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Why is the DLC getting so much hate?


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I recently watched the DLC trailer on the NoA website, and everything seemed to be as expected. Bonus campaign maps, money-grind and EXP-grind maps, and DLC class maps alongside free gear. Nothing seemed to be much different from what Awakening and Fates had. But when I checked the Like-Dislike bar, people seemed to be pretty upset, and I don't understand why. Could someone please explain? Thank you.

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I think it is because it is just a lazy cash grab, especially since they are doing 2 versions of the Gold, Items and Experience DLCs, I thought the Gold, Items and Experience DLCs in fine in Awakening as I thought of it as IC experimenting DLC, so I personally let them get away with it. I don't think people like Idea of the Super Promotes are all separate DLCs and probably don't add much to the game unlike the ballistician from fates which played very different any other classes . I like the Idea of the Rise of the Deliverance DLC pack as that adds more lore, and would like to know how the maps are executed. 

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Here's something I wrote earlier.

Quote

While some people complain about DLC in general, the fact remains that as of now, a lot of the Shadows of Valentia DLC is strikingly superfluous. The four tier classes are not needed for anything since you can beat chapter 6 without them, and there are no challenge maps to use them or the grinding maps for. The Deliverance DLC seems to reuse maps which, while in line with the story, is not exactly fertile soil for riveting gameplay. Not only that, but they only offer expanded backstory and dialogue of a select few characters.

It feels like we get less bang for our buck when compared especially to Awakening. Not only that, but much more of this DLC is available much earlier than Awakening and Fates' DLC was, something that makes me wonder if they've actually cut development time to work on it.

It's just expensive and as it stands right now not very useful for anything. 

This does not mean people loved all the DLC in earlier titles by any means; some folks just straight up dislike any form of DLC. However, this is a particularly bad deal for consumers, and I hope people here will know better than to give Intelligent Systems their money and encourage them to continue this trend.

Edit: Oh, and I should point out that I don't want the DLC classes to be needed for the main story. It's just that you need to be third tier (and level 20, right?) in order to get promoted. This happens very late and would require an amount of grinding that would break the game anyway. Since there are no DLC challenge maps, these classes strike me more as cosmetic than anything.

Edited by Thane
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Because:

1. Its expensive for a remake game especially if you want the "cheaper" season pass.

2. Before someone says "buy it separately with what you want" people will want it all eventually you'll pay 30% more than together.

3. Ultimate classes are a pointless addition when there's no Apotheosis maps or any other challenge map after chapter 6.

4. The 2 grinding sets were redundant and could've scale with progression.

5. The announcement was waaaaaay too early when the game isn't even out overseas.

Its very understandable why people are upset.

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn
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The hate understandably comes from the $45 price tag on the Season Pass. That being said, i do think it's being blown out of proportion, just a bit. I mean, at the end of the day, it's still extra content. IS didn't purposely remove things from the game and lock them behind a paywall, something that certain companies like to do *looks at EA*.

26 minutes ago, Blade Lord Lyn said:

5. The announcement was waaaaaay too early when the game isn't even out overseas.

This is another factor, arguably about as big as the price tag. When Breath of the Wild's DLC was announced a month before the game's launch, even though it's Season Pass was only $20, it still got people upset. People were going around claiming that "BotW was in development for years and it's still incomplete".

Basically, lesson of the day, never announce DLC before a game releases.

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I thin the thing who bother them the most is the new classes are useless, and besides there is no map with them.

In Awakening and Fates you had with your new class, for the same price.

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I do think it's in part due to the content of the DLC.  Awakening in particular did wave DLC about as excellently as it could be done, I feel.  And I think that the DLC of Fates is fine, as well.  By comparison, Echoes' DLC feels a little void.  Yeah, it has all the "packs" you might expect, but if you look closely, you'll see that none of the really matter as much except the story DLC and maybe the Cipher DLC.  You also aren't given any sort of challenge for getting the extra classes, at least as far as it looks; you just have to get the characters to their proper levels, I guess.

I also think it's partly because no FE has had a season pass before, nor has all the DLC been laid bare around the time it's being released, especially not in NoA when it hasn't even been released overseas.  FE Fates and Awakening didn't have these freak outs about the DLC partially because they more came in waves, so it didn't feel like you were dumping 40 bucks on some DLC (if you hear "$40 for some DLC" and think that's negligible, you're probably better off financially than most).  And they weren't talking about the DLC before the game is even out.  That being said, there were some mishaps with Fates DLCs (mainly the whole "not releasing the last wave in the west" deal), but nothing quite like this.

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

The hate understandably comes from the $45 price tag on the Season Pass. That being said, i do think it's being blown out of proportion, just a bit. I mean, at the end of the day, it's still extra content. IS didn't purposely remove things from the game and lock them behind a paywall, something that certain companies like to do *looks at EA*.

