Ideas for for theoritical Fire emblem 6 Echoes

[Magical Glace]

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

That is only a minor thing as he still leads his army whatever the case but I digress.

It's a nearly identical plot point to what causes Ike to promote in Path of Radiance (Ike promotes due to being made General of the Crimean Liberation Army).  

So being made a General is a totally valid reason to promote a lord, and it significantly improves his gameplay performance.  

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

I was referring to how since his promotion is very late in the game, those base stats are horrendous. He can't even rip off the first boss with that kind of stats. If it were tweaked a little, then I'd accept the late promotion.

You're not supposed to be able to rip up a boss easily?  It's a boss. 

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Keep in mind that for her to get supports, you have to use Noah, Rutger, Bartre and Karel. Bartre is path forced and Karel comes like near endgame which by then becomes pointless.

Which means that if you stick with Lalum route, her important support is wasted. Rutger on the other hand only needs Clarine who compared to other healers is decent enough despite Lillina always being the better healer and Dieck who is very useful and both of these units are not path locked. These two supports alone can make him more deadly than Fir. That and as you said, Rutger comes earlier.

Rutger/Dieck is slow as molasses, His only decent speed support is with Clarine and even then it's significantly worse than Bartre/Fir.  

Also

>Lilina is a better healer than Clarine

Not with base E staves in [chapter she's promoted] and no horse.  Staff Rank takes forever to rise in FE6, and being a healer on wheels is always better than being a healer without them.

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Just what is your problem if I find the spawn places in this game annoying? Can you honestly say that the spawns happening in chapter 10B are fair?

Infact, just what is your problem if I even try to give reasonable criticism to this game? Am I sounding like an IGN reviewer?

It's been a while since I did 10B, but I don't remember having any sort of trouble with it.  While I don't think ambush spawning is a good idea, FE6's reinforcements usually spawn away from the player/are very repetitive and thus become predictable quickly, and there's often some dialogue hint in the middle of battle about it (ie Chapter 7 has the boss gloat about the player being hit from behind and the player hears every word.

Because I don't find your criticism reasonable at all a good portion of the time?

Edited May 20, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[Harvey]

37 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

 While I don't think ambush spawning is a good idea, FE6's reinforcements usually spawn away from the player/are very repetitive and thus become predictable quickly, and there's often some dialogue hint in the middle of battle about it (ie Chapter 7 has the boss gloat about the player being hit from behind and the player hears every word.

 

And its even worse the more distant they are as chapter 21 shows that perfectly. And its only predictable after the first time you played the maps or after your first playthrough. In this case Awakening fixed that in the sense that those who picked normal didn't have to suffer the enemy bush attack all of a sudden and in harder modes, that's done.

40 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

You're not supposed to be able to rip up a boss easily?  It's a boss. 

Its the first boss of the game which should atleast not be so hard to do to kill it off. But here? taking a huge hit if Roy does get hit from the first boss is already bad enough. Atleast Hard mode I can understand but Normal? In many FE games before this, the First boss is always a cakewalk unless you go to harder modes.

43 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Because I don't find your criticism reasonable at all a good portion of the time?

Whatever I said in those parts are reasonable and like I said, that's what I THINK should be remade. If you don't agree with it, then fine but I just find that even if I say something like the RNG being horrible, you'd bash me at that when everyone else says so otherwise. 

 

45 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Lilina is a better healer than Clarine

Not with base E staves in [chapter she's promoted] and no horse.  Staff Rank takes forever to rise in FE6, and being a healer on wheels is always better than being a healer without them.

Still can't argue with that 30 mag though. She's also cheap in that you don't need mend to heal more. Just a normal heal staff will do which saves a LOT of money btw. Better make that a note to myself on my next playthrough.

 

[ping]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

That is only a minor thing as he still leads his army whatever the case but I digress.

Well, there is a certain disconnect in many FE games between their gameplay (small skirmishes with far less than 100 fighters in total) and the story they usually tell (the epic battle between nations/good and evil/humankind and dragonkind). Some titles, especially the Tellius games, imply that the player is only seeing a small part of the overall battle, or even let the player characters conduct small, but important missions (burning the supplies in Radiant Dawn comes to mind), but there are also scenes like in Sacred Stones where there is no hint whatsoever that Ephraim might have led more than three men to capture an enemy fort.

So, while there is no sudden influx of 10000 playable Etrurians after 16x, it's explicitly stated that Roy is "nominated as leader of the Etrurian Army", he has all three Etrurian Generals at his command and (hey, the little details count) the status screen you see when pressing start calls the blue troops "Etrurian Army" instead of "Lycian Army".

Edit:

6 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Still can't argue with that 30 mag though. She's also cheap in that you don't need mend to heal more. Just a normal heal staff will do which saves a LOT of money btw. Better make that a note to myself on my next playthrough.

Well, Clarine can mitigate most of Lilina's magic lead by using a Mend stave when necessary, use both Physic and Restore and has the additional mobility and rescue utility. Lilina's huge magic is helpful, sure, but as far as pure staff utility goes, she's still inferior to Saul, Elen and Clarine. And while I'm not sure how many money you can save by not using Mend staves, I reckon that you could make even more money by selling the Guiding Ring you would need to promote Lilina. ;)

about the RNG: FE6 has the same friggin RNG as FE7 and FE8. The SAME. Not "similar" or "comparable", THE SAME. IDENTICAL. *ahem* So yeah, that's why people get frustrated when you bash FE6 specifically for its RNG. There's literally no difference to the other GBA games, and unless you're keeping track of the numbers in some way, it's functionally the same as in FE9-13, as well.

