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Then and now...Awakening


Harvey
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So I have decided to play Awakening in beginner classic just to see how the game has aged compared to the later games. To be honest, I actually wanted to play Hector normal on FE7 but my data got corrupted so...yeah, Awakening.

Despite how Fates fixed some of the issues that Awakening has including the pair up, I still love this game very much not only because its the first FE game I've played but also that it does a lot of things right that fates didn't do much.

For startes, I love the flexibility of reclassing in this one. Since reclassing always resets your units to level 1 and gives opportunity to try out other classes without any hassle, I love how in this one you can choose who you love to choose and that you can't face  rng screwed and all unlike in Conquest alone where its very possible that some units can get RNG screwed...like Laslow for instance.

While Fates tries to add a little spice to the reclassing thing, its less flexible and a bit annoying since in Conquest, resources are limited for that kind of thing to even start on investment and some units are forced to be  reclassed when using them unlike in Awakening where you don't need to do that immediately unless playing on harder modes. 

In my first playthrough of Awakening, I screwed up on Reclassing because I made Virion a Wyvern Rider and Henry a Berserker. I didn't see the point of it on my first time playing. Now doing it again, I'm really surprised that Sthal does perfectly as a swordmaster and how awesome the dark flier class is...epecially galeforce being a thing.

I don't like how people complain that if a kid can't get galeforce, the kid's useless and all. Galeforce as fun as the skill is for clearing maps, is such a pain to get it in the first place. But it is rewarding nonetheless...although the skill is a bit overpowered as I was able to beat the game mostly with just Lucina having galeforce. 

I now understand by what some mean with its maps being bland but I still had fun with them and there are some maps that are very creative and sometimes, the objective to be done isn't necessarily the real objective to do and that feeling of doing something else is quite fun. Like that Ambivalence chapter..isn't about just defeating the commander for example. Its to get Severa that's the real challenge even though it can be annoying since she's an NPC till she talks with Holland(this issue can be fixed by using rescue staves though). That map where you get Gerome is quite creative to say the least in terms of how . 

From the way I see it, this is about as close as Fire Emblem can get to Final Fantasy Tactics only more simplified and fun.

Character wise, I now love new units that I haven't gotten earlier. Owain is simply amazing and a lot of his supports are awesome! Stahl plays the average guy just about right though if you ask me, he's really not that average. Cynthia is..alright I guess though her support with Owain is pretty funny. Gregor is quite cool as a unit and Mangs was right, dude's fine for what he is and I like his support with Lon'qu.

The only character that I have mixed feelings here is Lucina. Her design is great, as a unit, she's arguable better than her own father. But her character just is..too cliche or not anywhere as good as say Inigo or Owain.

I don't understand what people mean that Awakening has no character development since Chrom goes through a lot of it and the same goes for units like Lon'qu and Ricken etc. And even then, the support conversations make it so that the characters are quite likable.

I tried using Miriel and really....I just can't seem to get used to her so I benched her in favor of Ricken. I like Ricken better because Ricken is just better and since you can again use anyone you like, its all the more better.

I still love the new interfaces that this game introduced that are still present in later games. Like how you can find out how close enemy units can come to you for example. 

I thought that I wouldn't like this game as much as others now that later games obviously improved on Awakening but surprisingly, Its still addicting enough for me to wanting me to play it again sometime. I might try out lunatic when it comes to it. 

And for any awakening hater out there...I mean there's not a lot that I can say that might change you mind about the game except this fact that had awakening not sold well, FE wouldn't have been to where it is now.

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4 hours ago, Harvey said:

I don't understand what people mean that Awakening has no character development since Chrom goes through a lot of it

But in the end he is not willing to sacrifice Robin whatsoever despite the fact that Grima reduced his daughter's world to utter ruin. If he kills Grima, then afterwards he goes "well Grima might resurrect again, but some other hero will come and take care of that". But Lucina proves that light will not always triumph over darkness- in her world it didn't and everybody died. It's a fluke she and her friends escaped.

Plus, how many souls in Plegia were sacrificed to the Grima cult? How many died in the fight against Validar's Plegia? How many were killed in Risen attacks? Why don't you care about them Chrom? Ask yourself, what would they want? (Assuming they weren't blind MU devotees too.)

If Chrom was like "Well I don't want you to have to kill yourself Robin, but at the same time, destroying Grima forever would be so good for the world. I abstain and leave the choice in your hands." Then we could say development.

