Something Witty

Ideas for for theoritical Fire emblem 6 Echoes

88 posts in this topic

Now I'm going to say right now, that I have never finished Fe 6. However, I do like some of the ideas the game had, and would love to see it remade so the west can play it without emulators. Now, I will say right now that I am a weird person, and the things I value in fire emblem games are different than most people's values. I also some times find smaller details in games agitating, so if you see and idea that seems out of place to you, it is probably because it was meant to fix a small detail that most of you were probably fine with. I would just like to share my ideas for a possible remake of Fe 6 with you all, and would love to see your opinions as well. So here we go...

- A camp after battles, so you won't  just be directed to the battle field after a battle is over. You can talk to characters sort of like in fates (If the next chapter can lead you into getting a new legendary weapon, they can give you clues/rumors that can give you the requirement into getting the weapon), they can give you clues about the requirements, and get items for it. You can also go to town, where you can buy weapons or repair them (another feature I think they should add), recruit a new teamate, or train in the arena.

- An item similiar to Mila's turnwheel, but with different purposes. The person who uses it will be in camp after battles, and with his item, he can tell you if a legendary weapon can be obtained in the next chapter. He will also tell you that you should also protect Fae. This person and the item are basically guides to help you get the best ending.

- Balancing characters and RNG

- make the sword of seals and the legendary weapons unbreakable, but nerf them as well.

- Make the exaccus a special weapon instead of a sword, for instance, it can become either a sword, axe, or spear, depending on the situation.

- Make the final boss resistant to the legendary weapons (don't know how they would integrate this into the story, but the bosses weakness made her much easier). Also make give the final boss max health.

What do you think of these ideas? Do you agree with them, or disagree with them, let me know.

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24 minutes ago, Something Witty said:

- Make the final boss resistant to the legendary weapons (don't know how they would integrate this into the story, but the bosses weakness made her much easier). Also make give the final boss max health.

The only weapons Idoun takes effective damage from are the Divinestone and Binding Blade, actually.  Durandal, Armads, Forblaze, Aureola, Maltet, Murgleis, and Apocalypse do not have an effective modifier on her.  So she technically already is resistant to legendary weapons.

 

For what I'd like, this may seem like a weird desire, but I would like 35-year-old Rebecca to be playable.  Let her have supports with Wolt and Roy, I want to see them actually interact.

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Roy Promotes Earlier (Promotion Time is at Ilia/Sacae campaign). Perhaps include going both to Ilia and Sacae with the player picking which route would be completed first)

Master Seals

Completing Gaiden Chapters unlock Chapter 23 and up. You do not get access to the Divine Weapons until you clear Chapter 22 with Chapter 23 unlocked. Divine Weapons and Sword of Seals is now unbreakable.

POR style Base, Shops and Supports.

Buff Archers and other Low Tier Characters like Spohia and Wendy.

 

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By the time FE6 rolled around, IS had a clear vision of how they want the series to be formatted, so there isn't too much I would change. Other than what's been said, I'll add:

1) Hire Hidari Again.

2) Have Lalum be able to use a weapon. I don't know why dancers lost the ability to wield weapons in the GBA games. If she doesn't have weapons, then she should at least have some skills that'll make her a decent buff bot then.

3) I highly doubt they would change this, but maybe change up the types of mission? It was just seizing IIRC.

 

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1 hour ago, Glaceon Mage said:

The only weapons Idoun takes effective damage from are the Divinestone and Binding Blade, actually.  Durandal, Armads, Forblaze, Aureola, Maltet, Murgleis, and Apocalypse do not have an effective modifier on her.  So she technically already is resistant to legendary weapons.

 

For what I'd like, this may seem like a weird desire, but I would like 35-year-old Rebecca to be playable.  Let her have supports with Wolt and Roy, I want to see them actually interact.

Thank you for clearing that up. I still think she is easy because of the binding blade, but that is becaues of the binding blade I guess. They definitely need to nerf the binding blade, even if it is given late game.

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The things i'd like to see

  • Roy promotes earlier, at the start of the Ilia/Sacae arc
  • This seems obvious but story details that strengthen the connection between Blazing and Binding Blade. Who knows, maybe we'll find out who Roy's mother canonically is.
    • Spoiler

      It's very likely that Roy's mother is Ninian so how about making it so that Roy inherits some of her Ice Dragon powers? That's really ironic when you think about. Though this would likely work better if the Elibe Saga was made into one game, with Blazing being the 1st Generation and Binding being the 2nd.

       

  • Make Idunn a challenge
  • Animated cutscenes (obvious)
  • Letting players know the requirements for unlocking the Gaiden chapters in advance. While some are obvious, such as rescuing Lilina, other requirements, aren't. I'm particularly talking about the turn limit requirement here. Not killing Douglas in Ch.16 is also one of those less obvious requirments.
    • On that note, Douglas should be able to be recruited in Ch.16
  • Divine Stone is unbreakable.
  • Binding Blade is unbreakable.
    • I'm debating if the other Legendary Weapons should be unbreakable as well. On one hand, if they were, it'd be easier to access the true ending but it may also unbalance the game. On the other hand, if they weren't, then the player could screw themselves out of getting the true end.
      • On the subject of Legendary Weapons, Eckesachs should be obtainable after beating Zephiel.
  • Thieves should be able to promote.
  • Monks should be available, or at least let Sages use Light Magic like in Sacred Stones. Being able to use Light Magic in Binding Blade just takes too long, as the only Class that can wield it is the Bishop Class, and the only things that promote to it are Clerics/Priests.
  • S-Supports. Ok, hear me out real quick. Binding Blade only allowed 5 Supports per character per playthrough. A remake would obviously remove that rule. However, by doing so, this gives Roy the ability to A-Rank Lilina, Sophia, Shanna, etc. And as you know, Roy reaching an A-Rank with any of those girls will affect that girl's ending. But since the "5 per playthrough" rule is gone, then Roy can A-Rank all of them, and that would just mess with their endings. So, to fix that, the S-Supports will exist only for Roy. Whoever he S-Supports is who he marries at the end of the game.
    • On a similar note, paired endings please. Remind me again why Noah x Fir isn't a paired ending.
  • New characters, obviously. In fact, throw in the Hasha no Tsurugi characters in there. Like, in Ch.5, instead of getting Gant's Lance, you recruit Gant himself. Although, now that i think about it...
  • Spoiler

