Canonicity

[Kil0]

Should heroes be put in the timeline at all? Should it be considered a "canon" game that is coexisting in the same way as every other game in the series?

[maybe]

there is no "timeline" for these games

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

There's a very rough timeline, with Awakening being the absolute last thing to happen at the moment, and Fates no doubt being the first (see Anna My Room quotes). Elibe, Tellius and Magvel are mysteries in where they fit in, though.

That being said, no. This game literally exists nowhere in time, since it randomly pulls people out of certain points of their games.

[Shogus00]

13 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

There's a very rough timeline, with Awakening being the absolute last thing to happen at the moment, and Fates no doubt being the first (see Anna My Room quotes). Elibe, Tellius and Magvel are mysteries in where they fit in, though.

That being said, no. This game literally exists nowhere in time, since it randomly pulls people out of certain points of their games.

Forgive my stupidity but what quotes imply this? I looked at all of them and none of them really jump out to me. 

[Arthur97]

2 minutes ago, Shogus00 said:

Forgive my stupidity but what quotes imply this? I looked at all of them and none of them really jump out to me. 

I couldn't find it either.

[Shogus00]

2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I couldn't find it either.

Maybe this one ???“All of our legends so far are about dragon gods. I wonder if all of humanity's big adventures are still waiting for us...” 

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, Shogus00 said:

Maybe this one ???“All of our legends so far are about dragon gods. I wonder if all of humanity's big adventures are still waiting for us...” 

Maybe, but that's still pretty shaky ground to base it all on one line. 

[Slumber]

4 minutes ago, Shogus00 said:

Maybe this one ???“All of our legends so far are about dragon gods. I wonder if all of humanity's big adventures are still waiting for us...” 

I mean, that could still place it after FE1-5 and Awakening, so yeah.

Not sure how it's supposed to imply that Fates is the first game.

I'm pretty sure FE1-5+Awakening are their own world, and everything else is disconnected from that.

[Shogus00]

2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Maybe, but that's still pretty shaky ground to base it all on one line. 

Oh absolutely, but it's all I could find. And Chrom also implies that they have legends about Fates world in Ylisse but who knows how canon Before Awakening was. They didn't really do any world building in Fates(the world doesn't even have a name ) so I prefer not to think about it

[Shogus00]

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I mean, that could still place it after FE1-5 and Awakening, so yeah.

Not sure how it's supposed to imply that Fates is the first game.

I'm pretty sure FE1-5+Awakening are their own world, and everything else is disconnected from that.

I agree, to me Fates takes place in a whole different universe. 

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, Shogus00 said:

Oh absolutely, but it's all I could find. And Chrom also implies that they have legends about Fates world in Ylisse but who knows how canon Before Awakening was. They didn't really do any world building in Fates(the world doesn't even have a name ) so I prefer not to think about it

They probably just threw that in there to ride off of Awakening a little more.

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

I mean, that could still place it after FE1-5 and Awakening, so yeah.

Not sure how it's supposed to imply that Fates is the first game.

I'm pretty sure FE1-5+Awakening are their own world, and everything else is disconnected from that.

That works for me. Though I kind of want a game that tells what happened with the first exalt. They could use that to cover some plot holes too.

[TheNiddo]

Awakening to me is kinda like Turn A Gundam.

Basically in Gundam: all Gundam timelines end in Turn A, even though there are.... 4, 5, 6 different Gundam timelines? They all end up at Turn A, and there is only one Turn A. In the show even they mainly show UC timeline stuff but you get quick glances of Wings and G Gundam timeline stuff. Awakening could very well be like that because of the Outerrealm Gate: every FE world eventually makes a similar gate and ends up connecting themselves to Awakening.

There is also the "two FE worlds" theory which uses the Dragon Gate from FE7 as its anchor. Basically in one time line you have FE4 -> FE1/2/3 -> Awakening for sure, another timeline you have FE7 -> FE6 for sure. Assuming that the dragons on the otherside of the gate are actually from FE1's world, it connects the two worlds. From there you can probably put FE8/9/10 in FE7's fairly easily. Fates would probably be in the first world, so Fates > FE4 > FE1/2/3 > Awakening.

If you wanted just plain old timeline without care for which world events happened in, prooooobably something roughly like this:

Fates -> FE4/FE9's ancient past -> FE7/6 -> FE1/2/3 -> Awakening

FE9/10 and FE8 have nothing to anchor them at all timeline wise, other than FE9's backstory happening an extremely long time ago and having to be the first event in their world. I'd probably shove FE9/10 around the same time as FE1/2/3, and then FE8 is an absolute question mark. FE7 has to be before FE1 because there are a lot of dragons up and about in the other world, while in FE1 they're dying out. Don't think the time gap is super huge there though, possibly just one or two generations of dragons worth.

