Adult Tiki Unit Build

[rockocalypse]

Hey, all. I grinded out my Adult Tiki as a 3* to level 40, then a 4* to level 40, and finally a 5* at level 40 to Maximize her sp for that sweet skill inheritance.

Now, I already checked the Skill inheritance discussion thread, the Sire's theorycrafting thread, and the "Not sure what skill to inherit or who to inherit it from? Read this! (Please read before posting)" thread, which seemed to just list what skills were obtainable from which 4*s.

So, I decided to make my own thread to develope the best Adult Tiki Science can offer. Mine is Atk+ Spd-. And I'm going to be a stickler on keeping Lightning Breath+

Spoiler

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by rockocalypse

[BANRYU]

My main girl / mascot, I'm in

I did a kinda synopsized analysis of her here. I might have a little too much preference for Defiant Atk though haha ;; Vantage Tiki also likes having Fury, though I'm not sure what good A-skills for a QuickRip set would be.... ...ooh, maybe Ike's Heavy Blade could work well there...?

@Sire also did a pretty in-depth look at possible skill sets for her but I find the post at the moment ;; 

Edited April 27, 2017 by BANRYU

[Arcanite]

Just now, BANRYU said:

Ike's Heavy Blade could work well there...?

Is heavy blade inheritable by non-sword units? I mean the name does say Heavy Blade

[BANRYU]

2 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Is heavy blade inheritable by non-sword units? I mean the name does say Heavy Blade

Yep, it's indeed all non-staff weapon types lol. Mages can use it too lmao

[Elieson]

20 speed.

 

Twenty. Ephraim doubles that :/

[BANRYU]

38 minutes ago, Elieson said:

20 speed.

 

Twenty. Ephraim doubles that :/

Yeah, speed bane is doing her few if any favors :0 lets her build up Bonfire in one round if she gets doubled and has QuickRip though, hey. Tiki really shouldn't be dealing with Ephraim under any circumstances anyway though.

Her bulk isn't terrible though, mine was able to not only survive but counter-kill an only-slightly-weakened Subaki. And... yeah to be fair, Subaki's Atk and Res suck, but that's through a double and SaphLance's TriAdept, so...

The main problem is her Speed and Res leave her pretty vulnerable on two important fronts, and as a dragon/infantry unit she's weak to a lot of prominent weapon types (Falcion is only getting more common, Julia is obv very strong in general and ORKOs through WTD, and Poison Daggers do her no favors even with any-range counters).

I suppose it's not too surprising that a lot of people like TriAdept on her, although she can handle non-Falchion swords pretty well too. Mine is serving as sort of a discount-Eirika since she has to spend a lot of time at the rear due to her weaknesses.

So yeah.... I don't know if she's the WORST dragon, but she's definitely not the best... (outclassed pretty hard between Nowi and her younger incarnation) Though she has her uses. She's a pretty good budget Takumi counter with Quick Riposte. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by BANRYU

[LuxSpes]

The way I'd build her would probably be:

Assist: Reciprocal Aid or a movement assist
Special: Bonfire
Passive A: Fury 3 
Passive B: Quick Riposte 3
Passive C: Flexible 

This makes her more of an enemy phase units where you abuse Quick Riposte to deal damage and replenish you HP with Reciprocal Aid on your phase  or finish the enemy. Fury helps mitigate the lower Spd and add more bulk and attack power.

Depending on your team set-up, you can substitute Fury for Triangle Adept to make her an anti-green unit at the cost of guaranteeing that she won't be able to tank blue units.

[Arcanite]

1 hour ago, BANRYU said:

So yeah.... I don't know if she's the WORST dragon

Fae is the worst

Adult tiki beats her out by a little

On the other hand, Young tiki is basically superior Adult tiki so Fae will more than likely be used for dragon teams than Adult Tiki since most people sacrifice Adult Tiki's lightning breath to young tiki anyway.

Spoiler

Yeah yeah yeah, I said Fae is the worst

Boo hoo hoo its not that serious

 

[Silith13]

Still better then Oboro... (gets shot)

[Ice Dragon]

38 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Fae is the worst

+0 Fae [=] (Lightning Breath+, Triangle Adept 3, Quick Riposte 1) takes 6×2 damage from +10 Reinhardt [+Atk, -Spd] (Death Blow 3) +Hone Cavalry and one-round kills him back.

She just has a different role than the others.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[Ryu Yuki]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

+0 Fae [=] (Lightning Breath+, Triangle Adept 3, Quick Riposte 1 or S Speed +1) takes 6×2 damage from +10 Reinhardt [+Atk, -Spd] (Death Blow 3) +Hone Cavalry and one-round kills him back.

