(spoilers) Thoughts on the game from those who are playing it?

[Pikappa93]

2 minutes ago, CompteSecours said:

For example, i don't really see the difference between Tobin ( Archer ), Python and Leon.

Same with Kamui and Saber, they have the same stats lol.

Since growth are very low and promoting gives you base stats, a lot of characters end up the same.

Oh, now I got it. Yes, characters of the same class often end up being very similar, what differentiate them a bit is RNG in level ups.

[Armagon]

Alright, time to get started

20 hours ago, Pikappa93 said:

even if I took the time to grind so that every character was promoted.

Did you ever feel grinding was tedious? When i played Gaiden, i felt that grinding was tedious but i want to put the blame of that on the fact that animations were unskippable. Thanks to skippable animations now, is grinding in Echoes tedious?

20 hours ago, Pikappa93 said:

I think the idea to associate skills with weapons is very good, but it needs to be refined. I often dealt more damage by not using them since they cannot double (I think this is also because they cost HP and are no longer RNG-controlled).

If a refined version of Echoes' skill system were to return for FE16, would you prefer it over the way skills are usually handled? And despite the fact that you didn't use them that much, did you feel they were more strategically viable since you can use them whenever you want (provided the corresponding weapon is equipped), as opposed to previous games where it's just "flip a coin and hope Luna activates"?

 

20 hours ago, Pikappa93 said:

Map design is the most criticized aspect and it's totally understandable. I'm personally ok with them, apart from a few ones that I really cannot defend.

I'm guessing those undefendable ones are the desert maps. Did they at least make desert maps more bearable or is it still "everyone but fliers can only move one space"?

20 hours ago, Pikappa93 said:

Enemies are not always easy to avoid though, so that might become a little bit annoying eventually.

Does that mean like, ambush spawns or is it more of just them being in the way and you're only way past is by fighting them?

 

20 hours ago, Pikappa93 said:

Now, about Chapter 6. The good thing is that you're finally able to control both parties as a single army and switch between Alm and Celica as the leader. For the rest, it's kind of a missed opportunity. There's no actual story in it, so it's not even a real "chapter", just new areas you can visit. It's just three more boat maps (the last one also features reinforcements by the way), a village and a massive dungeon. It's really hard, I had to go back grinding because enemies were way stronger than my units (and even after that I had a hard time). The dungeon is 10 floors long without saving points, so if Alm or Celica dies... well, I feel sorry for you (I suppose that's part of the difficulty?). Postgame boss is ridiculously strong and bulky, it can ORKO even units with maxed stats if you're not careful.

Compared to the very few times Fire Emblem has done post-game content (Trial Maps for FE6/9, Creature Campaign for FE8 and the Spotpass maps for FE13), how does Echoes' Ch.6 compare to them?

 

And now for somethings that weren't there:

• How is forging in this game?
• An interesting thing about Echoes is that there are sub-quests. Did you ever do any of them, and if yes, how easy (or hard) are they to complete?
• Is there a way to replay conversations (both Support and Base), Memory Fragments, and Cutscenes?
• On the subject of cutscenes, how did you feel about it? A lot of people have mentioned that they don't look as good as FE13/14's.
• How hard is the game compared to the rest of the series?

And finally

• What would you rate the game and would you recommend it, especially to someone who hasn't played Gaiden?

Edited April 18, 2017 by Armagon

[Pikappa93]

39 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Did you ever feel grinding was tedious? When i played Gaiden, i felt that grinding was tedious but i want to put the blame of that on the fact that animations were unskippable. Thanks to skippable animations now, is grinding in Echoes tedious?

It depends on what you expect. Animations are skippable the same way they are in Awakening and Fates, making the whole process quite fast and dungeons made grinding a little more enjoyable to me. It still requires a bit of patience though, especially when your units are on higher levels.

 

43 minutes ago, Armagon said:

If a refined version of Echoes' skill system were to return for FE16, would you prefer it over the way skills are usually handled? And despite the fact that you didn't use them that much, did you feel they were more strategically viable since you can use them whenever you want (provided the corresponding weapon is equipped), as opposed to previous games where it's just "flip a coin and hope Luna activates"?

