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Origins of Mila and Duma (unmarked Endgame spoilers)


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2 minutes ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

It literally says "transfer all their power and will". ALL. Holy shit. Honest quesiton, what do you think transfer means?

Again, the word transfer is just how it was translated, but that doesn't mean that that was the intended word to be used. Furthermore, AGAIN, just as you have been REPEATEDLY saying, KAGA NEVER MENTIONED IT. He never once mentioned that this 'transfer' is any way harmful to the dragons that could cripple and/or kill them. In fact, its even going by how it DOESN'T harm them, as Forseti and Naga are fine and Forseti, despite doing this 'transfer of power ad will', it was stated that he wanted to remain in Jugdral physically to protect them, but was convinced by Naga otherwise.

4 minutes ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

He intentionally looks identical to Medeus' appearance as a Shadow Dragon. Once again, holy shit, how do you keep ignoring what's stated and shown in the game to support your fanfiction.

To things. First, no, he doesn't look like Medeus. We literally see that Loptyr has a serpentine body. Medeus has a western dragon body with wings and arms and legs. And once again, rather than be referred to as a Shadow/Dark Dragon like Medeus is, Loptyr is always called an EARTH Dragon. Kaga himself calls Loptyr that. 

Second, you leave my fanfics out of this. XP

7 minutes ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

The forging of the Binding Shield happened after the Miracle of Darna. So yeah, Naga would be weakened after the Miracle of Darna. Not before though. There is nothing to suggest that Naga was weakened before that.

Look below.

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Just to clarify, but the Shield and second Falchion were made in Archanea Year -740, after the War with the Earth Dragons. Miracle of Darna was in Archanea Year -548. So it was before, not after.

THANK YOU! 

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And for the record, if anything killed Naga outside of natural death, it had to be in Archanea Year -500, the actual year of her death. Even the Miracle of Darna was 48 years before that, and it's not stated the Dragons stayed beyond giving the weapons, as the Holy War itself lasted 16 years. So even with those 16 years, you still have decades between the last time Naga did something significant, and her death.

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7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

And for the record, if anything killed Naga outside of natural death, it had to be in Archanea Year -500, the actual year of her death. Even the Miracle of Darna was 48 years before that, and it's not stated the Dragons stayed beyond giving the weapons, as the Holy War itself lasted 16 years. So even with those 16 years, you still have decades between the last time Naga did something significant, and her death.

I believe what caused that was sealing Tiki away. It was the last thing that's said she did. 

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22 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

To things. First, no, he doesn't look like Medeus. We literally see that Loptyr has a serpentine body. Medeus has a western dragon body with wings and arms and legs. And once again, rather than be referred to as a Shadow/Dark Dragon like Medeus is, Loptyr is always called an EARTH Dragon. Kaga himself calls Loptyr that. 

This is what Shadow Dragons were depicted as. Which is accurate to how both Loptyr and Medeus are depicted as. Medeus has since been revised to having limbs and wings in the remake but we haven't had the chance to see the revision of how Loptyr would look. As it stands, they look identical in their original appearances. 

Also, Kaga calls the Loptyr that made the pact with Galle an Earth Dragon. That is indeed his tribe. But the dragon essence in the tome is clearly a Shadow Dragon as shown in the above images. Why depict him as Shadow Dragon, identical to both how Medeus looked and the official depiction of Shadow Dragons in the TCG if he was not a Shadow Dragon? Absurd.

24 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Just to clarify, but the Shield and second Falchion were made in Archanea Year -740, after the War with the Earth Dragons. Miracle of Darna was in Archanea Year -548. So it was before, not after.

The Shield was made in the year -500, not -740. That was when the war started. The Shield is not mentioned until -500 when Naga died. And only the Shield is given a specific time of creation. From Shadow of Valentia, we also know that the Valentian Falchion was created before the war so it is highly likely that hte Archanean Falchion was also created before the war. Given that the Miracle of Darna happened in -548, which is before the creation of the Shield, we already know the cause of Naga's death. Transferring power into the tome at the Miracle of Darna and the forging of the Binding Shield and sealing of Tiki. And none of these require any injury from the war.