She just has a different role than the others.

I do feel her artwork is the worst though. Something about it just bothers me somehow.

But back to the topic, I feel like TA + GTB/QR Adult Tiki is the best variation of her. Simply because she actually does it better than Young Tiki could, by securing Julia kills that her younger counterpart don't quite manage to make. Her speed also really doesn't  matter at all against greens, because any axe-user needs 59 Atk to manage even a single point of damage against a neutral Adult Tiki and even the tome-users only do single digit damage until they hit 60 Atk or something. Basically, it's the one build she does better than Young Tiki, so if you don't want to simply have an inferior version of her younger self, it's the way to go. +Atk/+Res and -Spd are probably the best natures for this build, so what you have there even goes very well with it.

[chirp]

38 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Fae is the worst

I've drilled a vanilla Dragon squad from 1 to 40 (Ninian, Adult Tiki, Nowi and Fae), and Fae was my favorite. She's one of the few units I have able to tank magic and weapons equally well, and to do appreciable damage in return. Tiki is very fragile to magic, and Nowi is sometimes overkill, and sometimes useless. Fae is just right. 

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Ryu Yuki said:

I do feel her artwork is the worst though. Something about it just bothers me somehow.

I like her artwork third best after Ninian and Mystery Tiki. It's adorable, and I really like the use of flat black for contrast.

(Her JP voice, though, is easily the best out of everyone in the game. Hands down.)

[rockocalypse]

3 hours ago, BANRYU said:

I did a kinda synopsized analysis of her here. I might have a little too much preference for Defiant Atk though haha ;; Vantage Tiki also likes having Fury, though I'm not sure what good A-skills for a QuickRip set would be.... ...ooh, maybe Ike's Heavy Blade could work well there...?

@Sire also did a pretty in-depth look at possible skill sets for her but I find the post at the moment ;; 

Thanks for the info, forums have so much but its so scattered. Your multibuild has a lot to take into consideration. Though I myself am not comfortable with the defiant skills but they seem to be favored.

1 hour ago, Arcanite said:

Fae is the worst

Adult tiki beats her out by a little

Adult Tiki is also a red, and Fae is a green. So a red who beats a green "by a little" is probably saying more about the Green than it's saying good about the red. And I'm pro Adult Tiki.

1 hour ago, LuxSpes said:

The way I'd build her would probably be:

Assist: Reciprocal Aid or a movement assist
Special: Bonfire
Passive A: Fury 3 
Passive B: Quick Riposte 3
Passive C: Flexible 

Im surprised everyone's keeping bonfire on her, I always assumed everyone would be shouting Moonbow or the other version of Bonfire (Cant remember what its called. The one with the different cooldown). But I do enjoy the sounds of fury. Tho, she might get drained fast being a counterattack unit?

 

I was thinking Death Blow and Poison. But.... I always think that.
I also like anything to boost her def/res but im definitely going the Quick Riposte route and bonfire.

Edited April 27, 2017 by rockocalypse

[Ryu Yuki]

37 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I like her artwork third best after Ninian and Mystery Tiki. It's adorable, and I really like the use of flat black for contrast.

(Her JP voice, though, is easily the best out of everyone in the game. Hands down.)

Oh, that's kind of a surprise. Well, I suppose art style is subjective and something I don't find too appealing might be another person's cup of tea. I can respect those that genuinely love her in-game art, although I personally prefer the way her Cipher artworks went about it. Ninian has hands down the best in-game artwork though, followed by Tiny Tiki. Either way though, I do agree that she simply has a different role. She's an excellent Reinhardt tank and tanks mages very gracefully, which is really amazing when combined with Lightning Breath+. Would use her myself but... too bad she just refuses to drop for me, because I've only got one 4* version of her after 2 months and then she never appeared again.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Ryu Yuki

[LuxSpes]

1 minute ago, rockocalypse said:

Im surprised everyone's keeping bonfire on her, I always assumed everyone would be shouting Moonbow or the other version of Bonfire (Cant remember what its called. The one with the different cooldown). But I do enjoy the sounds of fury. Tho, she might get drained fast being a counterattack unit.

 

I was thinking Death Blow and Poison. But.... I always think that.
I also like anything to boost her def/res but im definitely going the Quick Riposte route and bonfire.

Well, with Quick Riposte and her low speed, Tiki is guaranteed to proc Bonfire by the end of the round if she's doubled on the enemy phase, so Moonbow's lower cooldown doesn't really make a difference and an opponent would need 56 res for Moonbow to do as much damage as Bonfire. As for Ignis, while it does a lot of damage, the higher cooldown means that you won't proc it in one round unless the opponent is using a brave weapon and doubling you.

