I love the storytelling

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Holy mother of god I cannot emphasize how much the presentation and storytelling of this game blows Awakening, Fates and pretty much everything before that out of the water (technical limitations make this unfair to old games, but still).

A gripe that a lot of people had with Awakening and Fates (especially Fates) was that the pre-chapter exposition was very poor at conveying the story. It certainly didn't feel very cohesive, as every chapter was a mini time skip to jump to the next location. Those scenes were also generally a bit short, and did not give the player much detail. It boiled down to "we're here now, let's fight these dudes". It was like an episodic TV series that's not supposed to have a central plot line...except the FE games were supposed to have a central plot line. This felt much less of a problem in the GBA series, probably because the scenes were longer (and nostalgia lens perhaps).

But here, full voice acting, along with the auto text skip, makes the game feels a lot more alive and in motion, like it's an actual anime or movie. No more random grunting and one-liners while reading text. It's not fully cinematic, but it's a step in the right direction in my opinion. The use of the 3D mode animations and CGs are much improved as well. Of course, in exchange for fully voice dialogue, the pacing might feel slightly more sluggish for some people, if you read really fast and don't want to wait for the people to finish talking. I'm absolutely fine with it, though I'm a guy who thought Metal Gear Solid 4 was fine too, so take that as you will.

The model of storytelling is, at its core, honestly still the same as the other games. But the way it's presented is so much better, it's a lot more bearable now. I also dig the segments where you get to look around and point and click stuff, but they could be expanded a lot more.

Also, I love Alm's voice acting. The fact that he voices Biscuit from Iron-Blooded Orphans makes it kinda funny actually.

[Mox]

Honestly, hearing this is a massive relief for me, especially because I revel in the story of a game above all other aspects.  So far it looks good and even though I was initially unsure about the full voice acting it seems to have brought things together well.  I can't wait to get my hands on my copy next month!

[escotanner]

For me, I feel storytelling and character fleshiness is important in Fire Emblem. Now knowing that we actually will have a decent story (because we're getting one game and not three) makes me even more excited.

[property of nuvelle]

I love that a lot of character's still have presence even if minor. Gray and Tobin will still have various lines throughout out the story. Mae, Boey, and Saber will appear in a certain CG. It's a very nice touch. Base convos also add that extra bit to make it better. 

The voice acting is definitely a big plus for presentation. I really hope they would keep this in the future because it honestly brings so much more emotion and feel.

Also, I actually like the cutscenes. Not as detailed and smooth as Awakening and Fates, but it's enjoyable and was chosen for very good moments. It feels much more anime which somehow makes it all more emotional. That Alm/Celica reuniting scene was one of the cutest things I've seen.

Edited April 23, 2017 by KongDude88

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

15 minutes ago, KongDude88 said:

Also, I actually like the cutscenes. Not as detailed and smooth as Awakening and Fates, but it's enjoyable and was chosen for very good moments. It feels much more anime which somehow makes it all more emotional. That Alm/Celica reuniting scene was one of the cutest things I've seen.

Ditto about the smoothness. I noticed the choppiness in some motions, and I was wondering if it was just because my 3DS is old (it is, and the screen is cracked). I like the animations by the Awakening/Fates studio better (what are they even called?), but I can definitely get behind this change of pace.

[property of nuvelle]

1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Ditto about the smoothness. I noticed the choppiness in some motions, and I was wondering if it was just because my 3DS is old (it is, and the screen is cracked). I like the animations by the Awakening/Fates studio better (what are they even called?), but I can definitely get behind this change of pace.

Just looked it up, and I guess they're called anima inc.

[Sentinel07]

1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Also, I love Alm's voice acting. The fact that he voices Biscuit from Iron-Blooded Orphans makes it kinda funny actually.

You mean Mikazuki. Biscuit was Erik Kimerer.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, Sentinel07 said:

You mean Mikazuki. Biscuit was Erik Kimerer.

Japanese.

[FallenVanguard]

I can't understand any of the story beyond inferring stuff (haven't read any translated base convos, supports, or story dialogue) but I can definitely say they put a LOT into it. And I can't wait to experience it in English.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Devil's Advocate: "But the Story tho!" is the cheapest defense for awful games.

But yeah, there are key scenes and relationships from Gaiden I'm dying to see how they handled.

[FallenVanguard]

2 hours ago, Gustavos said:

Devil's Advocate: "But the Story tho!" is the cheapest defense for awful games.

But yeah, there are key scenes and relationships from Gaiden I'm dying to see how they handled.

?

It's not really a defense of gameplay, which I assume you're hinting at, just as good gameplay isn't a good defense of a bad story.

But just as weaknesses should be pointed out, so too should strengths.

