Origins of Mila and Duma (unmarked Endgame spoilers)

[VincentASM]

Thanks to new content in Echoes, we now have some more backstory about Mila and Duma.

Firstly, this shouldn't be a huge surprise (not much of a spoiler), but the pair are confirmed to be dragons. Typically, in Fire Emblem, the ancient dragons were revered as gods (see Jugdral and Ylisse). So this makes sense.

However, Echoes goes one further by canonising the pair as Divine Dragons. Not only that, but Naga--the Divine Dragon King--is indirectly involved.

EDIT: For the sake of Shadow Dragon continuity, I've (reluctantly) chosen to refer to Naga as a dude. In Japanese, "King" is gender neutral so Naga can still be--and is most likely a woman (see Jugdral and Ylisse, and Nagi in Archanea if you believe the obvious theory).

During the final chapter, Mila appears in front of Alm and Celica during their most trying struggle.

 

Mila

I am Mila, one you call a God... My brother Duma and I created this here land.

Mila
Indeed, that was my name once... However, the current me no longer has that kind of power.

Mila
The Falchion you hold... It was created from the Dragon King Naga's fang, a god-slaying weapon with no equal. Naga knew from the start. The fate that would await us dragonkin who lived for as long as the earth itself... and that was the dragonkin's inevitable descent into madness. Our fate was one of destruction. Knowing this, Naga gave the Falchion to Duma. For the day we could no longer control our impulses and cause calamity to the lands, it would serve as mankind's way of destroying us... the shining hope for the fangless ones. Yet I... To protect my brother, I sealed away the Falchion and myself... I loved and respected my brother and like my brother, I fell in love with humanity. Somewhere, I don't know where... where did we end up going wrong?

Mila
Alm, Anteze... o destined ones. Thank you for overcoming many struggles to reach here... Thanks to your efforts, I now understand the power that mankind possesses. Or perhaps I simply did not wish to admit that mankind could survive through their own power, without the help of us Gods. And perhaps Duma knew this as well... I shall grant the Falchion to you. I pray the Falchion releases Duma from the abyss of pain and despair...

As far as I understand, Mila apparently sealed herself away so humans couldn't access the Falchion. However she didn't realise how far beyond salvage Duma was.

In addition, the 10th and final memory sequence shows Mila and Duma forging the divine accord.

 

Mila

Oh, Duma... why can you not understand? The world I want to create, where all living things can live in peace and prosperity? We can make Valentia a paradise on earth, free from all suffering.

Duma
Such foolishness! What point is there to a world like that? Humans have always survived through their own power... verily, they must strive to test the limits of their power. A life without struggles is but a empty shell.

Mila
That isn't true. During their lives, humans are constantly tested; there's no need for us to burden them further. I wish to rescue humans from their harsh struggles; I want to make their sorrows and pain disappear... Isn't that the responsibility of us who are called Gods?

Duma
Mila... Your blind love will simply lead humanity onto the path of ruin. Humans are weak creatures. Because they are weak, it is our responsibility as Gods to make them stronger.

Mila
...Duma... My one and only brother... We once shared a dream, to create our vision of paradise on Valentia... If we cannot agree, then further discussion is useless.

Duma
Hmph, what you say is true. We traveled to this distant land to seek our paradise... How long ago was that? Even I have forgotten... Mila, it appears we cannot live together. I shall govern over the northern realm, while you may govern over the southern realm. Individually, we shall seek our own ideals, and we shall never trespass into the other's realm; this will be our divine accord. Which of our choices will benefit humanity... time shall tell.

Mila
Indeed, I accept. The fighting has been exhausting. Farewell, Duma, I shall walk my chosen path. I pray that no what matter which side they fall on, humans shall live blessed lives...

Seems pretty civil to me, haha.

Finally, in the amiibo dungeons, there are some stone tablets that feature passages from the Valentian Book of Revelations. There's actually a surprising revelation in there. Chapter 15 which features in the first trailer is not actually about Mila and Duma.

 

The Book of Valentian Revelations

Chapter 2
Duma and Mila, two siblings who existed since ancient times; known as Divine Dragons in a far off land.

Chapter 13
Against the King of the Divine Dragons, Duma ceaselessly argued.

Chapter 15
The earth split, the seas parted, and the heavens themselves threatened to come tumbling down.
The battle transcended any that history had yet know

Chapter 19
The merciful Dragon King gifted the exiled Duma with his own fang.