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10 minutes ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

The Shield was made in the year -500, not -740. And only the Shield is given a specific time of creation. From Shadow of Valentia, we also know that the Valentian Falchion was created before the war so it is highly likely that hte Archanean Falchion was also created before the war. Given that the Miracle of Darna happened in -548, which is before the creation of the Shield, we already know the cause of Naga's death. Transferring power into the tome at the Miracle of Darna and the forging of the Binding Shield and sealing of Tiki. And none of these require any injury from the war.

No, the Shield was made in -740. Because Naga made the Shield to seal the Earth Dragons. Naga wouldn't wait 240 years between defeating the Earth Dragons and sealing them up. Same for the sword, it was made shortly after the war, after appointing Medeus to guard the sealed Earth Dragons. -500 is the year both shield and second Falchion were placed in the Fane of Ranam, not when they were created.

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Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

No, the Shield was made in -740. Because Naga made the Shield to seal the Earth Dragons. Naga wouldn't wait 240 years between defeating the Earth Dragons and sealing them up. Same for the sword, it was made shortly after the war, after appointing Medeus to guard the sealed Earth Dragons.

The war started in -740. We're not given a date of when it ended. -500 is when the Shield was sealed. It figures that this was when it was created. If the Shield was created in -740, then you'd need to answer why Naga would 240 years to seal the Shield and the Sword in the Fane.  

Given 240 year gap between the war starting and the sealing of the shield, the war lasted for many, many years (which might also explain why the divine dragons depleted their stones. The events Xane says happened after the war ended (sealing the sword and shield, sealing the temple, telling the dragons to protect humanity, sealing Tiki and dying) are unlikely to have taken 240 years.

Again, the sword is not given a date of when it was created. 

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22 minutes ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

The war started in -740. We're not given a date of when it ended. -500 is when the Shield was sealed. It figures that this was when it was created. If the Shield was created in -740, then you'd need to answer why Naga would 240 years to seal the Shield and the Sword in the Fane.  

Given 240 year gap between the war starting and the sealing of the shield, the war lasted for many, many years (which might also explain why the divine dragons depleted their stones. The events Xane says happened after the war ended (sealing the sword and shield, sealing the temple, telling the dragons to protect humanity, sealing Tiki and dying) are unlikely to have taken 240 years.

Again, the sword is not given a date of when it was created. 

Being the year it was sealed does not equate to the year it was created. The sealing of the shield and sword at the Fane was part of Naga's actions right before she died, considering she also placed Tiki to sleep, and tasked Gotoh in keeping an eye on all of them. So there's no evidence pointing to also being actions done regarding the end of the war, which as you say, there's no confirmation of when it ended. -740 is the only year of the timeline the war is mentioned. So if no other year points to its end, then the only evidence of its ending year is the year -740 itself, since the war is never mentioned again.

In fact, the way Xane words his explanation, it seems the shield was merely placed in the Fane at first, then some time later the sword is created, then both are sealed up. Considering Naga was dying, or knew she'd die, it does lends to believe the sword was made in -500, since Naga herself would die, and so the sword was made so humans could defend themselves since Naga would no longer be around.

Also, it's never stated the Divine Dragons depleted their stones. Xane says they outright died, with only he, Gotoh, Naga, and Tiki being the only survivors of the war. And then even he and Gotoh never depleted their stones, he says they merely discarded them.

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Again, then there would be a downtime of 240 years between the war supposedly ending and the sealing of the shield, sword and Tiki along with Naga's death.

Regardless, that doesn't change my point that Naga was perfectly fine after the war ended for almost 200 years until the Miracle of Darna in -548 where Naga transferred all their power and will into the tome and died only a couple of decades later in -500.

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1 minute ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

Again, then there would be a downtime of 240 years between the war supposedly ending and the sealing of the shield, sword and Tiki along with Naga's death.

Regardless, that doesn't change my point that Naga was perfectly fine after the war ended for almost 200 years until the Miracle of Darna in -548 where Naga transferred all their power and will into the tome and died only a couple of decades later in -500.

Well, as I mentioned, since those events were done in regards to Naga's death, then it doesn't matter if Naga died 240 years after the war ended, or 100, or 1000. They're not related to the war, so it does not matter how much time happened between the war ending and Naga dying.

Oh sure, I never questioned that. Although, I would not think it was creating the Tome what did her in, even if decades after the fact.

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15 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

In which case, its arguable that they weren't all comprised of Divine Dragons, maybe a few at best, but not 12 Divine Dragons. 

