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FE Fandom listed 4th worst video game community


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4 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Serenes is one of the least toxic internet communities I've ever been a part of. How often does a thread get locked because people are being shitty to each other? Sounds to me that some people equate "divisive opinons" to "toxicity".

OH, right, I keep forgetting to close all threads that disagree with my personal opinion, while banning people because my cereal said to. :P:

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The FE community here has calmed down, NOW.  But it wasn't always like this. . .I still have bad memories of "THAT'S NOT THE SMT x FE WE WERE PROMISED!".

For those of you that are newer, and missed the hell that was the timeline to Awakening's release/Fates' skinshipping and other nonsense/TMS#FE's reveal/LTC tier list arguments, please take the time to dig WAY back and read.  Don't post, just read. . .and see how the fandom has changed.  The FE fandom has had its moments.  From your descriptions, it sounds like the guy who made the video took a look at the community four years back, then didn't bother to update his views.

And last but not least, no matter how much you want to facepalm at (insert other community here), keep it civil.

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7 minutes ago, eclipse said:

OH, right, I keep forgetting to close all threads that disagree with my personal opinion, while banning people because my cereal said to. :P:

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The FE community here has calmed down, NOW.  But it wasn't always like this. . .I still have bad memories of "THAT'S NOT THE SMT x FE WE WERE PROMISED!".

For those of you that are newer, and missed the hell that was the timeline to Awakening's release/Fates' skinshipping and other nonsense/TMS#FE's reveal/LTC tier list arguments, please take the time to dig WAY back and read.  Don't post, just read. . .and see how the fandom has changed.  The FE fandom has had its moments.  From your descriptions, it sounds like the guy who made the video took a look at the community four years back, then didn't bother to update his views.

And last but not least, no matter how much you want to facepalm at (insert other community here), keep it civil.

Pretty much this.  People saying the FE fandom isn't so bad are clearly not remembering all of the controversy over skinshipping and stuff like the Soleil/M!Corrin supports and then the following controversy when Nintendo of America listened to what fans were saying and did something about it (and also screwed many things up, but let's not get into that) and people screamed "zomg, censorship and teh essjaydubbleyooos"

Hell, I had to book it out of the Fire Emblem Facebook group because it got so damn toxic.

Serenes is an oasis in the middle of a desert.  It's not a very nice desert either.

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We're number four!  We're number four!  We had a good run, and I'm sure you all tried your best this season.  Maybe next year we can actually reach the top spot!

Seriously, though, I was briefly a part of the Clash Royale community when some folks were actually claiming that their purpose in playing the game was to upset others.  To them, it wasn't just about winning; it was about winning and rubbing your win in the opponent's face.  Compared to that, this community is about as toxic as distilled water.

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9 hours ago, Slumber said:

Kingdom Hearts and Sonic also should be up there

Eh, I lurked the major KH fan forums and most there, while obviously major fans, were also pretty self-aware and chill.
The Halo fandom, on the other hand... if you don't worship Halo 3 as the best thing ever and have a hateboner for everything 343 does, then you're in the minority. That's a fandom that I was fairly active in for some time before finally quitting because the official forums were mostly just non-stop complaints and trolling.

4 hours ago, eclipse said:

For those of you that are newer, and missed the hell that was the timeline to Awakening's release/Fates' skinshipping and other nonsense/TMS#FE's reveal/LTC tier list arguments, please take the time to dig WAY back and read.  Don't post, just read. . .and see how the fandom has changed.  The FE fandom has had its moments.  From your descriptions, it sounds like the guy who made the video took a look at the community four years back, then didn't bother to update his views.

Heard about Awakening's release, partook in but quickly became tired of the skinship nonsense, still personally a bit bumbed over TMS#FE, and know LTC arguments have pretty much gone the way of the dinosaurs.
Oh, and you forgot Corrin's Smash announcement.

