Underrated/Overlooked Fire Emblem Characters?

[Interdimensional Observer]

51 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Chrono Cross, Virtue's Last Reward, someone said Final Fantasy XIII-2, haven't played it but I do know none of the playable cast in the first game are playable in the second. Let's see, what else? Hmm, Sin and Punishment 2, Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, Ace Attorney: Apollo Justice, all the Pokemon games in a fashion but especially the Gen 2 games and White 2/Black 2. Sure some of the old cast do pop up in all those games I mentioned but a Path of Radiance sequel focusing only on Daein would inevitably include the likes of Sothe, Tauroneo and Jill etc anyway so it's not like it was ever going to be a full cast rotation.

The difference is that RD takes place in Tellius in the same dimension and same time period as PoR, and as we've seen from PoR, Tellius isn't that big. I wouldn't mind a microcosmic FE at all, and Thracia 776 did it I shall admit. This isn't like Suikoden or what I hear of Trails in the Sky. 

On Chrono Cross, that game huge roster issues. Namely nobody but Kid, Harle, and Lynx get any development at all really. Chrono Trigger wasn't that much better in this regard, but the characters did get a little development and the much smaller roster made them more charming and memorable than CC's bloated one. Serge and Crono are both silent and samey, except for Serge being special and Crono not. (I just had to get this out of my system.)

As for Pokemon- the only PC is the self-insert trainer. While PCs don't matter in VLR since it's a VN and there are major returning characters.

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The difference is that RD takes place in Tellius in the same dimension and same time period as PoR, and as we've seen from PoR, Tellius isn't that big. I wouldn't mind a microcosmic FE at all, and Thracia 776 did it I shall admit. This isn't like Suikoden or what I hear of Trails in the Sky. 

On Chrono Cross, that game huge roster issues. Namely nobody but Kid, Harle, and Lynx get any development at all really. Chrono Trigger wasn't that much better in this regard, but the characters did get a little development and the much smaller roster made them more charming and memorable than CC's bloated one. Serge and Crono are both silent and samey, except for Serge being special and Crono not. (I just had to get this out of my system.)

As for Pokemon- the only PC is the self-insert trainer. While PCs don't matter in VLR since it's a VN and there are major returning characters.

Oh wow. I forgot about Thracia entirely. I think that in itself is more than enough proof that a Radiant trilogy with Radiant Dawn's Part 1 being a full game was more than possible. Similar to Thracia you'd have some overlap of playable characters (the aforementioned Sothe, Jill, Tauroneo, etc) a load of new characters (Nailah, Pelleas, Fiona, the Dawn Brigade etc), returning villains (Izuka and the senators, possibly the Black Knight depending on how they'd choose to handle him), and some new villains (like Jarod). That's pretty much exactly how Thracia was handled with  Delmud and Sety etc being playable and Travant and Julius making some minor appearances but Veld and Reidrick being center stage. Abandoning the majority of a cast is something a lot of games do, yeah there's usually a reason for it, because it'd just be odd for no one to reappear again, but a game being focused on one particular region (the former enemy's country at that) and focusing on the citizens of that one particular region just like in Thracia, is a sufficient reason in my book. I reckon if they went that route they could even shove Ike into the end to play the Gotoh archtype (just have Sothe trying to contact him repeatedly throughout the story to no avail until he manages to show up in the last chapter).

[Icelerate]

Tauroneo is a very underrated character. 

[Mega Koopa]

FE1 - Boah, he's basically Wendell but with better base stats, Because of the way magic is in FE1 most mages are interchangeable, Boah also has the Weapon level to use warp.

FE2 - Tobin, most people say he sucks but as a mage he gets access to Excalibur which is the best tome in the game because it has 100% hit in a game where the rng run on what people like to call "true miss". Not only that but he gets it at level 6.

FE4 - Midir, he's basically Jamke but on a horse which makes him better. Just give him his brave bow and you're good to go

FE5 - Ralph, he's not bad he's just Othin without his Pugi

FE6 - Cecilia, despite me being HEAVILY bias towards her she's not as useless as people say. Compared to the other troubadour you get, Cecilia has better magic in both bases and growths. She comes with A rank in anima and C rank in staves. For a prepromote, Cecilia's stats are very underwhelming, but for a unit that primarily uses staves her stats are basically irrelevant. The only enemies she'll have trouble fighting are any physical classes with 1-2 range weapons.

