Next grand hero battle: Zephiel

[Arcanite]

@Ice Dragon Three, count 'em, THREE words:

Spoiler

Suck it, Ice Dragon

Spoiler

I typed out my strategy/play by play in The "Strategists Three Secret Hideout" PM thread (yes that's what we call it), so I can easily quote it for you as my proof

Spoiler

On 4/21/2017 at 1:25 PM, Arcanite said:

Starting positions:

Baby Gurl #1 Oboro (-Spd +Res)/Serra (+Spd -Def)/Jaffar (+Res -Spd)/Seliph (+HP -Res)

Seals:

HP+3 Seal = Seliph (didn't impact at all

Attack+1 Seal = Jaffar (Definitely impacted the Blue mage kill)

Turn 1:

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Player Phase:

Serra moves 2 spaces up.

Jaffar moves left one, up one to be on Serra's South side

Oboro moves 1 space up, on Jaffar's left side

Seliph moves 2 spaces left, on Jaffar's South side

Enemy Phase: --

Turn 2: 

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Player Phase:

Seliph uses Rally Speed on Jaffar (Because he's -Spd which really makes me want to jump off a cliff, but that's an issue for another time)

Jaffar moves right one, up one. This puts him in range of the red mage, which he needs 37 speed to double, rally speed gets him to 39

Oboro stays in the corner

Serra moves to Jaffar's south side (I'm not sure if this impacts the movement of the enemy but yeah)

 

Enemy Phase:

Red mage hits Jaffar for 24 damage, Jaffar counters leaving red mage with 5 health (Jaffar has Hone attack from Serra and the +1 Attack seal which basically turns Armored blow 3 into armored blow 1)

Lance armor doesn't move

Zephiel moves up one

Ax armor swaps with Zephiel

Blue mage moves up one

Turn 3:

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Player phase:

Jaffar kills red mage

Serra heals Jaffar

Oboro does nothing cause she has her loyal subjects do all the work

THIS PART IS A MAJOR KEY

Seliph moves up one (influences blue mage movement)

 

Enemy Phase: 

Lance armor stays in place

Blue mage, Ax armor, and Zephiel all move right one

Turn 4:

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Player Phase:

Seliph moves down one (out of blue mage range)

Jaffar moves left one, down one (Seliph's old spot so Jaffar is in range of Blue mage)

Serra heals Jaffar (now she has her imbue)

Oboro rests like a Queen in the corner

 

Enemy Phase: Blue mage hits Jaffar and Jaffar counters the mage leaving mage with 25 health

Ax moves up one and swaps with mage

Blue armor moves left one

Zephiel chills

Turn 5:

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Player Phase:

Serra moves down one

Jaffar moves right and kills the blue mage

Seliph moves up one (in range of ax armor)

Oboro uses Rally defense on Seliph

 

Enemy Phase:

Ax moves down one and attacks Seliph

Zephiel moves into Ax's old place

Lance Swaps with Zeph

So right now the map looks like

-----------  ZEPH

-----------  LANCE

------------ AX

Oboro     Seliph     Jaffar

                               Serra

After that it gets complicated lol

All I know is, it ended like this:

 

Took 10+ turns (wasn't exactly counting)

The reason why I stopped at that turn is because you can win three different ways after that. 10 was the least that I found ha ha

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Serra was the MVP on this one

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ADORE ME!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Some "minor nitpicks":

Spoiler

 

Now, 3 other people did this challenge, but we were waiting until ALL THREE OF US did it to present our proof.

I think Smoke had some thoughts off of those others that did it (I believe it was LordFrigid, Sozz, and SoySoy).

My idea was set in stone from the beginning, but I messed up and didn't take off rehabiliate off my Serra (I would have done it before everyone heh). Also my Jaffar being -Spd meant I had to use Seliph instead of Selena who i had to take more time to grind up lol

Amphy used a team similar to mine, which I helped him out with (I said he could use Serra but he decided to use Priscilla instead, @Vaximillian that's your baby right?) heh heh (I did really make the suggestion, but I'm just saying this for comfort since my Jaffar being -Spd seriously ticked me off, and could have changed this thing completely)

Also, no repositioning skills OR AoE skills means it was a lot harder for me to do this one hee hee. I probably could do it in less turns, but frankly I don't really care all that much lol

So, Master Sensei Ice Dragon, you impressed?