I guess both systems have their pros and cons. I suppose that instead of HP cost (which is a Gaiden exclusive mechanic after all) they could give skills a limited use (let's say, you can use Luna every 2 or 3 turns - just an example without too much thought) or having them activate after a certain number of actions like in Heroes. And being able to double attack, that way weapon skills would be useful without breaking the game, imo.
As for being more strategically viable, I'd say yes. You actually have to think which weapons could fit each character best also taking skills into consideration without relying too much on luck.
However, if they'd go the classic way with RNG-based skills in FE16, I would totally be ok anyway.

 

52 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I'm guessing those undefendable ones are the desert maps. Did they at least make desert maps more bearable or is it still "everyone but fliers can only move one space"?

Yes, some desert maps and the one with a river, a single bridge and an unnecessary amount of open space (which is used too many times, btw). Maps are exactly the same as Gaiden with no changes at all. I can see why they did it, but I also understand the criticism.
Despite this, map design didn't prevent me to enjoy the game at all. Quite the contrary actually, it was kind of fun to see how faithful they were to the original (I know most people will disagree with me on this).
 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Does that mean like, ambush spawns or is it more of just them being in the way and you're only way past is by fighting them?

You can skip enemies by running past them, but especially in later dungeons that's not always easy because you have to predict which direction they'll take by following you. If you're lucky, you can pass through them without being spotted. Some enemies are mandatory to access certain areas though. Anyway, they respawn everytime you re-enter an area, as well as jars and woodboxes containing food and money.

 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Compared to the very few times Fire Emblem has done post-game content (Trial Maps for FE6/9, Creature Campaign for FE8 and the Spotpass maps for FE13), how does Echoes' Ch.6 compare to them?

I think Awakening has the most solid longevity out of the ones you mentioned (counting also DLCs and SpotPass maps). Echoes Chapter 6 will require a decent amount of hours because it's tough, but the chapter itself is not very long (3 boat maps, a village and a dungeon). The dungeon is huge though, 10 floors and a very hard final map. But probably you'll spend most of the time grinding because you won't stand a chance against Chapter 6 enemies otherwise, they have very high stats. It certainly succeeds in providing an actual challenge (and I wasn't even playing on Hard mode) and that's what postgame stuff should do.

 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

How is forging in this game?

Forging is better than it was in Fates imo. It can makes weapons stronger with higher stats or turn them into better kind of weapons (such as Iron Sword to Silver Sword). Dark Swords can be forged into Brave Swords and I would recommend that since they have an insane crit rate. You'll need silver marks to forge weapons and sometimes also golden marks for strongers weapons.
The forging system is pretty decent overall, the only flaw is that it's not alway easy to get money, especially during postgame (that's why I'm planning to buy the money DLC).

 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

An interesting thing about Echoes is that there are sub-quests. Did you ever do any of them, and if yes, how easy (or hard) are they to complete?

Nope, I didn't. Simply because I can't understand Japanese.

 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Is there a way to replay conversations (both Support and Base), Memory Fragments, and Cutscenes?

Sure. You can replay Supports, Memory Fragments and Cutscenes whenever you want. Base conversations are also available during postgame, but I don't know if there's a way to rewatch the older ones (probably not).

 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

On the subject of cutscenes, how did you feel about it? A lot of people have mentioned that they don't look as good as FE13/14's.

The animation is undoubtedly inferior to that of Awakening and Fates. However, that does not mean it's bad, I didn't find cutscenes to be that terrible as some people claimed. There is one in particular that I loved and was very well done in my opinion...

Spoiler

The reunion between Alm and Celica at the end of Chapter 2. One of the best things the franchise has to offer.

 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

How hard is the game compared to the rest of the series?

I think it's best to compare it to other titles in which you're allowed to grind, so... taking FE8, FE13 and FE14 BR/REV into consideration, I'd say Echoes is the hardest one because of some exclusive elements such as HP draining magic (and skills), 1-5 range Archers, massive terrain bonuses, etc. I think it's also harder than the original Gaiden because of some nerfs to certain items and spells.

 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

What would you rate the game and would you recommend it, especially to someone who hasn't played Gaiden?

I'm not that good at giving ratings and don't really like doing it because they can mean different things for different people.
As for recommending it, that's an interesting question. I'd certainly recommend it to any fan of the series, even those who didn't like or play Gaiden should give it a try. For more casual players, I honestly don't know. I would probably recommend it once they'll have played at least another FE title (preferably Sacred Stones or Awakening, which are the most beginner-friendly), I don't think Gaiden/Echoes is a good starting point since it's very weird and wouldn't give a correct impression of the series as a whole (there's a reason it's considered the black sheep of the series).

