Let's clear some things up about Faye

[Armagon]

27 minutes ago, Slumber said:

And don't use Heroes quotes. That stuff isn't canon at all.

I'm using Heroes quotes because, while it isn't canon, it's also our first look at what Faye might be like in the English version of SoV, and Heroes has done a pretty good job of portraying characters. I said this before, but I judge characters based on how they are in the English version. 

 

27 minutes ago, Slumber said:

while her supports with everyone else are hostile or flippant depending on whether she sees them as a threat to her and Alm.

Counterpoint: she does end up becoming friends with Silque in the end, so Faye isn't completely hostile. If anything, it just takes her a while to make friends with anyone who isn't Alm. I would not be surprised if she was also a bit hostile towards the other villagers before eventually becoming friends with them.

 

27 minutes ago, Slumber said:

You can try to reason around this, but with everything else about the game, and the fact that she only has ONE ending(Which happens to be more in-tone with the bad endings of everyone else), I am almost positive that the intention of the ending is to say that Faye's living an unhappy, unfulfilling life.

She's certainly not intended to be portrayed like a good mother/wife.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this then.

 

21 minutes ago, Thunderstar said:

She only mentions this on Revelation. On Birthright, she fails to kill Corrin and tthe Hoshidans twice, she is totally fine and Garon never threatens to execute her or the other siblings at all.

That's more of Fates's story just being a mess at times.

 

21 minutes ago, Thunderstar said:

• Camilla: Oh, I'm so terribly jealous of you all. My dear Avatar chose you. He'll never be our brother/sister again. I'll never get to sing him/her to sleep. We've loved him/her for most of his life, but I guess that wasn't enough in the end... I'll make you pay for taking him/her from us! You'll all die, here and now!
•  
• Camilla: I love you, Avatar. But if you survive long enough to make it all the way up here... I will do what I must and pierce your body with my blade. And then cradle you in my arms...just as I did when you were a child.
•  
• Camilla: Hmm. I see. So you want to come back, but these awful people are still confusing your little head. Don't worry, darling. Big Sister is here to take care of these monsters for you!
•  
• Camilla: Don't worry, Elise. I promise to save our precious Avatar. Once I've killed all his/her friends, he's/she's sure to remember his/her true family. Right? Right!

That's just Camilla being depressed. Elise states states that Camilla became depressed after Corrin joined Hoshido. Camilla just doesn't know anymore.

 

21 minutes ago, Thunderstar said:

Robin seems to be more confortable with her at the end and doesn't even mind anymore to be stalked by her in the S support.

Ok, but S-Supports are a whole different deal. A lot of them just happen out of nowhere.

 

21 minutes ago, Thunderstar said:

The problem is that you're comparing fan translated SoV Faye's supports lines to localized english Tharja and Robin's supports, even though we don't have the english version of SoV yet.

You talked about Faye in Heroes at first then you decided to talk about her in SoV.

That's because there's no English version of SoV yet. I can't just exclusively use Faye's Heroes quotes. Once we get English SoV, i'll be using Faye's English quotes instead.

 

Back to the whole Tharja thing, I did say she was a yandere. However, there are different levels of yandere. Tharja, despite being a yandere, is actually pretty mild for one. I don't like the yandere trope in general, and thus I don't like Tharja, but I will admit that Tharja's yandereness isn't as bad as the other yanderes that exist in fiction.

As for why I find Tharja to be a yandere, but not Camilla, it's mainly because of her Supports with Niles. Camilla isn't just obsessing with Corrin out of nowhere. She's got an actual reason. Meanwhile, Tharja is obsessing over Robin because reasons.

[The Malign Knight]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

And don't use Heroes quotes. That stuff isn't canon at all. She comes off as cheerful in Heroes, but her Alm supports in Echoes explicitly state that she's happy so long as she can be with Alm, and that she can't/won't change, while her supports with everyone else are hostile or flippant depending on whether she sees them as a threat to her and Alm.

