Origins of Mila and Duma (unmarked Endgame spoilers)

[omegaxis1]

19 minutes ago, Dragrath said:

Lorewise their best bet to deal with these kinda details is to  actually come up with what triggered the degeneration in the first place as we still don't know the underlying mechanics of it.

An interesting point. We don't actually know what caused the degeneration to happen, just that it did happen. Xane explained the first thing to go was the ability to conceive. Then it was their minds degrading. 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

I mentioned how they have a lot of power as well. They don't need to assume dragon form to access their powers. Also they were exiled from the tribe BEFORE the degeneration kicked in, meaning they were never even aware of how Dragons were told to seal their power in stone. Not sure if Mila and Duma were ever given the memo in Valentia. 

That makes no sense. We see them forge the divine accord with human forms. Manaketes had no reason to have human forms before the degeneration set in. It's not a natural process for them. Most dragons choose to die than physically change themselves. Not saying you're wrong mind you, just that IS goofed pretty largely there.

1 hour ago, Dragrath said:

Before looking at this thread I had assumed it was because they degenerated into wild animals more or less that they stayed able to reproduce but really this bit seems to be one of those lore details that has either been intentionally dropped for them or retconned considering it seems to be a perfect example of "Writing yourself into a hole"

Lorewise their best bet to deal with these kinda details is to  actually come up with what triggered the degeneration in the first place as we still don't know the underlying mechanics of it.

So it might be the degeneration signs are akin to primitive diagnosis. i.e. you have a set of typical symptoms but they can vary in how they appear.

But that said The similarity of the species that formed the Necrodragons and Wyverns might very well be the same tribe with far larger numbers and a global distribution.

Perhaps they were the "insects" of the dragon tribes producing lots of weak offspring instead of a few strong offspring. Thus the hit from degeneration was insufficient to remove there reproduction? 

From what we have seen would it be ok to hypothesize that the more magical the dragon the harder they seem to have been hit by degeneracy?

My personal speculation/headcanon is that perhaps wyverns are more like the Ancestral line of dragons that never really ventured deeply into magic and thus came out relatively unscathed when whatever unexplained plot device caused degeneracy.

But really anything in this department seems to be grasping for straws from a canon that has been trying to work their way around the literary hole they worked themselves into lorewise.

If there's any past event that should be covered by a new game it's the start of the Degeneration. Unlike the ancient hero's stories we know next to nothing about it meaning they have a lot of free rein to make an interesting story without being constricted too much by canon. And it would allow for a lot of nice fan service cameos without being contrived.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Jotari

[Dragrath]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

That makes no sense. We see them forge the divine accord with human forms. Manaketes had no reason to have human forms before the degeneration set in. It's not a natural process for them. Most dragons choose to die than physically change themselves. Not saying you're wrong mind you, just that IS goofed pretty largely there.

I didn't see anything contradictory there with all the magical powers these godlike  divine dragons have (as well as how easily affected their forms are by their powers) it would make sense for two divine dragons who are living among humans to take a more humanlike form. (Noting that their "human" forms are less human than most Manaketes)

Plus seeing how much Naga loves humans as well as Naga crafting at least one Falchion well before degeneracy and the likes It makes more sense why such weapons might exist pre-degeneration. Changing shape seems to come easier to them than other dragons and I don't think we should forget about Xane who took shapeshifting to a whole new level After sealing his power(meaning who knows how potent it was before)

I can easily by this as a divine dragon trait after all IS never said they couldn't shapeshift before... It also gives precedent to where they might of gotten the idea. So while it is a retcon I don't think it is a goof for the divine tribe at least.

 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Dragrath said:

I didn't see anything contradictory there with all the magical powers these godlike  divine dragons have (as well as how easily affected their forms are by their powers) it would make sense for two divine dragons who are living among humans to take a more humanlike form. (Noting that their "human" forms are less human than most Manaketes)

Plus seeing how much Naga loves humans as well as Naga crafting at least one Falchion well before degeneracy and the likes It makes more sense why such weapons might exist pre-degeneration. Changing shape seems to come easier to them than other dragons and I don't think we should forget about Xane who took shapeshifting to a whole new level After sealing his power(meaning who knows how potent it was before)

I can easily by this as a divine dragon trait after all IS never said they couldn't shapeshift before... It also gives precedent to where they might of gotten the idea. So while it is a retcon I don't think it is a goof for the divine tribe at least.