[r_n]

Hereos' whole "we go into other worlds and steal/use their heroes all the time" thing can probably be handwaved away and just be noncanon, but heroes itself is probably as valid a universe as anything else. I wouldn't be surprsied if we eventually see the askr trio and veronica/masked man show up in future dlcs down the line.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

2 hours ago, Shogus00 said:

Forgive my stupidity but what quotes imply this? I looked at all of them and none of them really jump out to me. 

@Arthur97

Oh, they might have changed them in the localization.

"There might be someone else in this world who's just like you. Perhaps they would be born later." (Robin)

*Secret Shop: implied that this Anna came up with the name*

And the most obvious one: "There are no sagas of heroes in this world; only legends of the dragon gods that created this world. Everything written in the stories are to happen in the future. Do you understand what that means?"

Add in not!Cordelia, not!Tharja and Kanna, who all reference being reincarnated and meeting you again (I forgot if Gurei actually has a line, but the other three definitely do).

Also @Slumber since Priam exists, Tellius has to take place in at least the same universe somehow, even if it's an "Outrealm" or something.

Edited May 1, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Shogus00]

6 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Oh, they might have changed them in the localization.

"There might be someone else in this world who's just like you. Perhaps they would be born later." (Robin)

*Secret Shop: implied that this Anna came up with the name*

And the most obvious one: "There are no sagas of heroes in this world; only legends of the dragon gods that created this world. Everything written in the stories are to happen in the future. Do you understand what that means?"

Add in not!Cordelia, not!Tharja and Kanna, who all reference being reincarnated and meeting you again (I forgot if Gurei actually has a line, but the other three definitely do).

Okay yeah so the line in english is "All of our legends so far are about dragon gods. I wonder if all of humanity's big adventures are still waiting", obviously different, and most of her other dialog is changed to not imply these things either. Localization screws up once again. Another thing I thought of is the fact that the Fates characters were reincarnated from awakening ones, not the other way around but who knows. 

1 hour ago, TheNiddo said:

Awakening to me is kinda like Turn A Gundam.

Basically in Gundam: all Gundam timelines end in Turn A, even though there are.... 4, 5, 6 different Gundam timelines? They all end up at Turn A, and there is only one Turn A. In the show even they mainly show UC timeline stuff but you get quick glances of Wings and G Gundam timeline stuff. Awakening could very well be like that because of the Outerrealm Gate: every FE world eventually makes a similar gate and ends up connecting themselves to Awakening.

There is also the "two FE worlds" theory which uses the Dragon Gate from FE7 as its anchor. Basically in one time line you have FE4 -> FE1/2/3 -> Awakening for sure, another timeline you have FE7 -> FE6 for sure. Assuming that the dragons on the otherside of the gate are actually from FE1's world, it connects the two worlds. From there you can probably put FE8/9/10 in FE7's fairly easily. Fates would probably be in the first world, so Fates > FE4 > FE1/2/3 > Awakening.

If you wanted just plain old timeline without care for which world events happened in, prooooobably something roughly like this:

Fates -> FE4/FE9's ancient past -> FE7/6 -> FE1/2/3 -> Awakening

FE9/10 and FE8 have nothing to anchor them at all timeline wise, other than FE9's backstory happening an extremely long time ago and having to be the first event in their world. I'd probably shove FE9/10 around the same time as FE1/2/3, and then FE8 is an absolute question mark. FE7 has to be before FE1 because there are a lot of dragons up and about in the other world, while in FE1 they're dying out. Don't think the time gap is super huge there though, possibly just one or two generations of dragons worth.

I always assumed FE 9 and 10 came before all the rest due to the creation talk and such. Kinda like a distant past Skyward Sword. But with this new timeline thing we can roughly connect the games like a weird Zelda timeline. But anyway that provides a lot of info into how the timeline might work. But I may be completely wrong here. 

 

Anyway finally posting about the topic at hand, No I don't think heroes is canon. The story is fun and enjoyable but I think it largely remains just a fun mobile game. Somethings shouldn't be looked to deep into because sometimes the writers didn't think much about it either. 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

5 minutes ago, Shogus00 said:

Okay yeah so the line in english is "All of our legends so far are about dragon gods. I wonder if all of humanity's big adventures are still waiting", obviously different, and most of her other dialog is changed to not imply these things either. Localization screws up once again. Another thing I thought of is the fact that the Fates characters were reincarnated from awakening ones, not the other way around but who knows. 