[Tolvir]

17 hours ago, Pikappa93 said:

You can skip enemies by running past them, but especially in later dungeons that's not always easy because you have to predict which direction they'll take by following you. If you're lucky, you can pass through them without being spotted. Some enemies are mandatory to access certain areas though. Anyway, they respawn everytime you re-enter an area, as well as jars and woodboxes containing food and money.

 

I think Awakening has the most solid longevity out of the ones you mentioned (counting also DLCs and SpotPass maps). Echoes Chapter 6 will require a decent amount of hours because it's tough, but the chapter itself is not very long (3 boat maps, a village and a dungeon). The dungeon is huge though, 10 floors and a very hard final map. But probably you'll spend most of the time grinding because you won't stand a chance against Chapter 6 enemies otherwise, they have very high stats. It certainly succeeds in providing an actual challenge (and I wasn't even playing on Hard mode) and that's what postgame stuff should do.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The reunion between Alm and Celica at the end of Chapter 2. One of the best things the franchise has to offer.

 

How many enemies are there on average in one of those groups in a dungeon?

How much exploration is there for these dungeons? Are there a lot of chests and items to find in them? And where there any more items to be found in the Chapter 6 dungeon?

Edited April 19, 2017 by Tolvir

[Thane]

Holy shit, Tobin's level up quote when he only gets one stat caught me by surprise. I started laughing out loud.

So far the beginning of this game is pretty neat. A very cheesy prologue, but that much was obvious from the first trailer.

Edit: first level up with Faye gave me a +1 Res. Those 3% growths are coming in handy already!

Edited April 19, 2017 by Thane

[Pikappa93]

4 hours ago, Tolvir said:

How many enemies are there on average in one of those groups in a dungeon?

How much exploration is there for these dungeons? Are there a lot of chests and items to find in them? And where there any more items to be found in the Chapter 6 dungeon?

The number of enemies varies, really. In the first dungeon they're like 2-3 per group, but in later dungeons this number increases and in addiction to that nearby enemies can show up in battle too (so you can have battle against 10-15 enemies sometimes).

The exploration was very well done, imo. There are 1-2 chests per dungeon (number can increase in later dungeons) with most valuable items like weapons. Food is found in jars and woodboxes and there are plenty of them. And yes, the postgame dungeon has A LOT of valuable items.

4 hours ago, Thane said:

Edit: first level up with Faye gave me a +1 Res. Those 3% growths are coming in handy already!

I got a +1 Res on Tatiana but then I had to reset, my usual luck.

[Nimue]

So far I'm really enjoying it. I've played for about 4 hours on Hard mode. I just beat Desaix, but I'm going to try to go back to the dungeons to get Python and Forsyth up to par.

I'm not used to seeing such low growths, but it's not as bad as I thought it would be.

I have Faye as a cleric, Gray as a merc, Kliff as an archer, and Tobin as a mage. Tobin got some really lucky level ups, so he's doing the best as of now, but in all I'm satisfied with the choices I made for all the villagers. 

[Thane]

Lots of things impress me in terms of presentation, but the dungeon controls are downright terrible. Alm and Celica go berserk if you so much as nudge the circle pad while attacking, and the controls are ridiculously floaty.

[B.Leu]

9 minutes ago, Thane said:

Lots of things impress me in terms of presentation, but the dungeon controls are downright terrible. Alm and Celica go berserk if you so much as nudge the circle pad while attacking, and the controls are ridiculously floaty.

That's a funny image.
Must be nightmare to play thought.

[Pikappa93]

2 hours ago, Thane said:

Lots of things impress me in terms of presentation, but the dungeon controls are downright terrible. Alm and Celica go berserk if you so much as nudge the circle pad while attacking, and the controls are ridiculously floaty.

While attacking yes, they're a bit confusing, but I wouldn't call them terrible. I overall enjoyed dungeons a lot. What I found more annoying was that I wasn't always able to skip enemies when I wanted to. Maybe it's just me not being good at it though.