 

Now that I think about it, you're right. It isn't all that strange if its something (near) exclusive to Mila and Doma at the time. It would also help explain why they're actually going mad despite having human forms. They didn't seal their power but still took a human form for a lot of the time. So the onset of madness has a taken bit longer than a vanilla dragon but is still definitely happening. Of course if that is the case then them not getting the memo and converting to dragonstones is a bit strange considering how close the two continents are. I like it better when Valencia was a remote island.

[omegaxis1]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

If there's any past event that should be covered by a new game it's the start of the Degeneration. Unlike the ancient hero's stories we know next to nothing about it meaning they have a lot of free rein to make an interesting story without being constricted too much by canon. And it would allow for a lot of nice fan service cameos without being contrived.

Given how the time of degeneration is during the time of dragons, I highly doubt that we'll have that kind of game ever made, same reason why I have doubts on getting a game based off the Scouring like BlazingKnight wanted, since again, its mostly dragon enemies. 

If anything, I'm more willing to bet that they'll make it like Echoes and have Memory Prisms or special DLC depicting the story or some parts of it. 

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Now that I think about it, you're right. It isn't all that strange if its something (near) exclusive to Mila and Doma at the time. It would also help explain why they're actually going mad despite having human forms. They didn't seal their power but still took a human form for a lot of the time. So the onset of madness has a taken bit longer than a vanilla dragon but is still definitely happening. Of course if that is the case then them not getting the memo and converting to dragonstones is a bit strange considering how close the two continents are. I like it better when Valencia was a remote island.

There's a little thing where Werdna and I discussed where we think that dragons ALWAYS had the ability to take human form. However, the process of becoming a Manakete was to completely seal off their draconic powers. Mila and Duma clearly didn't seal their powers off as Mila's power is what allowed the land to flourish in Zofia, whereas Duma used his powers to give humans incredible strength. 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Given how the time of degeneration is during the time of dragons, I highly doubt that we'll have that kind of game ever made, same reason why I have doubts on getting a game based off the Scouring like BlazingKnight wanted, since again, its mostly dragon enemies. 

If anything, I'm more willing to bet that they'll make it like Echoes and have Memory Prisms or special DLC depicting the story or some parts of it. 

There's a little thing where Werdna and I discussed where we think that dragons ALWAYS had the ability to take human form. However, the process of becoming a Manakete was to completely seal off their draconic powers. Mila and Duma clearly didn't seal their powers off as Mila's power is what allowed the land to flourish in Zofia, whereas Duma used his powers to give humans incredible strength. 

I don't see why being during the time of dragons would prevent it from being a game. Humans still existed during that time and presumably had all their empires and stuff around. A quick look at the timeline on the Fire Emblem wiki even shows that the original Gran Republic existed around the same time. The only possible thing interfering it is Gotoh Giving magic to humans which I'm not sure when that occurred. But even without that we could have humans using Valentia style magic. And even taking humans to be completely primitive in that era, why not have a game where you play as a manakete lord involving themselves in manakete affairs? Would make for an interesting change of pace at the very least.

I don't think Duma and Mila's power is an indicator of anything, much like their draconic features in human form. Naga most definitely became a manakete and still had amazing powers, as presumably did the other dragons that created Jugdral's weapons. The only thing that could suggest OG dragons are any stronger than manaketes is the increased stats of feral dragons in FE3/12. But that could just as easily be down to them being more vicious.

[omegaxis1]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

I don't see why being during the time of dragons would prevent it from being a game. Humans still existed during that time and presumably had all their empires and stuff around. A quick look at the timeline on the Fire Emblem wiki even shows that the original Gran Republic existed around the same time. The only possible thing interfering it is Gotoh Giving magic to humans which I'm not sure when that occurred. But even without that we could have humans using Valentia style magic. And even taking humans to be completely primitive in that era, why not have a game where you play as a manakete lord involving themselves in manakete affairs? Would make for an interesting change of pace at the very least.