Chapter 20
The Falchion was the first blade to be crafted from the Dragon King's fang, and the king incarnate.

Chapter 21
Inheritors of the Divine Dragon blood--carriers of the Brand--held the right to invoke the true power of the Dragon King's fang, the embodiment of the king's strength.

Chapter 22
After Duma's banishment, Mila followed. At the end of an arduous journey, the two arrived upon these lands.

Chapter 26
In these lands, Duma seeked the power to dominate all things, while Mila seeked love and assurance; their ideals existed in parallel.

Chapter 29
As war threatened to engulf all things living, and tear the earth and heavens asunder, the thunderous echoes resounded with Mila's despair.

Chapter 30
Even after countless strife, Duma refused to turn the King's Fang on his sister.

Chapter 37
Duma and Mila granted two heroes with the blood of the Divine Dragon, giving them the rights to build their own nations.

In any case, I think it's cool they're unifying the dragons=gods and birthmark=Brand concepts. Plus we learn where Falchion came from, even if does seem a little wishy washy. I guess Valentia's Falchion was the original?
 

Edited April 6, 2017 by VincentASM

[Thane]

Hmm, I just want to clear up a few things here.

What did Mila say when she said she sealed herself off? Was it her plan to let herself be sucked up by Rudolf?

If Naga was a king back then, then I guess Awakening's Naga is his successor, similar to how Tiki took over her role in Future Past? I've not played FE3/12, so I don't know if that's detailed there.

Anyway, cool stuff, thanks for the translations. I do appreciate the worldbuilding and how they connect the Akaneia/Valentia games, but I've got to be honest, I wish they didn't all have to revolve around dragons.

[Acacia Sgt]

Interesting. Although, now I have this image of a toothless Naga. It's probably a good thing Jugdral got a magic tome, and not yet another dragon fang. lol

Just imagining rogue dragons heading all across the world, and Naga leaving fangs behind... pft...

7 minutes ago, Thane said:

If Naga was a king back then, then I guess Awakening's Naga is his successor, similar to how Tiki took over her role in Future Past? I've not played FE3/12, so I don't know if that's detailed there.
 

Not quite. From what I remember, Naga's title is gender-neutral in Japanese, so I guess the King thing is default translation? The subject has been brought up before elsewhere on SF. And technically speaking, they could be the same Naga, considering Nagi who is the reincarnated Naga, unless Nagi died between New Mystery and Awakening.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Acacia Sgt

[VincentASM]

14 minutes ago, Thane said:

Hmm, I just want to clear up a few things here.

What did Mila say when she said she sealed herself off? Was it her plan to let herself be sucked up by Rudolf?

If Naga was a king back then, then I guess Awakening's Naga is his successor, similar to how Tiki took over her role in Future Past? I've not played FE3/12, so I don't know if that's detailed there.

Anyway, cool stuff, thanks for the translations. I do appreciate the worldbuilding and how they connect the Akaneia/Valentia games, but I've got to be honest, I wish they didn't all have to revolve around dragons.

Already explained, but "King" is gender neutral in Japanese, so Naga can still be--and is most likely a woman.

For the sake of Western continuity (and as much as it pains me), I've chosen to make all pronouns male.

TBH, I think dragons are here to stay. They've always had a crucial role in the Fire Emblem games, although sometimes not very obvious. I guess Tellius is the sole exception, but it seems to predate dragonkin history.

[Thane]

4 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

Already explained, but "King" is gender neutral in Japanese, so Naga can still be--and is most likely a woman.

For the sake of Western continuity (and as much as it pains me), I've chosen to make all pronouns male.

TBH, I think dragons are here to stay. They've always had a crucial role in the Fire Emblem games, although sometimes not very obvious. I guess Tellius is the sole exception, but it seems to predate dragonkin history.

Ah, right, you told me about that before. I've always associated 王 with men, but maybe that's because I'm a filthy gaijin and all that. Sorry about that, buddy. 

Oh, I'm sure they are. Well if they keep delivering pretty dragon ladies, I guess I can't complain.