FE11 - Maria, She's just Lena with a slightly lower staff rank but without Hammerne. Even though you get both Lena and Wendell earlier, that doesn't make Maria any worse. Once she gets to C rank in staves she's becomes another warper.

FE11 (again) - Rickard, like Clerics, stats on thieves don't matter since they'll almost never be in combat. Most people ignore Rickard just because Julian have better stats. 

Just because x > y doesn't make y bad.

FE12 - Darros, I don't know if he's considered underrated but I still hardly see people use him. Darros has godly base stats and is among one of the best prepromotes in the game along with Etzel, Minerva and Sirius. He comes with B rank in axes, 40+ HP, 15 speed and 13 defense, not to mention he can be reclassed to Hero for better bases and reclassed back into a Berserker once he starts to caps his stats. 

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Mega Koopa X said:

FE1 - Boah, he's basically Wendell but with better base stats, Because of the way magic is in FE1 most mages are interchangeable, Boah also has the Weapon level to use warp.

FE2 - Tobin, most people say he sucks but as a mage he gets access to Excalibur which is the best tome in the game because it has 100% hit in a game where the rng run on what people like to call "true miss". Not only that but he gets it at level 6.

FE4 - Midir, he's basically Jamke but on a horse which makes him better. Just give him his brave bow and you're good to go

FE5 - Ralph, he's not bad he's just Othin without his Pugi

FE6 - Cecilia, despite me being HEAVILY bias towards her she's not as useless as people say. Compared to the other troubadour you get, Cecilia has better magic in both bases and growths. She comes with A rank in anima and C rank in staves. For a prepromote, Cecilia's stats are very underwhelming, but for a unit that primarily uses staves her stats are basically irrelevant. The only enemies she'll have trouble fighting are any physical classes with 1-2 range weapons.

FE11 - Maria, She's just Lena with a slightly lower staff rank but without Hammerne. Even though you get both Lena and Wendell earlier, that doesn't make Maria any worse. Once she gets to C rank in staves she's becomes another warper.

FE11 (again) - Rickard, like Clerics, stats on thieves don't matter since they'll almost never be in combat. Most people ignore Rickard just because Julian have better stats. 

Just because x > y doesn't make y bad.

FE12 - Darros, I don't know if he's considered underrated but I still hardly see people use him. Darros has godly base stats and is among one of the best prepromotes in the game along with Etzel, Minerva and Sirius. He comes with B rank in axes, 40+ HP, 15 speed and 13 defense, not to mention he can be reclassed to Hero for better bases and reclassed back into a Berserker once he starts to caps his stats. 

Personally I ignore both Julian and Rickard. Marth's my most valuable thief in Shadow Dragon!

[Slumber]

6 hours ago, Mega Koopa X said:

FE5 - Ralph, he's not bad he's just Othin without his Pugi

I agree Ralph is underrated, but let's not oversell him or undersell Othin. Othin, even without Pugi, has... basically everything going for him. Ralph's not even Halvan. Ralph is nice because he's a solid premmie and he has pretty respectable weapon ranks, but he's got pretty average bases, downright bad growths, no skills, and 1 PCC. He'll struggle to cap anything, which kind of just makes him an average unit all around, with absolutely nothing worth noting(The point of his character).

Every other Hero you get is miles ahead of him, especially Othin.

Basically, Ralph is your "Oh crap, I used Othin, Halvan and Machyua too much and they became fatigued" or "Oh crap, I didn't use Othin, Halvan or Machyua enough, so I need a substitute right now" unit. He'll get the job done, but he doesn't rise above doing that like literally everyone else in his class.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Slumber

[Mega Koopa]

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

Personally I ignore both Julian and Rickard. Marth's my most valuable thief in Shadow Dragon!

Yeah, that's fair. Marth is forced deployed on every map anyways so that kinda obsoletes them both.