I don't think Duma and Mila's power is an indicator of anything, much like their draconic features in human form. Naga most definitely became a manakete and still had amazing powers, as presumably did the other dragons that created Jugdral's weapons. The only thing that could suggest OG dragons are any stronger than manaketes is the increased stats of feral dragons in FE3/12. But that could just as easily be down to them being more vicious.

Well think about it. Dragons serve mostly as high level enemies that are hard to kill and you face them mostly when your team has acquired enough power or strength, and until then, you face mostly human enemies or zombies. The Grann Empire is Jugdral continent, and it was said that humans were only beginning to flourish in the golden age of dragons. They were very primitive compared to Jugdral. The degeneration time cannot be truly made into a game due to the fact that humans aren't strong enough to truly oppose dragons. In fact, it's even shown that the Earth Dragons growing savage had left humans on the very brink of extinction in Archanea. 

It was only after the dragon war that Gotoh later established the city of magic and began teaching humans magic. 

Actually, it was shown that Manaketes are generally powerless without their Dragonstone, even more frail than humans. Naga in Awakening is some astral energy being at that point, and Tiki doesn't show any special vast power for battle beyond her dragon form (unless you count how she reclasses in Awakening, but generally speaking, storywise she always fights in dragon form). I can't speak much for Duma since he seems to either be an eyeball or decayed dragon form, but Mila showed that even in her human form, her power can already reach out and bring crops to life, and the moment her power was sealed, crops failed and Terrors rose up. That's already showing that her powers are always active and being used, which is incredible and something Manaketes shouldn't be able to do without their dragonstones. 

The case of the Jugdral weapons is forging a blood pact and making a weapon that holds a dragonstone in it. That's not really showing a vast power as opposed to making a powerful weapon like Falchion. 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Well think about it. Dragons serve mostly as high level enemies that are hard to kill and you face them mostly when your team has acquired enough power or strength, and until then, you face mostly human enemies or zombies. The Grann Empire is Jugdral continent, and it was said that humans were only beginning to flourish in the golden age of dragons. They were very primitive compared to Jugdral. The degeneration time cannot be truly made into a game due to the fact that humans aren't strong enough to truly oppose dragons. In fact, it's even shown that the Earth Dragons growing savage had left humans on the very brink of extinction in Archanea. 

It was only after the dragon war that Gotoh later established the city of magic and began teaching humans magic. 

Actually, it was shown that Manaketes are generally powerless without their Dragonstone, even more frail than humans. Naga in Awakening is some astral energy being at that point, and Tiki doesn't show any special vast power for battle beyond her dragon form (unless you count how she reclasses in Awakening, but generally speaking, storywise she always fights in dragon form). I can't speak much for Duma since he seems to either be an eyeball or decayed dragon form, but Mila showed that even in her human form, her power can already reach out and bring crops to life, and the moment her power was sealed, crops failed and Terrors rose up. That's already showing that her powers are always active and being used, which is incredible and something Manaketes shouldn't be able to do without their dragonstones. 

The case of the Jugdral weapons is forging a blood pact and making a weapon that holds a dragonstone in it. That's not really showing a vast power as opposed to making a powerful weapon like Falchion. 

