Let's clear some things up about Faye

[Bowbow]

Faye isn't a bad person I don't get this meme.

She has a big crush on Alm, ok, but so what? She's one of his childhood buddies and thinks he's super charming (Claire and Celica think this as well) and Alm rescued her from Slayder's soldiers harassing her when they were younger. Another thing people usually bring up when they voice their dislike for Faye is her support with Silque because she's apparently mean to her. This is totally BS because Silque wanted to have "girl talk" (which can very easily be interpreted as gossip) with Faye and she didn't want to take part in it, so I'm not seeing how Faye is in the wrong for not wanting to talk about other people behind their backs.

Also, based on her Heroes dialogue, it shows us that she is capable of getting over Alm and moving on.

The one thing I do dislike though is when people start comparing her to Camilla and Tharja, they're totally baseless. For starters, Faye isn't yandere, a creepy stalker, violent and abusive or mentally ill in the case of Camilla. The closest she gets to that is when she says she'll beat up Alm's enemies, but that's something everyone does in FE.

Meanwhile Camilla says things like: "My dear brother, leave it to me to kill you. I'll always remember these final moments together" and "I will do what I must to pierce your body with my blade and then cradle you in my arms."

and Tharja says things like: " ..Of course if you back out, I'll murder you in your sleep."

Geez. Can you imagine if Tharja or Camilla got rejected by the person they loved? Meanwhile Faye takes the rejection like a champ.

[maybe]

8 minutes ago, Bowbow said:

Faye isn't a bad person I don't get this meme.

She has a big crush on Alm, ok, but so what? She's one of his childhood buddies and thinks he's super charming (Claire and Celica think this as well) and Alm rescued her from Slayder's soldiers harassing her when they were younger. Another thing people usually bring up when they voice their dislike for Faye is her support with Silque because she's apparently mean to her. This is totally BS because Silque wanted to have "girl talk" (which can very easily be interpreted as gossip) with Faye and she didn't want to take part in it, so I'm not seeing how Faye is in the wrong for not wanting to talk about other people behind their backs.

Also, based on her Heroes dialogue, it shows us that she is capable of getting over Alm and moving on.

The one thing I do dislike though is when people start comparing her to Camilla and Tharja, they're totally baseless. For starters, Faye isn't yandere, a creepy stalker, violent and abusive or mentally ill in the case of Camilla. The closest she gets to that is when she says she'll beat up Alm's enemies, but that's something everyone does in FE.

Meanwhile Camilla says things like: "My dear brother, leave it to me to kill you. I'll always remember these final moments together" and "I will do what I must to pierce your body with my blade and then cradle you in my arms."

and Tharja says things like: " ..Of course if you back out, I'll murder you in your sleep."

Geez. Can you imagine if Tharja or Camilla got rejected by the person they loved? Meanwhile Faye takes the rejection like a champ.

the problem is faye pretty much just talks about alm

that's the only thing I dislike about faye

i'm fine with her having a crush on alm and all but I just wish she had more personality than just "loves alm"

like I was trying to be super positive about it when everyone else was mad and saying "oh faye only talks about alm so I hate her" when we saw her two supports and i was like "hey its' just two supports and the supports in this game clearly aren't supposed to be the main source of dialogue and characterization"

but now that i've seen more of her lines and her heroes dialogue

she always talks about alm, it's kinda really boring

i want to like her more but there's really not much more to her character and thus not much to like

[Armagon]

19 minutes ago, Bowbow said:

Another thing people usually bring up when they voice their dislike for Faye is her support with Silque because she's apparently mean to her.

I mean......i've defended Faye quite a bit but even I will admit that she was rude, in the Japanese version that is. But her A-Support with Silque does show that Faye can make friends with other people.

 

19 minutes ago, Bowbow said:

The one thing I do dislike though is when people start comparing her to Camilla and Tharja, they're totally baseless. For starters, Faye isn't yandere, a creepy stalker, violent and abusive or mentally ill in the case of Camilla. The closest she gets to that is when she says she'll beat up Alm's enemies, but that's something everyone does in FE.

This. I really don't get why people say Faye is Tharja 3.0. Really, the closest character Faye resembles is actually Malleisa from FE3/12. From the conversations i've seen from Mallesia, a lot of them involve her fantasizing over Marth. She gets over it in the end but only after realizing that Marth was already engaged to Caeda. And while Malleisa does get over it, she also has a disappeared ending. Like, actually disappeared. No one ever sees Malleisa again. Whereas Faye doesn't get over Alm but only disappears sometimes. People claim she lives forever unhappily but i seriously doubt that, seeing as how cheerful she can get. Same for Mallesia too. Mallesia may have gone "poof" but wherever she is after the war, she's probably having a good time.

 

Just now, unique said:

i want to like her more but there's really not much more to her character and thus not much to like

To be fair, it's not even really her fault. It's just that she's barely given any time to develop. At least, for now. We got that DLC in the summer that'll focus on character development. And if Fates' DLC could give some form of character development to Fire Emblem's worst character (Peri), then i'm pretty sure Faye can get something good out of Echoes DLC.

By then though, i'm sure people will have moved on from this whole thing. 

I've said it before and i'll say it again: Faye isn't actually that bad. Like most one-note characters in the series, she's alright. Not good but not bad either.

[Thinks Their Own Way]

Cordelia is the one who proposes to Gregor if you're doing that pairing, Camilla and Tharja still act the way they do even if the avatar is female (I find it often in these discussions people forget the avatars can be female). I'm just disappointed with Faye (despite feeling like she was only added to avoid criticism of Alm's group being one large sausage party in the beginning like in the original Gaiden); I'm just tried of the whole childhood crush cliche and the childhood friends to lovers cliche in general. I wish she was more crazy to be honest.