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Arcanite

[MaskedAmpharos]

@Arcanite I love how yours ended up on a different page lmao

[pianime94]

Up the ante by banning 5*!

[MrSmokestack]

5 minutes ago, pianime94 said:

Up the ante by banning 5*!

Wouldn't make too much of a difference, honestly. Draw Back strats have been shown to be replicated by 3*'s, and the difference between 4 and 5 is only 2 stat points anyway save for a skill or two. It does put a soft ban on 5* exclusives like Jaffar, if that's what you're suggesting, so I can go for that.

[pianime94]

Yeah, I was implying the latter, but it's okay if nobody accepts it tho.

We can save that for Colonel Sanders.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

I'm gonna sue the Strategists Three for S T E A L I N G from me /s

[MrSmokestack]

If anything, the challenge demonstrates that tiers and the divisions between them are practically meaningless, as the Arena meta has nothing to do with clearing content for the main game. Units like Jaffar seem like silly anomalies that are technically "allowed" despite the blatant cheese that comes with using him simply because he's A. It's a good metric to remove the obvious choices for sure--namely Reinhardt, all the popular mages, as well as the Dancers--but I think challenges like this in the future should have a guideline that is more rigidly defined, like

-No Dancer

-No 5* units

-No Skill Inheritance / Merges

-No Positioning Assists

-No Mages / Effective Damage / Anything that makes the map vulnerable to cheese

It's been pretty fun crafting strategies and following this thread for the past couple of days, though, so I'm fine with it personally.

Edited April 22, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Arcanite]

13 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I'm gonna sue the Strategists Three for S T E A L I N G from me /s

I had my idea before you even thought about doing this.

So shut up, and be happy for me

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

9 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

If anything, the challenge demonstrates that tiers and the divisions between them are practically meaningless, as the Arena meta has nothing to do with clearing content for the main game. Units like Jaffar seem like silly anomalies that are technically "allowed" despite the blatant cheese that comes with using him simply because he's A. It's a good metric to remove the obvious choices for sure--namely Reinhardt, all the popular mages, as well as the Dancers--but I think challenges like this in the future should have a guideline that is more rigidly defined, like

-No Dancer

-No 5* units

-No Skill Inheritance / Merges

-No Positioning Assists

-No Mages / Effective Damage / Anything that makes the map vulnerable to cheese

It's been pretty fun crafting strategies and following this thread for the past couple of days, though, so I'm fine with it personally.

No Dancer and no inheritance should ne staples, but I think the rest should be optional. Maybe instead of no 5* units, have a 5* limit.

[MrSmokestack]

1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

No Dancer and no inheritance should ne staples, but I think the rest should be optional. Maybe instead of no 5* units, have a 5* limit.

For sure, the other "restrictions" are going to be more or less map-dependent. I can't say the same for a 5* limit, though, since the main difference between a 4 and a 5 is all of +2 in all stats along with a few extra skills that might indirectly affect a unit's Atk rating. If a strategy can be replicated by a unit of a lower* rating without affecting the turn count, it should be fine to use the 5* especially if +/- stats play a role and the person lacks the 4* alternative. No 5* exclusives is as far as I'd go personally.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

20 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

For sure, the other "restrictions" are going to be more or less map-dependent. I can't say the same for a 5* limit, though, since the main difference between a 4 and a 5 is all of +2 in all stats along with a few extra skills that might indirectly affect a unit's Atk rating. If a strategy can be replicated by a unit of a lower* rating without affecting the turn count, it should be fine to use the 5* especially if +/- stats play a role and the person lacks the 4* alternative. No 5* exclusives is as far as I'd go personally.

Oh, I was just saying that I didn't want "no 5*s at all". That makes it too annoying.