Well one, on the gameplay front, when manaketes are actual enemies, they turn up much earlier than you suppose. Chapter 9 in Shadow Dragon, Chapter 11 in Mystery of the Emblem, Chapter 12 in Blazing Blade. FE1 and FE6 features an isolated boss and then steadily introduces them as regular enemies but FE3 throws the player right into it with several chapters filled to the brim with dragons. Only the Tellius games really hold true to dragons appearing in the final act. Wait, actually you fight a lone dragon even earlier in FE3 around Chapter 7 or so, but still, the game's not afraid to throw dozens of them at you around the halfway mark. And yes you might say Marth's army is made up mostly of veterans but there's nothing stopping the same from being true in a new game. It's all a moot point anyway since a story set in that time wouldn't necessarily have to focus on dragons from the start. There could be human conflicts with stakes that effect things. The degradation could secretly be human in origin as they try to discover and control magic without understanding it (or with understanding it and genocidal intent). There's nothing stopping a story being set in that era save a lack of imagination. The humans are only primitive compared to the dragons, and personally I'd like to see how high tech their advanced civilization was. Even taking them to be primitive on a human standard, the word is very loose. It could be like Grandbell was Rome (with the whole republic it had going on) and the lands in Archanea were like the Vandals. Comparatively primitive but still perfectly capable of doing all the things kingdoms in Fire Emblem does.

We have absolutely no metric to say how easy or difficult things like crafting legendary weapons and forging blood pacts is compared to allowing crops to grow. For all we know Mila's blessing could have just been a good irrigation plan carried out by magic. We also don't know what percentage of time she spent in dragon form vs human form. Celica was able to recognize her large dragon corpse as her immediately which means she doesn't spend so much time in human form for it to be an unrecognizable facet of her.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Jotari

[TheWerdna]

16 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

But that is true. if the dragons ended up feeling virtually immortal, the point of having kids is not really necessary. It is possible that assuming Manakete form and avoiding degeneration has possibly weakened the infertility rates, thus after enough time passed, they could mate once more. Though Wyverns had it better since their weaker power let them survive extinction.

 

 

It didn't even have to be a thing due to choice. I mean, when your entire species is functionally immortal (only dying due to outside causes), overpopulation could be a big problem. Thus they could just naturally have had a very low birthrate to begin with, where its very hard for dragons to conceive children, thus ensuring a balance between their low rate of death (which would only happen due to violence or perhaps rarely disease). My best guess to explain Nowi's existence would be that while full degeneration results in infertility, the dragons who became manaketes early enough in their degeneration could still have children, just perhaps at an ever more reduced rate than before

 

14 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

An interesting point. We don't actually know what caused the degeneration to happen, just that it did happen. Xane explained the first thing to go was the ability to conceive. Then it was their minds degrading. 

I would argue that it was most likely due to their vast power, considering their solution to the problem was to become Manaketes and seal away their power in dragonstones. Also explains evidence we have in Awakening in the form of Nah that suggests that when entering dragon form, they become more feral and animalistic. Which would make sense in this regard: as tapping into that power would cause them to to grow a bit more feral. So it may very well be that dragons were simply so powerful that long term their minds could not handle their own power.

And when I say long term, I really mean long term. Evidence from Echoes suggests that degeneration was actually a very long process, given that Duma was banished and he and Mila arrived in Valentia at least 1600 years (almost certainly longer, as that was just when the accords were made) prior to the war between the Divine and Earth tribes. Given Naga gave him Falchion incase they went crazy, it seems like degeneration was a thing that at least innitally progressed very very very slowly, taking centuries if not millennia to fully run its course. I mean, we have at least 1600 years between a time when it was already a known problem and when Naga was desperate enough to force all of them to become mortal. Furthermore, Mila and Duma held on for over 3000 years before going crazy, though this could have also been due to the two of them perhaps being younger dragons at the time of their banishment. Their actions at least strike me as younger dragons who believes they knew better than their leaders

Edited June 24, 2017 by TheWerdna

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well one, on the gameplay front, when manaketes are actual enemies, they turn up much earlier than you suppose. Chapter 9 in Shadow Dragon, Chapter 11 in Mystery of the Emblem, Chapter 12 in Blazing Blade. FE1 and FE6 features an isolated boss and then steadily introduces them as regular enemies but FE3 throws the player right into it with several chapters filled to the brim with dragons. Only the Tellius games really hold true to dragons appearing in the final act. Wait, actually you fight a lone dragon even earlier in FE3 around Chapter 7 or so, but still, the game's not afraid to throw dozens of them at you around the halfway mark. And yes you might say Marth's army is made up mostly of veterans but there's nothing stopping the same from being true in a new game. It's all a moot point anyway since a story set in that time wouldn't necessarily have to focus on dragons from the start. There could be human conflicts with stakes that effect things. The degradation could secretly be human in origin as they try to discover and control magic without understanding it (or with understanding it and genocidal intent). There's nothing stopping a story being set in that era save a lack of imagination. The humans are only primitive compared to the dragons, and personally I'd like to see how high tech their advanced civilization was. Even taking them to be primitive on a human standard, the word is very loose. It could be like Grandbell was Rome (with the whole republic it had going on) and the lands in Archanea were like the Vandals. Comparatively primitive but still perfectly capable of doing all the things kingdoms in Fire Emblem does.