[Bowbow]

2 hours ago, unique said:

the problem is faye pretty much just talks about alm

that's the only thing I dislike about faye

i'm fine with her having a crush on alm and all but I just wish she had more personality than just "loves alm"

like I was trying to be super positive about it when everyone else was mad and saying "oh faye only talks about alm so I hate her" when we saw her two supports and i was like "hey its' just two supports and the supports in this game clearly aren't supposed to be the main source of dialogue and characterization"

but now that i've seen more of her lines and her heroes dialogue

she always talks about alm, it's kinda really boring

i want to like her more but there's really not much more to her character and thus not much to like

I can't blame you there I guess. Outside of her big crush on Alm she doesn't have a lot and what we do know is that she cares for her family a lot and regularly writes to them (base convo), likes to bake bread and garden (Alm support) and sew (Heroes). Though this can apply to a lot of characters in Echoes due to very limited supports, a lot of them being kinda pointless.

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

I mean......i've defended Faye quite a bit but even I will admit that she was rude, in the Japanese version that is. But her A-Support with Silque does show that Faye can make friends with other people.

She does come off as rude initially, but it's most likely because she thought Silque just wanted to gossip. "Girl talk" can be interpreted in a lot of ways. What I do like about her Silque support tho is that it shows a bit of a vulnerable side to her because she has moments where she feels lonely.

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

This. I really don't get why people say Faye is Tharja 3.0. Really, the closest character Faye resembles is actually Malleisa from FE3/12. From the conversations i've seen from Mallesia, a lot of them involve her fantasizing over Marth. She gets over it in the end but only after realizing that Marth was already engaged to Caeda. And while Malleisa does get over it, she also has a disappeared ending. Like, actually disappeared. No one ever sees Malleisa again. Whereas Faye doesn't get over Alm but only disappears sometimes. People claim she lives forever unhappily but i seriously doubt that, seeing as how cheerful she can get. Same for Mallesia too. Mallesia may have gone "poof" but wherever she is after the war, she's probably having a good time.

Agreed.

[NekoKnight]

6 hours ago, Bowbow said:

Faye isn't a bad person I don't get this meme.

She has a big crush on Alm, ok, but so what?

Most people have a personality outside of liking another.

6 hours ago, Bowbow said:

Another thing people usually bring up when they voice their dislike for Faye is her support with Silque because she's apparently mean to her. This is totally BS because Silque wanted to have "girl talk" (which can very easily be interpreted as gossip) with Faye and she didn't want to take part in it, so I'm not seeing how Faye is in the wrong for not wanting to talk about other people behind their backs.

I think you need to reassess her supports.

Spoiler

S: Faye-san

F: Ah, Silk. Lately we keep ending up together.

S: Yes. Um...I'd like it if we could become closer. I mean, Lord Alm's party has very few girls. And there's some things you can only talk about with another girl, isn't that right?

F: Hmm...I have no need for that.

S: Eh?

F: As far as girls talk goes I want to be by Alm's side. That's it. See you later.

S: N-no way...Faye-san?

 

S: There you are Faye-san!

F: Silk...it's you again.

S: I came up with a good idea. Let us talk about lord Alm together. That way you will have fun.

F: Um...no I won't. Because Alm isn't here. Just leave it. Don't mind me.

S: Ah, Effie-san? Hm, she run away on me again.

 

F: Hey Silk.

S: Faye-san? For you to greet me first...What is it?

F: Well...lately you haven't been calling out to me right? So it seems I've been feeling kinda lonely. Sorry for just doing as I please.

S: No no, it's fine. It makes me happy you feel that way.

F: Hehe...you're so kind and funny. I'm not really interested in girls talk but I'd like to talk to you. Can I call out to you again?

S: Y-yes! Anytime you want.

In her C support, Silque approaches her with an offer of friendship and Faye rebuffs her with "You're not Alm so I don't need you". Her B Support has Silque trying to find common ground and talk about Faye's interests, but Faye rejects her again with "Nope. Alms not here." Finally, in her A support, Faye only starts talking to Silque because she felt lonely.

6 hours ago, Bowbow said:

Also, based on her Heroes dialogue, it shows us that she is capable of getting over Alm and moving on.

1. Heroes isn't canon. Her SoV ending says she never gets over Alm.
2. The level 40 dialogue has everyone becoming BFFs with the Summoner. It's like the S supports in Awakening/Fates. By the time you get that final support, the characters will think of each other as their top priority. It's just how they're structured. Cordelia supposedly gets over Chrom in many of her S-supports but that doesn't change the fact that her character is otherwise super infatuated with him.

6 hours ago, Bowbow said:

For starters, Faye isn't yandere

Did you read her base conversation? I don't know about you but if someone approached me and said "It's not that I understand you, it's that your thoughts are my thoughts", I'd be backing away slowly towards the door.

Edited April 19, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Azure Sen]

2 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Did you read her base conversation? I don't know about you but if someone approached me and said "It's not that I understand you, it's that your thoughts are my thoughts", I'd be backing away slowly towards the door.