Keep in mind that the supports we see in Echoes are directly translated frm Japanese while the Faye we see in heroes is probably the one we'll see in the localized version of Echoes.

[NekoKnight]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

As for why I find Tharja to be a yandere, but not Camilla, it's mainly because of her Supports with Niles. Camilla isn't just obsessing with Corrin out of nowhere. She's got an actual reason. Meanwhile, Tharja is obsessing over Robin because reasons.

Not having a reason for their affections isn't a requirement of being a yandere. Even Yuno (the difinitive yandere character) of Mirai Nikki has an excuse for her attachments to the protagonist. Camilla is probably the straightest example of the trope in Fire Emblem.

[Thunderstar]

 

40 minutes ago, Armagon said:

That's just Camilla being depressed. Elise states states that Camilla became depressed after Corrin joined Hoshido. Camilla just doesn't know anymore.

Like most people, a lot of yanderes can depress as well because of the actions of the character they love.

Kotonoha and Sekai are some of the most known yanderes and they depress as well depending of the MC's actions in the VN/Anime and the manga.

Camilla being depressed don't invalidate her being a yandere. 

54 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Back to the whole Tharja thing, I did say she was a yandere. However, there are different levels of yandere. Tharja, despite being a yandere, is actually pretty mild for one. I don't like the yandere trope in general, and thus I don't like Tharja, but I will admit that Tharja's yandereness isn't as bad as the other yanderes that exist in fiction.

As for why I find Tharja to be a yandere, but not Camilla, it's mainly because of her Supports with Niles. Camilla isn't just obsessing with Corrin out of nowhere. She's got an actual reason. Meanwhile, Tharja is obsessing over Robin because reasons.

I am not sure you know what a yandere means.

Since when a yandere is limited to characters who don't have a reason for loving someone?
Like the other characters, Yanderes can a reason or any reason to love a character.

Yuno Gasai was treated like garbage by her parents during her childhood like Camilla and loves the MC because he was nice to her and comfort her when she was sad.
You might find the reason stupid or whatever, but it is not out of nowhere and she has a reason to love him.
And don't tell me Yuno is not a yandere. Yuno is easily the most known of them.

Also Rhajat is a Tharja clone and she loves Corrin because Corrin saved her life twice (once when she was a kid and the second time when you recruit her).
She has an actual reason to love Corrin.
She's obviously a yandere since she is pretty much Tharja and acts like her.

To me it feels like you don't have a problem with yanderes in general (especially that you don't seem to have a problem with Camilla's creepy behaviour) but more like you don't like characters who love certain people for no reason.
If you still think that she is not one because she has an actual reason to love Corrin (even if, like I already said, yanderes can love someone for an actual reason), then let's just agree to disagree on this then. 

But yeah thank god, they are less worse than some others or else we woudn't have anyone anymore in the armies.

 

3 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Not having a reason for their affections isn't a requirement of being a yandere. Even Yuno (the difinitive yandere character) of Mirai Nikki has an excuse for her attachments to the protagonist. Camilla is probably the straightest example of the trope in Fire Emblem.

Pretty much this. I don't see why it should be a requirement at all.

[ZoeTrent]

7 hours ago, KliffIsTheOG said:

Given the fact that there are strong women in this game, and in the series (Lyn, Celica, May, the priestesses, etc.) I argue that the writers are not being sexist. Considering the fact that there are women in real life who have these characteristics, would it not be sexist to ONLY include strong women, while ignoring and not representing those who are imperfect? 

There is a difference between strong women, weak willed women, and women that are literally only interested in a guy and nothing else. Faye fit's into the latter category, which is the problem.

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Regarding Heroes, that's probably just showing a bit of what the English version of SoV is gonna do with Faye. Her character is mostly same but toned down a bit. I mentioned it in my first post on this thread.