    ...A Binding Blade Echoes game should use the story of Hasha no Tsurugi. Ok, hear me out. Binding Blade's story isn't amazing. I mean, it's a fine story but it could've been expanded more. And I don't know about you, but Hasha no Tsurugi did just that. In fact, that manga is probably the biggest reason why Binding Blade is currently my favorite FE. Now of course, they may have to do some creative thinking, as Hasha no Tsurugi didn't end with the fight against Idunn, but rather some other dragon that i forget the name of. This idea is a bit out there but I feel that it could definitely work if done right.

     

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If Nintendo ever decides to do a remake of Binding Blade, This is what I think they should do.

1. Polish the Characters: Right now for the game, very few units have some personality in them. The only character that stands out to me is Ogier in terms of character. And its one of the main reasons that the supports were just bland and boring for the majority of the times. They are so boring that I just only use them for the sake of progression. That and that they are some of the only reliable units out there. Rutger for as amazing as a unit he is, he's just not that deep as a character and his revenge thing is almost incomplete as Raven.

This also includes Roy. Roy as a character is flawless and its because of that he is damn boring as a character. He never has any good memories with his milk brother nor does he talk much outside of what he does. No one can point at him and find faults for his actions not even Eliwood.

2. Re-write support conversations: Now some might argue and say that this game does not have localization and it was fan-translated. I don't know how localization is suppose to make the supports better since its suppose to be translated to english whatsoever but for now, the support conversations are just so boring and nearly forgettable. Many of them won't even last that long of even a basic conversation and Alan X Wolt just proves this. I hate how many conversations are simply about Roy and nothing else. The only one that stands out is Lillina X Ogier but that's about it atleast to me.

I'm tired right now so Stay tuned for part 2.

 

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I personally wouldn't want to see too many gameplay changes to the game, but I would welcome quality of life stuff like a proper battle preparations screen. Maybe base conversations to give you hints about how to progress and additional background.

Also maybe add more paired endings outside of Roy's harem.

Oh, actually, I would totally love the Hasha characters to be in there somewhere. Maybe there could be an Al's story after you beat the game? That's probably wishing too much though XD

At the least, I would want them as DLC characters. C'mon IS, you know you want our money!

One more thing, I would love some more throwbacks to Blazing Blade. Shadows of Valentia did a pretty good job with throwbacks to Marth's games and Awakening.

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Posted (edited)





-the supports need some work I guess. rewrite up to Fe7 standards and add S-supports...sure...

-and they should probably use the new mechanics personal skills, procs, rallies, debuffs, skills on enemies that you need to be aware of as you progressive through maps, branching promotions, at a bare minimum.

As good as the game is--the gameplay would feel dated and too simplistic if reintroduced today with only the GBA era mechanics, and nothing else.  

What I'd  mainly like to see—and if they did this correctly FE6 remastered would be my favorite game in the series—is to not add “new” characters, but to instead reintroduction and reintegrate more of the characters who appeared in FE7 but not in FE6.

Like for real…If they made an FE6 remake where you can meet and recruit 38-year-old Swordmaster Lyndis on the Sacaen route…

…and have the choice to take middle-aged, pre-promoted Paladin Lowen with you as your Jeigen-of-choice when you start your adventure, instead of Old Man Marcus.

…and can somehow recruit middle-aged, pre-promoted Sage Erk when you get to the Etruria arc.

If they go about adding additional characters THAT WAY.

If we get more information on what the old FE7 gang is doing 20 years later and what they’ve been doing between the events of FE7 and FE6.

If they build upon the connections between FE6 and FE7, making a remastered FE6 more of a true sequel to FE7 (as opposed to FE7 being a prequel to FE6).

omgomgomgomg…I would lose my mind.

I hope someone at I.S. is working on that right now. RIGHT now.

Edited by Shoblongoo

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Well, if IS ever gets around releasing an FE6 remake, wish they could bundle FE7 together with it. Also, no more DLCs please. I just want a vanilla FE experience. 

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I definitely wouldn't want just make it into Fates/PoR/Awakening clone.

-For one unbreakable weapons are bad idea.

-I would leave dancers as supporting units only (at most with self-defense mechanics) maybe just added some buffing/rebuffing.

-Unlimited supports. Maybe just maybe S rank ones could be done, but still number of supports should be limited per game. So one can be motivated play it again. Of course allowing make couples outside Roy's harem is must.

-No Lyn in Sacae. Unless it comes in pocket with FE 7 echoes and transfers data's.

In other hand rebalancilpng some units wouldn't be bad. 