There's also the lines immediately after that where she says she'll never disobey him, her inability to talk about anything but Alm even to her family according to her Ch. 5 base convo, and her lines in her Supports with Alm where she gets so excited over him giving her an indirect kiss (which is the only context the whole bread-eating thing remotely makes sense in) that she can't sleep...even if she's not a yandere or anywhere near as bad as Camilla or Tharja, Faye's feelings for Alm are pretty clearly obsessive and unhealthy, and I'm fairly certain it's unintentional given the context of them (especially in the Alm-Faye supports, which from the tone of them were supposed to be comedic minus the last one).

Also re: Faye being a deconstruction, it doesn't work for one major reason, in that Faye suffers no realistic or serious consequences (an ending slide telling us that she never got over Alm doesn't count, because we don't see it). An example of an actual deconstruction would be it being shown that Faye is in love with an idealized Alm and not who Alm actually is (which you could argue is actually the case, given some of her lines), and then having that idealized image of Alm shattered. Unfortunately as far as the information we have goes, the latter never happens and Faye remains the same shallow, Alm-obsessed character she was at the beginning of the game.

Edited April 19, 2017 by AzureSen

[Arvin]

Faye is a miserable person. Tharja, Camilla and even Cordelia can get a happy ending and they're all able to move on. Faye can't and she'll take her Alm boner to her grave.

[Armagon]

2 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I think you need to reassess her supports.

  Reveal hidden contents

S: Faye-san

F: Ah, Silk. Lately we keep ending up together.

S: Yes. Um...I'd like it if we could become closer. I mean, Lord Alm's party has very few girls. And there's some things you can only talk about with another girl, isn't that right?

F: Hmm...I have no need for that.

S: Eh?

F: As far as girls talk goes I want to be by Alm's side. That's it. See you later.

S: N-no way...Faye-san?

 

S: There you are Faye-san!

F: Silk...it's you again.

S: I came up with a good idea. Let us talk about lord Alm together. That way you will have fun.

F: Um...no I won't. Because Alm isn't here. Just leave it. Don't mind me.

S: Ah, Effie-san? Hm, she run away on me again.

 

F: Hey Silk.

S: Faye-san? For you to greet me first...What is it?

F: Well...lately you haven't been calling out to me right? So it seems I've been feeling kinda lonely. Sorry for just doing as I please.

S: No no, it's fine. It makes me happy you feel that way.

F: Hehe...you're so kind and funny. I'm not really interested in girls talk but I'd like to talk to you. Can I call out to you again?

S: Y-yes! Anytime you want.

In her C support, Silque approaches her with an offer of friendship and Faye rebuffs her with "You're not Alm so I don't need you". Her B Support has Silque trying to find common ground and talk about Faye's interests, but Faye rejects her again with "Nope. Alms not here." Finally, in her A support, Faye only starts talking to Silque because she felt lonely.

 

And that's GOOD and you wanna know why? Because Faye realized her mistake. Took her a while to do so but she realized it in the end. Faye even apolgizes, which appearntly people seem to miss. This Support conversation shows that while Faye can be a jerk, she's also capable of recgonizing it.....eventually.

2 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

1. Heroes isn't canon. Her SoV ending says she never gets over Alm.

2. The level 40 dialogue has everyone becoming BFFs with the Summoner. It's like the S supports in Awakening/Fates. By the time you get that final support, the characters will think of each other as their top priority. It's just how they're structured. Cordelia supposedly gets over Chrom in many of her S-supports but that doesn't change the fact that her character is otherwise super infatuated with him.

1. Heroes quotes are non-canon, yes, but they are still true to the character. And I can't believe I have to bring it up a 3rd time: Heroes Faye is our first-look at English SoV Faye. All the Supports, Base Convos, and even the ending. Do you want to know where we got that from? Directly translated from the Japanese version. The localization is likely gonna change somethings, including Faye. Is it changing a lot? No. But is it changing? Yes. That quote in Heroes about getting better with her bow? In the Japanese version, it's exclusively about fighting for Alm.

2. Despite that, those lv.40 Quotes are still true to the character. For example, Tharja was like "Oh, you came here even though the hex didn't work". Ephraim mentions something about, despite wanting peace, he still has his lance ready, which lines up perfectly with what he says in Sacred Stones about wanting to travel the land as a mercenary and leaving the throne to Eirika. Even the villains remain true to their character. Look at Zephiel. You think Zephiel is gonna be BFFs with you? Ha, nope. His lv.40 quote basically says you are the one human who has earned his respect but should you lose it, he will slowly strangle the life out of you.

2 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Did you read her base conversation? I don't know about you but if someone approached me and said "It's not that I understand you, it's that your thoughts are my thoughts", I'd be backing away slowly towards the door.

I've said this before but it really does look like Faye just doesn't realize what she says. But there's a very good reason why you would be backing down the door: because you aren't her friend. Neither am i for that matter but i'm looking at perspectives here. If someone, a stranger, would to say that to me, i too would be backing away. But if a friend said it to me, we would probably joke about it.

57 minutes ago, AzureSen said:

Her inability to talk about anything but Alm even to her family according to her Ch. 5 base convo, 

Also re: Faye being a deconstruction, it doesn't work for one major reason, in that Faye suffers no realistic or serious consequences (an ending slide telling us that she never got over Alm doesn't count, because we don't see it). An example would be it being shown that Faye is in love with an idealized Alm and not who Alm actually is (which you could argue is actually the case, given some of her lines), and then having that idealized image of Alm shattered. Unfortunately as far as the information we have goes, the latter never happens and Faye remains the same shallow, Alm-obsessed character she was at the beginning of the game.