We have absolutely no metric to say how easy or difficult things like crafting legendary weapons and forging blood pacts is compared to allowing crops to grow. For all we know Mila's blessing could have just been a good irrigation plan carried out by magic. We also don't know what percentage of time she spent in dragon form vs human form. Celica was able to recognize her large dragon corpse as her immediately which means she doesn't spend so much time in human form for it to be an unrecognizable facet of her.

Oh, also I should add that Tiki was feared to have the power to destroy the world even as a manakete. So that's a pretty definite indicator that the power discrepancy, if there is one, is small enough to be negligible with sufficiently powerful dragons. Course why she doesn't use any of that alleged power when she's fully matured in Awakening is another matter >.>

[TheWerdna]

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh, also I should add that Tiki was feared to have the power to destroy the world even as a manakete. So that's a pretty definite indicator that the power discrepancy, if there is one, is small enough to be negligible with sufficiently powerful dragons. Course why she doesn't use any of that alleged power when she's fully matured in Awakening is another matter >.>

If degeneration is indeed caused be dragons' power, perhaps Tiki is aware that using her power would risk driving herself crazy?

[omegaxis1]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well one, on the gameplay front, when manaketes are actual enemies, they turn up much earlier than you suppose. Chapter 9 in Shadow Dragon, Chapter 11 in Mystery of the Emblem, Chapter 12 in Blazing Blade. FE1 and FE6 features an isolated boss and then steadily introduces them as regular enemies but FE3 throws the player right into it with several chapters filled to the brim with dragons. Only the Tellius games really hold true to dragons appearing in the final act. Wait, actually you fight a lone dragon even earlier in FE3 around Chapter 7 or so, but still, the game's not afraid to throw dozens of them at you around the halfway mark. And yes you might say Marth's army is made up mostly of veterans but there's nothing stopping the same from being true in a new game. It's all a moot point anyway since a story set in that time wouldn't necessarily have to focus on dragons from the start. There could be human conflicts with stakes that effect things. The degradation could secretly be human in origin as they try to discover and control magic without understanding it (or with understanding it and genocidal intent). There's nothing stopping a story being set in that era save a lack of imagination. The humans are only primitive compared to the dragons, and personally I'd like to see how high tech their advanced civilization was. Even taking them to be primitive on a human standard, the word is very loose. It could be like Grandbell was Rome (with the whole republic it had going on) and the lands in Archanea were like the Vandals. Comparatively primitive but still perfectly capable of doing all the things kingdoms in Fire Emblem does.

We have absolutely no metric to say how easy or difficult things like crafting legendary weapons and forging blood pacts is compared to allowing crops to grow. For all we know Mila's blessing could have just been a good irrigation plan carried out by magic. We also don't know what percentage of time she spent in dragon form vs human form. Celica was able to recognize her large dragon corpse as her immediately which means she doesn't spend so much time in human form for it to be an unrecognizable facet of her.