But like, Berkut is also new. And Linea. And Conrad. And Fernand. And Forenus even though he never actually appears in the game. This actually leads into a point I do want to make: I think Faye can be forgiven. Yes, her character is just "Alm love me pls" but at the end of the day, if she is a bad character, she's just this one little black spot in a good game.

Again, I don't hate Faye, I think she's alright and harmless. But I do see where people are coming from, even if I do feel that they are hating on Faye more than necessary.

I think they might have meant new *female* or playable character (which would be the case for people who don't know about him). Regardless though IS having other good and interesting new characters doesn't excuse Faye. Sure she's only one bad character, but nobody is arguing that all the new SoV chars are terrible as a whole. This is about Faye.

Also someone mentioned Faye is plain compared to Tharja and Camilla. I'd say she has a pretty cute design. She's not a sex appeal character but she is obviously designed to be adorable. She's all pink and cutsy and happy looking. Reminds me of Amy Rose actually. I'd say Tobin or Mozu look like much more plain villagers. Which is fine and make's sense for a villager.

[Armagon]

51 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Not having a reason for their affections isn't a requirement of being a yandere. Even Yuno (the difinitive yandere character) of Mirai Nikki has an excuse for her attachments to the protagonist. Camilla is probably the straightest example of the trope in Fire Emblem.

 

45 minutes ago, Thunderstar said:

 

Like most people, a lot of yanderes can depress as well because of the actions of the character they love.

Kotonoha and Sekai are some of the most known yanderes and they depress as well depending of the MC's actions in the VN/Anime and the manga.

Camilla being depressed don't invalidate her being a yandere. 

I am not sure you know what a yandere means.

Since when a yandere is limited to characters who don't have a reason for loving someone?
Like the other characters, Yanderes can a reason or any reason to love a character.

Yuno Gasai was treated like garbage by her parents during her childhood like Camilla and loves the MC because he was nice to her and comfort her when she was sad.
You might find the reason stupid or whatever, but it is not out of nowhere and she has a reason to love him.
And don't tell me Yuno is not a yandere. Yuno is easily the most known of them.

Also Rhajat is a Tharja clone and she loves Corrin because Corrin saved her life twice (once when she was a kid and the second time when you recruit her).
She has an actual reason to love Corrin.
She's obviously a yandere since she is pretty much Tharja and acts like her.

To me it feels like you don't have a problem with yanderes in general (especially that you don't seem to have a problem with Camilla's creepy behaviour) but more like you don't like characters who love certain people for no reason.
If you still think that she is not one because she has an actual reason to love Corrin (even if, like I already said, yanderes can love someone for an actual reason), then let's just agree to disagree on this then. 

But yeah thank god, they are less worse than some others or else we woudn't have anyone anymore in the armies.

 

Pretty much this. I don't see why it should be a requirement at all.

Interesting. See, the thing is that i've heard so many definitons of what yandere is, that I don't know anymore. That's probably the reason why I see Tharja as one but not Camilla. 

But we can all agree that Tharja is a stalker, right? Because that's what Tharja does, but not Camilla and Faye.

I usually see the stalker trait as being part of the yandere trope but that also depends on other things as well.

5 minutes ago, ZoeTrent said:

Regardless though IS having other good and interesting new characters doesn't excuse Faye. 

Maybe it's because of my forgiving and tolerant nature, but i certainly would forgive Faye.

[ZoeTrent]

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

 

Interesting. See, the thing is that i've heard so many definitons of what yandere is, that I don't know anymore. That's probably the reason why I see Tharja as one but not Camilla. 

But we can all agree that Tharja is a stalker, right? Because that's what Tharja does, but not Camilla and Faye.

I usually see the stalker trait as being part of the yandere trope but that also depends on other things as well.

Maybe it's because of my forgiving and tolerant nature, but i certainly would forgive Faye.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Yandere The first part should be all you really need. If they have a violent, unhealthy, or downright crazy attachment then they fit.

And I meant it doesn't excuse her as a character not a person. For the record, I don't hate Faye. I just hate how she is written. I don't think it's her fault she is a badly written character though.