 

9 hours ago, Slumber said:

I agree Ralph is underrated, but let's not oversell him or undersell Othin. Othin, even without Pugi, has... basically everything going for him. Ralph's not even Halvan. Ralph is nice because he's a solid premmie and he has pretty respectable weapon ranks, but he's got pretty average bases, downright bad growths, no skills, and 1 PCC. He'll struggle to cap anything, which kind of just makes him an average unit all around, with absolutely nothing worth noting(The point of his character).

Every other Hero you get is miles ahead of him, especially Othin.

Basically, Ralph is your "Oh crap, I used Othin, Halvan and Machyua too much and they became fatigued" or "Oh crap, I didn't use Othin, Halvan or Machyua enough, so I need a substitute right now" unit. He'll get the job done, but he doesn't rise above doing that like literally everyone else in his class.

That's also fair, maybe saying "Othin without a Pugi" was giving him too much credit. He's not a bad unit but I agree that there are better Heroes. 

[X-Naut]

FE7: Rath. People ignore him because of his late join time and bows being bad in this game, but you get a few great bows (Brave, Killer) right before he joins, he has the rank to use them and he has a horse to go places.

FE8: Garcia. 20% Speed growth may suck, but base 7 is sufficient to double early Soldiers/Knights and to avoid doubles until the route split starts, and he deals good damage with axes.

[Slumber]

26 minutes ago, X-Naut said:

FE7: Rath. People ignore him because of his late join time and bows being bad in this game, but you get a few great bows (Brave, Killer) right before he joins, he has the rank to use them and he has a horse to go places.

FE8: Garcia. 20% Speed growth may suck, but base 7 is sufficient to double early Soldiers/Knights and to avoid doubles until the route split starts, and he deals good damage with axes.

Do people really underrate/overlook Rath? Most people I see seem to acknowledge him as the only primary bow unit worth using. Even usually above Louise, a prepromote who comes with an A rank support with one of the most useful units in the game. 

If people are gone use a bow, it usually comes down to Rath and Geitz. 

Generally his main complaint is that he's underleveled. Which absolutely is a valid reason to not use him in certain runs, but I don't think people not doing strict turn/efficiency runs  overlook him. 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Slumber

[UNLEASH IT]

On 7/28/2017 at 6:41 PM, Slumber said:

From what I've seen, it's ya boy to the left here. He seems to not be as popular of a unit as many others of his ilk.

Why is Homer overlooked?

1.) He's the second in a long string of underleveled, borderline uberunits that you get in T776's mid game. The first being Mareeta, who has too many useful skills in her arsenal to count(Really she has 2, which is a lot for this game). His recruitment is also a bit tricky, so while you WILL get Mareeta, Homer's not a guarantee. Linoan is also automatic, and Sleuf's can't be permanently fucked like Homer's can. Sara's is a bit tricky, but she at least is an enemy on the map of one route, so you can suss out her recruitment, and the other is a basic visit deal. The only one that comes close is Miranda, but there's a chance you won't even get the opportunity to recruit her. But overall, Miranda, Sara, Mareeta, Sleuf, and Linoan to a lesser extent, all generally get more attention than Homer.

2.) He has competition from two major units. Asvel's a solid early-game mage who comes with his own prf weapon that's nearly as good as the Pugi and the Adept skill. Ced's one of the two Gotohs you get, and he comes with a Holy weapon. A proper Genealogy holy weapon. The might is nerfed from 30, but it still has 20/20+(Actually buffed from Genealogy, where it was 20/10) on Speed and Skill. In a game where stats max out at 20 across the board and Ced probably will hit those two.

So how can Homer be overlooked?

Scrolls+Paragon

1.) The secret to getting most of the mid-game Ests to work usually relies on promoting them late enough to where they'll hit the caps they're gonna hit, but early enough to where their promotion gains will catch them up to the units you're already using. Homer is one of the few units in the whole game who can make relative advantage of going 20/20, due to the insane speed at which he'll grow levels. Sara, potentially the last in the line of FE5 Ests, also has Paragon. But her being stafflocked until promotion slows her leveling capacity down significantly. To add to this, outside of Mareeta, most of your units up until Homer will likely be coming along, having made use they need of the scrolls in your inventory. Combined with his very high leveling rate, it makes Homer a perfect unit to hold on to them until further notice. Added on top of his already very high growth rates.