I understand being willing to give away the Fire Emblem towards the beginning, when he doesn't realize it's important, but beyond Emmeryn, I don't see much character development in the plot. How does he develop in Valm? All he does is clash with Walhart and declares his ideals are different from his. But Chrom experiences no true drama/trauma that alters his ideals or which has him to clinging to them despite every terrible reason to forsake them.

Maybe you're talking supports, in which case, I have nothing to say and will let your opinions stand.

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

Like how you can find out how close enemy units can come to you for example. 

Path of Radiance began this, not Awakening. The only new addition was the the ability to see the range of all units at once while still being able to single out units (I don't think SD or NM had that).

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

For startes, I love the flexibility of reclassing in this one. Since reclassing always resets your units to level 1 and gives opportunity to try out other classes without any hassle, I love how in this one you can choose who you love to choose and that you can't face  rng screwed and all unlike in Conquest alone where its very possible that some units can get RNG screwed...like Laslow for instance.

For RNG screwage, yeah I can see Awakening being better. But for skills learning, Fates makes it so much easier. Of course if you want to learn a metric ton of skills, then it is worse sans DLC buying so you can afford those Eternal Seals.

As for flexibility. The reduction in class count from 3 to 2 per character for most was a restriction. But with marriage you can get that back to 3, and Friendship may or may not (CQ Benny) offer a 4th class option. Of course, grinding supports can be tedious, though it is possible on CQ with My Castle battles. Of course, making marriages involves other considerations, so you may end up not getting a Partner class for a given unit either. For children, they ultimately are less flexible, being able to only get 5 classes at most as opposed to 6. You can buy unlimited seals online from anyone with a level 3 Shop by the way.

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4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Plus, how many souls in Plegia were sacrificed to the Grima cult? How many died in the fight against Validar's Plegia? How many were killed in Risen attacks? Why don't you care about them Chrom? Ask yourself, what would they want? (Assuming they weren't blind MU devotees too.)

To be fair, he has to care about the people living in the present so that the ones in future can survive. Also, wasn't it revealed that he was killed in the future?

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Path of Radiance began this, not Awakening. The only new addition was the the ability to see the range of all units at once while still being able to single out units (I don't think SD or NM had that).

Oh sorry my bad. Though I meant that purple squares when you press x.

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

for skills learning, Fates makes it so much easier.

I find it a bit stressful though. I mean, if you want Camilla to get sol, you have to support her with Selena to get A+ and then get the class and that can take a lot of time to do. On top of this, you also have to avoid maxing out her level before its too late.

 

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6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

But in the end he is not willing to sacrifice Robin whatsoever despite the fact that Grima reduced his daughter's world to utter ruin. If he kills Grima, then afterwards he goes "well Grima might resurrect again, but some other hero will come and take care of that". But Lucina proves that light will not always triumph over darkness- in her world it didn't and everybody died. It's a fluke she and her friends escaped.

Plus, how many souls in Plegia were sacrificed to the Grima cult? How many died in the fight against Validar's Plegia? How many were killed in Risen attacks? Why don't you care about them Chrom? Ask yourself, what would they want? (Assuming they weren't blind MU devotees too.)

If Chrom was like "Well I don't want you to have to kill yourself Robin, but at the same time, destroying Grima forever would be so good for the world. I abstain and leave the choice in your hands." Then we could say development.

I actually liked this about Chrom. Unlike so many protagonists in fiction, Chrom isn't just the standard, pure-hearted hero who always acts in the best interest of the greater good. He is selfish, and that makes him a lot more human and it makes him relateable. Maybe for Chrom, losing Robin would be just as bad as if they whole world were destroyed. 

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11 hours ago, Harvey said:

I now understand by what some mean with its maps being bland but I still had fun with them and there are some maps that are very creative and sometimes, the objective to be done isn't necessarily the real objective to do and that feeling of doing something else is quite fun. Like that Ambivalence chapter..isn't about just defeating the commander for example. Its to get Severa that's the real challenge even though it can be annoying since she's an NPC till she talks with Holland(this issue can be fixed by using rescue staves though). That map where you get Gerome is quite creative to say the least in terms of how .

I get what you mean. A decent part of the maps in Awakening, especially the Paralogue maps, has secondary objectives besides the main objective that gets you something additional for the trouble (and a sense of achievement) for doing them in addition to the main objective, and I still think Tiki's Paralogue is one of the best Defense/Hold-The-Line Maps of Fire Emblem without actually having that as a main objective.

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I was just replaying a little of it myself and the presentation of the game is pretty great. 

