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34 minutes ago, KongDude88 said:

Huh, haven't heard of that. That's a thing they added? When an ally dies, someone nearby will speak? That's interesting. (Sorry if this sounds sarcastic or anything)

Saber literally has a special quote if Genny dies. That's usually for special people like Clive if Mathilda dies. No excuses. 

 

https://pastebin.com/AK1SzJ89

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2 hours ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

I'm glad endings are limited too, because it says a lot about the character and their personality. If people really wanted to change endings and such so bad, they should have also hoped for no supports at all because then they can mold the characters / endings to anything they liked. I get upset when people clamor for these things, and then just bitch about being disappointed when we get what we ask for.

You say that like there haven't been tons of supports that actually affect the endings of characters. Why would people hope for one or the other?

Not everybody is asking for the same things either. 

1 hour ago, KongDude88 said:

So I'm okay with having a few bad endings if someone dies. But I really don't like that Faye is stuck with a terrible end no matter what.

Seriously. I actually like that we have the ability to chose to make endings more tragic (I've been thinking about killing some people off specifically for that purpose) but why does't Faye even have a chance at a happy ending?

Just say she got over Alm and found some vague someone else.

1 hour ago, Thunderstar said:

I haven't read her other supports and the base conversations but now I am wondering why she was even included in the game in the first place. At least Conrad seems to improve the worldbuilding a bit but what about Faye?

I hope that I am wrong and that there are good and interesting things that I haven't seen about her yet.

I think she still has supports with 2 other characters at least. Not to mention there are still base convos and memory fragments or w/e.

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7 minutes ago, ZoeTrent said:

Not everybody is asking for the same things either. 

Therein lies the problem - not a single person in this fandom is asking for the same thing, but instead of appreciating what we got here is yet another topic picking it apart.

The problem isn't IS with FE, it's us.

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3 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Therein lies the problem - not a single person in this fandom is asking for the same thing, but instead of appreciating what we got here is yet another topic picking it apart.

The problem isn't IS with FE, it's us.

It's not like people are here tearing the game to shreds about this. Hell the first post even says it's just personally a bit disappointing but not a deal breaker or big deal.

You can't please everybody, but you also can't expect people to just like what they get or shut up. It's not necessarily a bad thing that there are some things people don't like that's just how things work. Expecting otherwise and saying everybody that has personal grievances is just whining or bitching is unfair.

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5 minutes ago, John_of_Valentia said:

So I'm guessing Faye's ending is pretty much, "Never loses feelings for Alm. Dies alone."? I was hoping she'd get with Tobin.

Not quite. It is stated someone did married her, despite she never giving up on her feelings on Alm. To be fair, the ending also states said person married her even aware of that, so it's not like he didn't knew what he was signing up for.

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1 minute ago, ZoeTrent said:

It's not like people are here tearing the game to shreds about this. Hell the first post even says it's just personally a bit disappointing but not a deal breaker or big deal.

You can't please everybody, but you also can't expect people to just like what they get or shut up. It's not necessarily a bad thing that there are some things people don't like that's just how things work. Expecting otherwise and saying everybody that has personal grievances is just whining or bitching is unfair.

This is not Thane's first topic or post on "something small that I don't like about Gaiden", specifically all the things that needed to change about the base game to even be "passable". I don't mean to pick him out because I have no beef with Thane, he has valid points, but he's not alone. The overarching mentality from the playerbase is that Echoes (or the next FE, whatever) needs to change to conform to their tastes, not the other way around. 

I think you make a valid point, and I don't disagree with you. I wish, however, that we could focus more on the overarching positiveness of not only this game, but every other one as well. Having grievances is okay, but with many you'd think FE was irredeemable trash and that's just not true. You either like something or you don't like something, and that's okay. I'm not overly fond of Tellius, but how often do you see me rain on the parade?

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26 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

This is not Thane's first topic or post on "something small that I don't like about Gaiden", specifically all the things that needed to change about the base game to even be "passable". I don't mean to pick him out because I have no beef with Thane, he has valid points, but he's not alone. The overarching mentality from the playerbase is that Echoes (or the next FE, whatever) needs to change to conform to their tastes, not the other way around. 

