Lord's Love Interests

[bethany81707]

Not going to do a formal poll this time, but I will provide a list of pre-existing ones for reference.

The established love interest is something that fell on a gentle decline as Fire Emblem moved forward. In the Classic era, it was locked. In the Veteran era, it was somewhat implied, but not so much that you could A Support someone else. In the Modern era, where S-Supporting the right unit is a game mechanic, it's basically done away with. However, despite this, I want to take a look into how love interests have worked in Fire Emblem so I could have a play with it myself.

What are your feelings about what makes a good love interest? Do you think any of the ones provided have met that? What would you change if you were to make your own?

Spoiler

*Caeda (Marth)

*Alm/Celica

*Deirdre (Sigurd)

*Nanna (Leif)

*Lilina (Roy)

*Ninian (Eliwood)

*Hector/Lyn

*Tana (Ephraim)

*Elincia (Ike)

*Soren (Ike)

*Sothe (Micaiah)

*Sumia (Chrom)

Not listed: Seliph, Eirika, Robin, Corrin. Possibly Lucina.

 

[maybe]

i think you could probably add lana for seliph

[Magical Glace]

So long as they aren't like Sothe, I'm happy.

Please let me ship Micaiah with Pelleas or Edward or SOMETHING, game.  Just not the guy who she refers to as being like her little brother >~>

Though Dierdre and Sigurd's romance feels way too fast to me, so that one is something I wish was better handled.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Generally I don't love romances in video games, are they ever done right?

4 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

*Soren (Ike)

*Sigh* We have no idea if Soren is truly gay or not. Devoted to Ike, yes. But gay, that is a mystery. Crying into the arms of your first savior is not inherently gay. The best we have to go on, and it isn't much, is him mimicking Aimee and calling Ike "Ikey-poo" as joke at the end of a base conversation in PoR C23. Ike for his part displays no strong interest in Soren, and Ike is almost never bursting with emotion to begin with.

The ElinciaxIke thing is wholly international, it isn't found in Japan apparently. But, I guess we can count it because it exists somewhere at least. It's nothing special, nor bad.

HectorxLyn might be the best of the rest I know of. NinianxEliwood is restrained by Nin holding back on her big secret for so long.

Sothe and Miccy come off more as siblings to start than lovers, and their background is more parent and child. That it evolves into marriage is no surprise to the player, but nonetheless it seems slightly incestuous in a nonliteral way.

SumiaxChrom is boring. Sully I think I preferred, or Maribelle even. F!Robin was atrocious. Olivia is literally rushed.

[bethany81707]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

*Sigh* We have no idea if Soren is truly gay or not. Devoted to Ike, yes. But gay, that is a mystery. Crying into the arms of your first savior is not inherently gay. The best we have to go on, and it isn't much, is him mimicking Aimee and calling Ike "Ikey-poo" as joke at the end of a base conversation in PoR C23. Ike for his part displays no strong interest in Soren, and Ike is almost never bursting with emotion to begin with.

The ElinciaxIke thing is wholly international, it isn't found in Japan apparently. But, I guess we can count it because it exists somewhere at least. It's nothing special, nor bad.

Might as well address this now...

Elincia has the ending cutscene with plenty of shipping-like body language. Soren has a 'Support' that requires both games and a lot of effort to produce. Neither is particularly great evidence, but I meant both as Elincia is FE9 Ike's love interest while Soren is FE10's. 'Asexual' is also another interpretation (that I'm a fan of, too), but Elincia and Soren have discussion potential in this topic.

Seth probably does, too, but... it's a little harder for me to tell there. Lines are blurred. Let's just say that it's not going to be a blurry case for Riley/Sammy.

[Thane]

Credible romance is hard to write and it all boils down to making the relationship between the two feel dynamic and genuine. I feel like a love interest should mainly be written for the lords if they're their own characters and their relationship adds something to the plot. So long as you avoid writing another Sothe who is more like Micaiah's guard dog than an actual partner, it's an improvement though.