[Ice Dragon]

4 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

So, after two days' worth of grinding and heated discussion, the Strategists Three have come to present you with our results, @Ice Dragon.

Five others managed to finish the challenge before we did, though. Congratulations @SatsumaFSoysoy, @LordFrigid and @wizzard of soz! Your runs gave us quite a few ideas to work with in making our own.

Here is the album showing my iteration of the challenge, cleared in 7 Turns.

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Ice Dragon, it would suck if we had spent a collective 25 stamina potions for nothing, wouldn't it?

I would like to say that I'm really jealous of the enemy positioning on turn 4 with Zephiel wide open like that.

I'm liking the use of AoE skills. They're really underappreciated, but they're so good in situations like this, as a few others here have also demonstrated.

 

4 hours ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

@Ice Dragon Oh yeah, forgot to mention that I beat the challenge earlier yesterday (had to go out right after and had no time to post)

I did it with no skill inheritance, no seals, no merges, no A+ or higher tier characters, and no movement/reposition assists of any kind (though it took 7 turns as a result).

Team was Seliph, Frederick, Jaffar, and Priscilla.

The most important units were Frederick and Jaffar. Seliph was really just there to bait blues (he finish Zephiel off, but I could have done it with another tanky red like Alfonse), and Priscilla could have been replaced with another healer like Serra or Lissa.

The play by play is here.

@Arcanite and @MrSmokestack have both already finished as well (both before me since I spent most of yesterday training units up) but were waiting for me so that the three of us could all post at the same time <3

I'm really surprised that Frederick could tank Zephiel that easily, especially considering that Priscilla's Spur Def only cancels the effect of Zephiel's Threaten Def. I mean, I really should have known, but it's so different when you see it in practice.

Using Jaffar to chip and debuff I find pretty cool.

 

4 hours ago, Arcanite said:

@Ice Dragon Three, count 'em, THREE words:

  Reveal hidden contents

Suck it, Ice Dragon

  Reveal hidden contents

I typed out my strategy/play by play in The "Strategists Three Secret Hideout" PM thread (yes that's what we call it), so I can easily quote it for you as my proof

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Some "minor nitpicks":

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Now, 3 other people did this challenge, but we were waiting until ALL THREE OF US did it to present our proof.

I think Smoke had some thoughts off of those others that did it (I believe it was LordFrigid, Sozz, and SoySoy).

My idea was set in stone from the beginning, but I messed up and didn't take off rehabiliate off my Serra (I would have done it before everyone heh). Also my Jaffar being -Spd meant I had to use Seliph instead of Selena who i had to take more time to grind up lol

Amphy used a team similar to mine, which I helped him out with (I said he could use Serra but he decided to use Priscilla instead, @Vaximillian that's your baby right?) heh heh (I did really make the suggestion, but I'm just saying this for comfort since my Jaffar being -Spd seriously ticked me off, and could have changed this thing completely)

Also, no repositioning skills OR AoE skills means it was a lot harder for me to do this one hee hee. I probably could do it in less turns, but frankly I don't really care all that much lol

So, Master Sensei Ice Dragon, you impressed?

 

I'm amused by Seliph chilling in the corner on the ending screenshot.

Manipulating the enemy movement played a huge part for my clears. Keeping the lance armor from using Swap on the red mage and drawing out the blue mage ended up being rather key to my successful runs.

 

4 hours ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

@Arcanite I love how yours ended up on a different page lmao

I know, right?

 

2 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

If anything, the challenge demonstrates that tiers and the divisions between them are practically meaningless, as the Arena meta has nothing to do with clearing content for the main game. Units like Jaffar seem like silly anomalies that are technically "allowed" despite the blatant cheese that comes with using him simply because he's A. It's a good metric to remove the obvious choices for sure--namely Reinhardt, all the popular mages, as well as the Dancers--but I think challenges like this in the future should have a guideline that is more rigidly defined, like

-No Dancer

-No 5* units

-No Skill Inheritance / Merges

-No Positioning Assists

-No Mages / Effective Damage / Anything that makes the map vulnerable to cheese

It's been pretty fun crafting strategies and following this thread for the past couple of days, though, so I'm fine with it personally.