I think you make a valid point, and I don't disagree with you. I wish, however, that we could focus more on the overarching positiveness of not only this game, but every other one as well. Having grievances is okay, but with many you'd think FE was irredeemable trash and that's just not true. You either like something or you don't like something, and that's okay. I'm not overly fond of Tellius, but how often do you see me rain on the parade?

I agree that people shouldn't try to focus too much on negatives with these games overall. I don't think I've seen that with Echoes though. Overall it seems like people are very hyped and some are even acting like this will be the new savior of FE or whatever, unless you are talking about loud fans of either the newest or past games that act like one or the other is garbage for garbage fans. Echoes has an interesting and I'd say probably beneficial place in the middle of both though.

Of course hype dies down over time. But I don't think the positive feelings toward the game will go down enough that people will actually see they hate it or most people will start to dislike it.

Regardless I personally think that Echoes looks to be a really great game with a lot to offer that builds on the original and makes it better in many ways. And I don't think I am alone in that sentiment.

For instance although I think supports could be more extensive I think they do the job of "make me care about the units in my army enough to care if they die" well enough. Especially combined with the base conversations and memories (though its funny that the death endings make me want to kill some of them off too).

Overall they have added character, worldbuilding, polish, style, and new mechanics to this game that all together will make the end product great.

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1 minute ago, ZoeTrent said:

Regardless I personally think that Echoes looks to be a really great game with a lot to offer that builds on the original and makes it better in many ways. And I don't think I am alone in that sentiment.

I think we can agree on that! :3

I have my own headcannons of all of these characters (pretty much had to when playing Gaiden), so I'll probably blend that with what's presented in the remake, which ought to make for a very interesting experience. May 19th truly cannot come fast enough!

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41 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Not quite. It is stated someone did married her, despite she never giving up on her feelings on Alm. To be fair, the ending also states said person married her even aware of that, so it's not like he didn't knew what he was signing up for.

And disappears at times too. Tharja/Kellam anyone?

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What struck me about Faye's ending is that she's the only one of the villagers to go back to Ram in the end, whereas Kliff travelled the world while Grey and Tobin become knights in the unified Valentian army. It gives me the sense that they (much like Alm) grew up and matured over the course of the war, while Faye remained the same, clinging to her childhood life.

This ties into what happened in her A support with Alm; what he explicitly rejected there was going back to the village, saying he had things he wanted to do in the outside world. Faye reacted to this by acting like returning to her old village was even more important to her than staying alongside Alm, even at a point where she presumably isn't aware that he's destined to unify the continent or marry a way prettier childhood friend whom he had been consistently more attached to as a young kid.

This makes Faye a thematic contrast not only to Alm but to the other three villagers he grew up with. Her ending is sad, yes, but it does make sense given her unwillingness to grow up when everyone else in her circle of childhood friends did. If she's going to cling so tightly to her hometown at all costs, it makes sense that she would have trouble giving up on her childhood crush who's gone on to much bigger and better things.

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30 minutes ago, hinode said:

What struck me about Faye's ending is that she's the only one of the villagers to go back to Ram in the end, whereas Kliff travelled the world while Grey and Tobin become knights in the unified Valentian army. It gives me the sense that they (much like Alm) grew up and matured over the course of the war, while Faye remained the same, clinging to her childhood life.

This ties into what happened in her A support with Alm; what he explicitly rejected there was going back to the village, saying he had things he wanted to do in the outside world. Faye reacted to this by acting like returning to her old village was even more important to her than staying alongside Alm, even at a point where she presumably isn't aware that he's destined to unify the continent or marry a way prettier childhood friend whom he had been consistently more attached to as a young kid.

This makes Faye a thematic contrast not only to Alm but to the other three villagers he grew up with. Her ending is sad, yes, but it does make sense given her unwillingness to grow up when everyone else in her circle of childhood friends did. If she's going to cling so tightly to her hometown at all costs, it makes sense that she would have trouble giving up on her childhood crush who's gone on to much bigger and better things.