[Extrasolar]

I've only read a few bits of the translated Faye's supports and conversations from the Japanese version of Echoes so I'm by no means an expert on how Faye is portrayed 100% in the Japanese version of Echoes, but speaking of what I know from my 5* Faye in Heroes, while she does mention Alm a lot, like people have said, she seems to have concerns other than him (she mentions liking to pick flowers and whatnot, she mentions she wants to get better with the bow, she says she wants to get strong for others as well as Alm, etc.). People have told me the bow quote in general was a rewrite to be less Alm centric as well. I'll agree with the people that say that it seems like we'll be getting a toned-down version of Faye in the localization, if Heroes is an indication.

From what I've seen, while Faye's archetype is definitely tiresome and I do wish she would stand on her own as a character with strong interests past Alm, she's a lot less offensive in the way she's portrayed than Tharja and Camilla in my opinion. I'm not going to deny that part of it is due to the fact that Faye isn't played for transparent and shameless fanservice the way that Camilla and (to a lesser extent) Tharja are. Faye's design is made to be endearing and sweet, rather than sexy...which, when taking into account that the characters the former two fawn over are meant to be stand-ins for the player makes it all the worse in their case in my opinion.

Like people have said, Faye's crush/obsession with Alm is played as a very strong, and somewhat childish infatuation and crush, rather than Tharja's "I'll hex/curse people that get close to you" and Camilla's "I'll kill people that threaten you." Tharja being an abusive mother and Camilla being bloodthirsty and uncaring of anyone past her beloved inner circle makes them worse. (And Rhajat is Tharja 2.0, with all of what that implies...except with all of her worst traits played up even more. Eugh.)

Rudeness and insensitivity toward some of the non-Alm people reaching out to her (speaking of the Silque conversation in particular), as well as some selfish and ignorant actions (her not caring that her family wants her to write about how she's doing rather than Alm), and general disregard for the situation during Alm and Celica's disagreement is the extent of her crimes, as far as I know. Faye is a deeply flawed character, true.

Can I see why people would dislike her, and why she's a controversial character? Definitely. But I'm neutral-ish on her at the moment. Wish she had more solo development, but she definitely grinds my gears less than Tharja and Camilla did. If they wanted to go with another "obsesses over the object of their affections to the detriment of everything else" character (which, yeah, I wish they'd stop doing already), Faye seems to be by far the least obnoxiously written (and by far the best designed...) of them.

In a way, I sort of like Faye as a role. For every person that gets past their unrequited crush and moves on to find peace with themselves and even happiness, there are plenty of people that never move on. That stay in the same place they've been, and never learn. They never find fulfillment or happiness. Faye is one of those, as it seems. It's almost tragic, that she refuses to see past her Alm bubble. Not everyone has a happy ending, after all.

Of course, all of this could change after I actually play the game in a month and read all of her dialogue, supports and base conversations in the localization. We'll see what happens.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Zapp Branniglenn]

hunh? So she's the next one? Okay, should be an easy switch to make once the game releases. Let me just take down this banner here...

#MaeisBae

#FayeisBaye

Alright, thanks for the heads up, fam.

[Armagon]

43 minutes ago, ZoeTrent said:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Yandere The first part should be all you really need. If they have a violent, unhealthy, or downright crazy attachment then they fit.

So Tharja is definitly a yandere then, going by that definition. And then Camilla is somewhat of a yandere, and Faye isn't one at all.

18 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

 as well as some selfish and ignorant actions (her not caring that her family wants her to write about how she's doing rather than Alm), and general disregard for the situation during Alm and Celica's disagreement is the extent of her crimes, as far as I know. Faye is a deeply flawed character, true.
 