Oh, also I should add that Tiki was feared to have the power to destroy the world even as a manakete. So that's a pretty definite indicator that the power discrepancy, if there is one, is small enough to be negligible with sufficiently powerful dragons. Course why she doesn't use any of that alleged power when she's fully matured in Awakening is another matter >.>

But in those chapters, you've actually by then amassed enough power to actually combat them. But the game you're talking about would more than likely have dragons fighting you as early as chapter 1 or the prologue, but dragons cannot be that easy to kill, as thats insulting to dragons. And FE3/12 throws chapters filled with dragons because its the last chapters and those chapters are extremely difficult. I once speculated that humans might have planted a curse on dragons to cause degeneration, but unlikely. Reason being is that magic is equal to technology. Dragons have the magical energy and power to command such magic/technology, and would essentially be far too powerful for any newly come human in Archanea to be able to curse. A little joke theory I had was that the Scouring in FE6 actually transferred into the distortions of time and space and caused the dramatical shift in energy in Archanea and caused them to have that. But like I said, joke theory. 

Based on Echoes, it seems like Naga had already foreseen that Dragons would one day grow insane. 

It'd be one thing to say that the crops grew in one village, but she was filling the land for half the ENTIRE continent. Add in how she also is regarded to restore the dead to life, that kind of power is immense. I even considered the idea that Mila might have actually taken part of the Jugdral's Miracle of Darna and was actually the one that forged the Valkyrie Staff given to Blaggi. But that's unlikely as she was exiled before the Miracle occurred. Also, Mila's powers being spread throughout half the continent for so many years and being in dragon form is further questionable on how she was not driven insane, since its the dragon power in her that causes degeneration.

Tiki was feared to degenerate from her vast dragon powers. If she used her dragon powers, and was too immature, she'd destroy everything. The Shield of Seals and her incredibly long sleep was to keep her degeneration under check. But beyond that, she showed no displays of power outside of dragon form. 

3 hours ago, TheWerdna said:

I would argue that it was most likely due to their vast power, considering their solution to the problem was to become Manaketes and seal away their power in dragonstones. Also explains evidence we have in Awakening in the form of Nah that suggests that when entering dragon form, they become more feral and animalistic. Which would make sense in this regard: as tapping into that power would cause them to to grow a bit more feral. So it may very well be that dragons were simply so powerful that long term their minds could not handle their own power.

That's what I said. I even mentioned that's why Wyverns, aka the Flying Tribe, might have ended up avoiding extinction in the end, as they didn't hold as much power as the other Tribes, hence why the degeneration didn't affect them too greatly. Yes they devolved into beasts, but they might not have fully lost the capacity to breed. 

3 hours ago, TheWerdna said:

It didn't even have to be a thing due to choice. I mean, when your entire species is functionally immortal (only dying due to outside causes), overpopulation could be a big problem. Thus they could just naturally have had a very low birthrate to begin with, where its very hard for dragons to conceive children, thus ensuring a balance between their low rate of death (which would only happen due to violence or perhaps rarely disease). My best guess to explain Nowi's existence would be that while full degeneration results in infertility, the dragons who became manaketes early enough in their degeneration could still have children, just perhaps at an ever more reduced rate than before

I'm gonna guess that the infertility didn't go away soon. It just took a long time for the infertility rate to weaken. Personally, Nowi's existence is sort of a retcon in itself, since if she didn't exist, Tiki would remain as the youngest living Manakete, and would confirm that no dragons could breed, but now we know that they managed to somehow. 

3 hours ago, TheWerdna said:

And when I say long term, I really mean long term. Evidence from Echoes suggests that degeneration was actually a very long process, given that Duma was banished and he and Mila arrived in Valentia at least 1600 years (almost certainly longer, as that was just when the accords were made) prior to the war between the Divine and Earth tribes. Given Naga gave him Falchion incase they went crazy, it seems like degeneration was a thing that at least innitally progressed very very very slowly, taking centuries if not millennia to fully run its course. I mean, we have at least 1600 years between a time when it was already a known problem and when Naga was desperate enough to force all of them to become mortal. Furthermore, Mila and Duma held on for over 3000 years before going crazy, though this could have also been due to the two of them perhaps being younger dragons at the time of their banishment. Their actions at least strike me as younger dragons who believes they knew better than their leaders

I don't understand WHY they never went insane earlier though. It just strikes me as odd because given that they still have a large amount of magical power inside them, and they might never have taken Manakete form, how is it that they never grew insane until nearly three millennia later? If anything, IS is actually making less sense of the degeneration thing. 