[Enaluxeme]

Make me redo the list for you, since some of these are in an incredibly gray area:

Spoiler

Marth x Sheeda - Absolutely canon

Alm x Celica - Absolutely canon

Sigurd x Deirdre - Absolutely canon

Celice x Rana - Most likely

Leif x Nanna - Absolutely canon

Roy x Lilina - Most likely

Eliwood x Ninian - Most likely

Hector - I have no idea whatsoever

Lyn x Rath - Most likely

Eirika - I have no idea whatsoever

Ephraim - I have no idea whatsoever

Ike - I have no idea whatsoever

Micaiah x Sothe - Most likely

Chrom x Sumia - Most likely

Lucina - I have no idea whatsoever

Corrin - I have no idea whatsoever

 

[Titamon]

Lyn/Rath

Hector/Florina

Eirika/Seth

 

[Tuvy]

54 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Generally I don't love romances in video games, are they ever done right?

*Sigh* We have no idea if Soren is truly gay or not. Devoted to Ike, yes. But gay, that is a mystery. Crying into the arms of your first savior is not inherently gay. The best we have to go on, and it isn't much, is him mimicking Aimee and calling Ike "Ikey-poo" as joke at the end of a base conversation in PoR C23. Ike for his part displays no strong interest in Soren, and Ike is almost never bursting with emotion to begin with.

The ElinciaxIke thing is wholly international, it isn't found in Japan apparently. But, I guess we can count it because it exists somewhere at least. It's nothing special, nor bad.

HectorxLyn might be the best of the rest I know of. NinianxEliwood is restrained by Nin holding back on her big secret for so long.

Sothe and Miccy come off more as siblings to start than lovers, and their background is more parent and child. That it evolves into marriage is no surprise to the player, but nonetheless it seems slightly incestuous in a nonliteral way.

SumiaxChrom is boring. Sully I think I preferred, or Maribelle even. F!Robin was atrocious. Olivia is literally rushed.

all of this

Sully X Chrom makes SO MUCH SENSE!!!

[saisymbolic]

4 minutes ago, Titamon said:

Lyn/Rath

Hector/Florina

Eirika/Seth

To be honest, I thought I was the only one who liked those pairings.

[shadowofchaos]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

HectorxLyn might be the best of the rest I know of. NinianxEliwood is restrained by Nin holding back on her big secret for so long.

While it is other media, the Elibe light novels are official merch.

And their setup is:

Eliwood x Ninian

Hector x Florina

Lyn x Rath

Edited May 1, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Armagon]

Here's my list

Spoiler

Marth x Caeda

Alm x Celica

Sigurd x Dierdre

Seliph x Lana

Leif x Nanna

Roy x Lilina

Eliwood x Ninian

Hector x Florina (fite me)

Rath x Lyn

Seth x Erikia

Ephraim x Tana

Ike x unnamed girl. How else do you explain Priam?

Sothe x Micaiah

Chrom x Olivia

Robin x Lucina 

M!Corrin x Azura.

I've got nothing for F!Corrin.

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Armagon

[Anacybele]

While I'm a heavy Ike x Elincia shipper, even I have to admit that it is a bit iffy in RD at least because Elincia gets an ending with freaking Geoffrey and none with Ike. :( I mean, Geoffrey is somewhat understandable, as there isn't any other guy I'd give an ending to Elincia with either. But I still do think that due to the close friendship they developed in PoR and kinda sorta kept in the Japanese version of RD (localized version cut some interesting text, god damn it). it would've been perfectly reasonable for her and Ike to have at least gotten a platonic one.

Soren is entirely up to the fans' imagination though, because while he and Ike are good friends, there hasn't really been anything between them that hinted more towards romance. Not even the hug scene, because plenty of guys who are friends in real life give each other hugs (emotional ones too). Hell, I plan to write such a scene someday and it'll be just as emotional as the Ike/Soren one, if not MORE. But if Ike/Soren fans want to see it as a possible foundation for romance, well, that's what they're gonna do. Can't stop them and I respect their opinion.