Regarding those two things, i feel that Faye just doesn't realize the things she says and does may have a negative impact. While she doesn't care that her parents want her to write about herself, she also shows that she still cares about them. And then, there's her general disregard for the situation during Alm and Celica's argument. There, I feel that Faye was trying to cheer Alm up. Like, maybe it's just me, but i detected a genuine attempt to cheer him up. The problem there is that Faye doesn't realize that what she said can come off as rude. In that Base Conversation, she basically had the "its the thought that counts" mentality.

4 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

hunh? So she's the next one? Okay, should be an easy switch to make once the game releases. Let me just take down this banner here...

#MaeisBae

#FayeisBaye

Alright, thanks for the heads up, fam.

What?

[Nihilzar]

8 hours ago, KliffIsTheOG said:

A very good example of argumentation finesse. Rather than being mature and providing a respectful counter-argument, they instead decide to make fun of their discussion partner. This is a sure-fire way to convince the other person that they are wrong!  Another thing to notice is that the substance of your counter argument is, and I quote, "no it wouldn't be". Because you provide nothing of substance to support that claim, it holds no value. Please be more conscientious of your actions in the future.

For the sake of argumentation, let us look to the dictionary to see the definition of sexism: "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex." Let's break it down in how it relates to Faye and Camilla.

Prejudice is, according to the dictionary, "a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience." The defining characteristic of Faye is that she pines for Alm. Because there are females who have crushes and pine for people, this is a character that can be based on reason or actual experience, and is thus not prejudiced. Now, let us look at Camilla. The main reason that people say that Camilla is sexist id due to her fanservice nature. Is it prejudiced? No. Due to the fact there are conventionally attractive and shallow women in real life, and the game does not imply that all women are like Camilla, it is not prejudiced.

Stereotyping is, according to the dictionary, "a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing." Faye and Camilla are not stereotyped because there are other women in their same games who do not share the undesirable characteristics of obsessive love, and physical appearance (Celica, Tatianna, Sonia, Delthea, Silk, May, Peri, Beruka, Setsuna, Reina, Severa, etc.).

Discrimination, again, according to the dictionary is, "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex." Are Faye and Camilla discriminatory to women? No, because their "category of people" (women) are not receiving prejudiced treatment based upon their category, as shown by the other women in their own games (the aforementioned Celica, Tatianna, Sonia, Delthea, Silk, May, Peri, Beruka, Setsuna, Reina, Severa, etc.).

I have just systematically laid out why your argument that the writers are sexist is invalid. If you would like to counter-argue, feel free to do it in a mature fashion.

 

Thank you.

You saved me the trouble of answering that stupid quote.

[Mackc2]

4 hours ago, Armagon said:

Meanwhile, Tharja is obsessing over Robin because reasons.

I have no idea where i got this notion but i always thought she was attracted to robin by "The darkness in his heart"
 

Spoiler

aka the Fell Dragon Grima

 

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, Mackc2 said:

I have no idea where i got this notion but i always thought she was attracted to robin by "The darkness in his heart"
 

  Hide contents

aka the Fell Dragon Grima

 

That could be a reason but Tharja never really cared about all that Grimleal stuff. In fact, none of the Plegians you recruit do. Not even Gangrel and Aversa, though the latter was part of the Grimleal until she found out the truth about her past.

[Hasnbaakoajsbakaiaja]

Wow. Keep up to good discussions people. I always love threads like these. I hope I at least got Faye's representation to be a little bit better respected than Camilla and Tharja. 

[Troykv]

I love this kind of conversations, I love to know about your opinion with the new gal...

Personally...  I found her design lovely, and her character... a little bit crazy but really cute....but in the other hand... I would like to be able to like her without feeling like an apologist

[Tamanoir]

5 hours ago, Armagon said:

But we can all agree that Tharja is a stalker, right? Because that's what Tharja does, but not Camilla and Faye.

I usually see the stalker trait as being part of the yandere trope but that also depends on other things as well.

It's not stalking, it's Deep Love.

But you know, I think the fact that Faye, Camilla and Tharja gets so many hated discussion about them is really a good thing. I can't form a strong opinion about her (see you next month for that), but I'm glad those points are brought up.