1. But she still cares about her family. The fact that she wants to tell them everything about Alm is diffrent matter. By the time this happens, Alm has already rejected her, which Faye knew was gonna happen anyways, and this is Faye basically just not letting go, which is a thing that happens in real life.

2. I would definitly count the ending. Just because we don't see what happens doesn't mean it shouldn't count. Now, the question is how much Alm-obbsesed does she remain at the end of the game? If we're going by the version of her ending where she gets married, this shows that she has moved on from Alm, at least to an extent. What she does when she occasionally disappears is entierly up to you. That's the case for the "disappeard" type endings anyway.

 

Also, i missed this bit:

1 hour ago, AzureSen said:

 and her lines in her Supports with Alm where she gets so excited over him giving her an indirect kiss (which is the only context the whole bread-eating thing remotely makes sense in) that she can't sleep...even if she's not a yandere or anywhere near as bad as Camilla or Tharja, Faye's feelings for Alm are pretty clearly obsessive and unhealthy, and I'm fairly certain it's unintentional given the context of them (especially in the Alm-Faye supports, which from the tone of them were supposed to be comedic minus the last one).

Replace unhealthy with childish and it's more accurate. This whole thing started with Faye having a childhood crush with Alm and, as time went on, it grew, but at it's core, remains childish. This is why she acts so cheerful around Alm and Alm even admires her cheerfulness. In their B-Support, Alm says "Faye gets so excited over the littlest things. Maybe I should learn from her."

[NekoKnight]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

And that's GOOD and you wanna know why? Because Faye realized her mistake. Took her a while to do so but she realized it in the end. Faye even apolgizes, which appearntly people seem to miss. This Support conversation shows that while Faye can be a jerk, she's also capable of recgonizing it.....eventually.

I see it in a different way. Faye only talks to Silque because she felt lonely when Silque didn't go out of her way to talk to her. If someone rudely rejected my offers of friendship and then came crawling back because they were lonely, I'd be pissed. SIlque needs some more self respect.

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

1. Heroes quotes are non-canon, yes, but they are still true to the character. And I can't believe I have to bring it up a 3rd time: Heroes Faye is our first-look at English SoV Faye. All the Supports, Base Convos, and even the ending. Do you want to know where we got that from? Directly translated from the Japanese version. The localization is likely gonna change somethings, including Faye. Is it changing a lot? No. But is it changing? Yes. That quote in Heroes about getting better with her bow? In the Japanese version, it's exclusively about fighting for Alm.

2. Despite that, those lv.40 Quotes are still true to the character. For example, Tharja was like "Oh, you came here even though the hex didn't work". Ephraim mentions something about, despite wanting peace, he still has his lance ready, which lines up perfectly with what he says in Sacred Stones about wanting to travel the land as a mercenary and leaving the throne to Eirika. Even the villains remain true to their character. Look at Zephiel. You think Zephiel is gonna be BFFs with you? Ha, nope. His lv.40 quote basically says you are the one human who has earned his respect but should you lose it, he will slowly strangle the life out of you.

They're non-canon which means they shouldn't be the basis of a defense, no matter how faithful you think they are to the original games. It's an even worse argument to make that "It's the first look at English SoV Faye!" No, it's a look at English Heroes!Faye. You're using a non-canon game and SPECULATION to defend Faye's character.

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

I've said this before but it really does look like Faye just doesn't realize what she says.

My goodness, now your argument is "Sure she SAID those things but clearly she didn't mean them!"

Edited April 19, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Armagon]

38 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I see it in a different way. Faye only talks to Silque because she felt lonely when Silque didn't go out of her way to talk to her. If someone rudely rejected my offers of friendship and then came crawling back because they were lonely, I'd be pissed. SIlque needs some more self respect.

Ok but that's more of a personal thing than anything. Clearly Silque is a more forgiving person. But if you were to replace Silque with Severa (I know she's not in this game, i'm just using an example), I 100% guarantee that she would not forgive Faye. 

In other words, Faye is capable of eventually realizing her mistakes. Whether the other person sees that and forgives her is an entierly diffrent matter. 

38 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

They're non-canon which means they shouldn't be the basis of a defense, no matter how faithful you think they are to the original games. It's an even worse argument to make that "It's the first look at English SoV Faye!" No, it's a look at English Heroes!Faye. You're using a non-canon game and SPECULATION to defend Faye's character.

It actually is our first look at English SoV Faye. You know why? Because Faye, Alm, Clair and Lukas appearing in the game one month in advance before SoV's release means that these characters are here to promote the game. Actually, Heroes is one big promotion for the series. If you're promoting a character a month before the release of a game, why have that character act one way, only to have them act a diffrent way entierly when the game actually comes out? That would make no sense. That's called false advertising. 

 

38 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

My goodness, now your argument is "Sure she SAID those things but clearly she didn't mean them!"

That's not actually what I said though. I explained this earlier, like in the previous page i think. Faye has the "it's the thought the counts" mentality. Which isn't always a good mentality.

I'm refering to that Ch.3 Base Convo btw. Regarding the Supports with Silque, i know that Faye was actually being rude there. 

 

We'll find out whether i'm right or wrong in a month (+maybe the character development DLC that comes out in summer). If i'm right, yay, we move on. If i'm wrong, we move on, but i also have to replay my least favorite FE as punishment. And my least favorite FE happens to be Thracia 776.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Armagon

[technickal]

Yeah, as someone who hates Tharja, they only have superficial similarities. She's much more like the Catria archetype (i.e. Cordelia, Flora, etc.)
As for her support with Silque, it seems more cold/distant than rude to me. She even realizes how she made Silque feel later, and they do end up becoming friends.