-Cecilia gett

- add map or two with swords for chance level Gwen ect...

Of course Roy need promote sooner.

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Posted (edited)

Ok so part 2...

3. Redraw the characters: I don't know what you guys think of the overall character designs of the game but many character designs feel incomplete or that they just look very generic.

The best example is Dieck.

Portrait:

Image result for Dieck fire emblem

His actual character model:

Dieck as a Mercenary

Can you see the problem here? Portrait shows in shirtless but the sprite doesn't. Even his pants aren't suppose to be blue either.

Another example:

Geese-1FE6

 

Geese as a Pirate

 

Same thing here, looks nothing like his portrait.

Most of these bosses are just copy paste with the only difference being color.

RaethTeck

Now in your defense for this, you'd say that many RPGs are guilty of this copy paste color difference but Fire Emblem never does that or at the least didn't overdo it until FE6. 

And lastly, awkward sprites as well

Image result

 

Atleast Blazing Blade fixed this issue and made the characters more identifiable and I'm happy with that. But here...no, some of the character designs have a sense of disbelief here and it all the more feels like its rushed instead of being thought out here.


Stay tuned for part 3. Why am I doing in parts, because I have a LOT to discuss about how I feel they should do to make the remake all the more better.

EDIT: Also just to avoid confusion, Some character designs are quite good like Rutger and Percival to name just a few. Its many designs like Dieck that are often questionable.

 

Edited by Harvey

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16 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Ok so part 2...

3. Redraw the characters: I don't know what you guys think of the overall character designs of the game but many character designs feel incomplete or that they just look very generic.

The best example is Dieck.

Portrait:

Image result for Dieck fire emblem

His actual character model:

Dieck as a Mercenary

Can you see the problem here? Portrait shows in shirtless but the sprite doesn't. Even his pants aren't suppose to be blue either.

Okay, forgive me for going off-topic a little bit, but I've had a few arguments about the mercenary sprite. I STRONGLY believe the mercenary sprite has no shirt and a single, large shoulder-pad. I think the sprite itself was poorly executed, but I do believe the original sprite was based on Deick, and as a result, the somewhat shoddy sprite ended up being touched up for FE7, but the pallete itself was never changed. So all the mercs are still wearing a shoulder-pad with no shirt, according to me anyways.

The argument that I was presented with was that the flesh tones on the torso are some sort of strap. But if it is a strap, why not use the brown tones used on the boots? 

I got into this argument in the first place because someone modified the proportions but not the outfit to make a female merc, and I was concerned that one of her boobs was just, hangin out.

No one needs to agree with me, I'll drop it. Just can't help mentioning it.

Mostly back on topic, the sprites are fairly rough in FE6, and Geese's sprites are both no where close to representing what the character looks like. And shoulder-pad or shirt, Deick's pants are just the wrong color.

Would two unique class models for most characters be unreasonable in a remake? I can understand why Awakening, Fates, and even Echoes wouldn't do it, since characters have so many options. But with linear promotions, maybe it'd be worth doing?

I don't actually know if Echoes did or did not do it, I've been pretty good at avoiding info to go in fresh.

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2 hours ago, Harvey said:

Most of these bosses are just copy paste with the only difference being color.

RaethTeck

Now in your defense for this, you'd say that many RPGs are guilty of this copy paste color difference but Fire Emblem never does that or at the least didn't overdo it until FE6. 

About that...

Of course, a remake should really fix that, you're right about that, but FE1 even had several pairs of playable characters with identical (not even recoloured) mugs, as well as Barst who is a palette swap of Bord and Cord. Same with the combat sprites, really - most older FE games (including the DS remakes) only have one sprite per class, or two if there's a male and female variant, that just has a unique palette for playable characters and bosses. It's particularly jarring with Geese and the bearded sage bosses, that's true and I'm sure it would be corrected in a potential remake.

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Posted (edited)

Now comes Part 3 and the most controversial one I think.

3. Balance the Difficulty of the whole game: The game like any FE game has balancing issues but more so on the annoying side of things.

The first annoying thing this game has is its lord. Roy is crappy throughout the major chunk of the game. His bases are low for a lord, he is swordlocked even when he promotes and as a result, he has poor movement. The only thing this guy can do is ending chapters so dragging him to the throne itself is such a chore that you need to rescue him to take him all the way to the throne. This is especially apparent in chapter 14 where you have to drag him outside of the throne instead of using him to kiil the boss of said throne. 

It also doesn't help that he's extremely fragile to the point that even a ballista can rip him up easily. You can't rely on him and yet you have to keep him alive. Lords  are an important aspect in Fire Emblem because you experience the games in their eyes. 

Some might want to say that this brings a new strategy in the game where you have to be a bit extra careful in the game. But the problem with this is that for Roy, his only real thing to do is just fleeing from strong enemies before they can easily kill him. I get why some might like this strategy but if atleast his bases were atleast mediocre, then fine but its not even mediocre, its just bad.

The second annoying thing this game has is the character balancing. You are pretty much forced to use characters that you may not like using at all. Any FE6 gamer out there will pretty much advise you to use Rutger throughout the entire game simply because of how much of a blessing he really is because GOOD LUCK BEATING THE GAME WITHOUT HIM!