Arguable, yes. But absence of evidence (that Naga was the only Divine Dragon of the 12) is not the same as evidence of absence. If even one of the unnamed dragons was Divine, then their inability to fight Loptyr suggests he is strong even for an Earth Dragon. It's not an unreasonable assumption; as you said before, there have been a lot of retcons and not much solid info about that period of time.

6 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Considering Naga was dying, or knew she'd die, it does lends to believe the sword was made in -500, since Naga herself would die, and so the sword was made so humans could defend themselves since Naga would no longer be around.

That's logical, which is why the retcon about the Valentian Falchion raises more questions than it answers.

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We should accept that Awakening was more of a quasi-reboot than just a sequel to Marth's games. As such, even when not retconning they still make us see the older games in a new light.

We know that there's another Falchion meant as a deterrent against Mila and Duma. We know that a Divine Dragon can apparently be corrupted into a shadow form of himself. Who knows what the Judgral remakes will do?

 

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14 hours ago, Salamud said:

We should accept that Awakening was more of a quasi-reboot than just a sequel to Marth's games. As such, even when not retconning they still make us see the older games in a new light.

We know that there's another Falchion meant as a deterrent against Mila and Duma. We know that a Divine Dragon can apparently be corrupted into a shadow form of himself. Who knows what the Judgral remakes will do?

Given how Awakening takes place 2000 years after Marth's time, its not completely unlikely. Awakening is the one and only game we actually SEE Naga, and there's still questions on whether that's actually her.

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I really don't see why we should go into such crazy and overcomplicated depths just to explain that Duma and Mila being Divine Dragons and co is a retcon.  I honestly lost what's the conversation was about. :/

It contradict facts that has been already established in the past games (and explained right in this topic), Ergo, Retcon. It's as simple as that.
Or they just decided to reboot because Kaga's not there to put things in track... which is not really different.

Duma and Mila were gods who did Godly things that no dragons ever could do, ergo they were gods, not dragon. Kaga said that dragons, spirits and gods could live in this same universe he created.

I hate to repeat what I said and what others said, do as if that (re)explain everything and become the captain obvious of the night because it's rude and all... but it does.

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1 minute ago, B.Leu said:

I really don't see why we should go into such crazy and overcomplicated depths just to explain that Duma and Mila being Divine Dragons and co is a retcon.  I honestly lost what's the conversation was about. :/

It contradict facts that has been already established in the past games (and explained right in this topic), Ergo, Retcon. It's as simple as that.
Or they just decided to reboot because Kaga's not there to put things in track... which is not really different.

Duma and Mila were gods who did Godly things that no dragons ever could do, ergo they were gods, not dragon. Kaga said that dragons, spirits and gods could live in this same universe he created.

I hate to repeat what I said and what others said, do as if that (re)explain everything and become the captain obvious of the night because it's rude and all... but it does.

I never said that Duma and Mila being said to be dragons instead of gods wasn't a retcon, cause it was. I'm saying that I prefer this retcon more cause it just sort of fits better with how the lore in the world of Archanea functions, where gods are just powerful dragons. 

Also... I also forgot the point of the discussion. It was about something regarding why Duma and Mila are Divine Dragons now, and then something else happened and yada yada. Eh, either way, that was one helluva fun ride. XD

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I'm surprised that people aren't talking about Archanea finally getting their own water dragons, Dagon. They are Fire Dragon recolors and use Water Breath. Their meat is also a delicacy in Valentia. Thanks for opening a new can of worms, IS. 

Another interesting thing that White Dragons don't look undead anymore but there is still no explanation about their origins.

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13 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Also... I also forgot the point of the discussion. It was about something regarding why Duma and Mila are Divine Dragons now, and then something else happened and yada yada. Eh, either way, that was one helluva fun ride. XD

I was like "why are they talking about x with over one millions words per post ?... Pretty frustrating for me.

Thats reminds me, one thing that annoyed me with what they did to Mila, is that only does it completely destroy precisely what made Dudu and Ruru so good in the first place, but I feel it also destroy her as well, it transform Mila into one of those crappy characters that are all about "Muh humanity so cool" . Who thought it was a good idea to use that cliche ? "We fell in love with humanity"... give me a break.
For a character that was never seen in game and just sealed in a sword, that's saying something. :p


It's as if dragons can only be mary-sues or crappy gods by now.  I even miss the times when they were legal jailbaits.