However, I still always was disappointed that after all the Ike x Elincia implications the localization added in PoR, IS didn't roll with the pairing in RD. It not only made their relationship look kind of confusing in the west, but also somewhat inconsistent. They act like they don't know each other too well in some scenes, but then when you check out some of Elincia's death quotes...she still very much cares for Ike and sounds like she may even be in love with him ("my noble Ike... All your plans..." Ike is "yours," eh, Elincia? :3 And that's on top of her asking Ike, not Geoffrey, to take care of Crimea if she is lost in the Valtome chapter where she disarms herself).

The last scene of part 2 may be an implication that Elincia could love Ike too. It's pretty loose though, so I'd take it with a grain of salt. Remember how Ike asks if she'd like to contract his mercenaries to finish things up? Elincia says no and would rather have Geoffrey and the knights do it even though it could stain their reputation. Basically, she's saying she'd rather stain Geoffrey's rep than Ike's! Hmm... Interesting, there, Elincia.

But as I said, this is kind of loose and inconsistent evidence and not anything real concrete, so it could be interpreted in a number of ways. It could make for interesting interpretations though, and of course I've taken some liberties with that. :P

41 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

While it is other media, the Elibe light novels are official merch.

And their setup is:

Eliwood x Ninian

Hector x Florina

Lyn x Rath

While this is true, I still feel it is inconsistent with the game material. Eliwood x NInian is the most implied for Eliwood, but Lyn is more implied for Hector than any other pairing for the two and I considered this such before I became a fan of it. I also have bias against Hector x Florina though, because imo, the support is just dumb (it's basically just Florina trying to say sorry. Just...what? There's no love there, just a scared girl and a confused guy) But this is just my opinion.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Anacybele

[Armagon]

Regarding Hector x Florina, it is worth noting that Hector is Florina's only male Support, which is hilarious imo.

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Regarding Hector x Florina, it is worth noting that Hector is Florina's only male Support, which is hilarious imo.

It's reasonable though, because she's afraid of men. But I do think it would've been fine for her to have a support with Kent. He's polite and gentleman-like, the perfect kind of guy for Florina to reasonably grow comfortable with. It doesn't matter what's in the game though, I always shipped these two. xP

EDIT: Oh yeah, Aimee is a sort of love interest for Ike too since she's got a big crush on him. lol I don't think he'd ever get with her, but she still fits the category well enough to me. :P

Edited May 1, 2017 by Anacybele

[Thinks Their Own Way]

I prefer (from games I've played mostly):

Marth x Caeda (Default)

Alm x Celica (Default)

Eliwood x Ninian (Default)

Hector x Lyn (None of their other pairings excite me in the slightest and I like their dynamic)

Eirika x Lyon (I don't care if it can never happen)

Ephraim x Nobody (I like Tana but she comes off as annoying in their supports and I hate L'Arachel in general)

Micaiah x Sothe (Doesn't bother me in the slightest)

Chrom x Olivia (Being rushed is still significantly better than his other options)

F!Corrin x Xander (It's certainly interesting in a good way)

M!Corrin x Charlotte (I like their dynamic)

More often than not in this series, the canon pairings are ones that bore me personally; it comes off as the game telling me to like those pairing instead of giving me a reason to like them. The ones that excite me are the ones that have dynamics about them that elevate above the more traditional ones.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Now looking over Hector's options, I'll say Florina is the worst. Farina- I hoped there would be good chemistry, there sadly wasn't much. Serra on the other hand- Hector might not have an ending with her, but surprisingly the support is pretty nice at the end- Hector deserves to make Serra nobility (she wouldn't mind forsaking her vows for him; and it works for Lilina). I'm divided whether I prefer Lyn or Serra for Hector.