Why? Well let me just sum this up. FE6 has a whopping 54 characters in them and out of all of them, 16 of them are highly recommended, 18 decent units and 20 horrible units. So you can see how huge the cast is here besides Fates. Except the problem is here that out of all of them, which ones do you like to train? Because I can tell you right now that benching  five of those recommended units is stupid to do since Alan and Lance are needed for a good chunk of the game till Percival shows up and the same goes for Dieck until Rutger shows up and the same goes for Rutger untill you get either Fir, Percival or Karel(though its pointless since he's only useful for one chapter).

So you're going to find yourself a hard time figuring out which units you like to use. As a result, you're pretty much forced to use the ones you don't like using or that you find them good but then boring as characters as said earlier. The worst unit Lot has the best defense growth in the game and he has issues because of him being axe locked which in this game is a problem since axes have low hit rates. And when they DO have potential, its only because many of them need supports which take like forever to get them to start chatting.

Sure, some stat boosters and arena abuse can help make those characters useful but do you have such patience to do that? 

Then the third and the last thing about the game, its challenge.

Most of the maps have fair challenge in them but the reason why its not fair for many of them is two things:

1. Pointless enemy reinforcements

2. Annoying fetch quests

Enemy reinforcements are common and are needed to get that extra EXP to your units. But in this game, they spawn like crazy to the point that they will even spawn when you even killed the boss of said chapter and you're like "why are you still around? You're boss is dead! go to your mom or something already!" And they kill ya. Had the enemy spawns been decent, it can make the game less of a pain to play. The maps that don't have any of this are the gaiden chapters and those are the best part of this game since the spawns aren't that tedious and are quite fair. I think only one chapter has an annoying spawn but that's about it.

And then, the game has fetch quests that are not bad, but annoying. Chapter 10B forces you to Recruit Klein and Tate fast before the bandits kill those villagers fast enough and you need them to get important items. And the process of getting gaiden chapters is itself tedious to do since you have to beat most chapters within a limited number of turns to unlock them otherwise, you can't get them and if you can't get them, you can't beat the final boss.

Stay tuned for part 4.

@ping To be fair, FE1 was released on NES where there were a lot of technical limits so copy pasting was the general thing during that ere. I'm talking about more as in how many RPGs just do different color to enemies very often during the SNES era and FE doesn't do stuff like that but I digress.

 

 

Edited by Harvey

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7 hours ago, Harvey said:

The first annoying thing this game has is its lord. Roy is crappy throughout the major chunk of the game. His bases are low for a lord, he is swordlocked even when he promotes and as a result, he has poor movement. The only thing this guy can do is ending chapters so dragging him to the throne itself is such a chore that you need to rescue him to take him all the way to the throne. This is especially apparent in chapter 14 where you have to drag him outside of the throne instead of using him to kiil the boss of said throne. 

Really, the only thing that needs to be fixed about Roy is his promotion time. A lot of people i've talked to say that Roy has decent stats and growths that are just held back by a super late promotion. Even then though, i've never really had a problem with using Roy. Just give him the Boots and maybe a Speedwing so he doesn't fall behind.

7 hours ago, Harvey said:

It also doesn't help that he's extremely fragile to the point that even a ballista can rip him up easily.

Um......not really. His defenses are pretty decent. Not resistance, i remember i went an entire playthrough and he only had 4 Res by the end. And Ballistas aren't that common.

I play on Normal btw, so maybe you're going off of Hard.

 

7 hours ago, Harvey said:

The second annoying thing this game has is the character balancing. You are pretty much forced to use characters that you may not like using at all. Any FE6 gamer out there will pretty much advise you to use Rutger throughout the entire game simply because of how much of a blessing he really is because GOOD LUCK BEATING THE GAME WITHOUT HIM!

Fact: I've beaten the game without Rutger. It's not that hard. In my first playthrough, i ended up using Fir instead. Other fact: I use Sophia every time. Every. Single. Time. Really, the only characters that suffer from character balance is Gwendolyn (Knight, Lance-locked, joins right before Axeland, also she's Lv.1), Sophia (Shaman, Lv.1, joins in a desert+Fog of War map) and.......that's really it. You could argue Lilina and Fir as well but Lilina isn't that hard to train, especially since she has an insanely fast Support growth with Roy (this helps Roy as well) and while Fir joins at Lv.1, she's also a Myrmidon who joins in Axeland. Literally put her in a forest and the bandits can't touch her (except when they do because RNG).

7 hours ago, Harvey said:

Sure, some stat boosters and arena abuse can help make those characters useful but do you have such patience to do that? 

The fuck? I can understand arena abuse but if you don't have the patience to use a stat booster, then no offense, but that's just sad.

7 hours ago, Harvey said:

Most of the maps have fair challenge in them but the reason why its not fair for many of them is two things:

1. Pointless enemy reinforcements

2. Annoying fetch quests

Enemy reinforcements are common and are needed to get that extra EXP to your units. But in this game, they spawn like crazy to the point that they will even spawn when you even killed the boss of said chapter and you're like "why are you still around? You're boss is dead! go to your mom or something already!" And they kill ya. Had the enemy spawns been decent, it can make the game less of a pain to play. The maps that don't have any of this are the gaiden chapters and those are the best part of this game since the spawns aren't that tedious and are quite fair. I think only one chapter has an annoying spawn but that's about it.

And then, the game has fetch quests that are not bad, but annoying. Chapter 10B forces you to Recruit Klein and Tate fast before the bandits kill those villagers fast enough and you need them to get important items. And the process of getting gaiden chapters is itself tedious to do since you have to beat most chapters within a limited number of turns to unlock them otherwise, you can't get them and if you can't get them, you can't beat the final boss.