I wouldn't really say she's "childish" she's just a small town girl living in a lonely world who seem's to be attached to that lifestyle. Some people wanna live quite normal lives. Seems she wanted to spend that life with Alm, but it didn't work out. She even seemed to be aware that it probably wasn't going to as it would be clear things are going towards Alm having a much different life from that. Plus she also said she expected him to say no.

She's basically one of the regular ass brown haired villager girl npcs you find all over the place. But she has a crush on a protagonist, and logically he is destined for greater things. Sad.

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38 minutes ago, ZoeTrent said:

I wouldn't really say she's "childish" she's just a small town girl living in a lonely world who seem's to be attached to that lifestyle. Some people wanna live quite normal lives. Seems she wanted to spend that life with Alm, but it didn't work out. She even seemed to be aware that it probably wasn't going to as it would be clear things are going towards Alm having a much different life from that. Plus she also said she expected him to say no.

She's basically one of the regular ass brown haired villager girl npcs you find all over the place. But she has a crush on a protagonist, and logically he is destined for greater things. Sad.

That fucked up IS part O mean Faye overall design is so cute but she was a trope of forever alone or the 2nd female doesn't win at all. There are exceptions like Hinata form Naruto and Orihime from Bleach. Faye I wish you were more than the token childhood friend with a crush. Well she probably going to get hate on by the Alm/Celica fans. 

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I am a little disappointed that Faye gets shafted in her ending no matter what, even if that doesn't make me particularly more sympathetic towards her. As for the rest, I don't mind that they don't change unless someone dies, as I think it's a case of "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" that fits with Echoes's status as a throwback to the older games in the series. I do think that the whole domino effect of one person dying ruining the lives of everyone they're close to is a tad melodramatic, though.

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Faye getting shafted in the manner that she is kinda sucks, though for reasons stated above, it seems that was the inevitable conclusion, given her desire to remain a rural villager when her crush proceeds to become a continent-ruling Emperor King. I wish there was an option to create an "alternate canon" where Alm does return with her, just to see how that would screw up the main canon, as well as making Faye more than just your usual childhood-friend/unrequited-crush trope bearer. While I am at it, I would also like to go to Mars and would like GW to restore Warhammer Fantasy. But hey, shit into one hand and hope into another and tell me which one fills up first...

Faye aside, I actually don't mind the endings too much. Speaking as someone who hasn't really played the older games, I do like how certain characters dying does have an affect on those who were close to them. It helps to make them seem like actual characters rather than faceless mooks, though as AzureSen said, it is a little melodramatic. If nothing else, it will make those classic playthroughs all the more interesting. Can't wait for this game to come out and hopefully I won't be deployed then so I can play it!

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1 hour ago, warchiefwilliams said:

But hey, shit into one hand and hope into another and tell me which one fills up first...

God damn... That's an amazing quote. But I agree, having reactions to these deaths add a lot more character to the... characters. I thought it was lame how nobody gave a damn when their child died in Awakening and Fates. While I'm not as into Faye's character as I was before, it makes me a bit sad that she's stuck with a bad ending.

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Am I the only person that doesn't really see Faye's ending as that bad. Yeah it's saddening, no doubt, but I prefer it to be like this then forever to settle down with Tobin/Kliff/Lukas/etc., mainly because her obsession with Chrom makes it into an even shallower Cordelia situation where she's all about Alm, but this other guy is neat I guess in her support conversations. Having her return to Ram Village, her childhood home, is very fitting for her character, since a lot of her "obsession" stems from her childhood memories. It's not like she dies alone, she has a husband who loves her and even has children with the guy. Sure she'll never have the love of her life, but she still ends up with a family and she gets to live in Ram Village like she wanted too. I think it's bittersweet; it's sad and harsh, but there is a silver lining for Faye.

Also, I do think some of the endings cross into the so tragic it's funny line, i.e. If Mathilda dies, then Clive will die in a pirate attack years later. This is random and weird, since it implies Mathilda being in his life prevents this. Why is he on a boat or in a port town? It leaves so many questions.