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2 hours ago, B.Leu said:

I was like "why are they talking about x with over one millions words per post ?... Pretty frustrating for me.

Thats reminds me, one thing that annoyed me with what they did to Mila, is that only does it completely destroy precisely what made Dudu and Ruru so good in the first place, but I feel it also destroy her as well, it transform Mila into one of those crappy characters that are all about "Muh humanity so cool" . Who thought it was a good idea to use that cliche ? "We fell in love with humanity"... give me a break.
For a character that was never seen in game and just sealed in a sword, that's saying something. :p


It's as if dragons can only be mary-sues or crappy gods by now.  I even miss the times when they were legal jailbaits.

Cause that's how debates are. And why I like them. Its really fun. As long as it doesn't get so bad that we start insulting one another. 

I dunno. I kind of like that Mila got a real personality now. We never actually saw the extent of how her side of things were bad, exactly how lazy the Zofia was becoming, and how misguided she was herself. Thing was, it was mentioned that Naga didn't like to meddle in the affairs of humans. Now that we see Mila and Duma being Divine Dragons and wanting to help them directly through their extreme views, we're seeing that Naga had a point in wanting to avoid meddling in the lives of humans. 

Mila was kind to a fault. In fact, we see her flaws that she couldn't acknowledge humans as being able to overcome struggles and such, and should instead forever live in luxury, but this made humans unable to work hard, and forever dependent on her. 

And Mila wasn't the first one to love humanity a great deal. FE4's Forseti was stated to love humans a great deal that had he the choice, he'd have remained in Jugdral as their protector. If he remained there, who knows how things would have gotten for Jugdral. 

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I know what debates are. But it got really every-freaking-where to the point of me being utterly confused on the how and why.. :p

Dragon are supposed to be race, not anymore. they're not even a race like back then. They're just gods/mary-sues/plot devices created for conveniences sake.
There's a trope called 'Humans are special', and in anime and manga. or japanese anime-game whatever, they really love that one to the point of stupidity. One of the things that made me run away from a lot of anime. :p

Comparing Mila and Hoselti is tricky. Since he is stated to have loved humanity, on paper, on the facts... He's cool yeah, but aloof and distant to a fault. Thought we don't exactly know how much far the possession of Levin was. And I really don't trust IS to change things for the better on that one.
At least, unlike some he actually get the job perfeclty done without some conveniently placed deus ex machina while staying realistic on what the heck is happening. (Gee, people die when they are killed)
If Naga didn't like to lend a hand to people, it was because she was dumb, or dead. Or a status quo lover. Or humanity lover. In any case, she was crap.

...but, wihle I think about it, banishing Mila and Duma was flat out dumb and OOC as all hell coming from Naga. She's not the kind of person who let people who can spread trouble just get away, she'd rather have them locked in the tablet as it was shown multiple time, same with giving them weapons that could kill them, normally she gave them to the humans in case dragons went awol, which Duma and Mila are now. Damn, Naga must really have smoked some weeds for coming up with that one.
Huh, another reasons for me to not like that one. It makes every characters seems dumber than I imagined.

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2 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

I know what debates are. But it got really every-freaking-where to the point of me being utterly confused on the how and why.. :p

Not gonna lie. I tend to go overboard at times. XP

3 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

Dragon are supposed to be race, not anymore. they're not even a race like back then. They're just gods/mary-sues/plot devices created for conveniences sake.
There's a trope called 'Humans are special', and in anime and manga. or japanese anime-game whatever, they really love that one to the point of stupidity. One of the things that made me run away from a lot of anime. :p

In that part, the only other race in Archanea are taguel, and they were never introduced until Awakening, despite being said to have existed for a while, and the taguel only became a thing because the Tellius series Laguz were so popular. If we focused on only dragons, the game would be vastly different. So we have to rely on humans. Very few franchises have humans be less relevant to plot. Dragon Ball Z is surprisingly one of those that makes humans mostly irrelevant for the plot, since the main hero Goku, isn't even a human.