2.) On his own, Homer will absolutely beat Asvel and Ced in raw stats, hitting caps in speed, skill, luck and magic very quickly(He'll probably hit 20 in luck and speed even before promotion), higher defenses and a good deal more HP on the both of them. On top of this, he has a PCC of 5, effectively giving him a soft Wrath, where Asvel and Ced will only ever have 3. Ced does have 1 Leadership Star and one more Movement Star than Homer. With, just say, one scroll, the very one you get in his recruitment chapter, Homer becomes a Sage tank of death. With the Dain scroll, assuming it stays on him until he hits 20/20, Homer's defense growth skyrockets to 45%, his movement growth nearly triples to 8%, he actually gets a strength growth, while his massive speed growth drops from 70% to 60%, where he'll still cap it at promotion. However, at 20/20, he'll now very likely cap defense, and have a whopping 10 move, while still capping every other stat. With just that one scroll. You could load Dain, Hezul, Baldur and Neir on him for just 10 levels(Which really wouldn't take long at all, and you'd have these scrolls by his recruitment), and he'd be a level 15 unpromoted mage with 35 HP, an extra 3 strength, 1 less luck, an extra 4 defense, 1 more con, and 1 more move. Leveling him to 20/20 with no more scrolls would put him at 52 HP, 15 defense, 9 move, 10 con and all the caps he naturally caps still capped. Still VERY tanky.

He'd still face stiff competition from Ced, due to Ced's Forseti, but he'd be head and shoulders above Asbel, who likely is running out, or has run out of Grafcalibur by mid-to-end game, depending on how often it sees use.

If you promote Asbel by chapter 8 (which you should if you want to build up his staff rank), he'll rarely need grafcalibur to kill anything aside from bosses in this game. Also Sarah isn't stafflocked as an unpromoted unit.

And stats matter very little in a game where most non-boss enemies have very low stats.

Though he's still a good unit, Homer is probably the worst overall Sage because he lacks the offensive power that Ced and Asbel have and doesn't have the utility that Sarah and Linoan provide, even in their unpromoted states.

[Slumber]

7 hours ago, UNLEASH IT said:

If you promote Asbel by chapter 8 (which you should if you want to build up his staff rank), he'll rarely need grafcalibur to kill anything aside from bosses in this game. Also Sarah isn't stafflocked as an unpromoted unit.

And stats matter very little in a game where most non-boss enemies have very low stats.

Though he's still a good unit, Homer is probably the worst overall Sage because he lacks the offensive power that Ced and Asbel have and doesn't have the utility that Sarah and Linoan provide, even in their unpromoted states.

That post was more of a goofy "pls use Homer" post than an actual "Homer's the best, all other sages suck" post. All Sages in T776 are, by and large, amazing units. But Homer's my favorite.

I don't ever need to level Asbel's staff rank like that? The game tosses so many amazing staff bots at you that getting Asbel to promotion and promoting him ASAP has never been a priority to me, especially not so I can start grinding his staff rank. 

I'd rather give Knight Crests to Nanna, Orsin, Fergus, or Karin first, all of who offer more utility or long-term offensive potential sooner than Asbel. Part of the reason I like Homer more is because at about the time I'd consider promoting Asbel, is also around the point Homer shows up. And at that point, I would rather build up Homer, who has better stats than Asbel, and thanks to Paragon, you can get up to promotion within his join chapter. And after that, Homer will continue to gain levels like crazy. Homer also has more potential with Scroll leveling than Asbel, with the Dain Scroll being acquired the same chapter. Homer's 5 PCC makes him a much more effective unit than Asvel with Wind's innate 10% critical boost. Once Grafcalibur runs out and Asbel's no longer being guaranteed crits on double attacks, my reasons for using Asbel above any of the other sages also generally runs out. 

Even with an early promote Asbel early, Homer likely would catch up to him fairly quickly, and the argument goes back to Homer just having better stats, barring potentially a rank or so in staves. And I don't think Sage is a class you should avoid redundancy on. 