Edit: I almost forgot, but how does Naga avoid getting crazy, then? If Mila and Duma's sanities are/were deteriorating, how can Naga remain sane? Because she's just that much more powerful than them?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Thane

[GrimmLow]

Spoiler

My goodness..it's All connected to Geneaology's lore. The dragons. The Divine Holy Blood. All of it continues to date back to Geneaology's lore. From the Naga brand. To the possibility that Loptyr's bloodline is continued in Grima's. Not to mention the brand of the divine dragons appear on Alm and Celica, like the 12 crusaders, Chrom and Lucina, and the Grimleal. So many connections.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

10 minutes ago, Thane said:

Edit: I almost forgot, but how does Naga avoid getting crazy, then? If Mila and Duma's sanities are/were deteriorating, how can Naga remain sane? Because she's just that much more powerful than them?

Dragons who became Manaketes avoided degeneration. Or basically, those that use an outer vessel to store their power rather than in their own bodies, avoid degeneration. Naga was no different.

[Thane]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

Dragons who became Manaketes avoided degeneration. Or basically, those that use an outer vessel to store their power rather than in their own bodies, avoid degeneration. Naga was no different.

That much I know, but didn't we see Mila and Duma as humanoids in the data files? Or even in one of the cutscenes with Rudolf? 

[RedEyedDrake]

I'm...not going to comment on this subject yet. Maybe in a few months, when all the information from both the English and the Japanese versions has been gathered in various databases.

[VincentASM]

17 minutes ago, Thane said:

Ah, right, you told me about that before. I've always associated 王 with men, but maybe that's because I'm a filthy gaijin and all that. Sorry about that, buddy. 

Oh, I'm sure they are. Well if they keep delivering pretty dragon ladies, I guess I can't complain.

Edit: I almost forgot, but how does Naga avoid getting crazy, then? If Mila and Duma's sanities are/were deteriorating, how can Naga remain sane? Because she's just that much more powerful than them?

Hahaha, that's true. I dunno where SoC and Ice Dragon would be otherwise.

That's a very good question with a very good answer.

Although I guess it depends on your interpretation. You're led to believe the Naga died some time after the war with the Earth Dragons. A dead being can't go crazy, after all. Or it can't cause damage anyway...

Or if you believe the Naga=Nagi theory, Naga slept in an Outrealm. This is also how Tiki staved off craziness until the Binding Shield protected her. No clue how she survived in Awakening though, but I guess she was old enough to control her powers by then?

EDIT

Oh yeah, dragonstones. Young Tiki was special because she was a child divine dragon--and Naga's daughter. So I suppose somebody like Fae had it easy : P

10 minutes ago, GrimmLow said:

  Hide contents

My goodness..it's All connected to Geneaology's lore. The dragons. The Divine Holy Blood. All of it continues to date back to Geneaology's lore. From the Naga brand. To the possibility that Loptyr's bloodline is continued in Grima's. Not to mention the brand of the divine dragons appear on Alm and Celica, like the 12 crusaders, Chrom and Lucina, and the Grimleal. So many connections.

 

Personally I think this was all planned somewhat. Even Tellius has some subtle hints with the Branded. I mean, if you think about it, the Branded are really just pumped up versions of the humans with transfused dragon blood. Which makes sense if Tellius is near the start of the timeline.

Edited April 6, 2017 by VincentASM

[Azure Sen]

Just now, Thane said:

That much I know, but didn't we see Mila and Duma as humanoids in the data files? Or even in one of the cutscenes with Rudolf? 

Tiki had a humanoid form and she was still regularly sealed away/put into a deep sleep by Naga and Gotoh out of fear that she would go mad because of her immense power. Maybe that sort of stasis is something Manaketes need to reign in their impulses?

[GrimmLow]

 What?! Dang. How connected is Geneaology's lore to all of the other FE worlds?

[Acacia Sgt]

I would think Tiki's "brand of potential crazy" is a different kind from the degeneration. Otherwise, why would they have thought to turn humans and create dragonstones if it wasn't going to work anyway (Tiki has a dragonstone, after all).

[VincentASM]

6 minutes ago, Thane said:

That much I know, but didn't we see Mila and Duma as humanoids in the data files? Or even in one of the cutscenes with Rudolf? 

This is just a guess, but I'm assuming Duma was like the Earth Dragons and too prideful to remain in human form for long. Or maybe having a dragonstone isn't enough for some Divine Dragons due to their sheer power.

On a different note, I just realised Chapter 15 of the Book of Revelations might be referring to the Divine Dragon vs Earth Dragon war. I don't know what Duma did to be banished from Archanea, but it must have been serious.