And regarding Fury, that's why I recommended Reciprocal Aid on her and you can always use someone else with Ardent Sacrifice or Reciprocal Aid. You can also use Renewal in conjunction with Fury to increase her tankiness at the expanse of her offense.

Death Blow is preferred on units that can double, especially one with brave weapons. It really wouldn't help in Tiki's case since she's so slow. 

[Arcanite]

49 minutes ago, Silith13 said:

(gets shot)

Y̶e̶a̶h̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶s̶s̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶

Also, is everyone missing the part where I said

1 hour ago, Arcanite said:

On the other hand, Young tiki is basically superior Adult tiki so Fae will more than likely be used for dragon teams than Adult Tiki since most people sacrifice Adult Tiki's lightning breath to young tiki anyway.

But whatever I'm not here to argue anyway lol

Spoiler

Perhaps I should have said personal bias?

 

[BANRYU]

1 hour ago, Arcanite said:

Fae is the worst

Adult tiki beats her out by a little

On the other hand, Young tiki is basically superior Adult tiki so Fae will more than likely be used for dragon teams than Adult Tiki since most people sacrifice Adult Tiki's lightning breath to young tiki anyway.

  Reveal hidden contents

Yeah yeah yeah, I said Fae is the worst

Boo hoo hoo its not that serious

 

Yeah I mean... you kinda addressed this already I see, but as a lot of other people have noted Tiki has competition for her niche whereas Fae does not-- thus why I said that. But yeah... aaaaaanyway

49 minutes ago, Ryu Yuki said:

But back to the topic, I feel like TA + GTB/QR Adult Tiki is the best variation of her. Simply because she actually does it better than Young Tiki could, by securing Julia kills that her younger counterpart don't quite manage to make. Her speed also really doesn't  matter at all against greens, because any axe-user needs 59 Atk to manage even a single point of damage against a neutral Adult Tiki and even the tome-users only do single digit damage until they hit 60 Atk or something. Basically, it's the one build she does better than Young Tiki, so if you don't want to simply have an inferior version of her younger self, it's the way to go. +Atk/+Res and -Spd are probably the best natures for this build, so what you have there even goes very well with it.

That sounds like a good one. TA + GTB sounds like a bit of overkill to me, but I suppose it's the same principle as TA+Swordbreaker on Nowi... so I can see that being somewhat justified. (Regrettably I don't think mine could pull that off, being -Res haha ;; ...) And she does this better than y!Tiki presumably because of her naturally-occurring Lightning Breath and higher atk yeah?

36 minutes ago, rockocalypse said:

Thanks for the info, forums have so much but its so scattered. Your multibuild has a lot to take into consideration. Though I myself am not comfortable with the defiant skills but they seem to be favored.

Nahh you're right though, the Defiant skills are actually not that well-liked on the whole haha... I suppose I just have a taste for risky business =w= but in retrospect, it would have been better to consider other abilities than just that when doing a writeup on her. I will probably need to expand on some of those on my FEH wiki analyses of her I did...

38 minutes ago, rockocalypse said:

Im surprised everyone's keeping bonfire on her, I always assumed everyone would be shouting Moonbow or the other version of Bonfire (Cant remember what its called. The one with the different cooldown). But I do enjoy the sounds of fury. Tho, she might get drained fast being a counterattack unit?

The reason you want Bonfire is it does damage based off of her Defense stat, and generally any defense of 30 or more will outdamage Moonbow. Also you want Bonfire over the slower/more powerful variation (it's called Ignis) because Tiki's Lightning Breath+ makes the special countdown take longer-- Bonfire takes 4 turns instead of 3 with Lightning Breath+ or one of the Blade tomes equipped. And actually, this is a really good number for her, since after tanking 2 hits that she survives and returning fire with Quick Riposte, Bonfire is ready to go during the next player phase and can be used to nuke something else. Part of the reason I really like Defiant Atk on her, since she's usually in range of it after eating two attacks anyway (though granted, not always)-- taking out one foe and nuking another is half the opponent's team gone right there, and it's unlikely she'll need to fight again after that.

I suppose in that regard, Fury is also good, though to me having Fury + QuickRip is a bit counterintuitive, especially being a F2P player and Quick Riposte 3 being so expensive to teach. If you CAN manage quickrip 3 then you have significantly more leeway in terms of Fury's recoil, at least, though I wouldn't expect Tiki to be able to tank more than 1 round without healing support so I suppose it's fine in that regard anyway (suppose that's where RecipAid comes in). I suppose that build by @LuxSpes has more merit to it than I initially considered in light of that. 