Edited April 19, 2017 by technickal

[Bowbow]

7 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

In her C support, Silque approaches her with an offer of friendship and Faye rebuffs her with "You're not Alm so I don't need you". Her B Support has Silque trying to find common ground and talk about Faye's interests, but Faye rejects her again with "Nope. Alms not here." Finally, in her A support, Faye only starts talking to Silque because she felt lonely.

Then I guess that's how you view it. Shoddy translation with some grammar errors aside, the way I view it is that Silque wants to have girl talk and Faye doesn't so she turns her offer down. Notice when Faye says in the B-support: " Um...no I won't. Because Alm isn't here. Just leave it. Don't mind me.", it shows that she doesn't want to gossip about Alm. And she starts talking to Silque in the A-support because she wants to apologize for coming off as a bit rude initially.

7 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

1. Heroes isn't canon. Her SoV ending says she never gets over Alm.

Heroes IS canon. Just because it's a mobile game doesn't mean it's not. IS considers it to be part of the main series so it undoubtedly is canon.

http://nintendoeverything.com/fire-emblem-heroes-devs-on-post-launch-plans-started-to-consider-after-fates/

" The goal of Fire Emblem Heroes during development was to have the main team behind Awakening and Fates create a brand-new game in the main Fire Emblem series.”

7 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Did you read her base conversation? I don't know about you but if someone approached me and said "It's not that I understand you, it's that your thoughts are my thoughts", I'd be backing away slowly towards the door.

I did, nothing yandere about it at all. Also you left out the part where she says she THINKS she knows how Alm thinks. Why not give her the benefit of the doubt? What if she actually does think Alm likes her over Celica at that point? Again I'm not seeing how she's yandere. It's not like she pulls a Camilla and threatens to saw off Alm's legs so he can always be with her or something.

7 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Most people have a personality outside of liking another.

Most people aren't Echoes characters. Most characters in Echoes don't have much personality outside of their main quirk and gimmick. This isn't exclusive to just Faye.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Bowbow said:

Heroes IS canon. Just because it's a mobile game doesn't mean it's not. IS considers it to be part of the main series so it undoubtedly is canon.

http://nintendoeverything.com/fire-emblem-heroes-devs-on-post-launch-plans-started-to-consider-after-fates/

" The goal of Fire Emblem Heroes during development was to have the main team behind Awakening and Fates create a brand-new game in the main Fire Emblem series.”

Ok, i know that spin-off games have their own canon seperate from the main series but......if IS considers Heroes to be a mainline game........that's actually pretty big. Just the fact that IS considers it a main game makes it enough to be canon. As to how it's canon, i mean, Heroes is one big Outrealm party, so.

 

1 hour ago, Bowbow said:

Most people aren't Echoes characters. Most characters in Echoes don't have much personality outside of their main quirk and gimmick. This isn't exclusive to just Faye.

As much as i'm defending Faye, i will admit she is the most one-note character we've seen out of Echoes' playable cast. The other character that comes anywhere close is Conrad because he seems to talk a lot about Celica. Though in his defense, he only has one Support and that's WITH Celica. 

Spoiler

He's also Celica's brother, so it makes sense.

Being one-note doesn't make Faye bad though.

[Azure Sen]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

It actually is our first look at English SoV Faye. You know why? Because Faye, Alm, Clair and Lukas appearing in the game one month in advance before SoV's release means that these characters are here to promote the game. Actually, Heroes is one big promotion for the series. If you're promoting a character a month before the release of a game, why have that character act one way, only to have them act a diffrent way entierly when the game actually comes out? That would make no sense. That's called false advertising. 

Heroes' localization is being handled by a different group than 8-4, who is doing Echoes' localization. Plenty of characters in Heroes have portrayals that are in some way or another wrong in regards to their actual canon portrayals, be it sanding away any their more nuanced traits or focusing entirely on one single trait; trying to claim that Heroes' version of Faye is going to be canon is like claiming Project X Zone's versions of Chrom and Lucina are canon.

A character written differently in two different games by two different writing/localization teams is not false advertising. False advertising is when a company deliberately uses misleading or outright fake information to sell a product to a consumer, often involving hiding potential side-effects, hazards, product unreliability, etc. Someone selling you a stick of wax and claiming it cures headaches by rubbing it on your head is false advertising, a character not staying consistent between two games is just writing problems.

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

1. But she still cares about her family. The fact that she wants to tell them everything about Alm is diffrent matter. By the time this happens, Alm has already rejected her, which Faye knew was gonna happen anyways, and this is Faye basically just not letting go, which is a thing that happens in real life.

Which is irrelevant to my point, I'm not quite sure why you're bringing this up.

And also, it's important to note that just because it happens in real life does not mean it makes for good writing. Nor does it automatically make a character's motivations more understandable or sympathetic.

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

2. I would definitly count the ending. Just because we don't see what happens doesn't mean it shouldn't count. Now, the question is how much Alm-obbsesed does she remain at the end of the game? If we're going by the version of her ending where she gets married, this shows that she has moved on from Alm, at least to an extent. What she does when she occasionally disappears is entierly up to you. That's the case for the "disappeard" type endings anyway.

The whole point of a deconstruction is to examine and explore the realistic origins/consequences of the underlying conventions of any given concept, removing the more illogical or fantastical elements that allow them to function in a story normally; using the same bog-standard ending expected of the sort of story you're telling is just being the thing you're supposedly deconstructing, and having those supposed consequences relegated to a slide in the ending with no further examination undercuts the whole point of the deconstruction. And that's still assuming that Faye's a deconstruction, which she isn't, because she and the tropes (I swear TV Tropes has ruined that term) surrounding her are played straight; she only comes off as a deconstruction because the writers didn't realize how she came off in interactions with others, which is a pretty common problem that even the best writers have.