  1. The only time reinforcements were actually bullshit in Binding Blade was in Ch.21. Outside of Ch.21, reinforcements are pretty easy to deal with.
  2. I specifically agree with the village part. In Ch.11A, the only way to even have a chance to save the villages is to kill the boss. That delays the bandit spawns. You do this by going through the path at the top right and breaking through the wall.
7 hours ago, Harvey said:

And the process of getting gaiden chapters is itself tedious to do since you have to beat most chapters within a limited number of turns to unlock them otherwise, you can't get them and if you can't get them, you can't beat the final boss.

No, what they really need to do is let you know how to access the gaiden chapters in the first place. Especially for ones like Ch.16x. But the requirements themselves aren't that tedious. Not to mention, the turn limit is generous. It's usually 20 turns, sometimes 25, and to unlock 21x, it's 30 turns (beating Ch.21 is a pain in the ass though).

 

10 hours ago, Harvey said:

Most of these bosses are just copy paste with the only difference being color.

RaethTeck

Now in your defense for this, you'd say that many RPGs are guilty of this copy paste color difference but Fire Emblem never does that or at the least didn't overdo it until FE6. 

I remember Awakening sometimes just straight-up having carbon copies of boss portraits. Not even a change in color. 

 

Also, i want to some of your other points

22 hours ago, Harvey said:

Polish the Characters: Right now for the game, very few units have some personality in them. The only character that stands out to me is Ogier in terms of character. And its one of the main reasons that the supports were just bland and boring for the majority of the times. They are so boring that I just only use them for the sake of progression. That and that they are some of the only reliable units out there. Rutger for as amazing as a unit he is, he's just not that deep as a character and his revenge thing is almost incomplete as Raven.

This is more of just a you thing, really. I like Binding Blade's cast. Actually, i like most of every game's cast. But 80% of FE characters are either one-note, or they aren't deep characters. It's gonna come down to personal preference. Anyway, since Binding Blade's characters are established, they probably won't do much to them. The most they'll do is give them full voice acting, which actually helps a lot.

22 hours ago, Harvey said:

This also includes Roy. Roy as a character is flawless and its because of that he is damn boring as a character. 

Is he? Is he though?

Spoiler

Cecilia: Right. Roy...you know how he is. If I taught him magic, he would have practiced and practiced to master it.

Lilina: Yes, you're right. But...

Cecilia: You see, practice isn't enough to master a school of magic. You need talent, and that can't be obtained through mere training. What would Roy think if there was a person with that talent right near him? He's working as hard...no, probably even harder than that person, but still he's lagging far behind. What would he feel like?

Roy has an inferiority complex. That's a flaw right there. 

22 hours ago, Harvey said:

He never has any good memories with his milk brother

Because Wolt wouldn't let Roy talk about any of that, and that actually kinda frustrated Roy.

22 hours ago, Harvey said:

No one can point at him and find faults for his actions not even Eliwood.

Ok, Eliwood is practically irrelevant in Binding Blade. He appears in Ch.1, and is mentioned in Ch.10, but that's it.

 

22 hours ago, Harvey said:

2. Re-write support conversations: Now some might argue and say that this game does not have localization and it was fan-translated. I don't know how localization is suppose to make the supports better since its suppose to be translated to english whatsoever but for now, the support conversations are just so boring and nearly forgettable. Many of them won't even last that long of even a basic conversation and Alan X Wolt just proves this. I hate how many conversations are simply about Roy and nothing else. The only one that stands out is Lillina X Ogier but that's about it atleast to me.

I disagree, though like characters, it's gonna come down to personal taste. Also, the part that's bolded, what? There are a lot of Support conversations that aren't about Roy.

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1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Really, the only thing that needs to be fixed about Roy is his promotion time. A lot of people i've talked to say that Roy has decent stats and growths that are just held back by a super late promotion. Even then though, i've never really had a problem with using Roy. Just give him the Boots and maybe a Speedwing so he doesn't fall behind.

Oh yeah I forgot about that. It still doesn't make up for his poor bases anyways. 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Um......not really. His defenses are pretty decent. Not resistance, i remember i went an entire playthrough and he only had 4 Res by the end. And Ballistas aren't that common.

I play on Normal btw, so maybe you're going off of Hard.

The only thing I don't like about his growth rates is that his luck is high. I'd rather remove 20% of that for either strength or skill.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Fact: I've beaten the game without Rutger. It's not that hard. In my first playthrough, i ended up using Fir instead. Other fact: I use Sophia every time. Every. Single. Time. Really, the only characters that suffer from character balance is Gwendolyn (Knight, Lance-locked, joins right before Axeland, also she's Lv.1), Sophia (Shaman, Lv.1, joins in a desert+Fog of War map) and.......that's really it. You could argue Lilina and Fir as well but Lilina isn't that hard to train, especially since she has an insanely fast Support growth with Roy (this helps Roy as well) and while Fir joins at Lv.1, she's also a Myrmidon who joins in Axeland. Literally put her in a forest and the bandits can't touch her (except when they do because RNG).

The problem with Fir is that she's more fragile than Rutger and she doesn't crit as often as him. Rutger gets insane bonuses from his supports that Fir wishes she can get.

But either way, I already mentioned this here.

9 hours ago, Harvey said:

FE6 has a whopping 54 characters in them and out of all of them, 16 of them are highly recommended, 18 decent units and 20 horrible units.