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

But in those chapters, you've actually by then amassed enough power to actually combat them. But the game you're talking about would more than likely have dragons fighting you as early as chapter 1 or the prologue, but dragons cannot be that easy to kill, as thats insulting to dragons. And FE3/12 throws chapters filled with dragons because its the last chapters and those chapters are extremely difficult. I once speculated that humans might have planted a curse on dragons to cause degeneration, but unlikely. Reason being is that magic is equal to technology. Dragons have the magical energy and power to command such magic/technology, and would essentially be far too powerful for any newly come human in Archanea to be able to curse. A little joke theory I had was that the Scouring in FE6 actually transferred into the distortions of time and space and caused the dramatical shift in energy in Archanea and caused them to have that. But like I said, joke theory. 

Based on Echoes, it seems like Naga had already foreseen that Dragons would one day grow insane. 

It'd be one thing to say that the crops grew in one village, but she was filling the land for half the ENTIRE continent. Add in how she also is regarded to restore the dead to life, that kind of power is immense. I even considered the idea that Mila might have actually taken part of the Jugdral's Miracle of Darna and was actually the one that forged the Valkyrie Staff given to Blaggi. But that's unlikely as she was exiled before the Miracle occurred. Also, Mila's powers being spread throughout half the continent for so many years and being in dragon form is further questionable on how she was not driven insane, since its the dragon power in her that causes degeneration.

Tiki was feared to degenerate from her vast dragon powers. If she used her dragon powers, and was too immature, she'd destroy everything. The Shield of Seals and her incredibly long sleep was to keep her degeneration under check. But beyond that, she showed no displays of power outside of dragon form. 

That's what I said. I even mentioned that's why Wyverns, aka the Flying Tribe, might have ended up avoiding extinction in the end, as they didn't hold as much power as the other Tribes, hence why the degeneration didn't affect them too greatly. Yes they devolved into beasts, but they might not have fully lost the capacity to breed. 

I'm gonna guess that the infertility didn't go away soon. It just took a long time for the infertility rate to weaken. Personally, Nowi's existence is sort of a retcon in itself, since if she didn't exist, Tiki would remain as the youngest living Manakete, and would confirm that no dragons could breed, but now we know that they managed to somehow. 

I don't understand WHY they never went insane earlier though. It just strikes me as odd because given that they still have a large amount of magical power inside them, and they might never have taken Manakete form, how is it that they never grew insane until nearly three millennia later? If anything, IS is actually making less sense of the degeneration thing. 

There's absolutely no reason why a game set during the age of dragons would require the player to be fighting dragons on mass from chapter 1. There can be human plot with human enemies with the degeneration making up the larger plot, pretty much like how it's been played in every game heavily featuring manaketes so far. You also seem to miss my point about FE3/12. It doesn't throw dozens of dragons at you in the last chapters. It throws them at you before the half way point.

Also reviving the dead seemingly isn't all that difficult. Milan isn't the only one shown capable of doing it. As you noted the Valkyrie staff exists which would have to have been made by a manakete. Likewise the Aum staff exists which, since its a staff, must have been crafted post degeneration. At best was made by Gotoh (a manakete who didn't even have a dragon stone) at worst a human could have crafted it. Additionally Mila is in the same sort of astral form as Naga when she revives Celica.

[omegaxis1]

33 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There's absolutely no reason why a game set during the age of dragons would require the player to be fighting dragons on mass from chapter 1. There can be human plot with human enemies with the degeneration making up the larger plot, pretty much like how it's been played in every game heavily featuring manaketes so far. You also seem to miss my point about FE3/12. It doesn't throw dozens of dragons at you in the last chapters. It throws them at you before the half way point.

If you mean things like the Graveyard of the Fire Dragons and such where you go to Anri's Way, its still a point in the story where the army would have amassed enough power to fight the dragons. And what you said about how there can be more human plot and enemies, very unlikely. Remember that humans were just beginning to flourish and the land was still dominated by dragons. Then the Earth Dragons went mad and drove humans to near extinction. There's no way we can have a story based on the dragon war with a human lord, as in the end, its the Divine Dragons and Naga that fought in the war and ultimately sealed the Earth Dragons away. 