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Replace unhealthy with childish and it's more accurate. This whole thing started with Faye having a childhood crush with Alm and, as time went on, it grew, but at it's core, remains childish. This is why she acts so cheerful around Alm and Alm even admires her cheerfulness. In their B-Support, Alm says "Faye gets so excited over the littlest things. Maybe I should learn from her."

That doesn't make Faye's behavior not unhealthy. And, truthfully, I'd like you to know your perspective as to why Faye's behavior isn't unhealthy, because I haven't gotten a real feel on your arguments against the idea from your posts.

1 hour ago, Bowbow said:

Most people aren't Echoes characters. Most characters in Echoes don't have much personality outside of their main quirk and gimmick. This isn't exclusive to just Faye.

Even if that's true, that doesn't excuse bad writing. The other Echoes characters have personalities interactions with other characters that don't revolve around one character; Faye is the only character whose single-minded obsession dominates every aspect of every interaction she has with other characters. She has no goals of her own and no interests outside Alm, things all of the characters have at least one of in their supports or base convos.

Edited April 19, 2017 by AzureSen

[Thunderstar]

20 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Can someone who's played more of the games than I have tell me if we've ever seen a male example of the obsessive, unrequited crush?  From what I've seen, it seems we mostly have females with that trait, while males are more likely to just be general womanizers (not necessarily focusing on one woman in particular).

Also, I can't speak to whether or not it would be sexist, but it would certainly be poor writing and boring to only have strong-personality characters...

We didn't really get male characters like that in the past mainly because the previous games weren't written with an Avatar in mind.
The closest previous characters we have are villains mainly because of manipulation.
Hardin loved Nyna and she didn't love him then he was under the influence of the Darksphere. Valter was obssessed about possessing Eirika but that's because his cursed lance (no pun I swear!) fucked up his mind. Orson became crazy after his wife died and wanted to stay with her reanimated corpse forever.
Even though Arvis 

Spoiler

loved Deirdre and it is one of the reasons he killed Sigurd, he would have still killed him anyways because he wanted to become Grandbell/Grandvalle's Emperor.

The fact that we have characters such as Camilla/Tharja and Faye has nothing to do with sexism.

Characters who love the MC and to be more precise the self insert/avatar are very popular in Japan. And since most of the people who love them are guys, it's normal that most of these characters are girls.  It's not necessary unrequited because Tharja and Camilla can marry Robin/Corrin.

All characters who are obsessed towards a characters aren't yanderes but all yanderes are obsessive towards someone.
This is why these characters and yanderes are very popular and one of the reasons why both Tharja and Camilla are two of the most popular females in FE.
 

Of course Alm is not a self-insert but he is the closest thing that the game has for one and Faye is pretty much written like these characters even though she is not threatening/violent. It doesn't excuse her not having much things to do besides thinking about Alm all the time though.

I know that Heroes might not be canon but if you look at how these 3 characters act towards Kiran/the player, you can have an idea about what IS was trying to do with them.

Camilla pretty acts like how she does with Corrin with the player, Tharja isn't threatening to the player, she even tries to act normal like she did with Robin and she says that the player is as precious to her as Robin. Faye seems to get over Alm and she starts to take an interest in the player even though she doesn't seem to do it during the main game of SoV.
IS clearly uses these characters for the player pandering and worshipping.

Of course there are other characters who like you in Heroes however it doesn't take that far. Clair for example, still tells you that she is interested in Alm Poor Gray and not in you because she's not written to only worship you and does other things in SoV and in the plot because of Gray, Clive, Mathilda and Fernand.

Also compared to the other new exclusive characters in SoV, Faye is the only one who doesn't seem to add something in the story and the worldbuilding.

The closest allied male character who is quite similar to them is Jakob. 
Jakob only cares about Corrin and to serve them. He is also rude towards anyone who wants to take care of Corrin instead of him such as Camilla and his own son Dwyer in their supports (he even seems to be violent towards Dwyer because of that).
That behaviour quite helped his popularity.

If you look at some fanarts with the Royal brothers in Fates, you can see that the fangirls seem to treat them similarly.

The males only care about female Corrin (who represents the player and here the fangirls), want to possess her and often quarrel between each other because of her. We can see that female Corrin is treated like that in official sources such as the 4koma book.

Leo's fangirls were even pissed when the Making of FE book was released because it was mentioned that Leo has "feelings that extend beyond familiar" for Camilla.

Honestly I don't think that IS is going to stop to create characters such as Camilla/Tharja and Faye especially to how popular Tharja and Camilla are.
Though I guess we need to wait SoV's popularity poll to see Faye's rank but imo she would probably be well ranked and I guess that the FE Switch would have a similar character following the same trope. 

 

On 17/04/2017 at 3:04 AM, Armagon said:

But we can all agree that Tharja is a stalker, right? Because that's what Tharja does, but not Camilla and Faye.

I could be wrong but didn't Camilla's retainers say to Corrin in C10 that they stuck to the shadows hovering, caring and watching him?
I mean the dialogue just seems like a big joke but to me, it is quite similar to staking or just love!
 