This is another factor, arguably about as big as the price tag. When Breath of the Wild's DLC was announced a month before the game's launch, even though it's Season Pass was only $20, it still got people upset. People were going around claiming that "BotW was in development for years and it's still incomplete".

Basically, lesson of the day, never announce DLC before a game releases.

This is all true as well.  At the end of the day, the DLC itself isn't all that terrible, but the marketing behind it is awful.  I can't for the life of me figure out why companies still insist on announcing DLC before they even ship the freakin' game out (aside from EA and a select few other companies, though that's a whole other level of sin than we're talking).  They oughta at least pretend they weren't working on other stuff for the game before they release it.  I know they give the DLC announcement some lead time so that they can hopefully build some hype for it, but there's gotta be a line they can't cross.

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10 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I mean, at the end of the day, it's still extra content. IS didn't purposely remove things from the game and lock them behind a paywall, something that certain companies like to do *looks at EA*.

You sure about that? Some of it is pretty simple and is being released really quickly. I know not all day-one DLC is "cut from the game" necessarily, but this looks really sketchy.

For an even lower price, Fates offered two more full campaigns. I got all the DLC for Awakening and Fates, but I'll probably skip this time. I feel like they're pushing too far this time and I don't want to tell them that this is okay.

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Basically buying all the classes amounts to a much more expensive version of Limit Breaker, sans a battle to win it from (which is nice and bad at the same time). And again, there is no Apotheosis in sight to use it in. Though Limit Breaker itself was a bad idea and Apo would hardly be different if everything in it lost 10 non-HP stat points.

Fates had incomplete DLC since it never got any challenge maps. Awakening should have sweetened Series 1 a little bit more by including bonus goodies in the first battles of each set and bonus goodies for Heroes of Yore and Rogues and Redeemers 2.

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To sum it up, it's about the pricing, poor value, and content that doesn't look too interesting.

The DLC pass (the one that actually saves you money) costs MORE than the game itself, but offers substantially less content.

The DLC pass costs more than a new game would cost, but will have far less content than I expect from a new game. Simply put, it's poor value (value being defined as a ratio of content to price). For the price of the DLC, I could just buy an entirely new game, which I would probably get much more time played and enjoyment out of it.

Also, I posted this earlier:

Quote

First: I find it interesting that they are releasing it all so soon after launch, instead of spreading it out a bit like Awakening and Fates did. I wonder which strategy will be more successful in getting people to purchase DLC.

Second: Not much of the DLC actually looks interesting.

The story DLC, based on the topic it's about, doesn't seem to interesting to me.

An extra tier of classes seems cool... but sort of pointless. I like to make the game challenging for myself when I play it, so I won't use it during the main story as it will likely make the story easier. But it seems like there won't be much post-game outside the DLC... so it probably won't get much use.

And the rest appears to be mostly bonus item and experience DLC which I can't see I care for.

Doesn't look like anything neat like The Future Past or Heirs of Fate here - even the story DLC pack doesn't intrigue based on the story it explores.

Third: The DLC seems quite overpriced and appears to offer a very poor value (content to price ratio). The DLC pass costs more than a brand new game does but appears to offer substantially less content than I would expect of a brand new game.

 

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17 minutes ago, Florete said:

You sure about that? Some of it is pretty simple and is being released really quickly. I know not all day-one DLC is "cut from the game" necessarily, but this looks really sketchy.

Echoes itself was released rather quickly for an FE game. It actually makes sense why the DLC is coming out so quickly when you think about it.

But here, look at it this way.

  • Does the game actually require the grinding DLC?
  • Does the game actually require the Over-Classes?
  • Does the game actually require the Deliverance maps?
  • Does the game actually require the Cipher characters?

I'm pretty sure the anwser to all four of these is "no." In other words, it really is just extra content. But if you don't buy them, you're not missing out on much.

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1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Echoes itself was released rather quickly for an FE game. It actually makes sense why the DLC is coming out so quickly when you think about it.

But here, look at it this way.

  • Does the game actually require the grinding DLC?
  • Does the game actually require the Over-Classes?
  • Does the game actually require the Deliverance maps?
  • Does the game actually require the Cipher characters?

I'm pretty sure the anwser to all four of these is "no." In other words, it really is just extra content. But if you don't buy them, you're not missing out on much.

It being required or not has nothing to do with whether or not it was cut from the game and locked behind a paywall, though. Yeah, that would be much more scummy, but it still doesn't look good. Extra content doesn't have to come at a price.

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20 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Echoes itself was released rather quickly for an FE game. It actually makes sense why the DLC is coming out so quickly when you think about it.

But here, look at it this way.

  • Does the game actually require the grinding DLC?
  • Does the game actually require the Over-Classes?
  • Does the game actually require the Deliverance maps?
  • Does the game actually require the Cipher characters?

