I love the storytelling

[Ertrick36]

I obviously can't speak on the actual writing aside from what I know of the original game, but the presentation does seem nice.  I'm of the opinion that Awakening had better presentation than Fates, because most scenes actually have animations and involve the minor characters more often (even if it's really just for them to cut in and offer a line expressing their support or feelings).  With a mix of the anime cutscenes, in-game animated cutscenes, and the fact that minor characters will have background chatter from time to time, along with base conversations, I'll at least say they're doing a superb job of making the story of Echoes feel less static and egocentric (i.e. involving only the main characters, while the minor ones just kinda help in the background).

17 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

One thing I disliked about Fates is that characters seemed to exist in a vacuum. 

I really hope IS can keep these elements in mind for FE Switch. World-building isn't a one-and-done gimmick!

Yup.  That's the biggest problem I had with Fates, and that's including some of the more lackluster characters and the very lackluster story.  I think if the elements from this game were applied to Fates, it'd really give the best characters a chance to truly shine and the worst characters could at least feel more like people than just gimmicks.  It's especially a shame because I don't really like most of the main characters, and their involvement in the plot tends to be really bad or lacking anyway.

It also didn't help that the world in general just felt like a vacuum.  Every chapter just felt like an episode in a Saturday morning cartoon, albeit with more violence and drama.  It helps in this game that you're traveling along a map again, and have a frame of reference for how much time you're taking.  It doesn't feel all that episodic.

17 hours ago, KongDude88 said:

Not sure if I'll ever do the same, but for Awakening and Fates...

  Reveal hidden contents

Did people actually cry when characters like Flora or Emmeryn died? I see so many people talking about how emotional that was for them when it happened. It honestly didn't affect me really, as those characters didn't really make me sympathize with them. Also, when the hell did Flora learn to summon fire as an Ice child anyways? Whatever this is getting off topic.

(I should really stop getting my sources from youtube comments)

I hope this game really makes me feel something and I'm sure it will with the voices. Sad noises and "no!"s doesn't really do it for me...

 

Spoiler

I cried for neither.  Then again, I don't cry or tear up too often in video games (MGS3 and Undertale are the only examples I can think of at the moment), but I can appreciate good drama.  I don't think it has much to do with presentation, as even books can make me cry, but more to do with the fact that they're not too well written.  Though Emmeryn's death at least meant something (up until fan-service-pass ruined it), so you don't need to feel sad to appreciate it.  Flora's was purely for shock value, and it was written in a very shitty way, no matter which path you played first.  There's no reason she should've killed herself, and like you said, it makes no sense how she's able to self-immolate with magic.  It was forced and pontless, so it left no impact at all.

Even in Gaiden, Rudolf's death held a lot of significance.  I think at the very least I'll appreciate it as much as Emmeryn's death, though given certain plot details and the fact that it happens much later, I'll probably appreciate it more.

 

[Thane]

5 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

It also didn't help that the world in general just felt like a vacuum.  Every chapter just felt like an episode in a Saturday morning cartoon, albeit with more violence and drama.  It helps in this game that you're traveling along a map again, and have a frame of reference for how much time you're taking.  It doesn't feel all that episodic.

While there is no comparison to how Fates' story was told, Shadows of Valentia has this issue as well; some maps simply don't have any dialogue either before or after the battle and then move on after defeating the generic boss.

[Ertrick36]

2 minutes ago, Thane said:

While there is no comparison to how Fates' story was told, Shadows of Valentia has this issue as well; some maps simply don't have any dialogue either before or after the battle and then move on after defeating the generic boss.

Gonna play devil's advocate here.

Would you rather have a whole ten minute scene dedicated to demonstrating why you have to fight some random ass bandits, complete with nonsense filler dialogue about how the characters feel tired or whatever, or would you instead just like to get the bandit fight over with to get to the actual plot points?  Perhaps we don't need an intro and outro for every single fight.  Maybe not nothing at all, but we don't need a five minute cutscene building up to a random bandit fight or some equally trivial diversion.

While I'm well aware that Echoes probably has issues, it still feels more like a world than Fates does.  At least we know what the continent's freakin' name is.  And we and our foes are traversing along a general map of the continent, so we know we're actually in the world and not in some mystical safe realm where we can teleport anywhere at anytime.  In that sense, I think the world is demonstrated well enough through the gameplay that a narrative isn't particularly necessary all the time.  Unlike Fates.

[Armagon]

19 hours ago, KongDude88 said:

Not sure if I'll ever do the same, but for Awakening and Fates...

  Hide contents

Did people actually cry when characters like Flora or Emmeryn died? I see so many people talking about how emotional that was for them when it happened. It honestly didn't affect me really, as those characters didn't really make me sympathize with them. Also, when the hell did Flora learn to summon fire as an Ice child anyways? Whatever this is getting off topic.

(I should really stop getting my sources from youtube comments)

I hope this game really makes me feel something and I'm sure it will with the voices. Sad noises and "no!"s doesn't really do it for me...

Spoiler

I didn't cry for either, and both were pretty bad tbh. Emmeryn's death lost all it's impact when we found out she never actually died and Flora's was just stupid. I will give Emmeryn's death points for not being shock value.

 

In general, i never really cried when it came to plot-related character deaths. I didn't cry when Sigurd and friends got rekt, i didn't cry when Emmeryn "died", and i didn't cry when Flora died. The only death i remember that made me cry (or rather, tear up) was Ninian's death.

