10 mins of gameplay from GameSpot

[Armagon]

Just now, spiderbrush said:

While the map design in Echoes is definitely a step down from Conquest and I would have liked it if they could re-make them to be not so bland, if the quality of them is on par with Awakening's maps, I think I'll be good. That game also had rather unexciting maps and I still had fun with it. And it seems like everything else about this game is rather good.

Yeah, despite the blandess of Echoes' maps, the only one that is actually bad is the open area with a single river running in the middle with a single bridge. That map is used three times. Granted, enemy placement and stats are different but the map is still used three times.

Perhaps the only other bad maps are the desert maps but no one likes desert maps.

[Baldrick]

Enemy placement usually makes more of a difference to how the map plays than the actual map itself. I just hope you have more options to pass swamps than just only use pegasi.

[Lyon's Dirge]

Gameplay is disappointing so I'll just be sticking with Conquest.

[Armagon]

Just now, Lyon's Dirge said:

Gameplay is disappointing so I'll just be sticking with Conquest.

Don't skip the game solely because of gameplay.

[Lyon's Dirge]

Just now, Armagon said:

Don't skip the game solely because of gameplay.

I don't think you realize how silly what you just said sounds.

 

[Armagon]

Just now, Lyon's Dirge said:

I don't think you realize how silly what you just said sounds.

 

The opposite, really. I just find it stupid that someone would skip a game soley because of gameplay. Echoes has amazing music, actual characters (compared to the original), a good story, fully voiced dialogue, amazing art, new features (Mila's Turnwheel), returning features (Skills, Supports, Forging, etc). And you're gonna skip all of that because the gameplay looks boring?

[Lyon's Dirge]

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

The opposite, really. I just find it stupid that someone would skip a game soley because of gameplay. Echoes has amazing music, actual characters (compared to the original), a good story, fully voiced dialogue, amazing art, new features (Mila's Turnwheel), returning features (Skills, Supports, Forging, etc). And you're gonna skip all of that because the gameplay looks boring?

 

I could easily listen to Echoes' music on Youtube. Now unless you can read Japanese how do you know that Echoes' has a good plot? Also, the plot could also be read from the script that will eventually be available on Serenesforest or just by watching Youtube videos. Who would play a game for art? Mila's Turnwheel just makes the game easier than it already is in combination with Retreat. Forging sucks in Echoes and requires a lot of coin grinding, supports can be viewed on Youtube or Serenesforest, and Skills can't be doubled with and are attached to Weapons. Echoes could've been good but IS ruined the one ingredient that makes a game a game and separates it from movies and novels.

[Armagon]

Just now, Lyon's Dirge said:

 

I could easily listen to Echoes' music on Youtube. Now unless you can read Japanese how do you know that Echoes' has a good plot? Also, the plot could also be read from the script that will eventually be available on Serenesforest or just by watching Youtube videos. Who would play a game for art? Mila's Turnwheel just makes the game easier than it already is in combination with Retreat. Forging sucks in Echoes and requires a lot of coin grinding, supports can be viewed on Youtube or Serenesforest, and Skills can't be doubled with and are attached to Weapons. Echoes could've been good but IS ruined the one ingredient that makes a game a game and separates it from movies and novels.

You do realize all of this applies to literally ever game ever made, right? At that point, what's the point of even playing any game? By that logic, I can just skip Xenoblade Chronicles 2, since I can look up literally everything about the game when it comes out. But where's the fun in that?

Also, Echoes Forging>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fates Forging. Retreat can only be used from Turn 3 onwards, assuming it's not a mandatory battle. Mila's Turnwheel can't be abused, and Skills not being able to double has always been a thing. Plus, them being attached to weapons means that you no longer have to flip a coin and hope for it to activate. Echoes Skills are certainly more strategically viable.

Also, Echoes' plot is basically Gaiden's, except it's actually a story this time. Gaiden's original story is barebones, but it still passed as a story. All Echoes did with it is make it better.

[Lyon's Dirge]

15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

You do realize all of this applies to literally ever game ever made, right? At that point, what's the point of even playing any game? By that logic, I can just skip Xenoblade Chronicles 2, since I can look up literally everything about the game when it comes out. But where's the fun in that?

Also, Echoes Forging>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fates Forging. Retreat can only be used from Turn 3 onwards, assuming it's not a mandatory battle. Mila's Turnwheel can't be abused, and Skills not being able to double has always been a thing. Plus, them being attached to weapons means that you no longer have to flip a coin and hope for it to activate. Echoes Skills are certainly more strategically viable.