Lol, thanks Treehouse.

But yeah, at least in Japanese, the Awakening expies and Kanna all specifically mention being reincarnated in the future (Caledori asking you to save her again from lost love, Kanna wanting to be your child again etc.).

[Interdimensional Observer]

Timeline schimeline. Who needs one to connect all the games? Let us appreciate each game on its own terms.

I understand if you find it has some meaning like in Zelda or something, and I don't mind if you derive some appreciation from that. But personally, I say lets not worry over such things and avoid the problem of forcing everything to fit together.

Oh Lavos! Where are you dearie? I've found some delicious timespace for you to snack on!

[Arthur97]

 

1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Lol, thanks Treehouse.

But yeah, at least in Japanese, the Awakening expies and Kanna all specifically mention being reincarnated in the future (Caledori asking you to save her again from lost love, Kanna wanting to be your child again etc.).

I've honestly never cared for the reincarnation theory. Too little evidence beyond a few S support (the least reliable of supports) lines. There really isn't anything in the main game to support it.

[Slumber]

1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Also @Slumber since Priam exists, Tellius has to take place in at least the same universe somehow, even if it's an "Outrealm" or something.

Except Ike implicitly came through a Dragon's/Outrealm Gate. You can't just handwave that bit of information, when it's the canon way these completely separate worlds interact with each other.

Yeah, it's the same universe, but these are worlds that are magically separated from each other. It's not like going from Elibe to Tellius is as simple as walking down the street, or even sailing across the world. These are separate worlds that operate by completely different rules.

Tellius has Gods that can end all human life in an instant, Elibe has nothing(They had dragons, but guess what? They're behind a Dragon's Gate, and explicitly referred to as separate worlds in the game).

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

14 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

 

I've honestly never cared for the reincarnation theory. Too little evidence beyond a few S support (the least reliable of supports) lines. There really isn't anything in the main game to support it.

At least to me, it's not really a theory when they outright say it.

@Slumber I know Ike came through some kind of portal, but I'm just saying two things: 1) Tellius has to come before the events of Awakening, and 2) the Tellius realm has to at least be in the same universe as Archanea. I never said they were all part of the same realm but in different times.

Edited May 2, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Arthur97]

14 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

At least to me, it's not really a theory when they outright say it.

But tis the nature of S-supports. They can't all be true, therefore none of them are true. Besides, I have a hard time reconciling Corrin's utter incompetence to Robin's competence. I really think it weakens those characters too if they are not really acting of their own accord, but rather some predetermined pattern that they are locked into to.

Edit: Plus, if they are reincarnations, then Severa can be her own mother's mother and that just leads to problems.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Arthur97

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 hour ago, Arthur97 said:

But tis the nature of S-supports. They can't all be true, therefore none of them are true. Besides, I have a hard time reconciling Corrin's utter incompetence to Robin's competence. I really think it weakens those characters too if they are not really acting of their own accord, but rather some predetermined pattern that they are locked into to.

Edit: Plus, if they are reincarnations, then Severa can be her own mother's mother and that just leads to problems.

The way I see it, if it's in the game it should be considered.

I think Robin and Corrin are both supposed to represent you the player in IS' mind, so that's why they decided to put all these easter eggs in. Of course, no one likes being an incompetent protag, but hey....

Awakening itself was a time paradox, so if we call it out two games crumble at once lol.

[Arthur97]

2 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

The way I see it, if it's in the game it should be considered.

I think Robin and Corrin are both supposed to represent you the player in IS' mind, so that's why they decided to put all these easter eggs in. Of course, no one likes being an incompetent protag, but hey....

Awakening itself was a time paradox, so if we call it out two games crumble at once lol.

I think at most the reincarnation is left to head cannon. If you choose to go that route, then, fine, that's how it is. Besides, I prefer to think as Robin and Corrin as their own characters rather than Avatars (plus I ship M!Robin and Lucina so it hurts that ship...maybe, I could be overthinking it as I am prone to do). Though, a lot in Fire Emblem can really be decided by player choice making the "cannon" route only the most basic. Besides, just because they want to be reincarnated doesn't mean they will. I can't think of any other cases of reincarnation in the series. Zelda it is not.

[Faye]

Wow, I alone answered "yes" so far... I like to think this game as canon because I like Alphonse, he's absolutely darling and I'd love to have Support convos with him. :V Plus all these FE characters gathering together is just cool, and they can learn legends from other worlds and stuff.

[Hero of the Fire Emblems]

Is Ike explicitly coming out of a portal something someone pulled from their ass here or is there a specific quote you can hand me from Awakening?