Yeah, there have been some moments of major uproar, but so have there been in every fandom. Stuff like

4 hours ago, The Geek said:

the Soleil/M!Corrin supports and then the following controversy

were an overall drop in the bucket.
I've had for more negative experiences with newer fans than older ones; heck, the subreddit has even begun to moderate (though it has it's share of cynical assholes clinging to any and all negatives about the newer games). There's a lot of shit, but it's the internet-- there's going to be a lot of shit in any moderately large fandom. There's been a lot less shit than in other fandoms, and I'm happy for that.

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Despite the oddities of this fandom (check Google+ that has some quality wierd things.) it really isn't half bad. And I know someone in the FNAF fandom, and I'm not knocking her, just all she does is make mary sues. And sometimes I'm thinking that Corrin is a better character. Being in the Undertale fandom as well (mainly for the really good stuff.) I've seen some quality cancer, like Frisk.... you know what, I'm not mentioning the skeleton in my closet. 

The whole Pre-Awakening and Awakening split to me, it's all opinion. I started with Awakening, and I'm trying to play Blazing Sword/Blazing Blade atm so not all 3ds fans are crazy. 

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As far as toxicity among FE fans go, I have not seen much of that here (other than a couple or so posts).

I have however seen it in other places where FE fans gather. However, there are definitely a lot of other fandoms that I would put above Fire Emblem fans when it comes to horrible videogame fandoms as it's nowhere near my Top 10 worst.

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I was here for the Fates shitstorm, you can find some of my posts calling what Nintendo of America did, long before it happened. There are also posts telling me that I'm both wrong and don't know what I'm doing. Those same people would pretend later on that they always knew it was going to be like that. I coined the phrase, "Pattern recognition is a super power." Fates and SMTxFE were why I was so pessimistic about Echoes ever having a chance to do well(I think Faye hasn't got a snowball's chance in the magma chamber of a volcano with the fandom because of her design, but that's neither here nor there), but after seeing that the fandom has calmed down significantly, I've become less... pessimistic, but certainly not more optimistic. For me, Echoes is a wait and see for now.

 

I'll wait to see the reception before I make a judgment call on it other than it'll be somewhat divisive(Which isn't inherently a bad thing. Most people treat it like a bad thing, but differing opinions is not inherently bad. It's when conflict arises from those opinions), being a remake of gaiden and all which is already a divisive game. Generally, you either like gaiden or you don't. Generally that's the opinion I've seen and I believe at this point Echoes will fare the same.

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Huh... Well, way back in the pre-Awakening days, I never thought I'd see the FE fandom on any lists of anything, just because it was so comparatively small. It's good that we're finally getting at least some recognition. What is it that people say? There's no such thing as bad publicity?

On a more serious note, though, I can't be the one one that thinks the the FE community has apparently garnered a reputation for being "toxic" because of the huge, huge divide between elitists of the older games that despise anything new, or those veterans that hate the influx of newer fans of Awakening, and to a lesser extent Fates. (Not saying there aren't people on the opposite side, that despise or criticize the older games simply for being older and not having 3DS mechanics/design choices, but from what I've experienced the former is more prevalent.)

Whereas from my experience most FE fans are pretty chill, even if they disagree on things or they have a strong preference for the older games or the newer games, I imagine that for someone outside of the FE fandom who only knows of FE through the huge popularity of Awakening and Fates (and Heroes, to an extent), the divide and heated internet arguments over this stuff are the most visible things.. Also not saying that there's anything wrong with critiquing or disliking things about the 3DS games, but as people have mentioned and seen on this forum and elsewhere, they're often targeted disproportionately in comparison to the newer games.

There has been many a flame war over the 3DS games' design choices, game mechanics, stories, characters, and most everything else, to the point that someone criticizing, for example, Fates Conquest's story has become a running joke by now. Not that it doesn't deserve to be criticized, but you get my point

And as was mentioned earlier, the Soleil controversy and the massive, massive shitstorm regarding Fates' localization certainly didn't help matters. And with the whole huge controversy surrounding Faye, though it hasn't escalated to those levels quite yet, one can only imagine a similar thing happening.