As for Lyn, Rath is kinda crappy due to his stoicism. Kent is generic. Wil is actually nice, if not in any way romantic. Hector is actually her second best man, Eliwood takes the cake for the best. 

Eliwood's best is totally Lyn, no two doubts about it. EliwoodxFiora is a bit too samey and dull in terms of the characters involved. Ninian in supports is the absolute worst, but has plot to put it over Fiora.

Eirika's best pick for me is Forde. Eirika acts fairly casually, a nice change of things. Seth the generic chivalric romance is second unfortunately. Saleh has world building, but I don't feel the romance is really there. Innes- I hoped, but nothing came of it.

Ephraim only has two choices, and both supports are equally good/bad, with Tana having a slight lead due to having a past with Ephraim.

[shadowofchaos]

I feel like people misinterpreted the OPs intention.

People are just posting their ships instead of saying "why is it akin to implied love interests" like Marth and Caeda that are locked in older games compared to them just saying "I don't like this pairing" or "it's not interesting".

[saisymbolic]

7 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

I feel like people misinterpreted the OPs intention.

People are just posting their ships instead of saying "why is it akin to implied love interests" like Marth and Caeda that are locked in older games compared to them just saying "I don't like this pairing" or "it's not interesting".

Oh. I totally misunderstood then. I really need to start reading the opening posts better.

Then, I would primarily agree with Thane's earlier post.

In my opinion, there are very few romantic relationships in games that I can say were done well - and FE is no exception. Though, I posted some of the couples I preferred, they were based mostly on what I thought looked "cute" rather than any true compatibility - which is not a good thing. The couples in the later FE games (as I can't comment on games pre-FE7) feel somewhat tacked on, making relationships feel very inauthentic because there is little buildup or establishment. And supports and an epilogue do little in changing that, in my opinion, as a three part conversation and a brief text during the credits is not nearly enough to truly get me attached to the two characters or them being together 4 evar.

Also, an element that I think should be taken into account when writing a couple is what each person can provide for the other - the relationship should change the characters in some manner, in my opinion, whether for better or for worse. I don't want to say a romance should solely be used as character development, but it should play a particular part in the characters' growth (or regression).

Now, if I were to make my own love interest in FE . . . I wouldn't change anything. However, it isn't because I don't find anything wrong with the way it is now (because I do). I would rather not personally change it because all romantic interactions I create tend to be full of angst and unrequited feelings. Unless people want read about angst and unrequited feelings?

also i can't be the only one who thinks ike and soren are asexual, right?

Edited May 2, 2017 by saisymbolic

[Titamon]

4 hours ago, saisymbolic said:

To be honest, I thought I was the only one who liked those pairings.

It makes more sense that way IMO.

Lyn leaving the Sacaen plains behind for a noblewoman's life in Lycia with Hector/Eliwood makes no since for her character. Besides she has way more in common with Rath than any other pairing

 

[Slumber]

4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

While this is true, I still feel it is inconsistent with the game material. Eliwood x NInian is the most implied for Eliwood, but Lyn is more implied for Hector than any other pairing for the two and I considered this such before I became a fan of it. I also have bias against Hector x Florina though, because imo, the support is just dumb (it's basically just Florina trying to say sorry. Just...what? There's no love there, just a scared girl and a confused guy) But this is just my opinion.

I'd argue Lyn and Rath is way more implied than Lyn and Hector.

A) It fits with Lyn's personality way more than Hector's ending. Lyn, the princess of Caelin who couldn't settle down for two seconds to bring stability to the place after everyone in power died is suddenly settling down to become a queen for the rest of her life? I doubt it. Rath's ending says that the two stay in the plains, the place Lyn is always going to anyway, and it's the only ending in the game that explains Sue. Lyn's a free spirit, which, seems to me, heavily implies that she'd prefer to live in the plains with the rest of the Sacaean nomads.

