Lucıůs Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) How's it going? So in the first part of the April update (Ver.1.2.0), the devs have implemented the usage of Seals. These seals were described as "new equippable items that slightly expands Hero abilities" and are placed in a new skill slot (S) beside C passive. The day after maintenance, a new set of quests were made available to acquire seals (I hope everyone has finished these!). Currently, we only have 3 useable seals: HP +3, ATK +1, and SPD +1; and we are promised that more seals will be released soon. I find this new mechanic very intriguing as they serve as a 'bonus' skill that is flexible and can be passed on to anyone. For the meantime, I have designed a few seals that, I hope, are not too overpowered that it would break the game and not too weak that it would easily be overlooked. So without further ado, here are my ideas as of today: Spoiler -> Killer Seal Accelerates Special Trigger (Cooldown -1). Does not stack with Killer weapons. -> Replenishment Seal When unit initiates attack, unit heals 2 HP. -> Tuning Seals (I don't really know how to call these types of seals but they work similarly to Life and Death wherein ATK and SPD trades numbers with DEF and RES. If you guys can supply a good name for this set, that would be lovely!) 1) DEF Tuning Seal (+1 DEF, -1 ATK) 2) RES Tuning Seal (+1 RES, -1 SPD) 3) ATK Tuning Seal (+1 ATK, -1 DEF) 4) SPD Tuning Seal (+1 SPD, -1 RES) -> Bladed Seal Exclusive for Sword Users only (Boosts ATK by 2) -> Piercing Seal Exclusive for Lance users only (Boosts SPD by 2) -> Crushing Seal Exclusive for Axe users only (Boosts DEF by 2) -> Remedy Seal Exclusive for Staff users only (Boosts healing output by 5 points) -> Mystic Seal Exclusive for Tome Users only (Boosts RES by 2) -> Draconic Seal Exclusive for Dragons only (Boosts DEF and RES by 1) -> Sniping Seal Exclusive for Bow Users only (When unit initiates attack, unit gains +1 ATK and +1 SPD in combat) -> Deadly Seal Exclusive for Dagger users only (After combat, unit inflicts -1 DEF and -1 SPD to enemy) So there you have it. I was thinking of Seals per Unit movement type (Cavalry, Infantry, etc.) But then I thought that it would completely render the purpose of Seals (the purpose being that every unit can use it) useless. What about you guys and gals? I would definitely love to hear your ideas! Let's get creative! Edited April 21, 2017 by Lucıůs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizzard of soz Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 i can't think of anything to add to this right now (you already got so much covered!), but i like it. i can't tell if Killer Seal is OP or not..good balancing check for it to not stack with killer weapons though. still, i'm imagining a Wo Dao + Moonbow/Reprisal + Desperation and it sounds very good. too good? i do not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Make a Seal that gives 1 extra Mov when at max health, and then break the game with Reinhardt. Definitely a great idea. Actually, they might put Boots in the game eventually... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyrai Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I'd wager the seals won't get to the point that it becomes a high-impact seal, such as a breaker skill. Nor does one that reduces special cooldown would be a good idea. It's a very loosely balanced feature that could potentially make someone become more broken, so Sacred Seals must be kept as minor as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucıůs Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 42 minutes ago, wizzard of soz said: i can't think of anything to add to this right now (you already got so much covered!), but i like it. i can't tell if Killer Seal is OP or not..good balancing check for it to not stack with killer weapons though. still, i'm imagining a Wo Dao + Moonbow/Reprisal + Desperation and it sounds very good. too good? i do not know. Thank you for sharing your thoughts! And yes, to be honest I am still skeptical of this Seal whether it will be implemented or not because of an example of hazardous combinations that you mentioned. Brave weapons can also contribute to accelerating triggers so it's as deadly as it is. There must be another catch/penalty to this seal, probably take X damage after combat. 8 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: Make a Seal that gives 1 extra Mov when at max health, and then break the game with Reinhardt. Definitely a great idea. Actually, they might put Boots in the game eventually... While it isn't a really bad idea, I think once they expand the map size then we could take those Boots into consideration. Excellent! Also, I agree that Reinhardt is one of the best units in the game despite other people bashing him for his low BST haha. 6 minutes ago, Lyrai said: I'd wager the seals won't get to the point that it becomes a high-impact seal, such as a breaker skill. Nor does one that reduces special cooldown would be a good idea. It's a very loosely balanced feature that could potentially make someone become more broken, so Sacred Seals must be kept as minor as possible. One can only be optimistic and creative. But for now, seals exist only to give characters a little 'bump' in their stats. If this game continues to grow, which I really am looking forward to, then things and content will most likely get more complicated in an entertaining fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyrai Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Lucıůs said: One