The reclassing and the vast amount of supports make this game extremely enjoyable to replay for me as I can try different teams, approach the game differently and also find out new things about the characters, world and other curiosities of the story.

This is by far the FE I've most played and will soon start another campaign. 

The characters really do develop and a lot about them is only found on specific supports. Sometimes people say some of them are focused too much on their gimmikick (Olivia's shyness, Lon'qu's fear of woman, etc) and while there are some instances, the vast majority for me simply feel like they have a coherent and well rounded presentation. 

I agree a lot of maps offer little tactical terrain. Pair Up can be broken sometimes so now I always replay Awakening without using it (you still can get Dual Attack/Guard from adjacent characters) and the game becomes more challenging. Reclassing in Fates is far more flexible as you can really go crazy with some units but Awakening is perfectly good as well. I would like Fates' system for Cherche for example, as her class sets are really terrible. And the kids get ALL class sets from their parents which makes them extremely more flexible and OP than their parents ever will.

Getting Skills in Fates is far less grindy than in Awakening. If Camilla were to get Sol in Awakening, for example, she would need the Mercenary class set already with her, as you can't get any class from anyone. Then if she's, say, a lvl 10 Malig Knight, you would have to lvl her to 15 to be able to reclass to a lvl 1 Hero (and grind 4 more levels) or if you didn't go lvl 15, then she can only reclass to a lvl 1 Mercenary and grind all the way to lvl 5 Hero. While in Fates she would remain a lvl 10 promoted unit and would only need 3 level ups to get Sol (2 for the Mercenary skills and 1 for Sol, as she's already over lvl 5 promoted). 

In Awakening each time you reclass not only always bring you back to lvl 1, it diminishes the EXP you gain from kills (down to a minimum of 8 EXP per kill), so later it can really become grindy. Sure, Eternal Seals maybe should give 10 extra lvls instead of 5, but really, even in Birthright or Awakening itself, if you want to absolutely max a character you'll need the gold DLC. 

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The game is really fun to play. Hell, i still have a go on it once in a while. It is my most played game on the 3DS (well over 700 hours clocked in). So i still find it a good time. Yeah the maps are a bit lacking, but everything else is fun, so i dont notice it half the time.

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i liked awakening a lot when I first played it but for some reason I never finished it again after that

i remember playing it a lot and enjoying most of it but since then every time i've tried to play it i have fun for the first few chapters and then get bored pretty soon

i don't think i've gotten past chapter 10 ever since I finished it the first time, even when I tried playing on casual mode, which was honestly a lot more fun at first

even though I liked it a lot the first time i guess there's not really much I like about awakening

the story's kinda silly and none of it really stands out to me, good or bad, until some parts at the end that are kinda really dumb. the only thing I really dislike about the story before the ending bits is how chrom and his buddies act like robin is a genius and all every time they do the anything, that kinda gets annoying. i didnt really like anything much either though, except that I thought chrom was kinda funny sometimes. i did like the part where you meet tiki again though! i played awakening before shadow dragon which was probably a bad idea since it makes that scene a lot less interesting but i liked the song there! i didn't actually like tiki in awakening but the remix of her song was really neat, that might be my favorite thing about awakening. other than that though I don't like many of the songs much. i do kinda like the leitmotif awakening uses in a lot of its song, although i dont actually remember if there was any reason it was in so many songs or if it was just there a lot for the hell of it.  either way it's short and kinda neat I like it

i think the reason i dont like it as much might be because i dont really like any of the characters in awakening. at first I liked most of them at least a little but now the only character i can genuinely say I really like is noire, and i'm not really sure why i like her so much. i do like how all the characters have a lot of dialogue though! not like the supports and stuff but just that they can talk a lot in battles and stuff. i think echoes is gonna do even better with that, since the characters have lines for like everything, it adds so much more character to them.  i especially like what they did with the critical quotes, that was really neat and adds a lot of personality to the characters. but the thing is i don't actually like most of the supports much. a lot of them just sort of come off as "hey wanna see my character gimmick i'll show you mine if you show me yours". like there are some that are cool but then there are things like "gaius asks panne to help him get candy out of a tree until they get married" and "libra and cordelia carry boxes until they get married". that's another thing i dont like actually, all the characters have to get married if they can support with opposite gender characters. like, in fe7, wil and lyn can support and they don't get married or anything they just talk to each other about stuff. but in awakening if people are gonna talk to each other they have to be able to get married unless they're the same gender. thats pretty lame tbh.

there were probably other things I didn't like, like the lack of maps where you do things other than just kill people or kill a boss, but i don't really remember them since i haven't played awakening in a while and i don't have a 3ds anymore. i do want to play it though but only because noire is in it and not in any other game. i guess i kinda sorta don't like awakening but maybe I would like it more if i played it again but i probably can't do that for a while

no one is actually gonna read this whole thing but i kinda enjoyed writing that

12 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Path of Radiance began this, not Awakening. The only new addition was the the ability to see the range of all units at once while still being able to single out units (I don't think SD or NM had that).

nah the DS games definitely had that

you just had to press x and you could see all the unit ranges, but you could still choose individual ones to see their range

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4 hours ago, Lanko said:

I was just replaying a little of it myself and the presentation of the game is pretty great. 