B) While I agree that Hector/Florina is off putting, am I the only one that remembers that Farina is another possibility for Hector? And of all of Hector's potential brides, she's the one who I think suits him the best. She's headstrong and independent like Lyn, but her free-spirit is molded by her need of money, rather than a "one-with-nature" atmosphere like Lyn. It seems much more likely that she'd take the opportunity to be a queen of one of the biggest countries in Elibe than Lyn. And most importantly, she's a Hector exclusive character. She only shows up if Hector is the leader of the army. She's innately exclusive to Hector from a narrative and gameplay perspective.

C) Lilina's magical prowess seems to indicate that her mother was somewhat in-tune with magic. And while Hector can't shack up with any mages, pegasus knights do have magical affinity and resistance to it. This seems to narrow it down to either Florina or Farina, and at that point it comes down to personal preference.

And(This one's just for fun and comparing it to how children work in other FE games) D) Lilina's slow as shit, can't hit anything, and has a sky-high attack. The only potential mother that her growths line-up with are Farina.

[Anacybele]

50 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I'd argue Lyn and Rath is way more implied than Lyn and Hector.

A) It fits with Lyn's personality way more than Hector's ending. Lyn, the princess of Caelin who couldn't settle down for two seconds to bring stability to the place after everyone in power died is suddenly settling down to become a queen for the rest of her life? I doubt it. Rath's ending says that the two stay in the plains, the place Lyn is always going to anyway, and it's the only ending in the game that explains Sue. Lyn's a free spirit, which, seems to me, heavily implies that she'd prefer to live in the plains with the rest of the Sacaean nomads.

B) While I agree that Hector/Florina is off putting, am I the only one that remembers that Farina is another possibility for Hector? And of all of Hector's potential brides, she's the one who I think suits him the best. She's headstrong and independent like Lyn, but her free-spirit is molded by her need of money, rather than a "one-with-nature" atmosphere like Lyn. It seems much more likely that she'd take the opportunity to be a queen of one of the biggest countries in Elibe than Lyn. And most importantly, she's a Hector exclusive character. She only shows up if Hector is the leader of the army. She's innately exclusive to Hector from a narrative and gameplay perspective.

C) Lilina's magical prowess seems to indicate that her mother was somewhat in-tune with magic. And while Hector can't shack up with any mages, pegasus knights do have magical affinity and resistance to it. This seems to narrow it down to either Florina or Farina, and at that point it comes down to personal preference.

And(This one's just for fun and comparing it to how children work in other FE games) D) Lilina's slow as shit, can't hit anything, and has a sky-high attack. The only potential mother that her growths line-up with are Farina.

1. Yet Lyn has more shippy scenes with Hector and even a special conversation that is only available if they A support. Hector also outright says IN a STORY convo that he's lost his heart to her. So no matter what the player does, he falls in love with Lyn. Lyn never became a queen either, what are you talking about? Ostia has a marquess, not a king or queen.

2. Farina is only available in Hector mode though. We can't pair her with him in Eliwood's story, so I would definitely argue that she is the least canon-ish option.

3. You do know that Cecilia, who is a mage, taught Lilina, right? Roy also learned from her, but it was found that he was just not magically inclined, and he could've also had a Peg knight for his mom (Fiora).

All Lyn and Rath have is their support and one scene in Lyn mode where Rath saves her. Hector is far more implied as the "canon" option.

So yeah, I feel your argument here is rather weak. But your views are yours and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

2 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

I feel like people misinterpreted the OPs intention.

People are just posting their ships instead of saying "why is it akin to implied love interests" like Marth and Caeda that are locked in older games compared to them just saying "I don't like this pairing" or "it's not interesting".

And yeah, this post.

[Iris]

@Slumber@Anacybele

The thing about Elibe is that you can easily get a good idea of what the "implied" pairings are supposed to be by looking at the support growth rates. Note that the highest support growth rate is Eliwood x Ninian at +5 per turn; the higher the number, the higher the compatibility (platonically or romantically). This checks out, seeing that Isadora x Harken is +4, Bartre x Karla is +4, and so on; friendships or family relations are also +4. Farina is a pitiful +1, and considering her late join time, it's unlikely to build the A Support with Farina especially if you're going for a ranked run. Farina has the same base starting rate with Dart, but the support increases at +2, so I would argue it's more likely she's supposed to support him (Kent is also +1). This also checks out in the Sacred Stones as well with regards to what pairings most people consider canon.