IMO, the harshest sounding one is Forsyth's ending when Clive dies, where people say they just see a shadow of Clive in Forsyth. Very melodramatic.

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7 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

Am I the only person that doesn't really see Faye's ending as that bad. Yeah it's saddening, no doubt, but I prefer it to be like this then forever to settle down with Tobin/Kliff/Lukas/etc., mainly because her obsession with Chrom makes it into an even shallower Cordelia situation where she's all about Alm, but this other guy is neat I guess in her support conversations. Having her return to Ram Village, her childhood home, is very fitting for her character, since a lot of her "obsession" stems from her childhood memories. It's not like she dies alone, she has a husband who loves her and even has children with the guy. Sure she'll never have the love of her life, but she still ends up with a family and she gets to live in Ram Village like she wanted too. I think it's bittersweet; it's sad and harsh, but there is a silver lining for Faye.

Also, I do think some of the endings cross into the so tragic it's funny line, i.e. If Mathilda dies, then Clive will die in a pirate attack years later. This is random and weird, since it implies Mathilda being in his life prevents this. Why is he on a boat or in a port town? It leaves so many questions.

IMO, the harshest sounding one is Forsyth's ending when Clive dies, where people say they just see a shadow of Clive in Forsyth. Very melodramatic.

She didn't even end up with the dude he just went after that all and she left her village for how long and told nobody were or why she was gone that long. Her support with Alm was terrible she a bad combo of Cordelia and Tharja for me. But I like her design though. IS probably made to be shit on and that it. Man IS really drop the ball on her.

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8 minutes ago, mikethepokemaster said:

She didn't even end up with the dude he just went after that all and she left her village for how long and told nobody were or why she was gone that long. Her support with Alm was terrible she a bad combo of Cordelia and Tharja for me. But I like her design though. IS probably made to be shit on and that it. Man IS really drop the ball on her.

She marries him, and he knows she likes Alm. At least in the translation I read. Not sure how accurate it is though.

"IS made to be shit on and that's it" Nah, they just wanted another female that way Alm early game isn't a complete sausage fest until you rescue Silque. The fact that she doesn't have any paired ending makes me think she was a rushed character.

Their convos were shit though I agree with that.

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4 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

She marries him, and he knows she likes Alm. At least in the translation I read. Not sure how accurate it is though.

"IS made to be shit on and that's it" Nah, they just wanted another female that way Alm early game isn't a complete sausage fest until you rescue Silque. The fact that she doesn't have any paired ending makes me think she was a rushed character.

Their convos were shit though I agree with that.

I read off of gamefaq she didn't marry the dude she just ignored him that all. She left the village many times though. Yeah she probably was a last minute thing. Echoes to me seem like an side project anyways until the Switch game come out. Wish she got with one of the village boys, mainly with Tobin since he did lose to gray same way with Faye with Alm. 

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I like it.  It's great that the game punishes you for doing things wrong or slipping up.  Every war is brutal, and no war has no casualties.  The fact that the game's endings change based on who's alive makes you feel like the world was impacted.  Yes, the supports don't change many endings, but the fact that death was such an important part of the franchise, and it only effected who you got to use in battle was stale, and dull.  There was little meaning to death outside of gameplay.  This was my favorite thing about Gaiden.  The deaths had weight.  The lives of who you trained in battle mattered.

 It wasn't just, "Oh, I don't get to use Robin anymore, LOL he sucks anyway".  It was, "Oh sh*t, he's actually dead. And the other characters feel that death taking it's toll."  I'm staggered that this was only used in gaiden.  It meant so much that people survive the war.  In real life, people die, and they f*cking die.  You can't escape grief.  Putting that emotion in a game and having the endings effected based on how well you played was genius for its time, and I'm happy that it's here.  Also, F*ck faye.  She was a shitty Catria Archetype anyway.  I'm going to not recruit her with Alm just for the hell of it.