[RedEyedDrake]

1 hour ago, AzureSen said:

Tiki had a humanoid form and she was still regularly sealed away/put into a deep sleep by Naga and Gotoh out of fear that she would go mad because of her immense power. Maybe that sort of stasis is something Manaketes need to reign in their impulses?

Tiki was a special case because she was a child. Gotoh himself says as much. Her being a child means that she lacks mental fortitude and thus would be easily influenced by any destructive urges that she might experience. As for her being a special level of a threat, that is probably because she is, you know, Naga's daughter. As in, the direct descendant of who was probably the most powerful dragon of all for a long, long time.

Edited April 6, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[VincentASM]

Just now, RedEyedDrake said:

Tiki was a special case because she was a child. Gotoh himself says as much. Her being a child means that she lacks mental fortitude and thus would be easily influenced by any destructive urges that she might experience.

Indeed, that makes a lot of sense.

I'm also reminded of Nah's destructive impulses in Awakening.

Really, the dragonstones are more of a tool to stave off the inevitable, not an answer for everything.

We also have (spoilers for Fates)

Anankos going mad even when he had a dragonstone--or the means to create one.

[Acacia Sgt]

4 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

On a different note, I just realised Chapter 15 of the Book of Revelations might be referring to the Divine Dragon vs Earth Dragon war. I don't know what Duma did to be banished from Archanea, but it must have been serious.

I'm not sure if it could be. The Earth Dragons, even if alrady mindless, were slaughtering mankind. I think that would be extreme even for Duma.

[Thane]

5 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

Hahaha, that's true. I dunno where SoC and Ice Dragon would be otherwise.

That's a very good question with a very good answer.

Although I guess it depends on your interpretation. You're led to believe the Naga died some time after the war with the Earth Dragons. A dead being can't go crazy, after all. Or it can't cause damage anyway...

Or if you believe the Naga=Nagi theory, Naga slept in an Outrealm. This is also how Tiki staved off craziness until the Binding Shield protected her. No clue how she survived in Awakening though, but I guess she was old enough to control her powers by then?

 

4 minutes ago, AzureSen said:

Tiki had a humanoid form and she was still regularly sealed away/put into a deep sleep by Naga and Gotoh out of fear that she would go mad because of her immense power. Maybe that sort of stasis is something Manaketes need to reign in their impulses?

I see, so it sounds like there are several interpretations here. I don't know if this is due to a lack of worldbuilding or a conscious effort on their part to have it be shrouded in mystery. 

I remember Nah having periodic outbursts in Awakening. I wonder if she was deteriorating too and it started quicker because she was human, or because she's half human that's the limit to how bad her mental state will get. I mean she and Tiki have a conversation about just how long they'll live, and that they should be friends so that they'll at least have one person to spend eternity with, so I'd guess whatever problem there was they found a way around it, or is that an unreasonable assumption?

3 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

This is just a guess, but I'm assuming Duma was like the Earth Dragons and too prideful to remain in human form for long. Or maybe having a dragonstone isn't enough for some Divine Dragons due to their sheer power.

I see. I take it we don't know why this happens in the first place. Being a dragon in the Fire Emblem mythos must be pretty dreadful. 

This makes me wonder just how long he and Mila have been warped when the events of Shadows of Valentia take place. I mean Duma's got a pretty loyal fanclub of evil dudes.

4 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

On a different note, I just realised Chapter 15 of the Book of Revelations might be referring to the Divine Dragon vs Earth Dragon war. I don't know what Duma did to be banished from Archanea, but it must have been serious.

Well, if he picked a fight with the most powerful dragon in the world, which seems to be in-character for him, I'd say he got off easy. He even got a little treasure to take with him, although I guess it was a security measure in case he ever went bonkers. 

Thank you guys very much for explaining this. It's frustrating to have a few pieces of the puzzles and lack the rest, but I think I get it now. Still trying to get a good sense of the chronology though, and it bothers me that the dragons would just go crazy for no reason. Regardless, thanks!

[VincentASM]

10 minutes ago, Thane said:

I see. I take it we don't know why this happens in the first place. Being a dragon in the Fire Emblem mythos must be pretty dreadful. 

This makes me wonder just how long he and Mila have been warped when the events of Shadows of Valentia take place. I mean Duma's got a pretty loyal fanclub of evil dudes.