As for never matching Linoan and Sara's utility, sure. Them being able to use staves before promotion more or less already makes them amazing utility units. But they'll be slow going. Linoan lacking Paragon and being squishy hurts her a lot, since she will ultimately be a staff bot until promotion. Resire doesn't salvage her bad durability nearly enough to risk having her fighting even weaker opponents. Even with the generous EXP gains from staves, it will be a while for her. Sara gets off a bit easier due to being close to promotion when she joins and having Paragon, but she's also squishy. Squishier than Linoan. And she joins at about the point the game starts throwing mooks with stats higher than 8 at you. So again, she'll be relegated to Staffbot for quite some time before she starts being able to show some versatility. 

But again, these are more my fanboy feelings and not a concrete list of reasons why Homer's the best, or anything. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Slumber

[UNLEASH IT]

6 hours ago, Slumber said:

 I'd rather give Knight Crests to Nanna, Orsin, Fergus, or Karin first, all of who offer more utility or long-term offensive potential sooner than Asbel.

What do they really offer after promoting that they couldn't offer before?

Nanna gains +1 move, a few stat boosts and a sword rank on promotion. She'll still be using her Earth sword to kill things just like before and her staff rank doesn't even go up

Fergus and Karin gain similar boosts to Nanna upon promotion. What they could do before promotion, they can do after it.

Orsin gains swords (which he barely needs) some fairly decent stat boosts and no move upon promoting. So he's basically the same 

As vel gains +5 magic +6 speed (he'll probably cap speed as son as he promotes), +5skill, +4 defence, +1 move, D rank staves and a boost to all his magic levels after promotion. He's like a completely different unit.

And while FE5 throws a lot of good staffers at you, If you don't promote Asbel early, staff responsibility falls solely on Safy and Nanna until chapter 12x. And with the way that fatigue works with staff units in this game, they'll get fatigued very easily, forcing you to use stamina drinks to keep them fit.

[Slumber]

12 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

What do they really offer after promoting that they couldn't offer before?

Nanna gains +1 move, a few stat boosts and a sword rank on promotion. She'll still be using her Earth sword to kill things just like before and her staff rank doesn't even go up

Fergus and Karin gain similar boosts to Nanna upon promotion. What they could do before promotion, they can do after it.

Orsin gains swords (which he barely needs) some fairly decent stat boosts and no move upon promoting. So he's basically the same 

As vel gains +5 magic +6 speed (he'll probably cap speed as son as he promotes), +5skill, +4 defence, +1 move, D rank staves and a boost to all his magic levels after promotion. He's like a completely different unit.

And while FE5 throws a lot of good staffers at you, If you don't promote Asbel early, staff responsibility falls solely on Safy and Nanna until chapter 12x. And with the way that fatigue works with staff units in this game, they'll get fatigued very easily, forcing you to use stamina drinks to keep them fit.

This is all true, but beefier utility units and offensive powerhouses with more room to grow never really hurts when they arguably have more important roles to fill than a third staff user by chapter 12x.

As staff-centric as Thracia is, it doesn't become "The Staff Game" until the mid/late game. By and large you're mostly using staves just to heal in the early game, which isn't that vital to your team prior to the route split. Especially given that Vulneraries heal to full and most bosses carry them. The most important part is being able to Restore status ailments, which Asvel's going to take a while to reach, even with an early promotion. By the time you really NEED Restore, Safy and Nanna will be able to carry you until Tina and Linoan join.

Promoting Asbel early purely to build up his staff rank has, again, never, ever crossed my mind as a high priority.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Slumber

[UNLEASH IT]

Just now, Slumber said:

This is all true, but beefier utility units with more room to grow never really hurts when they arguably have more important roles to fill than a third staff user by chapter 12x.

As staff-centric as Thracia is, it doesn't become "The Staff Game" until the mid/late game. By and large you're mostly using staves just to heal in the early game, which isn't that vital to your team prior to the route split. Especially given that Vulneraries heal to full and most bosses carry them. The most important part is being able to Restore status ailments, which Asvel's going to take a while to reach, even with an early promotion. By the time you really NEED Restore, Safy and Nanna will be able to carry you until Tina and Linoan join.

Can't say I agree with this, since you get your first restore staff with Linoan on chapter 14x (it's one of the bad design choices that fe5 makes). And if Asvel isn't reaching rank C by that time with his early promotion, then neither is Nanna, who will have an even lower staff rank than him.