[Thane]

2 hours ago, Pikappa93 said:

While attacking yes, they're a bit confusing, but I wouldn't call them terrible. I overall enjoyed dungeons a lot. What I found more annoying was that I wasn't always able to skip enemies when I wanted to. Maybe it's just me not being good at it though.

It's not exactly easy considering you can barely make a turn while dashing, and the camera is really poor.

[Shikan Raider]

Put 3 hours in, liking it so far. It'll probably take me some time to get used to the lower growth rates, we really got spoiled with those in the last two games. Although Tobin's level up quote we he only gets one increase is hilarious.

What I don't like however is (unless I failed to see it) that you can't save in battles anymore. Even on casual mode the only option is to suspend save. The retreat option does come in handy though, even if you have to wait 3 turns to use it.

[Archeleon]

Couple of questions:

How does individual character inventory work? Are they only able to carry one weapon? Other misc items? Can you have, say, a sword and a shield equiped? Do shields share slot with rings/etc?

How about spells? Do the caster classes have access to all spells the character has learned? If say, I decide to reclass Sonia to Cleric down the line will she retain all her Mage/Sage spells? Do you have to pick a spell loadout before each battle?

The main site lists two types of effects on weaponry: Effects and Learned Skills; Zweihander has an Effect of Crit + 10 and Double Severity, Force-Through and Tiger Flurry as Learned Skills. Are the Effects always active? Or do they only apply when you initiate combat (ala Death Blow in Heroes). Im assuming they are always active and therefore a Zweihander gives a passive +10 crit.

Along the sane lines as above: Looking at the Double Severity skill, it is listed as giving +4 Mt/+10 Hit and an Effect of +30 Crit. Are the first two stats always applied? If so, do they stack with the bonuses gained from Force-Through and Tiger Flurry? (Can you even have all three on with the Zweihander equipped?) Does that mean that a character that has extensive practice with the weapon will gain a total of +11 Mt/+60 Hit when it (and the skills) is equipped? Coming back to the Double Severity Effect, I assume this part of it works like Death Blow in Heroes since you have to activate it, correct? Can you activate multiple skills at once? 

And lastly, how does SP work in this game? 

[Pikappa93]

29 minutes ago, Archeleon said:

How does individual character inventory work? Are they only able to carry one weapon? Other misc items? Can you have, say, a sword and a shield equiped? Do shields share slot with rings/etc?

Just one item, like in Gaiden. Weapons, shields, rings, etc. all share the same slot.

30 minutes ago, Archeleon said:

How about spells? Do the caster classes have access to all spells the character has learned? If say, I decide to reclass Sonia to Cleric down the line will she retain all her Mage/Sage spells? Do you have to pick a spell loadout before each battle?

I don't think so. But I cant' say that for sure since reclassing is not possible for Mages till they release the Villager's Fork (if they release it actually). The spell learnset is predetermined for each character so you don't have to choose it before battle.

33 minutes ago, Archeleon said:

The main site lists two types of effects on weaponry: Effects and Learned Skills; Zweihander has an Effect of Crit + 10 and Double Severity, Force-Through and Tiger Flurry as Learned Skills. Are the Effects always active? Or do they only apply when you initiate combat (ala Death Blow in Heroes). Im assuming they are always active and therefore a Zweihander gives a passive +10 crit.

Weapon effects are always active, skills aren't. You have to choose them before combat and they also cost HP like magic.

35 minutes ago, Archeleon said:

Along the sane lines as above: Looking at the Double Severity skill, it is listed as giving +4 Mt/+10 Hit and an Effect of +30 Crit. Are the first two stats always applied? If so, do they stack with the bonuses gained from Force-Through and Tiger Flurry? (Can you even have all three on with the Zweihander equipped?) Does that mean that a character that has extensive practice with the weapon will gain a total of +11 Mt/+60 Hit when it (and the skills) is equipped? Coming back to the Double Severity Effect, I assume this part of it works like Death Blow in Heroes since you have to activate it, correct? Can you activate multiple skills at once?

You can't activate multiple skills at once, just one at a time. So no, the effects of a skill cannot stack with those of another skill, simply because you can't use them together.

38 minutes ago, Archeleon said:

And lastly, how does SP work in this game?

What do you mean by SP? Like Heroes SP? In that case, that's a Heroes exclusive mechanic. In Echoes characters learn skills by using certain weapons multiple times (which skills depends on the weapon).