So Fir obviously is one of those 16 units out there. They may be usable if you know what you're doing but its such a pain to just get them to work.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

The fuck? I can understand arena abuse but if you don't have the patience to use a stat booster, then no offense, but that's just sad.

While some stat boosters are easy to get, others fall into the arena abuse if you want to get more of them so yeah...:P

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

The only time reinforcements were actually bullshit in Binding Blade was in Ch.21. Outside of Ch.21, reinforcements are pretty easy to deal with.

Not really. Most of them appear in places that are annoying. Again, reinforcements here spawn like crazy to the point that you need to block them. 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Is he? Is he though?

A support conversation doesn't judge his personality. In the end, he's just boring, simple as that.

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Also, the part that's bolded, what? There are a lot of Support conversations that aren't about Roy.

That maybe so but there's still a good chunk of them that's about Roy.

 

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43 minutes ago, Harvey said:

A support conversation doesn't judge his personality. In the end, he's just boring, simple as that.

 

Bruh, Support Conversations are where 90% of character development comes from.

Also, the bolded part, you say that like it's a fact, when it isn't.

I would anwser to the rest but quoting multiple parts is a pain in the ass on mobile.

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33 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Oh yeah I forgot about that. It still doesn't make up for his poor bases anyways. 

A lot of early enemies are fighters, who have WTD against him on top of poor accuracy, and cavs, who are weak to his Rapier.  It really is just the promotion time.  What's more, Roy's bases are pretty much standard Lord faire if you look at them:

Roy: 18 HP, 5 Str, 5 Skl, 7 Spd, 7 Luck, 5 Def, 0 Res

Eliwood: 18 HP, 5 Str, 5 Skl, 7 Spd, 7 Luck, 5 Def, 0 Res (The apple really didn't fall far from the tree).

Ike (in FE9): 19 HP, 5 Str, 6 Skl, 7 Spd, 6 Luck, 5 Def, 0 Res

Marth (in FE11): 18 HP, 5 Str, 3 Skl, 7 Spd, 7 Luck, 7 Def, 0 Res

etc.

42 minutes ago, Harvey said:

The only thing I don't like about his growth rates is that his luck is high. I'd rather remove 20% of that for either strength or skill.

Roy's Growths:

80% HP, 40% Str, 50% Skl, 40% Spd, 60% Luck, 25% Def, 30% Res

They're really not that bad by FE6 standard, it's just most of them are rather average and sans luck he doesn't really focus on anything.

45 minutes ago, Harvey said:

The problem with Fir is that she's more fragile than Rutger and she doesn't crit as often as him. Rutger gets insane bonuses from his supports that Fir wishes she can get.

Uh, What?  Fir has a Fire Affinity (which gives Crit), and has three supports with characters with +Crit Affinities (Those being Bartre, Rutger, and Karel), which is more than enough.  Bartre is a particularly fast support for her.

I'd argue Trained Fir is better than a trained Rutger since she has a higher Luck stat, which boosts her dodgetanking ability.  SM's are all about dodging.  The reason Rutger is considered better is pretty much entirely due to earlygame contributions.

50 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Not really. Most of them appear in places that are annoying. Again, reinforcements here spawn like crazy to the point that you need to block them. 

The only chapters I can think of where the reinforcements are particularly bothersome are 4 and 21.  Besides that, they're pretty much entirely manageable and spawn some distance away from where you're expected to be, even on Hard.  

52 minutes ago, Harvey said:

That maybe so but there's still a good chunk of them that's about Roy.

Pretty much the only character who tends to talk about Roy outside of conversations with him is Lilina, and even then, it only really comes up in the supports with Marcus and Cecilia.  Roy's retainers will mention him, but they don't really talk about him.  And he's mentioned in passing in a few others.  That's really not a lot in the grand scheme of things.

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I have to agree that Roy isn't the most notable Lord in FE history. His personal involvement (if that's the right term) isn't as big as it is for other lords - his home country gets invaded, sure, but that plot arc is resolved after chapter 8 and the game even takes its time to include some rather inconsequentual bandit-killing chapters before that. The rest of the game is about Etruria's internal conflicts, Bern's involvement in them and ultimately about the obligatory save-the-world-from-the-dragons. Roy and the Lycians just happen to be at the right place at the right time to take part in the action, but compared to, say, Eliwood, who is trying to save his father and later his love interest for a big part of the game, Roy's role in the game is rather subdued.

I'm saying this as an observation though, not as criticism. Roy could do with a bit more of fallibility over the course of the game because let's be honest - he does do the right thing pretty much every time that he makes a decision with Merlinus acting as the straw naysayer all the fucking time. But I vastly prefer his role to Corrin's in Fates (to take the opposite extreme) and I think that Roy makes a better stand-in character for the player than any of the avatars of the newest (non-Echoes) games because he kinda pokes his nose in the ongoing events the same way the player does.

38 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Roy: 18 HP, 5 Str, 5 Skl, 7 Spd, 7 Luck, 5 Def, 0 Res

Eliwood: 18 HP, 5 Str, 5 Skl, 7 Spd, 7 Luck, 5 Def, 0 Res (The apple really didn't fall far from the tree).

Ike (in FE9): 19 HP, 5 Str, 6 Skl, 7 Spd, 6 Luck, 5 Def, 0 Res

Marth (in FE11): 18 HP, 5 Str, 3 Skl, 7 Spd, 7 Luck, 7 Def, 0 Res

Also wow, I did not remember Ike's PoR bases being that low. But to be fair, both Eliwood and SD!Marth are considered to be rather weak lords as well, and Ike needs some time to go full juggernaut despite PoR's enemies being rather wimpy.