can only be optimistic and creative. But for now, seals exist only to give characters a little 'bump' in their stats. If this game continues to grow, which I really am looking forward to, then things and content will most likely get more complicated in an entertaining fashion. Mm... sorry if I sound a bit harsh. I'm just... not so fond of the idea. I hope the feature becomes better in a good way as time goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucıůs Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Lyrai said: Mm... sorry if I sound a bit harsh. I'm just... not so fond of the idea. I hope the feature becomes better in a good way as time goes on. No, no! Please, there is no need to apologize as I did not perceive any part of your statement as offensive. I understand your point of view and hey, at least we both agree that we're both hopeful for the game's future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) I'm not so sure a cd-reducing seal would be balanced, but I actually really like your other ideas! The tuning seals and the weapon-specific seals are all pretty cool ideas that I may not have thought of on my own. What about seals that help out your allies instead of the user? A mini-Hone/Fortify aura might be too much, but maybe a mini-Spur like +1 Atk to adjacent allies in combat or something like that? Edited April 21, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizzard of soz Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 10 minutes ago, Lucıůs said: Thank you for sharing your thoughts! And yes, to be honest I am still skeptical of this Seal whether it will be implemented or not because of an example of hazardous combinations that you mentioned. Brave weapons can also contribute to accelerating triggers so it's as deadly as it is. There must be another catch/penalty to this seal, probably take X damage after combat. ah yeah i forgot about brave weapons too. either a Fury-type penalty or maybe even stat penalty might do it, leaning towards spd or atk. i do like this though. it'd be cool to have seals that aren't just stat-based but it's hard to think up ones that would be balanced or on equal standing to the others. i was thinking of mini-versions of some slot skills, like a Wings of Mercy that only triggers when ally is below 5-15%. maybe some debuff seals too. none of those are really out of the box or creative on my part though :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said: I'm not so sure a cd-reducing seal would be balanced, but I actually really like your other ideas! The tuning seals and the weapon-specific seals are all pretty cool ideas that I may not have thought of on my own. What about seals that help out your allies instead of the user? A mini-Hone/Fortify aura might be too much, but maybe a mini-Spur like +1 Atk to adjacent allies in combat or something like that? What if the cooldown reduction seal couldn't reduce a cooldown below 2? Because 1 count Moonbow isn't cool. Actually y'know what, everything else would still be broken. But hey, at least Sol will be usable... Edited April 21, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyrai Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Lucıůs said: No, no! Please, there is no need to apologize as I did not perceive any part of your statement as offensive. I understand your point of view and hey, at least we both agree that we're both hopeful for the game's future. Eheehee. I was just teasing you a little, Lucius. I know you mean no harm in any way, but I feel happy to hear it! But my point still stands. While it opens up creativity, I fear it could break the balance when more sacred seals appear. Make it so that the sacred seal is either a tiny "bump" or a double edged blade. I'm glad your ideas are looking pretty good. Cooldown -1 is a bad idea. That would essentially eliminate any value in Killer weapons. As for the tuning seals, they're somewhat pointless, because a flat +1 Attack seal exists, so... The other ideas are nice, but +2 attack to a certain weapon ain't a good idea either, as it would always be used on their strongest. I would like the Remedy Seal, Mystic Seal, Draconic Seal, and Sniping Seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizzard of soz Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Lyrai said: As for the tuning seals, they're somewhat pointless, because a flat +1 Attack seal exists, so... d'oh, didn't even realize that about the tuning seals. although, since we're only supposed to get one of each seal (right?), it could still be useful in a way. though i'd say maybe bump up the buff and debuff to +2/-2. hmmm...or would that be unbalanced. probably. this is too hard haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyrai Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, wizzard of soz said: d'oh, didn't even realize that about the tuning seals. although, since we're only supposed to get one of each seal (right?), it could still be useful in a way. though i'd say maybe bump up the buff and debuff to +2/-2. hmmm...or would that be unbalanced. probably. this is too hard haha. It's exactly like I mentioned: The Sacred Seals system is very loosely balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucıůs Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 17 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said: I'm not so sure a cd-reducing seal would be balanced, but I actually really like your other ideas! The tuning seals and the weapon-specific seals are all pretty cool ideas that I may not have thought of on my own. What about seals that help out your allies instead of the user? A mini-Hone/Fortify aura might be too much, but maybe a mini-Spur like +1 Atk to adjacent allies in combat or something like that? I appreciate your feedback! And your concoctions are really good as well! Yes, a seal that acts like a mini-Spur is spot-on. It's a little buff but it's not too much overwhelming. Also, the Killer Seal would be pretty unbalanced as most of you say, but @SatsumaFSoysoy's suggestion that it is only limited to triggers with an innate cooldown of > 2 is nice as well. Thanks! 