Also, Echoes' plot is basically Gaiden's, except it's actually a story this time. Gaiden's original story is barebones, but it still passed as a story. All Echoes did with it is make it better.

But not every game ever made has shit gameplay like Gaiden and Echoes do.

[maybe]

2 minutes ago, Lyon's Dirge said:

But not every game ever made has shit gameplay like Gaiden and Echoes do.

have you played it

[King Marth 64]

30 minutes ago, Lyon's Dirge said:

 

I could easily listen to Echoes' music on Youtube. Now unless you can read Japanese how do you know that Echoes' has a good plot? Also, the plot could also be read from the script that will eventually be available on Serenesforest or just by watching Youtube videos. Who would play a game for art? Mila's Turnwheel just makes the game easier than it already is in combination with Retreat. Forging sucks in Echoes and requires a lot of coin grinding, supports can be viewed on Youtube or Serenesforest, and Skills can't be doubled with and are attached to Weapons. Echoes could've been good but IS ruined the one ingredient that makes a game a game and separates it from movies and novels.

Famitsu did give a best score for Echoes: Shadows of Valentia for 37 out of 40 which it's the highest score out of the entire Fire Emblem games. I think you're just judging a book by it's cover way too early since this game was only just came out in Japan a few days ago.

[Armagon]

25 minutes ago, Lyon's Dirge said:

But not every game ever made has shit gameplay like Gaiden and Echoes do.

I've played games that have actual shitty gameplay *looks at Mega Man X7*

 

Gaiden and Echoes do not have shit gameplay. If anything, Gaiden/Echoes' gameplay is arguably better than Awakening's. Because in Gaiden/Echoes, you can't cheese the game via Pair-Ups. Despite it's looks, strategy still actually matters in Gaiden/Echoes.

[Lyon's Dirge]

36 minutes ago, unique said:

have you played it

Yes, I have.

29 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

Famitsu did give a best score for Echoes: Shadows of Valentia for 37 out of 40 which it's the highest score out of the entire Fire Emblem games. I think you're just judging a book by it's cover way too early since this game was only just came out in Japan a few days ago.

Big whoop. Metacritic gave Awakening a high score as well.  Hardcore fan opinions are more reliable than review sites. They are generally biased towards games especially if said game is a part of a series they like.

The game coming out in Japan a few days ago doesn't matter either since the gameplay is largely the same as it was in Gaiden. 

14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I've played games that have actual shitty gameplay *looks at Mega Man X7*

 

Gaiden and Echoes do not have shit gameplay. If anything, Gaiden/Echoes' gameplay is arguably better than Awakening's. Because in Gaiden/Echoes, you can't cheese the game via Pair-Ups. Despite it's looks, strategy still actually matters in Gaiden/Echoes.

Having better gameplay than Awakening is not a hard feat to achieve and Gaiden's/Echoes' gameplay has a lot in common with Awakening. 

 

[Armagon]

4 minutes ago, Lyon's Dirge said:

Hardcore fan opinions are more reliable than review sites.

None are more reliable than the other actually.

4 minutes ago, Lyon's Dirge said:

The game coming out in Japan a few days ago doesn't matter either since the gameplay is largely the same as it was in Gaiden. 

Just like how the gameplay in Shadow Dragon and New Mystery was largely the same as the original versions of said games. This is basically how Fire Emblem remakes work. Keep the gameplay 95% the same, add some new stuff/change some old stuff a bit (unless it's Shadow Dragon, all they really added was the Weapon Triangle, Reclassing, and characters that you could only get by killing off your own units. Shadow Dragon didn't have Supports, which is one of the biggest reasons why people didn't like it).

Edited April 22, 2017 by Armagon

[maybe]

5 minutes ago, Lyon's Dirge said:

Yes, I have.

then what was the point of posting about it if you've already played it

[Pikappa93]

It's really a matter of opinions and tastes, guys. I personally love Gaiden/Echoes, but gameplay wise it's such an odd game that I can understand people who don't like it and prefer a more classic approach to the series.

[King Marth 64]

48 minutes ago, Lyon's Dirge said:

Big whoop. Metacritic gave Awakening a high score as well.  Hardcore fan opinions are more reliable than review sites. They are generally biased towards games especially if said game is a part of a series they like.