[Crimson Red]

it's p. solid

 

way better than Fates for sure

IMO better than Awakening

probably around GBA-level, it's not like superb, there's room for work in some parts of the plot and writing, but it's also held back a little by the original plot, and it's also FE, which has never had amazing stories, so I'm pretty satisfied with it and can't really complain as a whole—I enjoyed the story and was invested in what was happening, which is all I could really ask for, personally

[Leif]

1 hour ago, Crimson Red said:

it's p. solid

 

way better than Fates for sure

IMO better than Awakening

probably around GBA-level, it's not like superb, there's room for work in some parts of the plot and writing, but it's also held back a little by the original plot, and it's also FE, which has never had amazing stories, so I'm pretty satisfied with it and can't really complain as a whole—I enjoyed the story and was invested in what was happening, which is all I could really ask for, personally

That's reassuring. It's so nice to see I.S. attempt to make a better story. I'll be the judge of Echoes's plot once I get it, though.

You're right that Fire Emblem has suffered from cookie-cutter, crap plots, with Conquest being the only one to try something different only for it to end up being the worst story in the history of Fire Emblem.

Why I.S. keeps failing at delivering a compelling narrative is beyond me. The theme of Fire Emblem can be boiled down to the hardships and horrors of war and how people can rise up and change both the social and political landscape of their society. There is so much potential for a good story here, but it always boils down to big evil dragon wanting to destroy the world using its evil cult. Even Kaga couldn't escape using this trope. Though his games did a better job world building (with Judgral being the best) their plots are nothing ground-breaking. 

Now you CAN use the whole evil dragon with evil cult trying to take over the world plot, but why not just turn these tropes on their heads? How about starting out with the bad guys succeeding in their plan to take over the world and explore what kind of place that would be. It would be neat to explore a dystopian society instead of the usual good kingdom VS bad kingdom. I don't know, I'm just rambling. In summary, I am glad to see I.S. making efforts to strengthen Fire Emblem's storytelling. Are there any overt anime cliches in Echoes? I sure hope not. 

I do worry for future Fire Emblem installments with the whole Deeprealm and Outrealm stuff being a thing. I don't want Fire Emblem to become a giant Doctor Who episode. I truly hope they move away from that crap plot device, but they most likely won't since I'm sure it'll be a thing in Fire Emblem Warriors and FE Switch. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Leif

[Tsak]

yeah this story doesn't seem so M.Night Shamayalnesque. I feel like them taking a story which was originally, bare bones and painting it vividly helped make it overall quite a cohesive and enjoyable experience. That being said, I can't wait to see how the localization team does with this material. And the English voice actors seem to be knocking it out of the park. Gray in particular cracks me up, even his command quote "Come at me fools!" is just great.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

7 hours ago, Crimson Red said:

it's p. solid

 

way better than Fates for sure

IMO better than Awakening

probably around GBA-level, it's not like superb, there's room for work in some parts of the plot and writing, but it's also held back a little by the original plot, and it's also FE, which has never had amazing stories, so I'm pretty satisfied with it and can't really complain as a whole—I enjoyed the story and was invested in what was happening, which is all I could really ask for, personally

Yeah, I wouldn't say the story blew me away, but the way it's presented to us is probably the best this series has ever done. The story may not be top tier, but the experience definitely is.

3 hours ago, Tsak said:

yeah this story doesn't seem so M.Night Shamayalnesque. I feel like them taking a story which was originally, bare bones and painting it vividly helped make it overall quite a cohesive and enjoyable experience. That being said, I can't wait to see how the localization team does with this material. And the English voice actors seem to be knocking it out of the park. Gray in particular cracks me up, even his command quote "Come at me fools!" is just great.

Yup, impressed with the dub this time around. Screw the Fates localization.

[Etrurian emperor]

On 23-4-2017 at 3:59 AM, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Also, I love Alm's voice acting. The fact that he voices Biscuit from Iron-Blooded Orphans makes it kinda funny actually.

He also voices 9s from Nier which was a strong enough performance for me to have high hopes for Alm's voice.

The story coming off so interesting comes as a bit of a surprise for me. Gaiden was never known for its strong plot and the game pulling a shadow dragon was always on the table, but it seems that it won't. The minor characters possibly discussing what happens on screen by themselves sounds like a very promising touch for their characterization. 

[Apox]

Spoiler

I legit cried when I killed Rudolf. They totally nailed the drama of that moment.

 

[property of nuvelle]

4 hours ago, Apox said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I legit cried when I killed Rudolf. They totally nailed the drama of that moment.

 

Not sure if I'll ever do the same, but for Awakening and Fates...

Spoiler

Did people actually cry when characters like Flora or Emmeryn died? I see so many people talking about how emotional that was for them when it happened. It honestly didn't affect me really, as those characters didn't really make me sympathize with them. Also, when the hell did Flora learn to summon fire as an Ice child anyways? Whatever this is getting off topic.

