stance: makes Grima stand out a bit as a villain, as rather than being just another crazy evil dragon he instead is an unholy undead abomination (though it does nothing to fix the plot holes) Edited April 4, 2017 by TheWerdna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel07 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 1 minute ago, TheWerdna said: I am conflicted. On one hand, I really liked the "Grima is an amalgamation of the earth dragons plus maybe possibly Loptyr" theory since it explained a lot of Awakening's plot holes regarding the Fire Emblem's use and such. On the other hand, I really like this explanation from a thematic stance: makes Grima stand out a bit as a villain (though it does nothing to fix the plot holes) Well, it at least explains some things like his connections to the Risen and possibly even why Naga can't kill him (both having Divine Dragon blood perhaps). The only real thing that needs an explanation is how the functions of the Falchion and Binding Shield changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) Personally, I don't think that part of the theory has been disproven. Grima still ends at the Dragon's Table, with the Earth Dragons, no? So perhaps the whole fusion thing comes after his first rampage, not before. Edited April 4, 2017 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 Just now, Sentinel07 said: Well, it at least explains some things like his connections to the Risen and possibly even why Naga can't kill him (both having Divine Dragon blood perhaps). The only real thing that needs an explanation is how the functions of the Falchion and Binding Shield changed. True. Thinking about it, considering this Grima seems to be much much much weaker (and smaller) than the one from Awakening, perhaps he DID do something akin to the amalgamation theories that use to exist: absorbed/consumed the power of the earth dragons sealed away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 My only problem with the whole "Grima did the fusion dance with the Earth Dragons" thing is that it seems like a Divine Dragon that obtained the powers of all the Earth Dragons should have been waaaaaaay more powerful than Grima was. He had some nifty utility stuff going, but his actual abilities were more or less exactly the same as Loptyr, arguably weaker, in fact(And Loptry didn't even have a body for more than a few seconds at a time). So either Loptyr was just THAT powerful for an Earth Dragon, and the rest of his clan was a bunch of jobbers by comparison, or Grima got power through some other method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWerdna Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Slumber said: My only problem with the whole "Grima did the fusion dance with the Earth Dragons" thing is that it seems like a Divine Dragon that obtained the powers of all the Earth Dragons should have been waaaaaaay more powerful than Grima was. He had some nifty utility stuff going, but his actual abilities were more or less exactly the same as Loptyr, arguably weaker, in fact(And Loptry didn't even have a body for more than a few seconds at a time). So either Loptyr was just THAT powerful for an Earth Dragon, and the rest of his clan was a bunch of jobbers by comparison, or Grima got power through some other method. Which means we have plot holes regardless of what we do. Still, I will take "power levels are bullshit" type plotholes over "what the hell happened to the other Earth Dragons and why does Falchion and the Shield of Seals do completely different things" plot holes Edited April 4, 2017 by TheWerdna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, Slumber said: My only problem with the whole "Grima did the fusion dance with the Earth Dragons" thing is that it seems like a Divine Dragon that obtained the powers of all the Earth Dragons should have been waaaaaaay more powerful than Grima was. He had some nifty utility stuff going, but his actual abilities were more or less exactly the same as Loptyr, arguably weaker, in fact(And Loptry didn't even have a body for more than a few seconds at a time). So either Loptyr was just THAT powerful for an Earth Dragon, and the rest of his clan was a bunch of jobbers by comparison, or Grima got power through some other method. I wouldn't say Grima could be classified as a Divine by only having the blood, but perhaps that may be it. Divine or not, perhaps there would be a compatibility issue since it would not be the same as the Earth Dragons its absorbing, so it wasn't an efficient procedure. Then again, that's just conjecture on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warchiefwilliams Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I have little to no problem with this development. Truthfully, if this is done right, it is a neat little bit of worldbuilding for the whole Archanea/Valentia meta. If nothing else, it will be interesting, and this little bit makes me even more eager to play the game for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.