Also, mobility skills are still quite good on Tiki; Mine having Swap was actually instrumental in helping me beat the Michalis lunatic GHB (Nino nukes the one nearby blue unit or something then Tiki swaps herself into position and tanks Mike and some red or something). So... yeah those have some use in my experience. 

[Ryu Yuki]

21 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

That sounds like a good one. TA + GTB sounds like a bit of overkill to me, but I suppose it's the same principle as TA+Swordbreaker on Nowi... so I can see that being somewhat justified. (Regrettably I don't think mine could pull that off, being -Res haha ;; ...) And she does this better than y!Tiki presumably because of her naturally-occurring Lightning Breath and higher atk yeah?

I mainly consider GTB a solid option because it prevents Adult Tiki from being doubled, which makes her tank the likes of a super-buffed Nino extremely well. Not to mention, Adult Tiki can also go on the offensive and one-round many of the threats instead of having to let herself be attacked first with QR. And yes, she does the job better than Young Tiki because of her superior innate Atk and Def stat. Young Tiki with TA3 and GTB will start to fail ORKOing a +Res Julia once she's 40+2, which isn't too rare if you have a bit of Skill Inheritance and a merged unit elsewhere on your team. Adult Tiki on the other hand shuts down Julia at any merge level with any kind of build (Except with a +Res 40+10 Warding Blow setup, and only when initiating against a neutral Adult Tiki, she will just barely survive with 4 HP) so she's a much safer bet. Her higher natural Def means Axe-users need 59 Atk to deal a single point of damage, and it makes her practically invincible against them. So yes, she handles greens extremely well with this setup and won't be impeded by Julia like Young Tiki potentially could be.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Ryu Yuki

[rockocalypse]

1 hour ago, LuxSpes said:

Well, with Quick Riposte and her low speed, Tiki is guaranteed to proc Bonfire by the end of the round if she's doubled on the enemy phase

6 minutes ago, Ryu Yuki said:

I mainly consider GTB a solid option because it prevents Adult Tiki from being doubled, which makes her tank the likes of a super-buffed Nino extremely well. 

 

So, I pulled 3 Sorens, and alot of thisTiki talk seems to be coming down her being doubled. Would Watersweep take away her ranged counter/ just ruin the quick Bonfire Proc and make Quick Riposte defunct(need to check if Quick Riposte is B)? Checked. Its a B. 

Edit:

Tiki is slow speed. What am I talking about

 

23 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

 

The reason you want Bonfire is it does damage based off of her Defense stat, and generally any defense of 30 or more will outdamage Moonbow.

Also, thanks for to you BANRYU for explaining why I really need bonfire and how its the skills working together that make it decent.

Edited April 27, 2017 by rockocalypse

[LuxSpes]

@BANRYU Reading your post made me realized that I completely forgot to take into account the +1 cooldown from Lightning Breath in my special analysis, though I do think that even with that, Bonfire is superior to Moonbow, especially considering most units have low resistance, though Moonbow has the advantage of being triggered in one round of combat.

Though I think that a build keeping Defiant Atk has merit. One thing that I think is important to remember is that you field a 4 man team, not a single unit, meaning that even if a build is better as a solo dueling build, in a different context, another one might be more useful.

For example, using Triangle Adept drastically reduce the number of units Tiki can beat, but it ensure that she takes minimal damage from the units you do beat and in a team where you have ways of dealing with Falchion and blues, it might be better to use that version as the team's dedicated Green wall and it allows her to survive encounters with Julia with more HP left.

1 minute ago, rockocalypse said:

So, I pulled 3 Sorens, and ALOT of Tiki talk seems to be coming down her being doubled. Would Watersweep take away her ranged counter/ just ruin the quick Bonfire Proc?

 

Also, thanks for to you BANRYU for explaining why I really need bonfire and how its the skills working together that make it decent.

Watersweep would be pointless on her since you need to be faster for the effect to take place AND it prevents counter attacks from mainly ranged enemies, that wouldn't counter attack Tiki anyway. And Tiki would prefer to be doubled as long as it is by units that deal minimal damage.

Also, pls send me one of those Sorens

[Shiro]

so seeing an adult tiki at +10 merge myself and I have a y tiki at + 9 I personally use fury quick riposte and threaten speed with an hp seal and lightning breath and if i had an adult tiki at +9 or +10 I would use the same build.

EDIT: this build is meant to take out one enemy unit like a mage like nino or almost any fire unit if you bait it out with your quick riposte which is what I do with my y tiki 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Shiro

[BANRYU]

@Ryu Yuki Yeah, I figured as much. That is very good to know, props on finding something that A!Tiki can beat Y!Tiki at! I feel my status as dragon master slipping... Do you have any objections if I submit that build to the FE Heroes wiki?