I did heard Ash & Derrick from GameXplain and NintenDann really did enjoyed playing Echoes: Shadows of Valentia and they did said it's feels alot like actual traditional RPG with the dungeon exploring that was included in the game. They might be reviewers, but they are hardcore Fire Emblem fans of the series as well. And I did seen alot of good comments that people feel alot like they'll going to be enjoying getting the game at May 19th.

[Lyon's Dirge]

1 minute ago, King Marth 64 said:

I did heard Ash & Derrick from GameXplain and NintenDann really did enjoyed playing Echoes: Shadows of Valentia and they did said it's feels alot like actual traditional RPG with the dungeon exploring that was included in the game. They might be reviewers, but they are hardcore Fire Emblem fans of the series as well. And I did seen alot of good comments that people feel alot like they'll going to be enjoying getting the game at May 19th.

And therein lies your problem. Fire Emblem is a TRPG not a RPG. Gaiden and Echoes fail at both. GameXplain and NintenDann saying it feels a lot like an actual traditional RPG is nothing to be happy about. 

[Armagon]

Just now, Lyon's Dirge said:

GameXplain and NintenDann saying it feels a lot like an actual traditional RPG is nothing to be happy about. 

I have to disagree with this, especially since you won't really find Gaiden/Echoes unique gameplay anywhere else.

Also

5 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

Derrick from GameXplain

5 minutes ago, King Marth 64 said:

they are hardcore Fire Emblem fans of the series as well.

I wound't exactly call Derrick a hardcore Fire Emblem fan but he definitely has the experience, especially since he has livestreamed Iron Man runs of Blazing Blade, Sacred Stones, and currently, Path of Radiance (though the Iron Man runs are a result of him probably not wanting to bore the viewers with resets).

 

[Nobody]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

You do realize all of this applies to literally ever game ever made, right? At that point, what's the point of even playing any game?

gameplay

 

i mean, I also play games for things other than gameplay (though on Fire Emblem I value gameplay far more than anything else), but there's nothing weird about playing a game just for gameplay.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Nobody

[Armagon]

Just now, Nobody said:

gameplay

A game can't rely on gameplay alone though. Unless it's like, Atari games.

[Nobody]

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

A game can't rely on gameplay alone though. Unless it's like, Atari games.

That's not necessarily the point here. The thing is, many of us wouldn't be willing to play a game with crap gameplay even if everything else is good and that's how the guy you quoted feel. He feels that there's no need for him to play a game with bad gameplay (i'm not saying echoes has bad gameplay, I haven't played it yet, but that's his opinion), even if everything else is great. And again, nothing wrong or weird with that.

Maybe he gets most of his fun from good gameplay. I know I do. What's the point of playing a game if that's not giving him fun? I certainly enjoy good game music, nice graphics, a nice story, but in general, most of my fun while playing games (specially fire emblem) comes from gameplay. Most of the time, I'd take a game with good gameplay and bad everything else than a game with bad gameplay and good everything else.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Nobody

[Tryhard]

while i somewhat agree in the fact that gaiden is pretty much a proto-awakening and sacred stones of sorts (though not similar at all in style), it's not as if the older games didn't have their other issues

fe4 having a lot of things i can point to. if anything, both of these games are carried by how intriguing their gameplay is (including the addition of weapon skills in echoes) even if it they be tedious. and they can

i dunno why people would think it being more an RPG is a bad thing. this is one of the strongest points about gaiden and the fact it was experimental

Edited April 22, 2017 by Tryhard

[Emerson]

1rn and archaic maps could make it feel the overall gameplay feel meh. And there's nothing besides rout chapters, correct me if I'm not remembering correctly.

While I still personally find enjoyment out of Gaiden's gameplay, and by extension Echoes, the general lack of complex elements found in most FE games could make it feel a bit boring and not very fun to some. It's all subjective. There's still a lot to enjoy gameplay-wise, but if the core things you're looking for isn't there, it might not be the best experience.

[Jedi]

23 minutes ago, Armagon said:

A game can't rely on gameplay alone though. Unless it's like, Atari games.

Wrong, I play most games for their gameplay alone, if a plot is good, thats cool, but if it plays awkwardly I can't really ignore it, the only time I was ever able to do that was Morrowind. 

Ask a good number of Tales Of fans, and they'll tell you the plots while cookie cutter, and ok, isn't what keeps them playing the games, its their gameplay. The Fire Emblem fanbase is largely the same in this regard. Sure Tales & FE do have good characters and interactions, but thats usual outside of a main plot.

However Echoes looks to have solid gameplay, its just not going to be very engaging on a tactical standpoint, its more an RPG than a tactics game and i'm ok with that.