Edited by Extrasolar
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I remember back when FE Heroes was first announced. Like, the very first announcment. It was on the news page of SerenesForest and I went into the comments of that and.......it wasn't pretty. People were not happy. I guess people thought it would be another generic pay-to-win mobile game but man, those comments. 

Fast foward to now though and everybody is enjoying Heroes. And that's good. 

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12 hours ago, Armagon said:

I remember back when FE Heroes was first announced. Like, the very first announcment. It was on the news page of SerenesForest and I went into the comments of that and.......it wasn't pretty. People were not happy. I guess people thought it would be another generic pay-to-win mobile game but man, those comments. 

Fast foward to now though and everybody is enjoying Heroes. And that's good. 

People jump to conclusions, news at 11.

Trust me when I say that TMS#FE was MUCH worse.  Heroes was outright tame compared to that.

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7 hours ago, eclipse said:

People jump to conclusions, news at 11.

Trust me when I say that TMS#FE was MUCH worse.  Heroes was outright tame compared to that.

I mean, tms is literally the last thing one would expect from a fe and smt crossover, and it was also completely different from what was shown in the announcement clip. As a fan of smt and fe, what it ended up being was certainly disappointing, no matter how good the game is (and it's probably great!). I don't think it's fair to blame people for being disappointed with it. I actually haven't gotten it yet due to how it looks, but had it been a legitimate smt x fe crossover it would have been a month one purchase for me.

i do plan on getting it eventually though, since i'm really liking persona 5 and realized the more animu atlus games are also great.

20 hours ago, Armagon said:

I remember back when FE Heroes was first announced. Like, the very first announcment. It was on the news page of SerenesForest and I went into the comments of that and.......it wasn't pretty. People were not happy. I guess people thought it would be another generic pay-to-win mobile game but man, those comments. 

Fast foward to now though and everybody is enjoying Heroes. And that's good. 

We didn't get a pay to win game. Instead we got a pay to maybe get the unit you want game!

While, i'm half serious, i understand why they went with heroes, since that's what makes them the most money, and nintendo is a business that needs money to survive and it's 200% rational for them to go with an money grabbing mobile game, but still, i'd be lying if i said heroes didn't disappoint me. I used to emulate the gba games on my phone, and when fe heroes was announced, that's what i expected; a regular fire emblem game, maybe a bit simpler, but still with the same sort of gameplay, but instead IMO heroes is a simple game with 8x6 maps without much thoughts put into them that is just repetitive and not much fun to play. So yeah, what happened to me was exactly the opposite of your post. There's nothing wrong with voicing your skepticism about something, as long as you're respectful and reasonable. There was nothing wrong with voicing pessimism when heroes was first announced. Had i been pessimistic back then, i would have guessed how i feel about that game right.

Edited by Nobody
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Since the other topic's closed, I'm going to transplant what I said there to here.

Quote

I love how everyone says, "No, because other fandoms are worse." That's the equivalent of walking outside to see your neighbor's house on fire and then walking into your house that's falling apart and thinking, "Well this house is good because it's not on fire." 

 

Also before the vocal minority card comes into play. Any value that lies between 0% and 50% of a group when split into two different groups is a minority. And that even 10% of 25,000 people is 2,500. Which is more people than you will probably meet face to face in your lifetime. Think about that for a second.

The two most common excuses I see is, "Well because someone else is worse, this means we're not bad." and "Well, it's just a vocal minority." Both are poor excuses to not be introspective.

 

Also more mathematics. If we were to take the Fire emblem community and split it between a majority and a minority, only two groups. Any value over 50% but under 100% is a majority. Any value over 0%, but over 50% is a minority. To use Serenes alone as an example with 25,842 members. A minority can lie anywhere between 1 and 12,920. Where as a majority can lie anywhere between 12,922 to 25,841. If we were to assume that every copy of fates as a unique purchase of a fan of fire emblem, that's 1.85 million people. Even only 10% of that is 185,000 which is not a small number by any stretch of the imagination.