[Silverdawn77]

im prolly gonna say things others have touched on but i can't help but put my 2 cents in on this. i agree with the OP alot, she clearly is meant as a foil to Celica and what she represented. the most blatant in my mind is she is a peasant girl and celica is a princess. alm choosing celica IS meant as a sort of growth and if he stayed with faye he would be backtracking. i don't see her as a yandere at all, just because she is clingy and can be a little bitchy doesnt make her a yandere, she is clearly sane just immature. i also don't think this is sexist at all. not one bit. like come on guys really? they write a character you don't like so we are gonna call it sexist? grow up. not every woman in real life is a good person, so why should all characters in a game be good, people have flaws. and sorry, but some women's lives revolve around her significant other, like some men's lives do, it happens. saying something like this is sexist just dilutes the word so real sexist shit doesnt get pointed out. i don't like the if i don't like it its bad writing train of thought, and is she the BEST written character in this game? hell no, but i wouldnt call her badly writen, its cliche, but nowadays ''new'' ideas are either really hard to come up with or just a fresh coat of paint on an old one. 

i also don't get why liking her would make anyone an apologist for anything...., sorry i just didnt expect SJW terms to spring up here... must admit im kinda salty :/

[JJ48]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 3:01 AM, warchiefwilliams said:

("I swear officer, I do not know why that person got caught in the trebuchet's firing mechanism. No I don't know why they dove in head first")

That's horrible!  Do you have any idea how expensive and time-consuming it is to repair a trebuchet?!

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 1:02 PM, KliffIsTheOG said:

Given the fact that there are strong women in this game, and in the series (Lyn, Celica, May, the priestesses, etc.) I argue that the writers are not being sexist. Considering the fact that there are women in real life who have these characteristics, would it not be sexist to ONLY include strong women, while ignoring and not representing those who are imperfect? 

Can someone who's played more of the games than I have tell me if we've ever seen a male example of the obsessive, unrequited crush?  From what I've seen, it seems we mostly have females with that trait, while males are more likely to just be general womanizers (not necessarily focusing on one woman in particular).

Also, I can't speak to whether or not it would be sexist, but it would certainly be poor writing and boring to only have strong-personality characters...

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

Can someone who's played more of the games than I have tell me if we've ever seen a male example of the obsessive, unrequited crush? 

I don't think we have. But that's a thing in anime in general. Although in anime, it's usually reserved for the creepy, sometimes possibly drunk, antagonist.

Yeah, for the guys, it's usually them just flirting with every girl they see.

[Salamud]

Women aren't treated as threatening to men. It's not a surprise that whatever character organization Tharja or Camilla or Faye belong to is largely (if not wholly) feminine. 

[Silverdawn77]

3 minutes ago, Salamud said:

Women aren't treated as threatening to men. It's not a surprise that whatever character organization Tharja or Camilla or Faye belong to is largely (if not wholly) feminine. 

i would disagree. certain types of women arent seen as threatening. thats why yanderes are so dangerous in the situations they show up in. they usually all display a cute quiet side that hides the dagger behind your gullibility. the reason i don't think faye is a yandere is because for the most part her cheery cute personality IS her personality, she happens to also be a little ineptly manipulative. where as camilla has both a sweet doting older sister side, but if you side against her or stand between her and corrin she has a much nastier side she has both the YAN and the DERE. tharja is a little less so, she mostly has just batshit crazy. faye never really does anything to show a dangerous kind of clingy like camilla so she doesnt meet the yan part of yandere at all

[Tamanoir]

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

That's horrible!  Do you have any idea how expensive and time-consuming it is to repair a trebuchet?!

Can someone who's played more of the games than I have tell me if we've ever seen a male example of the obsessive, unrequited crush?  From what I've seen, it seems we mostly have females with that trait, while males are more likely to just be general womanizers (not necessarily focusing on one woman in particular).