5 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

Comparing Mila and Hoselti is tricky. Since he is stated to have loved humanity, on paper, on the facts... He's cool yeah, but aloof and distant to a fault. Thought we don't exactly know how much far the possession of Levin was. And I really don't trust IS to change things for the better on that one.
At least, unlike some he actually get the job perfeclty done without some conveniently placed deus ex machina while staying realistic on what the heck is happening. (Gee, people die when they are killed)

That's just it. We don't know the true Forseti, nor do we know the true Mila, and nor do we know the true Naga. Naga only appeared in Awakening, and that's debatable on whether its the real her. Mila never showed in Gaiden, not did she even speak really. She was just there as the plot device. Forseti didn't make a true appearance and even when possessing Lewyn, it wasn't a full possession like Loptyr, it was more of a mixture of personalities. Forseti seems to act aloof as Lewyn with Lewyn's family, but I think its more that Forseti cannot handle the emotions in regards to the family because he wasn't truly Lewyn. All we have to go for is Kaga's word on how Forseti is, and its pretty much him saying that his 'youth' as a dragon made him far more passionate for humans than the other dragons. 

To be honest, the Forseti tome doing the same thing on Lewyn despite Lewyn dying is also in a way of a deus ex machina. And he didn't exactly get the job done perfectly, since he made many leaps of faith and had Seliph try to become strong mostly on his own. Forseti for the most part only acted as a guide, but never steered Seliph. 

11 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

If Naga didn't like to lend a hand to people, it was because she was dumb, or dead. Or a status quo lover. Or humanity lover. In any case, she was crap.

Look what happened when Mila and Duma got involved with humanity. The entire issue where one country becomes tyrannical, and the other becomes lazy. Forseti taking over Lewyn made him so cold and indifferent even towards Lewyn's own family and unable to bond with them. Forseti knew he just ruined an innocent man's ties to his family. While sure he helped bring a terrible war to an end, what he did was still cruel. 

Naga's viewpoint likely was this: because humans and dragons have lived so far apart in views and powers, where dragons can use magic beyond human's wildest imaginations, trying to involve themselves with humanity is rushing humans before they can truly learn and develop. She was likely believing that dragons and humans couldn't truly live together in peace yet, and she was right, the very fact that humans grew prejudiced towards Manaketes. However, she still did hold love towards humanity, given that she considered killing her own daughter Tiki out of fear that a degenerated Tiki would result in the extinction of humanity. 

Naga loved humans, but she was realistic in a sense that dragons and humans coexisting before humanity was ready was a bad idea, and she was right. 

16 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

...but, wihle I think about it, banishing Mila and Duma was flat out dumb and OOC as all hell coming from Naga. She's not the kind of person who let people who can spread trouble just get away, she'd rather have them locked in the tablet as it was shown multiple time, same with giving them weapons that could kill them, normally she gave them to the humans in case dragons went awol, which Duma and Mila thankfully are now,
Huh, another reasons for me to not like that one. It makes every characters seems dumber than I magined.

I'm STILL trying to understand why Duma was banished. It was Duma that was banished and Mila merely followed suit.

Also, you're describing her as downright cruel and evil here. She sealed the Earth Dragons cause there was no choice. They were degenerated and they had to be stopped. It was likely impossible to kill them all, so sealing them was the next best choice. 

And again, I personally prefer how Mila and Duma are portrayed. Now they aren't so out of place and it really ties in with other stories and doesn't seem out of place that much, and we get a better understanding of them, rather than see them as one dimensional. Least we see now that both Duma and Mila had complication, but they had the best interests in mind, but were just too extreme in their views. 

Which makes me understand that Naga wasn't wrong in her views on humans and dragons.

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Which is quite telling, since Levin did a much better job in ten years while being support or so then most of his kind in hundreds while being gods or old farts. :p
To me it's less deus ex machina and more of a miracle (get it?), since, if I remember correctly, it's implied he was ressurected with Valkyrie Staff, and his otme had (like a few others) had dragonstones, who transfered the will of Hoselty.

I'm not seeing that Naga was cruel... I'm saying she was kinda dump but pragmatic, as the games shows. Giving a legendary sword that was created to kill dragons in case they went crazy, only to give it the very exact same tdragon this sword was created for it ridiculously dumb and OOC from Naga.
I may not have the best opinions of Naga, but she is not that dumb.

Don't create things man, humanity has nothing to do with the dragon tablet or anything attached to it.
Dragon started to degenerate and go berserk. ergo, Naga and co said: "okay, let's be careful and let's make sure that we don't ruin the world for others, saner races, then" dragonstones so that dragons could take human form and not go awol, dragon tablet to seal off the berserk dragons (that actually were of all races if I remember correctly), and the fire emblem to keep the seal in place. That's it..
It has nothing to do with humans and dragons not being able to live in peace or like the writers want us to believe by now. Same with them loving humanity.It's all retcons and 'let's go with that as if we did not pulled crap out of our asses.'.