@rockocalypse NP man. Yeah, generally speaking, Moonbow is good, BUT it tends to be overrated-- It is rarely better than Draconic Aura, Bonfire, or Iceberg (depending on the unit and their stat strengths)... As a general rule, each of the top 4 procs (those listed) tends to correspond to a particular stat; Draconic Aura is good for units with high Atk, Bonfire with Def, Iceberg with Res, and (though unlike the others, it does not correspond to it) Moonbow with Spd (since these units rely on proc'ing often; it's also very good with the Wo Dao due to its low activation time). Moonbow is also good on units who lack the survivability to proc stronger stuff (Sophia comes to mind, though she also uses Draconic Aura and Iceberg well), or who hit so hard that other procs are generally unneeded or overkill (like Kagero). For a lot of units, though, they prefer one of the other three. 

@LuxSpes yeah man, I think one of the biggest (and most overlooked) thinks A!Tiki has going for her is that she's phenomenally cheap and easy to build-- my build of choice, DefAtk + QuickRip, only needs a 4* Subaki for the bare minimum of functionality, getting her Swap and QR2 alongside a weapon and proc that are already pretty much optimal for her and an A-skill that could definitely be worse, so all she really needs from there is a better aura to function as support in fights where she needs to hang back. That, to me, is the hidden edge she has over the other manaketes-- being so easy to effectively build (hell even Fury and TriAdept can be got from 4*s so unless you're shooting for QR3, there's nothing unduly expensive she really needs... although... I suppose this is technically also true of Nowi.... >3> Though Nowi doesn't come with a good proc so there's that I guess). Defiant Atk, Fury, and TriAdept are all pretty solid on her for sure.

Oh, likewise, permission to post your build to the FEH wiki, Lux?  

Edited April 28, 2017 by BANRYU

[LuxSpes]

1 minute ago, BANRYU said:

 

@LuxSpes yeah man, I think one of the biggest (and most overlooked) thinks A!Tiki has going for her is that she's phenomenally cheap and easy to build-- my build of choice, DefAtk + QuickRip, only needs a 4* Subaki for the bare minimum of functionality, getting her Swap and QR2 alongside a weapon and proc that are already pretty much optimal for her and an A-skill that could definitely be worse, so all she really needs from there is a better aura to function as support in fights where she needs to hang back. That, to me, is the hidden edge she has over the other manaketes-- being so easy to effectively build (hell even Fury and TriAdept can be got from 4*s so unless you're shooting for QR3, there's nothing unduly expensive she really needs). Defiant Atk, Fury, and TriAdept are all pretty solid on her for sure.

Oh, likewise, permission to post your build to the FEH wiki, Lux?  

Yeah, I have a 5* Tiki myself and I've given QR2 and Swap from a Subaki, as well as Reciprocal Aid and TA3. I just need to farm the SP to actually give her TA3. Next is probably be to give her Threaten Spd since mine is actually +Spd/-Res. Compared to my Cherche who cost me a 5* Camilla for the Brave Axe+ or my Raudhrraven+ Sanaki who cost me 22K feathers to promote fodder Henry to 5*, it's definitely way cheaper.

And sure you can go right ahead.

[Ryu Yuki]

4 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

@Ryu Yuki Yeah, I figured as much. That is very good to know, props on finding something that A!Tiki can beat Y!Tiki at! I feel my status as dragon master slipping... Do you have any objections if I submit that build to the FE Heroes wiki?

Sure, go ahead. I mostly learnt through personal experience that a merged Julia can and will survive a TA3 GTB/Qr Young Tiki. In any case, while TA3 + GTB Adult Tiki isn't necessarily the best build against other colors, she fulfills the green-killing role excellently and it's the one build she straight up does better than her younger counterpart. Plus a team is composed of 4 different units, and it can be better to give everyone their own specialized role instead of trying to make them good all-around. So I do sincerely believe this build works great for her, on the basis that Young Tiki can perform almost all other builds better.

 Also we can both be dragon masters. I'm pretty proud of my fondness for dragons, and am extremely invested in them. I run nothing less than 3 dragons in every GHB and Arena battle, even if it's not the best idea with my lineup of heroes. I even single-mindedly gave every single feather I had to Nowi since the beginning of the game, and finally managed to 40+10 her because I ignored everyone else and never did a single promotion except Anna/Sharena to 4*. So yeah, we can be dragon master buddies!

I'm totally the superior dragon master though. My obsession with them beats all. Except when it comes to Ice Dragon and Ninian.