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The very cynical part in me tells me that Faye is designed as one of those female characters who are obsessed with MU except the game has no Avatar but I can imagine some people self-insering into Alm. Seems like a good half of her quotes are about Alm so you've got a cute girl who exists just to worship someone who is the closest thing to a self-insert. She doesn't even have support bonus with other villagers when Grey/Tobin/Kliff all share it.

Or maybe it's a big and unnecessary "screw you" aimed at people who like to break important canon pairings.

At any rate, expect Faye to be very popular in Japan.

 

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1 hour ago, warchiefwilliams said:

But hey, shit into one hand and hope into another and tell me which one fills up first...

Faye aside, I actually don't mind the endings too much. Speaking as someone who hasn't really played the older games, I do like how certain characters dying does have an affect on those who were close to them. It helps to make them seem like actual characters rather than faceless mooks, though as AzureSen said, it is a little melodramatic. If nothing else, it will make those classic playthroughs all the more interesting. Can't wait for this game to come out and hopefully I won't be deployed then so I can play it!

Wow yeah that is quite the saying. You make that one up yourself? And lol I thought you were saying "it was inevitable that her ending sucks, since she sucks" for a minute. I would like that "Alt Canon" end too. I guess there is always fanfiction. There could be some to show Faye ending up with someone else, getting over Alm, and having a happier ending and life too.

I think Faye is different as a character compared to the rest of the army. Though she isn't the only villager like this. She's like Donnel mixed with Cordelia.

I agree on the characters being fleshed out by the endings and reactions to death.

I still wish we got that FE on mars that they were thinking about when they making Awakening. Now that would be different.

1 hour ago, Dandy Druid said:

Am I the only person that doesn't really see Faye's ending as that bad. Yeah it's saddening, no doubt, but I prefer it to be like this then forever to settle down with Tobin/Kliff/Lukas/etc., mainly because her obsession with Chrom makes it into an even shallower Cordelia situation where she's all about Alm, but this other guy is neat I guess in her support conversations. Having her return to Ram Village, her childhood home, is very fitting for her character, since a lot of her "obsession" stems from her childhood memories. It's not like she dies alone, she has a husband who loves her and even has children with the guy. Sure she'll never have the love of her life, but she still ends up with a family and she gets to live in Ram Village like she wanted too. I think it's bittersweet; it's sad and harsh, but there is a silver lining for Faye.

Also, I do think some of the endings cross into the so tragic it's funny line, i.e. If Mathilda dies, then Clive will die in a pirate attack years later. This is random and weird, since it implies Mathilda being in his life prevents this. Why is he on a boat or in a port town? It leaves so many questions.

IMO, the harshest sounding one is Forsyth's ending when Clive dies, where people say they just see a shadow of Clive in Forsyth. Very melodramatic.

I'm hoping she actually won't end up much more shallow tan Cordelia since there are at least more supports for her and base convos and memories. And as for her ending I think living an unfulfilling life with someone you don't even really have feelings for is a pretty bad end. It doesn't help that it sounds like the guy begged and pleaded for her to marry him and she probably just said yes.

I guess I do agree she's in her village and has a family, but that doesn't really outweigh the rest of the end.

And I guess the one large loss of someone you care about can have big repercussions on where your life goes.

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5 hours ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

This is not Thane's first topic or post on "something small that I don't like about Gaiden", specifically all the things that needed to change about the base game to even be "passable". 

And I've also multiple times expressed the things that make Gaiden stick out, and I've said how happy I am over the inclusion of many features both new and old. Discussing Fire Emblem games is what we do on this forum, and I like to think this thread has been written in a fairly balanced manner - complaining about people having mildly differing opinions strikes me as worse than someone going "hey, this game's looking great, but this one thing bothers me slightly". 

I'm not asking for Echoes to warp around my tastes and appeal only to me, I think it's a bit boring that we who have played Gaiden already know what the endings would be like for the most part and that they don't stick to what has been an RPG and even Fire Emblem tradition for a long time. 

I've already bought the game on my Japanese 3DS and can't wait to play it. Just what more do I have to do in order to be allowed to be critical of this game? Do I need to make a thread about how much I'm looking forward to weapon skills and how I hope that's something that returns in future Fire Emblem games?

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