I mean, the main point of the challenge wasn't as much to "use units that suck" so much as to prevent the use of units that are blatantly powerful.

Active and passive positioning skills, effective damage, and debuffs are disproportionately more common in the lower tiers of the arena tier list because they don't contribute as much to curb stomping the blatantly powerful units that are intended to one-round kill everything they see.

In limiting the ability to use those blatantly powerful units, you're essentially restricted to units that cannot kill in one round and need to rely on tactics that would normally be considered gimmicks in the arena to deal damage and stay alive.

 

3 hours ago, pianime94 said:

Up the ante by banning 5*!

Problem is I'll be completely unable to do my own challenges with that restriction without having to train up a completely new team from scratch.

 

2 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

For sure, the other "restrictions" are going to be more or less map-dependent. I can't say the same for a 5* limit, though, since the main difference between a 4 and a 5 is all of +2 in all stats along with a few extra skills that might indirectly affect a unit's Atk rating. If a strategy can be replicated by a unit of a lower* rating without affecting the turn count, it should be fine to use the 5* especially if +/- stats play a role and the person lacks the 4* alternative. No 5* exclusives is as far as I'd go personally.

One thing that is notable is the boost to Atk that you get from promoting to 5-star rarity. Ursula gains a full 7 Atk between 4-star Ursula with Blarwolf and 5-star Ursula with Blarwolf+. The difference is so great that 5-star Ursula with Thunder still has 1 more Atk than 4-star Ursula with Blarwolf.

As for no 5-star exclusive characters, I'm down with that, but I don't really see that as necessary. That said, I was specifically picking characters that were available as 3-star units for my runs.

Promoting to 5-stars, though, really does help a lot with pulling out enough damage output to break through enemies in a reasonable amount of turns.

[MaskedAmpharos]

3 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I'm gonna sue the Strategists Three for S T E A L I N G from me /s

Sue Arcanite specifically I want no part of this

[MrSmokestack]

Just now, MaskedAmpharos said:

Sue Arcanite specifically I want no part of this

But we're guilty by association.

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I would like to say that I'm really jealous of the enemy positioning on turn 4 with Zephiel wide open like that.

I'm liking the use of AoE skills. They're really underappreciated, but they're so good in situations like this, as a few others here have also demonstrated.

I mean, the main point of the challenge wasn't as much to "use units that suck" so much as to prevent the use of units that are blatantly powerful.

Active and passive positioning skills, effective damage, and debuffs are disproportionately more common in the lower tiers of the arena tier list because they don't contribute as much to curb stomping the blatantly powerful units that are intended to one-round kill everything they see.

In limiting the ability to use those blatantly powerful units, you're essentially restricted to units that cannot kill in one round and need to rely on tactics that would normally be considered gimmicks in the arena to deal damage and stay alive.

I have to say, just trying to figure out how the AI moved cost me more stamina potions than I could count, in addition to training units that I ended up not using. I'd gladly do more runs if I had extras, but I'm admittedly pretty liberal with my uses and wasn't ready when this challenge came along.

I'm a firm believer in no unit being a dud pull. Granted, units that are rated higher on a tier list certainly perform much better at a specific role--or at least require fewer resources to do it--than units rated lower, while units that cover niches that aren't needed tend to have less value than those who can fill an important one. However, the important thing is that every unit has that one thing they can do, and doing something worse than another, more popular unit isn't necessarily bad at all. While tier lists can be a useful reference for someone who is unfamiliar to a game, they aren't gospel by any means.

I enjoy these challenges for the same reason too; in fact, I started taking a liking to Subaki because he was such a prominent unit in Mkv's GHB runs, when I wouldn't have really noticed him otherwise. And with the new defense and reinforcement maps coming soon, I'm hoping healers will also get their time in the spotlight, since skills like Rehabilitate and Gravity are so greatly underrated and thus underused.