Loving humanity is a really piss poor reason to place in a game that is about war in any case. :p

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By the time Levin was possessed, the dragonkind was mostly extinct, so not exactly sure how that's even a comparison.

No, we get how the will got transferred, though I do not recall how the Valkyrie staff was involved here. However, the fact that Forseti came out of nowhere in the end despite how he wasn't even related to the plot before suddenly became someone that was guiding the next gen to fight Loptyr. 

So its not that you were annoyed by Naga doing it, but rather you don't like that the WRITERS made Naga do it. That much I'll agree with. I don't get how giving Duma the Falchion was gonna work, as that could have easily backfired. 

Dragon tablet?

The dragonstone and manakete form were the Dragon elders' idea, not Naga's. Naga just agreed to it. It was the only chance for the dragons to even survive, as there were no other solutions involved. Naga might have loved humans, but she believed that surrendering the dragon rule to mankind was their only option. No dragon wanted their race to face extinction, but it was pretty much likely to happen, but all they could do was prolong their life and wait to see how the world changes. Of course, she and the others would never have foreseen that some dragons were too prideful to ever refuse to such an extent that they'd rather die or become a mindless beast than become human. 

The thing where the Dragon's Table had all races in it was FE12, and originally in FE3 had only Earth Dragons. Also, given that the Shield of Seals banished only Earth Dragons, its unlikely that the other dragon tribes were sealed there, and they were merely gathered there. Gharnef likely did that for all we know. Cause it was only mentioned that the Earth Dragons were sleeping there, no other dragons. And the Fire Emblem WAS sealed in the Fane of Raman, but then Adrah broke in as a thief and stole it, then became king of Archanea. Falchion was also sealed away, and Gotoh only bestowed it to a human in the time of need, that being Anri. 

So really, Naga did create and go with stuff to help humans out without directly involving herself. Unfortunately, events took place that were beyond her control. 

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It's a good comparison because HoseltyLevin did more things than all of the other dragons we're shown (this one is important) in ten years. Without any deus ex machina (anime level I mean), all the while being relatively human about it. :p
It's not really that much of deus ex when you think about it, it seems like the dragons weren't as dumb as leaving humans fully unchecked just in case two half-sibblings had sex and made the anti-christ. Funny how a 16-bit game thought that far.

It's implied by the opening of FE4 after having finished it a certain number of time, you see Holsety ressurecting Levin with Valkyrie (No, really. Don't ask me how it work, it just looks cool), and then, there's the interview/Databook/Whatever.
For the record, it's one of the many things that make me very wary of IS touching FE4's story. Levin is such an interesting character precisely because of what you don't know. Is he truly  100% possessed ? Is he just carrying Holsety's will ? Both ? Is he even alive ? Heck, I've see a fanfic where he was a zombie/vampire/ghoul. He is very dedicated to his task, but isn't above showing emotions to his family. Some of them are less than good, but with Teeny, he outright cry. It's s just a tear, but it's here. There's a lot of way to see his character, and I don't trust IS to not screw up.
Then, there's the incest. :p
I put a ':p', but the incest is actually a part of what make FE4 and taking it away would be less than desirable.
It's almost like deconstruction of Fire Emblem....which now I think it is. Medieval times are medieval, so it's tough to live there, violence is common, war is hell, incest, underaged sex and drinking is not that frowned upon, bandits things are not pretty, people are easy to manipulate and actually die when they are killed, politics is a hot topic. Heck, even the Camus archetype is deconstructed. Huh. Took my sweet time.
Completely out of topic with this one, but I said it again, I don't trust IS to not screw it up if they do a remake of FE4.

Dragon tablet. Dragon table I always mix up the name, my bad.
From what I've seen, the dragon table has always been iffy for pretty much everyone, it's supposed to only hold berserk Earth Dragons, but that's a shitton of Earth dragons then, and you ask yourself 'So what, only Earth dragon goes there ? I thought it was all dragon that can go berserk....'
One of the 'special case' of Fire Emblem.