[Slumber]

Just now, UNLEASH IT said:

Can't say I agree with this, since you get your first restore staff with Linoan on chapter 14x (it's one of the bad design choices that fe5 makes). And if Asvel isn't reaching rank C by that time with his early promotion, then neither is Nanna, who will have an even lower staff rank than him.

Hm. You're right on Linoan being the first Restore. For some reason I thought you got one before chapter 10.

Regardless, Nanna starts high with E. I believe she only needs to Heal 10 times to hit rank D, which should be more than doable by chapter 8. If it IS 10 uses(It might be 20), Nanna may very well reach rank D in the pit with Eyvel, or shortly after. Point is, even with very conservative use, Nanna should still have a lead on Asbel with Staff ranks.

This also compounds with the "What do you need 3 staff users before 12x for?" question. While Nanna is primarily a Healer who eventually grows into more of a frontline unit, Asbel is almost always going to be a much more effective damage dealer than he is going to be a healer. His opportunities to be a staffbot after promotion is going to generally be more limited. His main appeal will be to be able to heal on the frontlines, but Vulneraries are readily available and heal to full. Needing a secondary source of healing on the frontlines really only starts to feel necessary, again, around the route split, when you'll start wanting to use your player turns more offensively. And even then, compared to most of your other frontline units, Asbel's probably the one who is going to need healing as opposed to being the one healing. Dodgetanking's not quite as reliable in the old games if you don't have Holsety or Balmung.

[UNLEASH IT]

2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Hm. You're right on Linoan being the first Restore. For some reason I thought you got one before chapter 10.

Regardless, Nanna starts high with E. I believe she only needs to Heal 10 times to hit rank D, which should be more than doable by chapter 8. If it IS 10 uses(It might be 20), Nanna may very well reach rank D in the pit with Eyvel, or shortly after. Point is, even with very conservative use, Nanna should still have a lead on Asbel with Staff ranks.

This also compounds with the "What do you need 3 staff users before 12x for?" question. While Nanna is primarily a Healer who eventually grows into more of a frontline unit, Asbel is almost always going to be a much more effective damage dealer than he is going to be a healer. His opportunities to be a staffbot after promotion is going to generally be more limited. His main appeal will be to be able to heal on the frontlines, but Vulneraries are readily available and heal to full. Needing a secondary source of healing on the frontlines really only starts to feel necessary, again, around the route split, when you'll start wanting to use your player turns more offensively. And even then, compared to most of your other frontline units, Asbel's probably the one who is going to need healing as opposed to being the one healing. Dodgetanking's not quite as reliable in the old games if you don't have Holsety or Balmung.

It's 50. https://serenesforest.net/thracia-776/miscellaneous/calculations

[Slumber]

 

1 minute ago, UNLEASH IT said:

It's 50. https://serenesforest.net/thracia-776/miscellaneous/calculations

It's 20.

https://serenesforest.net/thracia-776/characters/other-data/

Nanna starts with +30.

[UNLEASH IT]

Just now, Slumber said:

 

It's 20.

https://serenesforest.net/thracia-776/characters/other-data/

Nanna starts with +30.

Which means that Nanna still has to spend 20 turns to reach D rank staves, which Asvel reaches in 1. 

[Slumber]

23 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Which means that Nanna still has to spend 20 turns to reach D rank staves, which Asvel reaches in 1. 

Your usecase for Asvel's staff rank is him promoting by chapter 8.

I'd say it's much, much, much more likely that Nanna heals 20 times(And then some) in between chapter 5 and chapter 8 than it is for Asvel to be promotion ready and competitive for those first Knight Crests.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Slumber

[UNLEASH IT]

Just now, Slumber said:

Your usecase for Asvel's staff rank is him promoting by chapter 8.

I'd say it's much, much, much more likely that Nanna heals 20 times(And then some) in between chapter 5 and chapter 8 than it is for Asvel to be promotion ready and competitive for that first Knight Crest.

Granted. But I still don't see why you'd promote Nanna, Orsin, Fergus and Karin before Asvel when they gain so much less from promotion than Asvel does. 