Hector is interesting because his highest female support growth rate is Lyn at +3, but Lyn's is +4 with Rath. Optimizing the pairings based on efficiency (and paired endings) would lead to Lyn/Rath and Hector/Florina, though. For what it's worth, in Florina's join chapter in Hector Mode, she gets an additional "Talk" conversation with Hector (not present in Eliwood mode). I think it's perfectly understandable that the Lyn/Hector support builds faster than the Florina/Hector (she's having a very difficulty time to talk to him . . .), but Lyn is far more compatible with Rath than Hector (as can be seen in their supports---there's a huge respect and understanding between Lyn and Rath unlike Lyn and Hector who have a more slap-slap-kiss dynamic).

I'm not here to debate which Elibe pairings are more canon, though, and I personally don't care too much about canon because I ship a lot of pairings that are most definitely not canon.

-

@phineas81707

With regard to the OP's intentions about thinking more critically about Lord pairings, I suggest you to read amellion's post (warning, long) about the Ike factor. An interesting point she somewhat refers to is how Elincia serves the role of Nyna/Guinevere, as a woman who's very involved in the respective Lord's game, but not quite a love interest.

I'm not a huge fan of the love interest patterns that IS sets up for us. We have the Lord and his childhood friend (Caeda, Celica, Rana, Lilina, Nanna, to an extent, Tana -- will address further), or the Lord and a mysterious waif (Deirdre, Ninian) . . . I far prefer the former to the latter (because the latter tends to feel like the plot strangled itself to get there) but the former I'm not the hugest fan of when IS repeats that dynamic over and over. FE6 is literally a rehash of FE1. 

Also I have a lot of issues with your list but Enaluxeme fixes it nicely. The thing about Ephraim and Tana is that while I think it's the most implied pairing for Ephraim in a romantic sense (if you disregard Myrrh), I think it's far more likely the creators intended to push a Myrrh and Ephraim support (not if on Ephraim route), since Myrrh fits into the narrative more than Tana does (who is largely irrelevant in comparison). 

[The Malign Knight]

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Generally I don't love romances in video games, are they ever done right?

SumiaxChrom is boring. Sully I think I preferred, or Maribelle even. F!Robin was atrocious. Olivia is literally rushed.

Tbh, I felt that FFX and FFIX did romances pretty well.

I actually like Sumia x Chrom: there are much better pairings, but I find It to be really cute. 

8 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

So long as they aren't like Sothe, I'm happy.

Please let me ship Micaiah with Pelleas or Edward or SOMETHING, game.  Just not the guy who she refers to as being like her little brother >~>

Though Dierdre and Sigurd's romance feels way too fast to me, so that one is something I wish was better handled.

I feel thar Deirdre x Sigurd was done pretty well: yes, they get in love too fast, but that's also the point: It's a love born from youth and ingenuity and It also shows how much naive Sigurd is, since he never really considers the risks that such a love would bring.

[Interdimensional Observer]

21 minutes ago, Iris said:

The thing about Ephraim and Tana is that while I think it's the most implied pairing for Ephraim in a romantic sense (if you disregard Myrrh), I think it's far more likely the creators intended to push a Myrrh and Ephraim support (not if on Ephraim route), since Myrrh fits into the narrative more than Tana does (who is largely irrelevant in comparison). 

Myrrh and Ephraim are more big brother-little sister, that trope Japan loves and employed with Tiki and Marth, than romantic. 

Tana is there for the one scene in Ephraim's version of C19, but beyond that isn't really present at all. Love was sidelined for Ephraim's story. Eirika's gets that though with Lyon.