 

But why don't we use the more likely to be accurate to the size of the fandom, Awakening number. 2.05 million. Assuming it's 2,050,000(It's slightly higher, but for argument sake rounding it down to 2.05 mil), A majority can be as small as 1,025,001, while a minority can be as large as 1,024,999. And even if you were to try the 10% argument, you still get 205,000(Which is a larger group than the group of people that bought New Mystery of the Emblem) people, which is still a large number of people. Just for reference, most people here haven't seen more than 2,000 people gathered in the same place at once in person.

 

The tl;dr version? Just because something's worse doesn't make you not bad anymore and learn what the actual definition of a majority is.

Edited by Thran Starcrod
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On 4/17/2017 at 10:02 PM, Slumber said:

As a part of the Souls fandom, that one actually deserves to be high up on lists like this. Definitely higher than FE.

If you even hint that you got some enjoyment out of Dark Souls 2, you'll get about 8 different people jumping down your throat, saying the game was always trash and irredeemable. And anyone who doesn't like the games at all, or doesn't want to even try them out because of the difficulty will just be told to "get gud" a billion times before somebody actually stops and breaks down what's good about the franchise beyond just the difficulty.

Kingdom Hearts and Sonic also should be up there, just because while those fandoms aren't hostile and toxic(Most of the time)... their "weirdness" and rabidness oozes out into so many corners of the internet.

Agreed, Dark Souls as a whole is the worst community when compared to Fire Emblem. The amount of times someone asks for help with defeating an area, and all they get is "git gud, git gud, git gud" 50 times over, is ridiculous. Dark Souls is not at all newbie friendly when it comes to the community. Fire Emblem on the other hand, I see plenty people giving tips, recommendations, and ideas for new players. Very few times do I see an asshole try to say something stupid and "elitist", but they are typically either ignored or downvoted all to hell so you cant see the comment anyways.

 

Now I do think the FE community complains and whines too much. Complaints about Fates were completely ok, and many had valid complaints, the first time they were brought up. But still complaining about it a year later like it just happened? That gets a little annoying. But give Fates another couple of years and most will probably come around to saying its OK. Similar to what happened to Awakening. And Radiant Dawn. Around the time a new Fire Emblem game comes out for us to complain and bitch about we forget about the previous one. But until that point its unrelenting complaining and whining about whatever the new FE did wrong.

That is the only thing with the FE community that I think is bad though. Otherwise the complaints about us are generally exaggerated. I can think of only 2-3 people across Serenes and Reddit as a whole that can be considered "elitist", and as I said they are typically downvoted all to hell in reddit so you cant see their stupidity anyways.

Edited by Tolvir
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1 hour ago, Nobody said:

I mean, tms is literally the last thing one would expect from a fe and smt crossover, and it was also completely different from what was shown in the announcement clip. As a fan of smt and fe, what it ended up being was certainly disappointing, no matter how good the game is (and it's probably great!). I don't think it's fair to blame people for being disappointed with it. I actually haven't gotten it yet due to how it looks, but had it been a legitimate smt x fe crossover it would have been a month one purchase for me.

i do plan on getting it eventually though, since i'm really liking persona 5 and realized the more animu atlus games are also great.

I have no issues with people not wanting to play TMS#FE due to how it looks. That's understandable. What I take issue with is people coming into the TMS sub-forum and basically doing random shitposting bashing the game (without having played it) and insulting those who played it by calling them "Lowest Common Denominator" or some shit.

If that's the stuff that contributed to us being seen as #4 Worst Gaming community, I can't say I blame those who thought so.

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1 hour ago, Jave said:

I have no issues with people not wanting to play TMS#FE due to how it looks. That's understandable. What I take issue with is people coming into the TMS sub-forum and basically doing random shitposting bashing the game (without having played it) and insulting those who played it by calling them "Lowest Common Denominator" or some shit.

If that's the stuff that contributed to us being seen as #4 Worst Gaming community, I can't say I blame those who thought so.

Like what people did with Fates and Awakening.