[Slumber]

12 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Granted. But I still don't see why you'd promote Nanna, Orsin, Fergus and Karin before Asvel when they gain so much less from promotion than Asvel does. 

Orsin because he's basically "the enemy phase unit", so him getting every advantage as early as he can contributes to his already immense strength. The rest because beefier utility is more important for the following few chapters. Karin, specifically, having promoted by chapter 9, and especially 10 is very nice. Her not having to worry about ballistas(At promotion she can reach Ballistas with a javelin without ever coming into range) as much while being able to move freely around the heavily forested, mountainous and rivery map. This extends to later maps like 13 and 14, where having her trained up even more is incredibly helpful.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Slumber

[UNLEASH IT]

Just now, Slumber said:

Orsin because he's basically "the enemy phase unit", so him getting every advantage as early as he can contributes to his already immense strength. The rest because beefier utility is more important for the following few chapters. Karin, specifically, having promoted by chapter 10 is very nice. Her not having to worry about ballistas(At promotion she can reach Ballistas with a javelin without ever coming into range) as much while being able to move freely around the heavily forested, mountainous and rivery map. This extends to later maps like 13 and 14, where having her trained up even more is incredibly helpful.

But you get 4 master crests before chapter 10 so you can promote Asvel first and still promote them. Especially since they're better off promoting a bit later since their promotion bonuses aren't particularly high.

[Slumber]

55 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

But you get 4 master crests before chapter 10 so you can promote Asvel first and still promote them. Especially since they're better off promoting a bit later since their promotion bonuses aren't particularly high.

The thing here is that you're arguing that Asvel would even be competitive for these. Asvel's a great boss killer with Grafcalibur, but for regular use, it's difficult to get him going. As a level 1 Mage with 0 base defense, you have to keep him at a pretty safe distance, and out of harm's way on enemy turns. You also have to regularly be capturing Mages, a bit risk for early game physical units, since there's no way to reliably get a hold of Magic he actually wants until chapter 12(You get no magic aside from Thunder outside of capturing up until this point, which is going to drop Asvel's AS by a noticeable amount, and Fire, the only other magic you're likely to get, isn't much better).

4x has walls, tight rooms and a lot of armor units, which SHOULD make it easy pickings for Asvel, but it all depends on how much you want to start using his Grafcalibur. He can go through it very quickly here, as he'll need to double a lot of the Armor Knights to get them down of his crits don't come out reliably. You can steal some magic here, but Asvel's not going to be doubling anymore with Thunder or Fire. It's also a giant clusterfuck to try to capture a Mage in the tiny room near the end while also fighting off a wave of Armor units and Archers and also recruiting Dalsin.

Chapters 5 and 6 are escape chapters with a lot of physical units where he's not going to be leading the charge. You can go out of your way to take out the Dark Mages near the end, but that's about two/three enemies in the whole stretch where I'd feel comfortable letting Asvel depleting Grafcalibur uses, if you didn't capture any of the Mages previous maps and steal their magic(Even then, I'm not sure any of them have Wind, so Asvel's going to be weighed down quite a bit).

Chapter 7 is one where you can safely plink from the back, but the left side is full of Hand-Axe bandits and a Berserker. It's a risky spot to put Asvel in. Going the right path is easier for him, but you risk putting yourself in a situation where Safy can't safely reach Shiva, and you're more open to Eisenhow's surprisingly tough ambush squad.

Chapter 8 is a relatively safe chapter for Asvel to get a few hits in, but it's a small map, and you have to watch out for Hand-Axe bandits. It's also a map where Asvel's strength as a boss killer can't be utilized.

8x is a nightmare for him, and again, he's not going to want to be on the front lines for this as you rush to rescue Tanya and Dagdar. Gomes is also not really a boss you want him trying to take out with Grafcalibur, since missing a crit on the first hit means Asvel's probably going to get one-shot by Gomes. Asvel's likely not going to have the speed to double him here, so relying on his PCC+Graf crit won't be likely. You'd really need him promoted here to make it work.

Chapter 9 and 10 are large maps with flying units and Ballista that make Asvel risky to use aggressively.

Chapter 11 has nasty choke points with Archers that make it difficult to utilize Asvel. He can definitely get a few kills in, but it's risky.