Considering reinforcements, I do dislike ambush spawns in general, so I would hope that reinforcements would either spawn at the start of the player phase, or that the game explicitly shows that this enemy unit will appear on that tile at the start of the next EP. But really, this is a complaint about the majority of FE games (friggin wyvern in FE12, man...).

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42 minutes ago, ping said:

Also wow, I did not remember Ike's PoR bases being that low. But to be fair, both Eliwood and SD!Marth are considered to be rather weak lords as well, and Ike needs some time to go full juggernaut despite PoR's enemies being rather wimpy.

The way I tend to summarize FE9 Ike from a gameplay standpoint is:

Roy, except with a decent promotion time and trading Luck for Defenses.

The sad part is the story event Ike uses to promote is quite similar in nature to Roy being made General of the Etrurian Army, and if Roy used aforementioned plot point to promote he still wouldn't be the best but he would be significantly better.  

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Tie-ins to FE7 would work and certainly be something I'd approve of, interlinking the games might be a bit too much though.

There are three ways we can handle Roy's promotion: the post-C16 option, massive promotion bonuses, or give him an increased unpromoted level cap.

When the redesigns come, do cut down on the difference between the games. FE6 and 7 share a general aesthetic, but 7 cuts down on the cartoonish side of things and fades the colors a bit, and I prefer that small change. Compare Rath and Sue and Karla and Fir on the Binding Blade-Blazing Sword page on this site to see what I mean.

I've also heard FE6 C24 called an expose dump- maybe reallocate bits of it to the prior gaiden chapters?

A minor detail I'd like explored in a nugget of new dialogue is what happened to the Bern royal family after the Fire Emblem incident. Did Helene's attempt to reconcile with Desmond undone by him, or did she revert to her callous ways? What did Zephiel think of it all? Or just a few lines at least from Zephiel regarding his mother.

3 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

The way I tend to summarize FE9 Ike from a gameplay standpoint is:

Roy, except with a decent promotion time and trading Luck for Defenses.

The sad part is the story event Ike uses to promote is quite similar in nature to Roy being made General of the Etrurian Army, and if Roy used aforementioned plot point to promote he still wouldn't be the best but he would be significantly better.  

Fairly true. Ragnell I've discovered is near identical to the Binding Blade too, with even less availability and frills, but being tied to a better combat unit and infinite uses makes it better. And given how late the BB comes, let's give it infinite uses in a remake. (The Regal Sword and Roy's Rapier are likewise near identical.)

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, Armagon said:

Bruh, Support Conversations are where 90% of character development comes from.

Also, the bolded part, you say that like it's a fact, when it isn't.

I would anwser to the rest but quoting multiple parts is a pain in the ass on mobile.

If you truly like Roy as a character, more power to you. But Roy to me is boring because he doesn't have any sense of other emotions besides doing his duty.

10 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

What's more, Roy's bases are pretty much standard Lord faire if you look at them:

Roy: 18 HP, 5 Str, 5 Skl, 7 Spd, 7 Luck, 5 Def, 0 Res

Eliwood: 18 HP, 5 Str, 5 Skl, 7 Spd, 7 Luck, 5 Def, 0 Res (The apple really didn't fall far from the tree).

Ike (in FE9): 19 HP, 5 Str, 6 Skl, 7 Spd, 6 Luck, 5 Def, 0 Res

Marth (in FE11): 18 HP, 5 Str, 3 Skl, 7 Spd, 7 Luck, 7 Def, 0 Res

I was referring to how since his promotion is very late in the game, those base stats are horrendous. He can't even rip off the first boss with that kind of stats. If it were tweaked a little, then I'd accept the late promotion.

10 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Uh, What?  Fir has a Fire Affinity (which gives Crit), and has three supports with characters with +Crit Affinities (Those being Bartre, Rutger, and Karel), which is more than enough.  Bartre is a particularly fast support for her.

I'd argue Trained Fir is better than a trained Rutger since she has a higher Luck stat, which boosts her dodgetanking ability.  SM's are all about dodging.  The reason Rutger is considered better is pretty much entirely due to earlygame contributions.

Keep in mind that for her to get supports, you have to use Noah, Rutger, Bartre and Karel. Bartre is path forced and Karel comes like near endgame which by then becomes pointless.

Which means that if you stick with Lalum route, her important support is wasted. Rutger on the other hand only needs Clarine who compared to other healers is decent enough despite Lillina always being the better healer and Dieck who is very useful and both of these units are not path locked. These two supports alone can make him more deadly than Fir. That and as you said, Rutger comes earlier.

10 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

The only chapters I can think of where the reinforcements are particularly bothersome are 4 and 21.  Besides that, they're pretty much entirely manageable and spawn some distance away from where you're expected to be, even on Hard.  

Just what is your problem if I find the spawn places in this game annoying? Can you honestly say that the spawns happening in chapter 10B are fair?

Infact, just what is your problem if I even try to give reasonable criticism to this game? Am I sounding like an IGN reviewer?

 

10 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Pretty much the only character who tends to talk about Roy outside of conversations with him is Lilina, and even then, it only really comes up in the supports with Marcus and Cecilia.  Roy's retainers will mention him, but they don't really talk about him.  And he's mentioned in passing in a few others.  That's really not a lot in the grand scheme of things.