13 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

As for no 5-star exclusive characters, I'm down with that, but I don't really see that as necessary. That said, I was specifically picking characters that were available as 3-star units for my runs.

Promoting to 5-stars, though, really does help a lot with pulling out enough damage output to break through enemies in a reasonable amount of turns.

This is why seeing Jaffar's use in a few runs made me uncomfortable, knowing that the player's attempt can't be replicated by someone who wasn't fortunate enough to pull them. Jaffar needing to be +Atk and also not -Spd didn't help either if the Atk Seal wasn't available to him otherwise, as well as +Res Leo to an extent. Technically there isn't anything explicitly wrong in using those 5* exclusives because they met the original guidelines, but I personally prefer runs that aren't so strict on the team composition and can thus be a better reference for more people. A 4-Turn clear is still a 4-turn clear, though, so discounting it just because of that wouldn't be fair at all.

[Arcanite]

20 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Sue Arcanite specifically I want no part of this

O̶h̶ ̶l̶o̶o̶k̶!̶ ̶I̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶u̶s̶?̶ I̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶.̶.̶.̶.̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶?̶

39 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm amused by Seliph chilling in the corner on the ending screenshot.

Manipulating the enemy movement played a huge part for my clears. Keeping the lance armor from using Swap on the red mage and drawing out the blue mage ended up being rather key to my successful runs.

Glad to know you approve!

Spoiler

D̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶I̶ ̶r̶o̶u̶n̶d̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶?̶

The Blue mage movement was the most trouble. Took me 3 tries to figure out Seliph's movement on turn 3

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Arcanite said:

The Blue mage movement was the most trouble. Took me 3 tries to figure out Seliph's movement on turn 3

It took me 5 tries on my 4-turn clear Horse Emblem team to figure out how to get the lance armor to not use Swap on the red mage while still having everyone in range of the enemy with Hone Cavalry up.

And a few tries to figure out the positioning of my stand-by units so that they'd be in range to attack on the following turn while not being in the way of having Sully use Draw Back.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

21 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

This is why seeing Jaffar's use in a few runs made me uncomfortable, knowing that the player's attempt can't be replicated by someone who wasn't fortunate enough to pull them. Jaffar needing to be +Atk and also not -Spd didn't help either if the Atk Seal wasn't available to him otherwise, as well as +Res Leo to an extent. Technically there isn't anything explicitly wrong in using those 5* exclusives because they met the original guidelines, but I personally prefer runs that aren't so strict on the team composition and can thus be a better reference for more people. A 4-Turn clear is still a 4-turn clear, though, so discounting it just because of that wouldn't be fair at all

I'm sure there were replacements available for my Jaffar. The unit just needs to be able to ORKO the Red Mage. The turn I saved using Jaffar to chip the Axe Knight didn't actually matter; I still had room to kite.

[MrSmokestack]

19 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I'm sure there were replacements available for my Jaffar. The unit just needs to be able to ORKO the Red Mage. The turn I saved using Jaffar to chip the Axe Knight didn't actually matter; I still had room to kite.

+Atk Jaffar after LaD with an Atk buff is the only unit within those constraints that can actually KO the Red Mage on the counter on enemy phase, so the unit in question would need to have 49 Atk / 37 Spd after buffs. KO'ing on the counter isn't that important in the overall goal of clearing the map, so long as the mage can still be KO'd on player phase the turn after, but it provides a great deal of convenience nonetheless. Even a mage with WTA still has to go up against 34 Res on the mage, which requires 57 Atk (48 if WTA) to ORKO.