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On 04/17/2017 at 8:12 PM, Thran Starcrod said:

First impressions are everything for damn near everyone. My first impression was a good one, someone else's might not. And it's not too difficult to find a bad first impression, even on serenes. And before that gets assumed. I'm talking about clicking a mouse through menus. Not like, it gets thrown in their face. Some effort has to be put into it. But... it ain't much in the grand scheme of things.

We have always been a niche community. Awakening changed that.

People are toxic with change.

Looking at Zelda in general, parts of our community exhibit those same qualities.

The difference is, they have experience with mainstream.

Honestly, just ignore both sides. We already know about toxic people on GameFAQs, 4chan, and Youtube.

This video is just clickbait.

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I've been pretty happy during my time as part of the FE community. I haven't seen much toxic behaviour, or I have forgotten when it happens. 

I still hate to see the elitist comments about the newer games, though. I've seen several comments saying they'd wished FE had been cancelled since the games were so bad, blah, blah, blah. Things like that do annoy me, since the newer games saved the series I love, even if they added some different things (eh, I enjoy them). That sets my teeth a little, but I'd say it's more of an irritant than actual toxicity. 

Also, I don't know what people expected from SMT vs FE (I honestly didn't know what to expect when it was announced), but it's the only game that keeps my wii u in use xD I play SMT, Persona and FE, and I love them all. I love TMS for its own reasons, too. I've not seen much bashing on that, but then I haven't gone looking and haven't lurked much in the forums, so maybe I'm just skipping out on some of the worst parts?

Overall, I'd like to see less bashing on the new games (honest opinions as to why you dislike or what you want changed, sure, but just outright 'cancel it'... no), but otherwise, I'm happy with the community, here are least, personally ^.^ 

 

(Also, any community that just says 'git good' can git stuffed. It's the stupidest 'advice' ever and should be banned. Tell the person how to 'git good', like I've seen a lot of people doing very helpfully in several forums on here, particularly for Heroes. Any fandom that doesn't help doesn't deserve fans -.- )

Edited by Cute Chao
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On 4/18/2017 at 8:14 AM, NekoKnight said:

Serenes is one of the least toxic internet communities I've ever been a part of. How often does a thread get locked because people are being shitty to each other? Sounds to me that some people equate "divisive opinons" to "toxicity".

Yep. Too many equate their favourite game being heavily criticised as the community being toxic.

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OP, you are starting to sound like one of those "toxic" people you seem to love complaining about.

If you want the fanbase to stop acting so "toxic", then leading by example is a good thing. Also, why do you even care so much?

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To be fair, OP, you started this thread by linking a list of "Top 10 worst fandoms." In any discussion of a list, comparisons are naturally going to be made, especially by those who disagree with said list's points.

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2 hours ago, Omegaprism said:

To be fair, OP, you started this thread by linking a list of "Top 10 worst fandoms." In any discussion of a list, comparisons are naturally going to be made, especially by those who disagree with said list's points.

I'm fine with that. I'm just saying, "Don't say that you can't be bad just become someone's worse." I'm actually interested in the reasoning of WHY people actually don't see things the same way. It's fine if it's like, "Well, we don't dox people." I get that, it's a good reason. But if it's like, "Well, at least we're not the Dark Souls fandom." That doesn't tell peeps much, ya know?

 

5 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

OP, you are starting to sound like one of those "toxic" people you seem to love complaining about.

If you want the fanbase to stop acting so "toxic", then leading by example is a good thing. Also, why do you even care so much?

Define where. If it was my mathematics that are the problem, my question is why? Why would pointing out a minority can be a larger number than you think is the problem. Notice in my other post I've said, "I'd give Serenes a split of 80% good folk and 20% hostile folk. Keep in mind I wasn't even talking about active members and members that weren't banned.

If it was my comment about Echoes, I wonder why stating that differing opinions isn't inherently a bad thing is toxic. 

If it was mentioning that Fates and Awakening and their fanbases got flamed to the end of the earth and back. It happened, I was there.