[Archeleon]

Thanks for the responses. 

Since you can only have one item equiped does that mean that when resolving combat the game goes back to the default level weaponry when calculating damage while a shield/ring is equipped?

Understood about spells and reclassing, will have to wait.  In regards to spell set, I meant to ask if you have a limit to the spell choices from your learned pool. Faye can learn 6 spells through the Cleric line; does she have access to all of them during combat?

In regards to the bonuses from the active skills: I understand that Double Severity's +30 Crit will only activate on command. Do the +2 Mt/+10 Hit bonuses also only apply when the Double Severity command is used? Or is that given from simply having the skill equipped, and thus passive? 

I asked about SP because the main site lists "SP" (costs/requirements?) as a factor of Command skills in Echoes.I know little else about it.

[Keaton the wise]

This game sounds like a blast and I missed monster units (still even if there are more here, the ones in fe8 were more varied IMO) Wonder how a part of the fanbase will react when they find out there's no waifuing/children. 

[Archeleon]

6 minutes ago, Keaton the wise said:

This game sounds like a blast and I missed monster units (still even if there are more here, the ones in fe8 were more varied IMO) Wonder how a part of the fanbase will react when they find out there's no waifuing/children. 

I, personally, am relieved that such mechanics are being onitted from this game and hope they are omitted in the future, at least in the way that they were used in the last two installments. I looked at it from a eugenic stand point and the characters ended up being reduced to their pure genetic potential. Basing pairings purely off a massive spreadsheet full of calculations about optimization defeated the intended (i pressume) purpose of the feature. 

[BlizzardWolf95]

1 hour ago, Archeleon said:

Understood about spells and reclassing, will have to wait.  In regards to spell set, I meant to ask if you have a limit to the spell choices from your learned pool. Faye can learn 6 spells through the Cleric line; does she have access to all of them during combat?

Once a character learns a spell, they can use it whenever they please, as long as they're in that class. Mages cannot use Cleric spells and vice-versa.

1 hour ago, Archeleon said:

Since you can only have one item equiped does that mean that when resolving combat the game goes back to the default level weaponry when calculating damage while a shield/ring is equipped?

If you have a shield/ring equipped, the unit defaults to the basic weapon of that class. Of course, all skills associated with the weapon/shield are removed as well once it's replaced in the unit's inventory.

1 hour ago, Archeleon said:

I asked about SP because the main site lists "SP" (costs/requirements?) as a factor of Command skills in Echoes.I know little else about it.

I haven't seen any mention of SP in-game yet, though I'm only on Ch.3, so I still have more than half the game left...

Edited April 20, 2017 by BlizzardWolf95

[Archeleon]

29 minutes ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

Once a character learns a spell, they can use it whenever they please, as long as they're in that class. Mages cannot use Cleric spells and vice-versa

If you have a shield/ring equipped, the unit defaults to the basic weapon of that class. Of course, all skills associated with the weapon/shield are removed as well once it's replaced in the unit's inventory.

I haven't seen any mention of SP in-game yet, though I'm only on Ch.3, so I still have more than half the game left...

Critical information, so there isn't much use in reclassing characters to learn all their spells if the end class cant use them.

Cool, seems logical. In that case Mage/Clerics are prime candidates for Shields and Rings (primarily). Weapon skills seem mostly clear to me now. Still unsure if Mt/Hit bonuses from skills like Double Severity only apply when the skill is used. I saw a screenshot of a DF Jesse using a Silver Sword with both Duelist's Blow and Crushing Blow equipped and made me wonder if he was getting a total of +7 Mt/ +30 Hit bonuses during combat regardless of whether he used either skill. It kind of made think of weapon skill rank bonuses from prior games. 

[Keaton the wise]

2 hours ago, Archeleon said:

I, personally, am relieved that such mechanics are being onitted from this game and hope they are omitted in the future, at least in the way that they were used in the last two installments. I looked at it from a eugenic stand point and the characters ended up being reduced to their pure genetic potential. Basing pairings purely off a massive spreadsheet full of calculations about optimization defeated the intended (i pressume) purpose of the feature. 

Agreed I preferred when marriage was at the end of the game like in FE7, 8 etc. Hopefully the Switch game won't feature some dumb "mycastle", breaks the inmersion IMO Also, dungeons are a welcome addition.