EDIT: I need to fix this

51 Atk (43 if WTA), so 5* Ursula with Hone Cavalry buff can do this actually; 29 + 10 + 6 hits 45 Atk, so there's that.

Edited April 22, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[wizzard of soz]

an honourable mention 8')

i like these challenges, and when i see other people play them through, it makes me realize the strengths of some characters i have but don't use and makes me want to train them. >)

though i agree that i'm iffy on the no 5* thing, as i have a small roster of 4*s that are level 40 and only one 3* above level 30. though i won't lie, what i did wouldn't work with 4*, since if i remember correctly the mages had 34 speed or so, and my Felicia couldn't have doubled them if she was 4* (couldn't even double at 5* if she wasn't +spd). my Corrin at 4* might not have had enough defensive stats to tank. 

i'm glad to see Seliph getting some use even if he wasn't really the star of the show 8') or only there to bait blues lol

nicely done everyone.

[MrSmokestack]

2 minutes ago, wizzard of soz said:

though i agree that i'm iffy on the no 5* thing, as i have a small roster of 4*s that are level 40 and only one 3* above level 30. though i won't lie, what i did wouldn't work with 4*, since if i remember correctly the mages had 34 speed or so, and my Felicia couldn't have doubled them if she was 4* (couldn't even double at 5* if she wasn't +spd). my Corrin at 4* might not have had enough defensive stats to tank. 

+Spd Felicia at 4* can double the mages, actually, though Corrin definitely would have lacked the bulk to take the hits he had to in your run if he was a 4*. I think just excluding 5* exclusives might be enough then to encourage runs that can be more easily replicated, but even so it's still debatable.

A general question for people who used healers in their Zephiel run: If you could go back and do one of the previous GHB's with those same conditions, would you consider running a Rehabilitate user? If so, how would it work?

[MaskedAmpharos]

13 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

+Spd Felicia at 4* can double the mages, actually, though Corrin definitely would have lacked the bulk to take the hits he had to in your run if he was a 4*. I think just excluding 5* exclusives might be enough then to encourage runs that can be more easily replicated, but even so it's still debatable.

A general question for people who used healers in their Zephiel run: If you could go back and do one of the previous GHB's with those same conditions, would you consider running a Rehabilitate user? If so, how would it work?

I mean I used a Rehabilitate healer, so, uh, yeah I imagine it would work pretty well. I very easily could have replaced Priscilla with Lissa instead.

I think I could have done the run with 4*s only (Alfonse could have replaced Seliph for example), though I'd need to do redo calcs to see how another mage killer would do over Jaffar (I may have been able to pull it off with Gaius).

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

I've been training up my 4* +Spd Odin, and with help from Clair's Spur Spd and Harsh Command, I think he can actually take care of the mages really quick. I might still need repositioning assistance, though. But I'm using Odin.

[Arcanite]

1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

But I'm using Odin.

2 words:

Spoiler

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

I was thinking about using the brand spanking new Odin I got too, but again, I looked up his max stats........................

*vomits*

Props to you Satsuma, props to you indeed

Edited April 23, 2017 by Arcanite

[bethany81707]

On the subject of Rehabilitate, Lissa's main role in my team is healing anyone who needs it. She also has an Atk aura now, and she was the main tank against Robin (F).

As for strategies, I play Heroes like I play Fire Emblem- conservatively.

[LordFrigid]

5 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

This is why seeing Jaffar's use in a few runs made me uncomfortable, knowing that the player's attempt can't be replicated by someone who wasn't fortunate enough to pull them. Jaffar needing to be +Atk and also not -Spd didn't help either if the Atk Seal wasn't available to him otherwise, as well as +Res Leo to an extent. Technically there isn't anything explicitly wrong in using those 5* exclusives because they met the original guidelines, but I personally prefer runs that aren't so strict on the team composition and can thus be a better reference for more people. A 4-Turn clear is still a 4-turn clear, though, so discounting it just because of that wouldn't be fair at all.

I'll agree that in general, more replicable runs are better. I also think that people looking for replicable may as well just watch the 3* clear videos; imo there's no issue with keeping allowed units for clear-focused runs and turn count-focused runs separate. Leaving the list of allowed units more open gives more opportunity to experiment with people that might not see use otherwise.

All that said, I wouldn't turn down a replicable + low turn challenge, but then you run into the issue of what to consider "replicable"...or more accurately, how to make a challenge where the runs are reasonably replicable without also being restrictive and annoying.