The reclassing and the vast amount of supports make this game extremely enjoyable to replay for me as I can try different teams, approach the game differently and also find out new things about the characters, world and other curiosities of the story.

This is by far the FE I've most played and will soon start another campaign. 

The characters really do develop and a lot about them is only found on specific supports. Sometimes people say some of them are focused too much on their gimmikick (Olivia's shyness, Lon'qu's fear of woman, etc) and while there are some instances, the vast majority for me simply feel like they have a coherent and well rounded presentation. 

I agree a lot of maps offer little tactical terrain. Pair Up can be broken sometimes so now I always replay Awakening without using it (you still can get Dual Attack/Guard from adjacent characters) and the game becomes more challenging. Reclassing in Fates is far more flexible as you can really go crazy with some units but Awakening is perfectly good as well. I would like Fates' system for Cherche for example, as her class sets are really terrible. And the kids get ALL class sets from their parents which makes them extremely more flexible and OP than their parents ever will.

Getting Skills in Fates is far less grindy than in Awakening. If Camilla were to get Sol in Awakening, for example, she would need the Mercenary class set already with her, as you can't get any class from anyone. Then if she's, say, a lvl 10 Malig Knight, you would have to lvl her to 15 to be able to reclass to a lvl 1 Hero (and grind 4 more levels) or if you didn't go lvl 15, then she can only reclass to a lvl 1 Mercenary and grind all the way to lvl 5 Hero. While in Fates she would remain a lvl 10 promoted unit and would only need 3 level ups to get Sol (2 for the Mercenary skills and 1 for Sol, as she's already over lvl 5 promoted). 

In Awakening each time you reclass not only always bring you back to lvl 1, it diminishes the EXP you gain from kills (down to a minimum of 8 EXP per kill), so later it can really become grindy. Sure, Eternal Seals maybe should give 10 extra lvls instead of 5, but really, even in Birthright or Awakening itself, if you want to absolutely max a character you'll need the gold DLC. 

 

I have to remind you that in Awakening's instance reclassing characters only need to be level 10 of a promoted class to reclass into another promoted class so you have incorrect information.  Although you would be right about Camilia needing the four levels to get Sol you are incorrect as to the pathway required unless you wanted her level 15 malig knight skill but otherwise not as grindy as you think it might be only needing to get to level 10 of the promoted class.

 

Personally I find Fates reclass system a joke.  Sure it's nice to get skills quickly on paper but reality is not so hot.  Plus if you want Camilia to have Sol just buy it from someone who already got her Sol, problem solved no relcassing required.

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34 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Its worth noting that I've replayed this on normal classic. I'm not sure if I should try out lunatic even on casual mode...

Have you played HM much at all?

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3 minutes ago, Barrel said:

Have you played HM much at all?

Yeah I've played HM before though that was in casual and I beated it...but that was a long time ago.

I've just discovered that harder modes will only make the enemies attack you as soon as they appear unlike normal.

my memories sometimes...

 

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3 minutes ago, Barrel said:

I guess I'd tackle HM first, then LM. One thing at a time after all!

The reason why I'm on fence on harder modes is because I don't want to end up screaming like hell for something that intense and what not. I mean...how can i persuade myself to play Conquest!Hard if normal itself  as hard as hard mode? 

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4 hours ago, TheSilentChloey said:

 

I have to remind you that in Awakening's instance reclassing characters only need to be level 10 of a promoted class to reclass into another promoted class so you have incorrect information.  Although you would be right about Camilia needing the four levels to get Sol you are incorrect as to the pathway required unless you wanted her level 15 malig knight skill but otherwise not as grindy as you think it might be only needing to get to level 10 of the promoted class.

 

Personally I find Fates reclass system a joke.  Sure it's nice to get skills quickly on paper but reality is not so hot.  Plus if you want Camilia to have Sol just buy it from someone who already got her Sol, problem solved no relcassing required.