12 minutes ago, wizzard of soz said: ah yeah i forgot about brave weapons too. either a Fury-type penalty or maybe even stat penalty might do it, leaning towards spd or atk. i do like this though. it'd be cool to have seals that aren't just stat-based but it's hard to think up ones that would be balanced or on equal standing to the others. i was thinking of mini-versions of some slot skills, like a Wings of Mercy that only triggers when ally is below 5-15%. maybe some debuff seals too. none of those are really out of the box or creative on my part though :P Yup, anything can happen! I also get this thought that Seals are just mini versions of other slot skills. Your ideas are awesome, too! The mini- Wings of Mercy is a bit risky but I guess it's just there in case of emergency so that's okay. 11 minutes ago, Lyrai said: Eheehee. I was just teasing you a little, Lucius. I know you mean no harm in any way, but I feel happy to hear it! But my point still stands. While it opens up creativity, I fear it could break the balance when more sacred seals appear. Make it so that the sacred seal is either a tiny "bump" or a double edged blade. I'm glad your ideas are looking pretty good. Cooldown -1 is a bad idea. That would essentially eliminate any value in Killer weapons. As for the tuning seals, they're somewhat pointless, because a flat +1 Attack seal exists, so... The other ideas are nice, but +2 attack to a certain weapon ain't a good idea either, as it would always be used on their strongest. I would like the Remedy Seal, Mystic Seal, Draconic Seal, and Sniping Seal. 7 minutes ago, wizzard of soz said: d'oh, didn't even realize that about the tuning seals. although, since we're only supposed to get one of each seal (right?), it could still be useful in a way. though i'd say maybe bump up the buff and debuff to +2/-2. hmmm...or would that be unbalanced. probably. this is too hard haha. What @wizzard of soz said. Assuming that they will only hand out a single type of seal then these seals may come in handy. I also tried to rearrange the values but I do not exactly know its bearing if it's +2/-2 or +1/-1 since it can also be stacked with Life and Death somehow. Thanks for the evaluation! It really means a lot, though I haven't heard any ideas from you yet, @Lyrai. I mean I know that as you said before, you aren't really fond of the idea... While it is agreeable that seals provide only a minimal buff today, for me it could still make an apparent difference(really helped my Eldigan's survivability). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizzard of soz Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, Lucıůs said: Yup, anything can happen! I also get this thought that Seals are just mini versions of other slot skills. Your ideas are awesome, too! The mini- Wings of Mercy is a bit risky but I guess it's just there in case of emergency so that's okay. What @wizzard of soz said. Assuming that they will only hand out a single type of seal then these seals may come in handy. I also tried to rearrange the values but I do not exactly know its bearing if it's +2/-2 or +1/-1 since it can also be stacked with Life and Death somehow. Thanks for the evaluation! It really means a lot, though I haven't heard any ideas from you yet, @Lyrai. I mean I know that as you said before, you aren't really fond of the idea... While it is agreeable that seals provide only a minimal buff today, for me it could still make an apparent difference(really helped my Eldigan's survivability). aw thanks 8'). actually, now that you say that about it being really risky and about how the seals really are mini-versions...i'm thinking this means a Wings of Mercy seal should actually be <= 30% if we're sticking to that trend. and, if we follow that trend further, then a bunch of seals would just be level 1 versions of all the skills. hmm... and agreed, the seals can be the difference between life and death, or in being able to KO an enemy. and having a +atk seal on someone who has weapon advantage gives them +2 damage (since FEH always rounds up, i'm pretty sure). there's actually a brave lance user (forgot exactly who, but) that can just barely kill my M Corrin, but if I had an HP seal on him he could live, which is important imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruruo Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 6 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: Make a Seal that gives 1 extra Mov when at max health, and then break the game with Reinhardt. Definitely a great idea. Actually, they might put Boots in the game eventually... Boots, exclusive to armours, so they can walk like normal people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 4 hours ago, komasa said: Boots, exclusive to armours, so they can walk like normal people Ngl that sounds broken as hell. If you think about the amount of difference +1 mov makes compared to a mere +1 atk (which is the level the current seals are at), the difference is incomparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRei Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Aren't the current seals just Level 1 Slot A passives? I wouldn't expect them to expand beyond that and maybe Level 1 Slot C passives for quite a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruruo Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 1 hour ago, MaskedAmpharos said: Ngl that sounds broken as hell. If you think about the amount of difference +1 mov makes compared to a mere +1 atk (which is the level the current seals are at), the difference is incomparable. They just released Seals feature recently after all. Even on the A-slot we passives like HP +4 mixed in with stuff like Triangle Adept or Life and Death. I wouldn't be surprised if more stronger seals were brought in later on. Though I do hope the feature will manage to stay balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Just now, komasa said: They just released Seals feature recently after all. Even on the A-slot we passives like HP +4 mixed in with stuff like Triangle Adept or Life and Death. I wouldn't be surprised if more stronger seals were brought in later on. Though I do hope the feature will manage to stay balanced. Sure but as you said, seals are currently just weaker A-passives. There is no skill in the game that gives a unit extra movement because that would be far more broken than even Hector's Distant Counter being a seal. I would be extremely surprised if a seal as powerful as what you mentioned is passed on because that would be absolutely gamebreaking, which seals are not meant to be (given that all we've had so far are small stat boosts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruruo Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said: Sure but as you said, seals are currently just weaker A-passives. There is no skill in the game that gives a unit extra movement because that would be far more broken than even Hector's Distant Counter being a seal. I would be extremely surprised if a seal as powerful as what you mentioned is passed on because that would be absolutely gamebreaking, which seals are not meant to be (given that all we've had so far are small stat boosts). Fair enough, I can still dream x'D. I mentioned Boots cause they are such a staple recurring item within the series, it would be nice to see it appear in Heroes in some form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Hmmm, how about a set of trade-off Seals for cooldown manipulation? Killer Instinct Seal - Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count -1). Reduces Special damage by 6. Does not stack with Killer weaponry. Opportunist Seal - Slows Special cooldown by 1. Grants +3 damage when Special triggers. Deflection Seal - Slows Special cooldown by 1. Grants -5 damage taken when defensive Special triggers. And base on the demand for Boots: Swift Greaves Seal (Armours only) - +1 Movement on the first turn of the map. Miscellaneous ideas: Forestwalker Seal - +1 Def and +1 Res when standing on a forest tile. Infantry/Armor/Cavalry/Flier/Dragon Slayer Seal - +2 Atk against enemies of the appropriate type. Paragon Seal - When a unit would gain EXP, +10% EXP. Discipline Seal - When a unit would gain SP for defeating a unit, grants +1 SP. Scholar's Seal - When a unit would gain HM, grants +10% HM. Aum Seal (theoretical, based on speculation of the new game modes) - If this unit is defeated during a multi-map mode, it returns to life at the start of the next map. May only trigger once per attempt. Inevitable End Seal - Enemy only. Appears in the new modes. Debuffs accumulate for the duration of the map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thany Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Id just like to point out that if we give armor boots... they may just walk 2 spaces over forests since they dont have any movement restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelgius Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 I would like to see Def+2 and Res+2. I do wonder if they will do enemy only ones, like unit weakness removal skills on challenge maps in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) Enhance Seal: Skills that trigger based on HP level now have +10% better activation rate. For example, Wary Fighter 3 would go from "active until this unit falls below 50% HP" to "active until this unit falls below 40% HP". Vantage 3 would go from "activates when unit's health drops below 70%" to "activates when unit's health drops below 80%" Restore Seal: Halves status drops. Endurance Seal: Halves post battle damage. As if we needed more of a reason to see Fury on everything. On 4/21/2017 at 10:35 AM, MaskedAmpharos said: Sure but as you said, seals are currently just weaker A-passives. There is no skill in the game that gives a unit extra movement because that would be far more broken than even Hector's Distant Counter being a seal. I think Move +1 would be fair as a B-slot skill, especially if it's restricted to Armors. Most armors need their B skill to Shine, either in Vantage, Wary Fighter or Wings of Mercy, so the offensive advantage of more move would offset the lost defensive potential. It would be interesting if IS could give characters temporary skills to test how they affect the meta before putting them on actual characters. Although if you wanted a weaker Seal version, you could make it "+1 move until this unit enters combat" Edited April 23, 2017 by NekoKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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