Oh and no, I don't love to complain about the toxic elements of the fandom. I much prefer to bring up the unpleasable fans, which are a separate element entirely.

Also if it was telling people that saying you can't be bad just because someone's worse. The main point of that message was to tell people to elaborate on their reasoning. 

Might I recommend you go look in the other topic on this particular topic for my answer on if the community is toxic or not.

 

Quote

Yep. Too many equate their favourite game being heavily criticised as the community being toxic.

I wish I didn't use up my multi-quote when I chose to respond to this. Also sorry for not being able to bold anythin in that. That's not just this fandom. That's pretty much any fandom in a nutshell.

Edited by Thran Starcrod
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5 minutes ago, Thran Starcrod said:

Define where. If it was my mathematics that are the problem, my question is why? Why would pointing out a minority can be a larger number than you think is the problem. Notice in my other post I've said, "I'd give Serenes a split of 80% good folk and 20% hostile folk. Keep in mind I wasn't even talking about active members and members that weren't banned.

If it was my comment about Echoes, I wonder why stating that differing opinions isn't inherently a bad thing is toxic. 

If it was mentioning that Fates and Awakening and their fanbases got flamed to the end of the earth and back. It happened, I was there.

Oh and no, I don't love to complain about the toxic elements of the fandom. I much prefer to bring up the unpleasable fans, which are a separate element entirely.

Also if it was telling people that saying you can't be bad just because someone's worse. The main point of that message was to tell people to elaborate on their reasoning.

How about the fact that you won't stop talking about it? I'm not denying that this fanbase (as well as every other fanbase) has its fair share of terrible fans and people acting unpleasant at a given time. But do you know what I find just as bad as people who complain about stuff? People who complain about other people complaining about stuff, especially if there are no especially active cases of it at the moment. Then it's just complaining about stuff people used to do and acting like it's still current to discredit others. Yes, this fanbase has its bad moments. Yes, some person on youtube put the fanbase as the 4th most toxic. Now here's the all-important question: why do you care whether someone thinks we are a toxic community?

No, seriously. If anything, answer this. Why do you care so much about what one random youtuber has to say about us? Are they some certified expert on all video game communities and their behavior? Does it bother you what random people who don't even know you on the Internet have to think about you? Is there something you stand to lose from people not liking us? Just what is your stake in this?

Also, this sounds pretty snooty to me.

12 hours ago, Thran Starcrod said:

and learn what the actual definition of a majority is.

 

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2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Just what is your stake in this?

As a hypothetical, Fire Emblem could sell poorly enough to stop being made. I like Fire Emblem.

4 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Now here's the all-important question: why do you care whether someone thinks we are a toxic community?

Why do you care about my reasoning for bringing it up. I might have just felt like bringing it up, who knows. Might have felt like discussing it. Who knows.

 

5 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Also, this sounds pretty snooty to me.

Quote

and learn what the actual definition of a majority is.

It wouldn't quote my quote. I admit, that was an arrogant comment. I could've worded it better, I agree and I apologize. I will in the future make an attempt to word things better.

 

3 minutes ago, NoNameAtAll said:

Pretty sure drama and shit existed even as far back as the FESS days. The only difference is that the fanbase has grown so it's more loud.

But I digress.

Sanctuary of Strategy, right? I remember that place. I joined there in 08. 

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4 minutes ago, Thran Starcrod said:

As a hypothetical, Fire Emblem could sell poorly enough to stop being made. I like Fire Emblem.

If a game community having a reputation of being "toxic" meant that sales decreased enough to get the game cancelled, a lot of games that are still ongoing would've been canceled long ago.

5 minutes ago, Thran Starcrod said:

Why do you care about my reasoning for bringing it up. I might have just felt like bringing it up, who knows. Might have felt like discussing it. Who knows.

You posted the thread. Clearly, you have a reasoning for posting the thread, and if you didn't have a purpose for the thread or don't even want to share why, then you shouldn't have posted it in the first place. Also, my question was not "why did you bring it up". It was "why do you care what people who don't know you think about a fanbase you are part of".

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