Oh yes, a mistake. I think 15 (or 20, I don't exactly remember) is if you want to reclass to reset the level but wish to remain in the same class. 

I felt pretty grind even on lvl 10, as you go back to 1 with reduced EXP gain and then get the lvl 5 skill... but if you want to reclass and stay promoted, you have to go at least to 10 again. If feels kinda of a waste to go 10 without getting the lvl 15 skill, though. Feels like you have to grind way more levels. On a normal campaign is not doable as you most likely won't get both skills in more than one character and funneling EXP to that character. It's only doable if you wish to beat postgame content and min-max everything, in which case you just AFK farm Lost Bloodlines 3 over and over...

I liked Fates system exactly for the reasons you disliked hah. 2-4 levels and you get the skills without needing to gain 15 others again (or more, if you also want some of the unpromoted skills). Sure, you can buy skills and never reclass, but I personally do runs without doing this, and only start buying skills postgame for extra content, not for the main campaign, so the quick skill learning on Fates reclass is more than welcome.

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1 hour ago, Harvey said:

The reason why I'm on fence on harder modes is because I don't want to end up screaming like hell for something that intense and what not. I mean...how can i persuade myself to play Conquest!Hard if normal itself  as hard as hard mode? 

Eh I reckon you're psyching yourself out too much personally; just give it a shot! Gotta start somewhere.

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2 hours ago, Barrel said:

Eh I reckon you're psyching yourself out too much personally; just give it a shot! Gotta start somewhere.

hmm...idk...right now I'm thinking about trying out the first FE game, Thracia 776 and then of course Echoes.

Thanks for the suggestion though!

 

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5 hours ago, Harvey said:

Its worth noting that I've replayed this on normal classic. I'm not sure if I should try out lunatic even on casual mode...

 

There's really no reason to do Awakening Lunatic for anything other than bragging rights over beating the first four chapters. Awakening Lunatic's not even hard, it's just annoying and a total test of patience. It's basically a fight against the RNG until you get to the world map.

Even if you decide not to grind, the first four chapters are way harder than the next couple of chapters for no discernible reason.

It's one of my main gripes against Awakening. There's no "fun" difficulties. Normal and Hard are way too easy, and Lunatic is just a test of patience. The normal enemies in the first few chapters go from "Noticeably weaker than your normal units" on Hard to "Everyone's stronger than Frederick" on Lunatic and Lunatic+.

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@Slumber well...you'd still need to beat it to unlock lunatic+ though...but again, I don't consider myself THAT hardcore of a gamer. I just play it for fun. 

Maybe I'm scared of it because unlike fates, you can't change the difficulty settings here so again...

To me, unless if its something like how FE7 did having new modes unlocked and what not, I don't really see the point of harder modes other than just going to hard mode over normal.

 

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9 hours ago, Slumber said:

It's basically a fight against the RNG

[...]

to "Everyone's stronger than Frederick" on Lunatic and Lunatic+.

i mean neither of these statements are true at all but okay then

9 hours ago, Harvey said:

To me, unless if its something like how FE7 did having new modes unlocked and what not, I don't really see the point of harder modes other than just going to hard mode over normal.

Lunatic+ needs to be unlocked by completing vanilla Lunatic first, if that's what you're interested in.

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4 hours ago, Barrel said:

i mean neither of these statements are true at all but okay then

How are neither of those statements true? You have to reset constantly to get enemy skill combinations that aren't just completely broken, and by about chapter 3, most normal enemies(The Knights specifically) have near maxed out Defense, ~40 HP, speed that will keep Frederick from doubling, skill that allows them to hit reliably, and, then on Lunatic+, Pavise+ and Aegis+, which will further halve any minuscule damage you could put out. AND enemies start getting COUNTER on chapter 3 of Lunatic+.

There are situations in early game Lunatic and Lunatic+ where the chapters are just made virtually impossible by RNG(More so Lunatic+ than Lunatic, but it's still there to some degree on Lunatic).

It is far and away the worst handling of higher difficulties in the franchise.

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1 minute ago, Slumber said:

How are neither of those statements true? You have to reset constantly to get enemy skill combinations that aren't just completely broken, and by about chapter 3, most normal enemies(The Knights specifically) have near maxed out Defense, ~40 HP, speed that will keep Frederick from doubling, skill that allows them to hit reliably, and, then on Lunatic+, Pavise+ and Aegis+, which will further halve any minuscule damage you could put out. AND enemies start getting COUNTER on chapter 3 of Lunatic+.

what

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