36 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Also reviving the dead seemingly isn't all that difficult. Milan isn't the only one shown capable of doing it. As you noted the Valkyrie staff exists which would have to have been made by a manakete. Likewise the Aum staff exists which, since its a staff, must have been crafted post degeneration. At best was made by Gotoh (a manakete who didn't even have a dragon stone) at worst a human could have crafted it. Additionally Mila is in the same sort of astral form as Naga when she revives Celica.

The Valkyrie Staff, Aum Staff, and such are powerful sacred objects of great power. Bringing the dead back to life IS actually a great feat, as those cases the player can only perform it like once. The Valkyrie Staff and Aum Staff can only be used once and then breaks. Storywise it shows it only works once as well. Mila's case is that she can perform it multiples when she was still alive. 

As for when she appeared, that was more her spirit arriving before she fully passed on I believe. Her spirit was binding Falchion so that it couldn't be used against her brother. Naga's case more or less indicates she no longer has a physical form anymore, but is alive.

[Armagon]

So i kinda lost track of what had happened here but i recall that there was some debate about whether or not Mila was a Manakete and i think she is.

Mila is holding something that is likely a Dragonstone. That sphere glows in her fight with Rudolf, so it clearly contains her powers. So, if she is a Manakete, then that means she is just that powerful to have great amounts of power, even with her powers sealed within a Dragonstone.

[omegaxis1]

That's an apple.

[Armagon]

35 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

That's an apple.

I severely doubt that. That thing glows a green light and expels a force that's strong enough to blow away everyone in that room, except for Rudolf (and Mila, as she's holding it). 

That, and its too big to be an apple. The shape doesn't match an apple's shape either.

Edit: the image is blurry for some reason, so i'll just link directly to the Wiki: https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/f/f4/Mila_(Trailer_Still).png/revision/latest?cb=20170122052123

Edited June 25, 2017 by Armagon

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Armagon said:

I severely doubt that. That thing glows a green light and expels a force that's strong enough to blow away everyone in that room, except for Rudolf (and Mila, as she's holding it). 

That, and its too big to be an apple. The shape doesn't match an apple's shape either.

No, it really actually is an apple. She just used her magic to make it turn into a blast of energy. Cause you know, magic. 

[Armagon]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

No, it really actually is an apple. She just used her magic to make it turn into a blast of energy. Cause you know, magic. 

The shape doesn't match though, as in the image, it's shown to be perfectly round. Apples are not perfectly round.

[Dragrath]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

No, it really actually is an apple. She just used her magic to make it turn into a blast of energy. Cause you know, magic. 

Yeah it even has a stem sticking out towards her right. I agree with you that that is 100% an apple or apple like fruit.

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

The shape doesn't match though, as in the image, it's shown to be perfectly round. Apples are not perfectly round.

It does seem round, but if you look closely at it, the stem is there. Plus, Dragonstones for Divine Dragons aren't red. That's for the Fire Dragons.

[Dragrath]

Yeah as Omegaxis said you can clearly see a stem pointing away from Mila toward the observer. There is even the inward slope towards the stem that matches an apple exactly suggesting  that it is indeed an apple.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Dragrath said:

Yeah as Omegaxis said you can clearly see a stem pointing away from Mila toward the observer. There is even the inward slope towards the stem that matches an apple exactly suggesting  that it is indeed an apple.

I cannot tell if you're serious or just messing with me.

[Armagon]

7 minutes ago, Dragrath said:

Yeah it even has a stem sticking out towards her right. I agree with you that that is 100% an apple or apple like fruit.

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It does seem round, but if you look closely at it, the stem is there.

Except there is no stem

It's perfectly round, no stem is visible. (Shoutout to Linkmstr btw)

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Plus, Dragonstones for Divine Dragons aren't red. That's for the Fire Dragons.

This is the only thing that conflicts with my theory.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Armagon

[omegaxis1]

HUh, I thought for sure one moment there was a stem there. Weird.