 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 hour ago, Thane said:

Except actual gameplay.

Spoiler

After spending like 40 turns on that one fucking desert map with a billion archers in it, baiting with Leon until most of them were dead, I can agree with this wholeheartedly. I couldn't get close to that castle because of the desert, and when I do everyone dies in to all the arrows.

35 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Gonna play devil's advocate here.

Would you rather have a whole ten minute scene dedicated to demonstrating why you have to fight some random ass bandits, complete with nonsense filler dialogue about how the characters feel tired or whatever, or would you instead just like to get the bandit fight over with to get to the actual plot points?  Perhaps we don't need an intro and outro for every single fight.  Maybe not nothing at all, but we don't need a five minute cutscene building up to a random bandit fight or some equally trivial diversion.

While I'm well aware that Echoes probably has issues, it still feels more like a world than Fates does.  At least we know what the continent's freakin' name is.  And we and our foes are traversing along a general map of the continent, so we know we're actually in the world and not in some mystical safe realm where we can teleport anywhere at anytime.  In that sense, I think the world is demonstrated well enough through the gameplay that a narrative isn't particularly necessary all the time.  Unlike Fates.

I would have liked some of those random bosses to have a small pre-battle speech about their motives. Sometimes I'm not sure if they're actually Rigelian troops until I fight them or I check.

[Ertrick36]

1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I would have liked some of those random bosses to have a small pre-battle speech about their motives. Sometimes I'm not sure if they're actually Rigelian troops until I fight them or I check.

I'd prefer it most if they were done like the first few paralogues of Awakening after Donnel's, where we get a couple of short dialogue scenes quickly explaining the situation, then cut to battle, and then get a short dialogue scene after.  Or even like the one scene we saw of the localized version of Echoes with Mae and Boey, where they just have some short-lived banter about the enemies.  Throw in some boss dialogue when applicable, and I'd say it's a perfect little filler chapter.

[Thane]

1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

Gonna play devil's advocate here.

Would you rather have a whole ten minute scene dedicated to demonstrating why you have to fight some random ass bandits, complete with nonsense filler dialogue about how the characters feel tired or whatever, or would you instead just like to get the bandit fight over with to get to the actual plot points?  Perhaps we don't need an intro and outro for every single fight.  Maybe not nothing at all, but we don't need a five minute cutscene building up to a random bandit fight or some equally trivial diversion.

While I'm well aware that Echoes probably has issues, it still feels more like a world than Fates does.  At least we know what the continent's freakin' name is.  And we and our foes are traversing along a general map of the continent, so we know we're actually in the world and not in some mystical safe realm where we can teleport anywhere at anytime.  In that sense, I think the world is demonstrated well enough through the gameplay that a narrative isn't particularly necessary all the time.  Unlike Fates.

Like I said, nothing can compare to Fates' storytelling; it's beyond horrendous. Shadows of Valentia offers some really neat worldbuilding and gives the world plenty of flavor.

However, it's still an issue when you are dumped into a map fighting a generic boss on a reused map with absolutely no dialogue. You're invading an enemy nation, but sometimes you might as well be facing bandits, and that's a problem.

1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

  Hide contents

After spending like 40 turns on that one fucking desert map with a billion archers in it, baiting with Leon until most of them were dead, I can agree with this wholeheartedly. I couldn't get close to that castle because of the desert, and when I do everyone dies in to all the arrows.

 

Are you done with the game? Because without spoiling too much I can say that it gets worse.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

3 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

I'd prefer it most if they were done like the first few paralogues of Awakening after Donnel's, where we get a couple of short dialogue scenes quickly explaining the situation, then cut to battle, and then get a short dialogue scene after.  Or even like the one scene we saw of the localized version of Echoes with Mae and Boey, where they just have some short-lived banter about the enemies.  Throw in some boss dialogue when applicable, and I'd say it's a perfect little filler chapter.

Maybe it's because of the linearity of the paths, but I feel like everything is a lot more cohesive in Echoes compared to Awakening or Fates. The fights flow into each other, compared to episodic feel of the Awakening/Fates fights.

2 minutes ago, Thane said:

Are you done with the game? Because without spoiling too much I can say that it gets worse.

Nope, and I don't know if my body is ready lol. I'm playing on Hard blind, too. I just broke through Tatara's dam defense (Hold Back on the Royal Sword was MVP for disabling Delthea), and Celica is sitting right outside her last fight in chapter 3.

[Crimson Red]

On 4/23/2017 at 8:16 PM, Leif said:

Are there any overt anime cliches in Echoes? I sure hope not. 

wouldn't get your hopes up

nothing made me terribly cringe though, just small cringes here and there, and I'm usually sensitive to that stuff... compared to some people, anyway

 

EDIT: I also agree that I'd rather just get on with a super boring fight on a reused map etc. than have to deal with a bunch of stupid filler dialog and such

obv it's not as good as it could be but you have to understand. i thought the FE series was dead and expected the next game to be complete crap. out of a stupid sense of obligation that I myself dislike I forced myself to play the game, thinking it might be horrible, despite knowing it was a remake of Gaiden and having liked Gaiden, but it was actually decent.

I think the phrase is "beggars can't be choosers", which is perhaps ironic because I'm "choosing" not to complain, not not-complaining because there isn't anything to complain about, lol

Edited May 7, 2017 by Crimson Red