(I should really stop getting my sources from youtube comments)

I hope this game really makes me feel something and I'm sure it will with the voices. Sad noises and "no!"s doesn't really do it for me...

Another touch that I like that might not really do with story telling is the fact that some characters will respond to another's death if close enough. Boey will say something like, "Mae, get up. This isn't funny..." or something like that. Glad that characters will actually feel sad about the loss of a companion.

Edited April 24, 2017 by KongDude88

[NekoKnight]

The presentation is definitely top notch. Even little things like exploring towns and hearing the opinions of Alm and others on various things make the world feel much more alive. Base Conversations are an excellent way for characters to react to current events, which makes people feel connected to their world. One thing I disliked about Fates is that characters seemed to exist in a vacuum. 

I really hope IS can keep these elements in mind for FE Switch. World-building isn't a one-and-done gimmick!

[Thane]

Being a big Ace Attorney fan (before that bastard Yamazaki took over), I love the little tidbits Alm and Celica offer when you click around. Not only does it add some worldbuilding on occasion, which their monologues about dungeons they explore also do very well, but it gives us an insight into the things they notice.

Memories are also a fantastic edition that allow for both expected and unexpected character interactions. Base conversations make a nice return, but they should be just that - conversations. Not monologues with implied responses.

There are a few things that I don't like though. There's a lot of dramatic screaming, and the supports are short and very basic, but hey, it's a very good presentation nevertheless.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

3 hours ago, Thane said:

Being a big Ace Attorney fan (before that bastard Yamazaki took over), I love the little tidbits Alm and Celica offer when you click around. Not only does it add some worldbuilding on occasion, which their monologues about dungeons they explore also do very well, but it gives us an insight into the things they notice.

Memories are also a fantastic edition that allow for both expected and unexpected character interactions. Base conversations make a nice return, but they should be just that - conversations. Not monologues with implied responses.

There are a few things that I don't like though. There's a lot of dramatic screaming, and the supports are short and very basic, but hey, it's a very good presentation nevertheless.

The point and click thing got a little bit on my nerves after a while because of how slow the thing scrolls, but it was definitely a nice touch. I'd be down for free roaming, though.

I don't really mind the implied responses thing either way. I know some people get irked when their character responds for them, even though Alm/Celica is not supposed to be their self-insert. Idk.

Maybe I haven't gotten that far into the game yet (Chapter 3 atm), but I haven't seen much dramatic screaming. The supports feel like the GBA ones, and I'm fine with that.

[Apox]

15 hours ago, KongDude88 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Did people actually cry when characters like Flora or Emmeryn died? I see so many people talking about how emotional that was for them when it happened. It honestly didn't affect me really, as those characters didn't really make me sympathize with them. Also, when the hell did Flora learn to summon fire as an Ice child anyways? Whatever this is getting off topic.

(I should really stop getting my sources from youtube comments)

I hope this game really makes me feel something and I'm sure it will with the voices. Sad noises and "no!"s doesn't really do it for me...

 

Spoiler

Well, I didn't play Fates so I can't relate to Flora's death, but for Emmeryn's death, I wasn't affected that much and didn't cry (welp), since I guess she didn't leave that much of an impression on me.

Spoiler

However, Echoes really improved Rudolf's death from Gaiden. Back in Gaiden, it was only "You kill Rudolf and it appears he was Alm's dad all along, here is his last words. Well done, player." and that was it. However, in Echoes, they share words with each other and the CG, the BGM and the way CVs talk... it is really a masterpiece and totally caught the real atmosphere of the moment. I could really feel Alm's sadness and the drama of the moment. Do note that I don't know moonrunes, so I could only guess what they were talking about by my very limited knowledge of Japanese and from the translation of Gaiden.

Same goes for Berkut too, Alm is also distraught with his death, and kudos to his CV, he really put his soul out for Alm and you can really feel it.

 

[Thane]

1 hour ago, Apox said:

Spoiler

Same goes for Berkut too, Alm is also distraught with his death, and kudos to his CV, he really put his soul out for Alm and you can really feel it.

 

Spoiler

That bothered me. Sure, they're cousins and I can understand Alm wanting a brotherly connection with someone, but Berkut used Doma's power not once but twice. being close to wiping out every single soldier of the Deliverance and then sacrificing his lover for power.

I get that they were going for a tragic villain, but he comes across as an angry child more than anything, and it bothers me Alm doesn't call him out on it, but rather just wants to forgive and forget. It strikes me as the writers telling me what to feel rather than havng it come organically.

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Thane

[B.Leu]

Seems like the game high level in everything. That's good to hear.

[Thane]

12 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

Seems like the game high level in everything. That's good to hear.

Except actual gameplay.