Well, if he picked a fight with the most powerful dragon in the world, which seems to be in-character for him, I'd say he got off easy. He even got a little treasure to take with him, although I guess it was a security measure in case he ever went bonkers.

There's one possible explanation, but it's still really shaky. I've always thought the Scouring triggered in Elibe affected the entire Fire Emblem world.

One thing I always believe is that newer FE games often invent new but very subtle explanations of things in older games. In this case, the whole business with the Scouring making dragons go mad seems way too coincidental.

Plus we now know--although you could've guessed before--that Elibe's Dragon's Gate is an Outrealm Gate. So the effects could've reached to other worlds as well.

Hmm, the way they left so many chapters from the Book of Revelations missing is a clear sign they want us guessing. (Gods, I really want all the chapters!)

I don't think Duma directly fought against Naga though. Maybe he instigated the war with the Earth Dragons and Naga punished him for that? If he did fight against Naga, he totally would've got a worse punishment XD

Edited April 6, 2017 by VincentASM

[Michelaar]

Huh, it looks like they are actually on good terms with eachother too. They don't even hate eachother, they just have different views. I really like this.

[Thane]

Just now, VincentASM said:

There's one possible explanation, but it's still really shaky. I've always thought the Scouring triggered in Elibe affected the entire Fire Emblem world.

One thing I always believe is that newer FE games often invent new but very subtle explanations of things in older games. In this case, the whole business with the Scouring making dragons go mad seems way too coincidental.

Plus we now know--although you could've guessed before--that Elibe's Dragon's Gate is an Outrealm Gate. So the effects could've reached to other worlds as well.

I see. I can buy that explanation for sure - it sort of left a wound on the world that rippled across other dimensions, like throwing a large rock into a small lake. That's a pretty neat idea.

2 minutes ago, VincentASM said:

Hmm, the way they left so many chapters missing is a clear sign they want us guessing. I don't think Duma directly fought against Naga though. Maybe he instigated the war with the Earth Dragons and Naga punished him for that? If he did fight against Naga, he totally would've got a worse punishment XD

Or we can go with my "Dragon Eye Hierarchy" theory. Duma's only got one eye, so he's a scrawny pushover in terms of dragondom. Grima's got six, so he's pretty up there, and Anankos is chewing on his, so he's in Valla which is a place for "special" dragons.

3 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

Huh, it looks like they are actually on good terms with eachother too. They don't even hate eachother, they just have different views. I really like this.

I really like that too, but then you remember all the humans who died in their conflict when they could've really just settled this with a simple conversation.

Oh yeah, sorry for my constant questions, but Naga is referenced a lot in Jugdral too, right? Julia can use her Tome or something?

[Acacia Sgt]

Considering it's stated Duma argued with Naga, and considering what Duma's plans for northern Valentia were, maybe that's what lead to their fight.

I still don't think Duma would be involved in the Dragon War, at least on the Earth Dragon's side. They were already mindless, it was more like doing pest control than an actual "war" and clash of ideologies.

[escotanner]

1 hour ago, GrimmLow said:

  Hide contents

My goodness..it's All connected to Geneaology's lore. The dragons. The Divine Holy Blood. All of it continues to date back to Geneaology's lore. From the Naga brand. To the possibility that Loptyr's bloodline is continued in Grima's. Not to mention the brand of the divine dragons appear on Alm and Celica, like the 12 crusaders, Chrom and Lucina, and the Grimleal. So many connections.

 

They really went above and beyond to at least connect it all huh?

[RJWalker]

How does this fit in with Rudolf and Duma's plan? In the original Gaiden, it was them that came up with the plan. Now this is saying Mila was the one?

And what about the scenes in the opening cutscene with Mila (?) grinning like madwoman while Rudolf has the Falchion?

[Pikappa93]

1 hour ago, Thane said:

Oh yeah, sorry for my constant questions, but Naga is referenced a lot in Jugdral too, right? Julia can use her Tome or something?

Yes, and it's actually a big part of Jugdral plot (which takes place before the Archanea saga).

Spoiler

Julia possesses major Naga's blood, inherited from her mother Deirdre, that's why she's the only one able to use Naga's Tome (and thus defeat Loptyr, which is veeery similar to Grima under so many aspect - there are several theories about this). It's pretty complicated actually. To sum up, dragon blood is a very important matter in Jugdral.