Also, I can't speak to whether or not it would be sexist, but it would certainly be poor writing and boring to only have strong-personality characters...

Well... Oliver would be the ones who qualifies the most, even if it's mostly towards the heron tribe in general, and not really one in particular.

Olson kinda became this as well, depending how you're taking it.

EDIT : Actually, the thing that coems closer to the archetype around men is the loyal knight, like Kent or Geoffrey. But that's still pretty diffferent.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Tamanoir

[Extrasolar]

On 4/16/2017 at 7:01 PM, Armagon said:

Regarding those two things, i feel that Faye just doesn't realize the things she says and does may have a negative impact. While she doesn't care that her parents want her to write about herself, she also shows that she still cares about them. And then, there's her general disregard for the situation during Alm and Celica's argument. There, I feel that Faye was trying to cheer Alm up. Like, maybe it's just me, but i detected a genuine attempt to cheer him up. The problem there is that Faye doesn't realize that what she said can come off as rude. In that Base Conversation, she basically had the "its the thought that counts" mentality.

Hmm, this could be true too. Faye does seem to be a little stuck in her own world and unable to see past it. Her thought process is rather self-centered. One of Faye's biggest qualities, it seems, is her being childish - she's interested in what she's interested in, has little patience for anything else, and is unable to let go of what she wants (even when he's out of her reach) and move on.

But it's a thin line between subtly manipulative and just plain ignorant of one's potential meanings and/or the feelings of others, and I'm not quite sure where Faye falls.

She does show indications every now and then that she's sweet and kind (or at least capable of being civil) deep down to non-Alm people, but I don't necessarily see her as trying to cheer Alm up in that situation specifically. She knows that his argument with Celica is stressing him out, to say nothing of the war itself, but what what she said boils down to "Celica doesn't understand you like I do," basically trying to make Alm kick Celica to the curb and run to her. I don't know, maybe it's her own childish way of trying to make him feel better and nothing else, but it does seem like she has ulterior motives at times. I'm not saying your interpretation of it is wrong, just that I see it as a little different.

39 minutes ago, Tamanoir said:

Actually, the thing that coems closer to the archetype around men is the loyal knight, like Kent or Geoffrey. But that's still pretty diffferent.

Geoffrey's crush isn't necessarily unrequited; Elincia and Geoffrey have a paired ending in Radiant Dawn should they get a max support.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Armagon]

So, regarding Faye's ending, there is another translation

Spoiler

"She returned to her village and went back to her old life, but was unable to forget Alm. Men(/a man) who were fine with that enthusiastically pursued her but she unexpectedly disappeared sometimes, worrying her family."

In this version of the ending, the implication is that Faye doesn't get married. The temporary unexpected disappearances could be a result of her trying to get away from all the men that want to marry her. Basically, her way of disappearing is her way of saying "not interested". 

Regardless of the version of the ending, I still don't believe that Faye leads a truly unhappy life because how cheerful and childish she can be. 

 

[Cute Chao]

8 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Geoffrey's crush isn't necessarily unrequited; Elincia and Geoffrey have a paired ending in Radiant Dawn should they get a max support.

Same with Kent and Lyn. 

Plus, with both of those, they have things outside of the female as part of their character. Geoffrey cares deeply for his knights and his sister. Kent is pretty much the same, minus the sister, plus can have paired endings with other females. You can argue that his endings mention he stayed until Lyn abdicated before he moved to live with his wife, but that can be argued more a love for the country/knights he commands, especially since his unpaired ending only mentions the knights and nothing about Lyn ^.^'' 

Overall, I don't like Faye's onetrack note from the translations so far. I really hope it does get toned down and she gets more character added in the translation, but I'm not hopeful. I'm just so bored of this character archetype for women, especially when it seems to become their sole thing. I agree with the arguments here - it'd be nice to actually see her grow up and realise she needs to work over her crush, but she just stays fawning over him until the end. It's just not a character I'm going to like if that's the case :/