I'm pretty sure the anwser to all four of these is "no." In other words, it really is just extra content. But if you don't buy them, you're not missing out on much.

Sure, none of it is necessary to enjoy the game. All the more reason to skip it.

Only the Story DLC pack might be worthwhile, and even then I'm not too interested in the part of story that explores (it doesn't look like it will be as interesting as Heirs of Fate or The Future Past.

Especially since I like to play Fire Emblem games in a way that makes them challenging (no grinding, ironman, no stat boosters, etc.).

Still, if outside the story pack it's pretty much just bonus fluff, why does it need to cost more than the game itself costs?

I remember the days when expansion packs for PC games had as much story/campaign/mission content as the base game itself for less than the price of the original game...

Edited by Xaos Steel Wing
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14 minutes ago, Florete said:

Extra content doesn't have to come at a price.

I can agree with this. While extra content usually does come at a price, it doesn't have to be. I mean, Blaster Master Zero (great game btw), just updated to version 1.2, which added the very much needed Hard Mode as well as DLC characters, and said DLC characters are actually free for a 2-week period. After that, they'll cost $1.99 each.

1 minute ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

Still, if outside the story pack it's pretty much just bonus fluff, why does it need to cost more than the game itself costs?

That's more of just the Season Pass, really. The individual maps themselves don't cost nearly as much. Sure, total it all up, and it costs more than the game, but that was the case for Awakening and Fates too.

Not counting the pack discounts, Awakening's DLC totaled up to $65.

For Fates, assuming you don't have a Special Edition and you didn't get the DLC pack discounts, the DLC in that game totaled up to $75. Subtracting $40 (as that's the cost of the two paths you didn't get, that's $35, which is $5 less than the main game.

Now granted, Awakening did have the challenge packs, which, to this day, is the best DLC FE has done, but still, you can definitely see that FE DLC when totaled up is still pretty expensive, especially since most of it is bonus stuff.

Of course, just because Awakening and Fates did it doesn't mean Echoes gets a season pass, but i'm sure most of the people who did buy the DLC in the previous games got only the DLC they wanted, and at least, going by a poll that was done here, most people are doing just that with Echoes' DLC.

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Damn, do I really need to get the game, at very least, to understand what's the hate all about? I don't like buying/downloading for extra maps, challenges, & classes but I don't think it that bad.

Although I suppose if we compare it to Fates & Awakening it's something more I can understand.

Edited by Zangetsu
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8 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Damn, do I really need to get the game, at very least, to understand what's hate all about? I don't like buying/downloading for extra maps, challenges, & classes but I don't think it that bad.

Although I suppose if we compare it to Fates & Awakening it's something more I can understand.

As mentioned before, the hate for the DLC really is just the price tag on it. But at the end of the day, you don't actually need it to play Echoes and enjoy it at its fullest. The DLC is just extra content.

Edited by Armagon
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31 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I can agree with this. While extra content usually does come at a price, it doesn't have to be. I mean, Blaster Master Zero (great game btw), just updated to version 1.2, which added the very much needed Hard Mode as well as DLC characters, and said DLC characters are actually free for a 2-week period. After that, they'll cost $1.99 each.

That's more of just the Season Pass, really. The individual maps themselves don't cost nearly as much. Sure, total it all up, and it costs more than the game, but that was the case for Awakening and Fates too.

Not counting the pack discounts, Awakening's DLC totaled up to $65.

For Fates, assuming you don't have a Special Edition and you didn't get the DLC pack discounts, the DLC in that game totaled up to $75. Subtracting $40 (as that's the cost of the two paths you didn't get, that's $35, which is $5 less than the main game.

Now granted, Awakening did have the challenge packs, which, to this day, is the best DLC FE has done, but still, you can definitely see that FE DLC when totaled up is still pretty expensive, especially since most of it is bonus stuff.

Of course, just because Awakening and Fates did it doesn't mean Echoes gets a season pass, but i'm sure most of the people who did buy the DLC in the previous games got only the DLC they wanted, and at least, going by a poll that was done here, most people are doing just that with Echoes' DLC.

Just because it's been expensive (or even overpriced) in the past, doesn't mean it justifies it being expensive (or overpriced) now. Sure, the DLC was fairly expensive in the past (though I think it was alright for Fates), but it's only gotten worse - it's gotten pricier, yet the content itself looks far less appealing.

If the season pass was much cheaper I'd be inclined to get it, but for what it is, it's definitely not worth the price for me. As it is, I might get the Cipher characters and the story pack, if anything at all, but probably nothing beyond that.

In the end, it's Nintendo's choice: they are choosing to release it all soon after launch, and price it fairly expensively. Will it pay off? Only Nintendo will know.

 

Edited by Xaos Steel Wing
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5 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

Just because it's been expensive (or even overpriced) in the past, doesn't mean it justifies it being expensive (or overpriced) now.