The Naga we're told about, by lore and his/her actions show that she is pragmatic, ergo, big headaches against those contradictions found there :p
Ever funnier, is that she had gone as far as sealing away her daughter in case she went berserk. And she just make two divine dragons go away ? I don't buy it. it doesn't make sense. Especially since Duman and Mila are supposed to be god-like which means that, if we follow the logic of SoV, they are even more scarier than a berserk Tiki.
They are ready to build a prison for dragons, do blood pacts that last for generation to defeat an evil dragon and just in case his will come back, but they let those two get away ? And give them a gift along the way Nope. Just nope.

I did say "Naga and co". :p
I really don't see where you've seen that Naga "loved" humanity though, letting humans having the upper hand because sterility and degeneration,, m'okay, but not loving humans. :/

Edited by B.Leu
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That's just it though. It WASN'T 100% Forseti. It was stated that it was more of a combination of two personas mixed together, as when Lewyn took the Forseti tome, he took in a part of Forseti's will within him. When he died, Forseti took over. How the Valkyrie staff comes to play in this, I don't know, especially given that it was Claud's last, and going by that, Claud'd had to have died for someone else to have gotten it. Or rather, his children should be the ones to have it after his death. Also, if dragons did remain there and were worshipped, it would really have been a matter of time before someone tried to stir trouble up. The entire conflict in the first half of Genealogy was because of humans manipulating events. Just like there, the humans could have cause something that would have done a lot of damage to the dragons in some way. 

Furthermore, if dragons retaliated, you're essentially bringing what will amount to the Scouring here. Dragons and humans fight against one another in a war. Naga's pragmatic view that humans and dragons were not ready to be together was right in my opinion. Humans WEREN'T ready. When they are so close to power that's right in front of them, its only a matter of time before someone covets the idea of becoming a god themselves. 

That's part of why I have doubts on FE4 getting a remake. If they remake it, they HAVE to include every plotpoint that made FE4 great. However, given how Shadow Dragon was a huge mistake, they won't make it mostly a copy and paste with some minor edits. Instead we'd have some changes where they'll try to get more in depth with the other dragons, involve some more characters possibly, expand the story if they can, even link it to Grima if you really wanna go there. Why Grima? Simple. The number of parallels between Grima and Loptyr are immense. And given the deadlord things and how that alchemist even found out about these parasites that create Risen, its likely these parasites originated from Jugdral, hence how the Deadlords in FE4/5 were even made. 

Its a magical seal created to imprison dragons there. You honestly want to ask how thousands of dragons fit in there? Its probably a pocket dimension for all we know, and given how Naga bends space-time, not a strength to believe that's possible. Yes, all dragons can go berserk. But Earth Dragons were the most dangerous, and actually attacked the humans. Where did the Fire and Ice Dragons mostly go? To volcanos and mountains, where humans don't really live in. The Earth Dragons were the only ones that posed the real threat. 

First off, this apparently happened when it was STILL the Golden Age of dragons, meaning no degeneration even occurred yet. Second, Tiki was only an INFANT and Naga feared the girl's power. Imagine a little girl growing up and being driven insane. She'd be so strong that Naga would be no match for her. Tiki's pretty much been hinted to have powers rivaling, if not surpassing Naga's. So sending Duma and Mila away was actually believable somewhat. I just don't get why she gave Duma Falchion, which is the only thing I find ridiculous.

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But there's a lot info that contradict it. Or not. That's what's fun about FE4.

I always seen the dragon table as huge as hell, so... I mean the thing was created to contain crazy dragons. It got to be big.

You're creating things again and tying things that had nothing to do. :p
In FE1/3, Dragons (or Manaketes, whatever) were persecuted. The only one that was worshipped as a god was Naga, whom is dead since I dunno. And I don't even remember he/she was worshiped a dragon or a hero. And then, there was Holsety and co, but that one it a big maybe. I don't think they were actually worshiped aa gods, but as spirits or whatevers (but the point is moot since they're dead. :p) That, or my memory play tricks on me. That happens.
Scouring were all about some legendary weapons causing massive meteo catastrophe. Not dragons.

That's my point. Tiki is supposed to be perhaps as strong as Naga and is sealed away out of fear just in case, which establish once again that dragons are supposed to be just that, big magic lizards. But meanwhile, you have Duma and Mila, now retconed as fully grown divine dragons, who go willy nilly at Valencia with zero problems and do god-like stuffs, which is even more dangerous than a berserk Tiki.
You really don't see the problem or I'm the only one who see it ?

Edited by B.Leu
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