 

On 17/04/2017 at 5:01 AM, Mackc2 said:

I have no idea where i got this notion but i always thought she was attracted to robin by "The darkness in his heart"
 

  Reveal hidden contents

aka the Fell Dragon Grima

 

Actually the main reason is because the avatar did things to her  and promised that "she's the only one" in a dream.
There is a dialogue in the japanese website that explains that and there are a few hints about it in the english version in the game.

She says that she has devised a hex to make drams come true when she is talking when she is with someone in the event tiles and when the avatar asks her what is her dream, she's getting embarassed like when she's involved with things related to sex in her dialogues with Cordelia and Nowi in the DLC.

Also since she seems to like how nice the Avatar is, it probably has nothing to with the Avatar

Spoiler

being Grima's vessel.

Here is a video which translates that special dialogue:

Spoiler

 

 

[Armagon]

6 hours ago, Thunderstar said:

All characters who are obsessed towards a characters aren't yanderes but all yanderes are obsessive towards someone.

What? That actually confused me, please clarify.

 

6 hours ago, Thunderstar said:

Faye seems to get over Alm and she starts to take an interest in the player even though she doesn't seem to do it during the main game of SoV.

Aside from that though, we do learn one, small thing about Faye that don't necessarily relate to the player. Such as the fact that she likes to pick and sew flowers, which she likely uses to make good luck charms. 

 

Oh, it's at this point is where I realize i was quoting out of order. Woops.

6 hours ago, AzureSen said:

Heroes' localization is being handled by a different group than 8-4, who is doing Echoes' localization. Plenty of characters in Heroes have portrayals that are in some way or another wrong in regards to their actual canon portrayals, be it sanding away any their more nuanced traits or focusing entirely on one single trait; trying to claim that Heroes' version of Faye is going to be canon is like claiming Project X Zone's versions of Chrom and Lucina are canon.

1. Being handled by a different localization group doesn't really mean anything. Because the English version of Heroes accurately portrays a lot of Awakening characters, characters that were also localized by 8-4. Also, regarding other characters, their portrayal is still accurate. In fact, the only out of character thing i've seen from Heroes' characters is one Eirika's quotes, which says "If this is war, so be it", which I feel is a bit out of character for her. But besides that one quote, Heroes has done a pretty good job of accurately portraying characters. Especially the ones from Awakening and onwards. Plus, there was probably some form of communication between 8-4 and whichever team is localizing Heroes. Especially since this is a Nintendo game we're talking about.
2. Project X Zone? Really? REALLY? Project X Zone is it's own thing. It has nothing to do with this.

6 hours ago, AzureSen said:

And that's still assuming that Faye's a deconstruction, which she isn't,

Oh yeah, i actually agree with you on this. I was never arguing over whether or not Faye was a deconstruction. I was just saying that her ending shouldn't be counted out.

 

6 hours ago, AzureSen said:

That doesn't make Faye's behavior not unhealthy. And, truthfully, I'd like you to know your perspective as to why Faye's behavior isn't unhealthy, because I haven't gotten a real feel on your arguments against the idea from your posts.

Ok, so to explain my point of view, we're gonna have to first take a look at everyone's favorite Plegian stalker, Tharja. As we all know, Tharja has an obsession with Robin. An unhealthy one, in fact. Let's go over why.

• Tharja watches Robin in sleep, while taking notes of how many times he turns over in bed.
• Tharja takes count of how many books Robin reads each day.
• Tharja used a hex to give Robin a cold so that she can take care of him. Since this happens in their A-Support, Robin doesn't accuse Tharja of it and genuinely believes he did come down with a cold. Oh and here's my evidence for that
• Spoiler

  Tharja: I thought you might accuse me of putting a curse on you...

  Avatar: "I'd never assume that! What kind of monster would curse their friend...

  Tharja: ...Oh. Right. That would be crazy! Heh heh.

  Yeeeeeaahhh, that's the tell-tale sign right there that Tharja did in fact, curse Robin.

   

• Tharja threatens to kill Robin in his sleep should he ever back out from their marriage.

• In the event that Tharja remains single by the end of Awakening, she spends most of her life creating hexes and stuff to reunite with Robin.

• If Tharja marries Henry, she says in their S-Support that, should both her life and Robin's be in danger, Henry is to leave Tharja and rescue Robin instead.

Tharja has a pretty unhealthy obsession with Robin, right? Now, let's compare it with Faye and we'll see why Faye's obsession with Alm isn't unhealthy.

• Faye has known Alm since childhood. At that stage, it's simply a childhood crush rather than an obsession.
• Unlike Tharja, who stalks Robin and uses curses to be with him, Faye does none of that. While Faye may display some manipulative moments, as someone mentioned in a previous post these are few. In fact, the only time where this may be seen is in that Ch.3 Base Convo.
• By the time A-Support rolls around, Faye already knew that Alm was going to reject her
• Spoiler

  Faye: Our journey's going to be over soon, isn't it? There's something I have to say to you first... Maybe now's not the best time, but please hear me out.

  Alm: That's fine. What do you want to say?

  Faye: I...have a dream. When the war's over, you're going to return to Ram Village, right? And you'll live a quiet life, preparing bread, having a garden, living carefree; stuff like that. I want to live like that with you. That's my dream.

  Alm: Faye...

  Faye: What do you think? Wanna make it happen?

  Alm: ...Sorry, Faye. I'm not going back to the village - I can't. There are so many things I want to do. I only found those things because of you all helping me along the way. Thank you, Faye. I'm glad we could have this journey together.

  Faye: Well...I figured you'd say something like that. And I loved being by your side, too... When we've finished this war, farewell, Alm. But I'll still love you until that time comes. That should be fine, right?