I know, i was just putting Awakening and Fates into perspective.

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I'd like to thank everybody for taking the time to respond to this thread. I think I understand it all a little better now. Though I guess it is kind of a shame, when you think about it. While I am excited for the story campaign, I highly doubt it will beat The Future Past or Heirs of Fate, which were both amazing. I guess only time will tell.

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I am mixed with it. My issue with the DLC is as it stands right now, I dont see the point. Tier 4 classes, why? Extra grinding maps arent a big deal, but why split them in two? The story maps dont have my attention either. The Cipher characters are the only DLC of any interest for me. IF they add in a Lunatic mode and some kind of challenge map/dungeon I would be tempted to buy a few of the DLC, but otherwise it feels unneeded.

Now about the whole "announced before release" stuff. Sure, it was announced before release in the US, but not in Japan. Maybe a week before the Japanese release they got an announcement, but I dont think they actually did until release. So whether or not it is released until worldwide release is really irrelevant. I took us getting our announcement more as a sign on how fast they are moving with localization.

And in regards to the idea of time being cut to work on the game, keep in mind just how far along the game was when it got announced. The game looked finished when it was announced in February, and localization seemed far along as well. I guarantee the game was just about finished when it was announced, needing only bug testing and finishing touches in order to release. So the idea of DLC being worked on at that point, when most of the development team has finished their job, makes sense. So the idea of us getting the announcement as "early" as we did makes sense.

1 hour ago, Florete said:

You sure about that? Some of it is pretty simple and is being released really quickly. I know not all day-one DLC is "cut from the game" necessarily, but this looks really sketchy.

For an even lower price, Fates offered two more full campaigns. I got all the DLC for Awakening and Fates, but I'll probably skip this time. I feel like they're pushing too far this time and I don't want to tell them that this is okay.

 Just look at the DLC. Do you really think this was the kind of thing to at all be cut from a game? 6 grinding maps, useless classes, and story maps that wouldnt be able to fit anywhere considering the game following Alm and Celica almost exclusively? And Cipher Characters on top of it? This wasnt stuff cut from the game, this was developed later. Seriously, just take a good look at the DLC. Does it at all look like content that would be in the main game?

The big problem with the DLC is it doesnt feel worth it. It doesnt feel like we are getting the bang for our buck like we did with Fates/Awakening. Fates/Awakening classes could be used at any times, effecting entire playthroughs, the story maps were worth it and brought something interesting to the games, the grinding maps scaled and were worth it when it came to convenience, the "fanservice" maps were still fun because they gave extra character interactions. Overall, the previous two games DLC is on par with how you should do DLC. Extra content that is worth the price. Echoes has missed the mark here. The DLC just doesnt feel worth it.

 

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What are the stat caps of the tier 4 classes? As in, are they actually any higher than those of lower-tiered classes? The characters' max stats are already posted on SF so do tier 4 classes ultimately mean nothing besides just being "achievement" costumes?

Edited by Roflolxp54
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I believe the main reason to hate this DLC is that it's obvious IS made these out of pure greed, rather than trying to make a good deal for everyone.

The grinding DLC is nothing new, but making two of them is too much and it's even worse because the base game allows grinding, but they did this with Awakening so I'm not really surprised about this.

Then comes the one that makes the biggest deal out of them all, the overclasses which seem to be nothing more than fancy costumes (unless they come with some sort of limit breaker function). This is akin to the way Bamco sells costumes in the Tales series, which is sad because that's a really scummy practice which offers nothing to the game other than fluff and to make things worse these are really overpriced.

The prologue maps reuse assets from the game, which makes sense in context and I suppose these are expensive due to full voice acting. These are the ones I'm willing to give a pass because they don't seem that harmful.

The Cipher characters DLC, I'll have to see if they get full voices and some unique maps or something, so I can't say anything about these atm.

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The biggest gripe I have with the DLC is that Map Pack 1 is 100% pointless to most people imo. The game isn't so hard that you need a source of grinding and coins early game. Even if you do, you can already do so in-game. You don't even get access to forges until Chapter 3, and by then the early game grinding DLC already falls off in usefulness. However, Map Pack 1 inflates the price of the Season Pass for features not many people want or need, which makes it feel like a low effort way of grabbing cash.

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1 hour ago, Alexmender said:

Then comes the one that makes the biggest deal out of them all, the overclasses which seem to be nothing more than fancy costumes (unless they come with some sort of limit breaker function). This is akin to the way Bamco sells costumes in the Tales series, which is sad because that's a really scummy practice which offers nothing to the game other than fluff and to make things worse these are really overpriced.

I feel the overclasses will be more scummy if they aren't just cosmetic. In that case, you could simply ignore them and have virtually the same experience. But if they do increase your caps or something similar, you're paying $15 for what Awakening charged $3 for.

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