Supports that mention Roy solely or atleast briefly about him.

DieckXLot

AlanXLance

MarcusXWolt

WoltXAlan

Ceclia X Lillina

Lillina X Gonzalez

Clarine X Lance

LanceXMarcus

AlanXMarcus

This list is decent enough to say that Roy is mentioned at some point. The issue here is how nearly every single support shows praise at Roy or are determined to help Roy. The only one that questions Roy is DieckXLot but even that conversation is shallow at that since they still have no doubts on Roy.

Even then, The supports, I don't like them a whole lot because of them being simple. A Localization of this can get that easily fixed.

So now comes my final part..how can this game be remade?

Some people think that FE7 X FE6 should be meshed together as one game and do something like Holy War. The problem here is that both games have huge chunk of content that it'd be a nightmare to beat them both let alone develop for them together as both. The idea seems nice on paper but practically, its another story.

And some people claim that if Roy's promotion is early, it fixes a whole lot of issues. Here's the problem though. Roy can only promote when he gets the binding blade since the binding blade is how insanely powerful he becomes which means the story has to be tweaked which many will not like that aspect.

And yet this late promotion for FE7 isn't a problem in that game since your units are capable to even beat the final boss and that Athos with Luna wrecks it. 

So what really is the problem? How can FE6 be fixed? 

Well to me, Casual mode is a must. The game like every FE game out there while not very hard is still tough and compared to other games, this one has annoying parts such as the cryptic gaiden chapters on your first playthrough, annoying fetch quests and pointless enemy spawns.

The other thing to fix is atleast the hit rates for Axes. Granted, most axe units you have got low skills which means nothing if the hit rates in axes are polished but then the mercenaries alongside the paladins have decent skills that can make use of them.

And repolish character development. Because of two reasons.

1. since the game is fan translated, localizing the game is going to indicate that they will have better development and Rutger needs it.

2. If Mystery of the Emblem and Shadow Dragon can help make Marth as a better character, then so can this remake.

The Hasha manga sounds like a nice idea though. my favorite character has to be Al in the manga. 

Lastly, tweak those fetch quests a bit. most of them are annoying. And I'll leave it at that.

 

Edited by Harvey

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BB has 143 support pairs as a whole (unless my maths just failed me), so 9 supports wouldn't even be excessive if they were solely focussed on the main character of the game, which they don't. Also, note that out of the 10 characters you've listed, four are Roy's retainers, one is his heavily implied love interest, and one used to be his teacher (and is the only other female that might show some interest in Roy, even if it's just a line or two). The only support that doesn't include one of these is the Deke/Lot one, and then again, it makes perfect sense for mercenaries to discuss their choice in employers. I can't recall if you've played Fates, but trying to argue that FE6 is too lord-focussed compared to other titles is honestly kinda ridiculous. In my last post, I explained why I think that Roy is the least intrusive lord in the series, so I'll just refer to it here.

Fir vs. Rutger: I'd argue that if their recruitment was flipped, so would their roles. And if they were recruited at the same time, they would be almost completely interchangeable, although Rutger being closer to promotion would probably mean that he would still be slightly ahead. But their Str is basically identical, Rutger has a slight Def lead, while Fir is a little bit more dodgy. So really, it's all about the join time because Rutger will have a excessive XP lead after killing a boss or five before Fir joins, and promoting him for the 8x boss is a recommendable plan. I honestly would not include supports into this comparision either way, though - Rutger's grow excruciatingly slow exept for his Clarine support, and even that one is only as fast as Fir/Shin. Fir at least has the option to have Bartre give her some boosts as long as he's viable if you went his route, but that's about it.

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

And some people claim that if Roy's promotion is early, it fixes a whole lot of issues. Here's the problem though. Roy can only promote when he gets the binding blade since the binding blade is how insanely powerful he becomes which means the story has to be tweaked which many will not like that aspect.

Roy literally gets promoted to be the commander of the Etrurian forces before chapter 17. You'd have to add one scene to show that instead of having the narrator summarizing it and you'd be golden. Compared to the changes you're suggesting at every other point of the game, that's but a drop in the ocean.

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

And yet this late promotion for FE7 isn't a problem in that game since your units are capable to even beat the final boss and that Athos with Luna wrecks it. 

How does that make sense? Idoun is a complete joke of a final boss and the Binding Blade could almost beat her on its own without Roy's stats attached to it. I think most players will agree that Roy's late promotion is even worse than Eliwood's/Hector's in their respective modes, but the trouble are the chapters between (plus/minus) 17 and 22, not the endgame where Roy is easily carried by the Binding Blade's stats.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, ping said:

Roy literally gets promoted to be the commander of the Etrurian forces before chapter 17. You'd have to add one scene to show that instead of having the narrator summarizing it and you'd be golden. Compared to the changes you're suggesting at every other point of the game, that's but a drop in the ocean.

That is only a minor thing as he still leads his army whatever the case but I digress.

1 hour ago, ping said:

How does that make sense? Idoun is a complete joke of a final boss and the Binding Blade could almost beat her on its own without Roy's stats attached to it. I think most players will agree that Roy's late promotion is even worse than Eliwood's/Hector's in their respective modes, but the trouble are the chapters between (plus/minus) 17 and 22, not the endgame where Roy is easily carried by the Binding Blade's stats

I have no idea why I said that honestly. I guess some found the late promotion thing more apparent in FE7 so It kinda slipped in.

EDIT: Also, touche on the fates argument

 

Edited by Harvey

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