  The Support above basically shows that Faye knew it was gonna happen eventually. Also, take a look at the beginning of the convo. "There's something I have to say to you first... Maybe now's not the best time, but please hear me out." This line right here is basically Faye recognizing that the place they are in right now isn't really the best of places to confess. And this is important. Because despite Faye's obsession of Alm, at the end of the day, she still genuinely loves and cares about him. Compare that to Tharja. Outside of their S-Support, does Tharja genuinely love and care about Robin? Uh, that's actually pretty questionable. Especially considering the previously mentioned curse.

  • Now, A-Rank between the two unlocks at Ch.4. The Base Convo where Faye says that she wants to write exclusively about Alm unlocks in Ch.5 (Faye should write a biography about Alm then). Now, personally, A-Rank and the Ch.5 Base Convo should switch unlock requirements. The Base Convo should've unlocked at Ch.4 while the A-Rank should've unlocked at Ch.5. But it didn't. Which means now I have to look into this. My interpretation is that, when the Ch.5 Base Convo happens, since Faye has already been rejected by Alm at that point, her saying about wanting to write exclusively about him basically her clinging on to the past. At this point in time, Faye doesn't want to believe that Alm rejected her. She knows it happened but she doesn't want to believe it. Now, whether she gets over it in the end, well that's the question. Mostly everybody here says that she doesn't and she dies miserably. However, I disagree (no, i wasn't referencing that meme. Ok maybe i was). Does Faye fully get over Alm? Uh, probably not. But, I believe she gets over it, at least to an extent. Especially if we're going by the version of the ending in which she gets married. Despite her occasional disappearances, she still returns to her family in the end. Despite Faye's one-noteness, her obsession with Alm and all that, she isn't the type of girl that would live forever in sorrow.

6 hours ago, AzureSen said:

Even if that's true, that doesn't excuse bad writing.

While it isn't that bad, I do have to agree with this. Faye's main issue here is that she's never really given a chance to grow.....yet, and i'll get into that later. If i remember correctly, unlike the other villagers, Faye doesn't really have any plot relevance outside of the prologue. And given the game's limited Supports, her only Support Convo partners are Alm (which makes sense), and Silque. Why they didn't give Faye Support Convos with her other village friends is beyond me, especially since that was easy Support material right there.

 

Now, regarding Faye's relationships with non-Alm characters, there is something worth pointing out: while she doesn't talk with them, she does give Support Bonuses to Celica and Mycen. And this is actually pretty interesting because what these Support Bonuses represent is that the characters already have a strong enough relationship. That's been the case since FE3. 

Now, quickly back to what i said about Faye not having a chance to grow at the moment. As you all know, we're (hopefully) getting that character development DLC in the summer. And that's basically gonna be Faye's last chance to grow. If she does, yay. If she doesn't, i will admit i'll be a bit disappointed. But regardless of the outcome, i doubt i'll ever come to hate Faye.

Edit: Ok, so i just read about how the DLC maps were datamined and all, and, none of the 10 character development maps will focus on Faye. 4 of the 10 are focusing on events regarding the Deliverance before the start of the game. The rest of the maps are for getting new, apparently 4th-tier Classes. While that is awesome (Alm gets a Class called the Grand Conqueror, so here come the theories), this also means that Faye won't really be getting any more character development. Welp, there goes my dream. RIP. I still don't hate her though.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Armagon

[L9999]

On 2017-4-19 at 3:09 AM, AzureSen said:

giving her an indirect kiss (which is the only context the whole bread-eating thing remotely makes sense in)

Damn, now I feel like a moron.

On 2017-4-19 at 7:26 AM, NekoKnight said:

I see it in a different way. Faye only talks to Silque because she felt lonely when Silque didn't go out of her way to talk to her. If someone rudely rejected my offers of friendship and then came crawling back because they were lonely, I'd be pissed. SIlque needs some more self respect.

She is a cleric, nice and quick to forgive. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

Don't have an opinion on Faye's character, nor that of any other SoV char. I offer just a little musing of how IS could perhaps handle this archetype or whatever you call it in the future again. 

Perhaps the hero and their unrequited lover start on a promising note. The two work up some relationship, short of engagement, but perhaps with dreams of it being palpable. Yet gradually over the game, the hero outgrows the situation things were in at the start of the game, whilst the lover fails to adapt. The lover tries to pull down the hero, and the hero tries to lift up the lover, but failing that just breaks off the shackles- the great cause for which the hero fights requires they not be bound, and prioritizing this cause, thus they must crush their still dear friend and now former beloved's feelings. Cold, but alas some of the fault lay in her narrow-mindedness. To balance the picture a little and not throw all the blame on the lover, make it so what the hero feels they must do/be for the greater cause, is not necessarily 100% accurate, that there could be a little wiggle room which the lover could possibly, if they were willing to adapt at all, fit into.

Of course, this would require that the hero recognize the lover's love for what is it, not be clueless about it. And the hero would have to be responsible for breaking the romance, instead of the lover's failure to confess and or star-crossed romance being the main problem. We just can't have those things!

It'd be a fluke for IS to try this.

[Carter]

On the Silque topic, I think it was smart for her to forgive Faye. Faye realized her mistake and apologized because she realized she did need enjoy Silque's company. imo, Faye "crawling back" to Silque is even better because it shows that Faye was able to admit she was wrong. She realized "wow, my life really does suck without (name)", and that, in my opinion, is one of the greatest things someone could ever hear.