Chapter 12, when he can start getting access to more Wind and there's enough forest to let him comfortably attack physical units without nearly as much worry, is about when I'd say Asvel starts becoming somebody who you can use with frequency and he'll start being promotion ready.

I don't see him being promotion ready by chapter 8 without serious babying and completely using up Grafcalibur(Even then, the I'm not sure if the 20 or so kills he'd get from it would get him completely to promotion). I'm not saying it's impossible but I really don't think the promotion gains and an extra staff user at chapter 8 is really THAT appealing that you use up the one thing that makes Asvel special, or put in a lot of effort to get him there. Compare to Fergus, who is probably your best enemy phase unit until Orsin comes back in chapter 8, Karin, who excels at hit and run, can fly and can take a hit or two of her own as she levels, Nanna, who is your dedicated healer until Safy and also has some enemy phase bulk with the Earth Sword, and Orsin, who is Orsin... I don't see Asvel as being realistically THAT competitive for promotion until quite a few chapters after chapter 8, not at chapter 8. Even if you are just hounding for those promotion gains, there's a lot more you have to do to get there for Asvel compared to many others who get there a bit more naturally.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Slumber

[edgelordweeaboo]

just gonna start by saying priscilla isnt underrated or overlooked at all, seems to me like she's very widely considered to be considerably better than serra and is generally considered to be one of the best units in the game. i think benny got sorta overlooked in conquest because of effie but from my experience he's significantly better than effie in every way and can basically solo the game. objectively one of the most overlooked characters would be eyrios in thracia because olwen has to either be dead or not recruited to get eyrios. 

[edgelordweeaboo]

On 12/5/2017 at 12:01 AM, Slumber said:

That post was more of a goofy "pls use Homer" post than an actual "Homer's the best, all other sages suck" post. All Sages in T776 are, by and large, amazing units. But Homer's my favorite.

I don't ever need to level Asbel's staff rank like that? The game tosses so many amazing staff bots at you that getting Asbel to promotion and promoting him ASAP has never been a priority to me, especially not so I can start grinding his staff rank. 

I'd rather give Knight Crests to Nanna, Orsin, Fergus, or Karin first, all of who offer more utility or long-term offensive potential sooner than Asbel. Part of the reason I like Homer more is because at about the time I'd consider promoting Asbel, is also around the point Homer shows up. And at that point, I would rather build up Homer, who has better stats than Asbel, and thanks to Paragon, you can get up to promotion within his join chapter. And after that, Homer will continue to gain levels like crazy. Homer also has more potential with Scroll leveling than Asbel, with the Dain Scroll being acquired the same chapter. Homer's 5 PCC makes him a much more effective unit than Asvel with Wind's innate 10% critical boost. Once Grafcalibur runs out and Asbel's no longer being guaranteed crits on double attacks, my reasons for using Asbel above any of the other sages also generally runs out. 

Even with an early promote Asbel early, Homer likely would catch up to him fairly quickly, and the argument goes back to Homer just having better stats, barring potentially a rank or so in staves. And I don't think Sage is a class you should avoid redundancy on. 

As for never matching Linoan and Sara's utility, sure. Them being able to use staves before promotion more or less already makes them amazing utility units. But they'll be slow going. Linoan lacking Paragon and being squishy hurts her a lot, since she will ultimately be a staff bot until promotion. Resire doesn't salvage her bad durability nearly enough to risk having her fighting even weaker opponents. Even with the generous EXP gains from staves, it will be a while for her. Sara gets off a bit easier due to being close to promotion when she joins and having Paragon, but she's also squishy. Squishier than Linoan. And she joins at about the point the game starts throwing mooks with stats higher than 8 at you. So again, she'll be relegated to Staffbot for quite some time before she starts being able to show some versatility. 

But again, these are more my fanboy feelings and not a concrete list of reasons why Homer's the best, or anything. 

i dont know if i'd even call homer the worst of the sages, my homer capped mgc/skl/spd/lck by level 2 promoted and still had 11 defense and 40 hp, although i did scroll abuse a little bit so that might be what's making the difference. just scroll abused him because i love homer and wanted to make sure he'd be a god