Edited May 20, 2017 by ping

[Magical Glace]

12 minutes ago, Harvey said:

And its even worse the more distant they are as chapter 21 shows that perfectly. And its only predictable after the first time you played the maps or after your first playthrough. In this case Awakening fixed that in the sense that those who picked normal didn't have to suffer the enemy bush attack all of a sudden and in harder modes, that's done.

If they're far away, they can't hit you the turn they first spawn.  

The reason I called them predictable is after the first one spawns, the spawn points are incredibly consistent over several turns, on top of either the general warning you receive in dialogue form or tendency of forts to be the spawn point.  

16 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Its the first boss of the game which should atleast not be so hard to do to kill it off. But here? taking a huge hit if Roy does get hit from the first boss is already bad enough. Atleast Hard mode I can understand but Normal? In many FE games before this, the First boss is always a cakewalk unless you go to harder modes.

He's incredibly inaccurate, you can have Marcus soften him up without killing (at least on Hard, not sure if base Marcus ORKO's with an Iron Sword on Normal since it's been ages since I've played FE6 Normal), you don't have to fight him on the player phase, three of your units are cavs for rescue chains, he has no two range meaning Wolt can chip imperviously (though Wolt's bases are bad enough that this isn't that great of a reassurance).  There are plenty of ways to handle the boss, but ORKO'ing with Roy or whatever isn't and honestly shouldn't be.  

 

21 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Whatever I said in those parts are reasonable and like I said, that's what I THINK should be remade. If you don't agree with it, then fine but I just find that even if I say something like the RNG being horrible, you'd bash me at that when everyone else says so otherwise. 

When I criticized your assessment of the RNG, the thing I was criticizing was how you were complaining about a high hit missing, not the axe hitrates.  99% is not 100%, if it misses, well, too bad for you I guess.  Blaming the game for that isn't very fair since it's random.  If you want to play a game where battles aren't RNG based, play Heroes. 

 

26 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Still can't argue with that 30 mag though. She's also cheap in that you don't need mend to heal more. Just a normal heal staff will do which saves a LOT of money btw. Better make that a note to myself on my next playthrough.

Lilina can't use Physic (B rank) or Restore (C rank) for ages, Clarine will likely hit at least Rank C or B by the time she promotes, and promoting will give her +1 staff rank (so if she promoted with a C rank she will be B rank upon promoting).  Lilina won't ever be using higher level staves, and again, has no horse under her.

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

That is only a minor thing as he still leads his army whatever the case but I digress.

6 hours ago, ping said:

C16/16x is where Guinevere gives Roy the Fire Emblem too. Seeing how the Fire Emblem is inserted into the Sword of Seals later on to unlock it, that suggests it in itself has some magical power. That + the leading of the Etrurian Army should be grounds for a C16/16x promotion.

[Harvey]

4 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

When I criticized your assessment of the RNG, the thing I was criticizing was how you were complaining about a high hit missing, not the axe hitrates.  99% is not 100%, if it misses, well, too bad for you I guess.  Blaming the game for that isn't very fair since it's random.  If you want to play a game where battles aren't RNG based, play Heroes. 

I can put up with the RNG as you said since that's the whole point of the game and I'm aware that its random thank you very much. What I didn't like about it is that some of the hit rates are bonkers such as the poor axe hits.

I'm leaving it at that.

4 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

He's incredibly inaccurate, you can have Marcus soften him up without killing (at least on Hard, not sure if base Marcus ORKO's with an Iron Sword on Normal since it's been ages since I've played FE6 Normal), you don't have to fight him on the player phase, three of your units are cavs for rescue chains, he has no two range meaning Wolt can chip imperviously (though Wolt's bases are bad enough that this isn't that great of a reassurance).  There are plenty of ways to handle the boss, but ORKO'ing with Roy or whatever isn't.

See.. that's the point your missing. In many FE games, your lord is suppose to be the one fighting the main boss of each chapter something that this game doesn't do until the very end. That's the whole point of a lord. I can't think of an FE game where a Lord cannot be helpful besides this one when facing bosses. Again, like I said earlier, Lords are an important aspect in FE and FE6 just doesn't want you to use Roy for a long time.

5 hours ago, ping said:

about the RNG: FE6 has the same friggin RNG as FE7 and FE8. The SAME. Not "similar" or "comparable", THE SAME. IDENTICAL. *ahem* So yeah, that's why people get frustrated when you bash FE6 specifically for its RNG. There's literally no difference to the other GBA games, and unless you're keeping track of the numbers in some way, it's functionally the same as in FE9-13, as well.

So its ok for Blazing Knight and other people out there to bash at its RNG but not me is it?

Also, I'm not sure since FE7 kinda fixed all the issues that FE6 has. That and when looking further, the hit rates in FE7 are tweaked up to make it balanced. 

 

 

[shadowofchaos]

12 minutes ago, Harvey said:

So its ok for Blazing Knight and other people out there to bash at its RNG but not me is it?

Who?

People need to get it in their heads that coding wise, the RNG functions *THE SAME* as in FE7 and FE8.

 

Hit rates for items are a different issue.

Edited May 20, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Magical Glace]

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

See.. that's the point your missing. In many FE games, your lord is suppose to be the one fighting the main boss of each chapter something that this game doesn't do until the very end. That's the whole point of a lord. I can't think of an FE game where a Lord cannot be helpful besides this one when facing bosses. Again, like I said earlier, Lords are an important aspect in FE and FE6 just doesn't want you to use Roy for a long time.

 I don't follow.  Why must the main lord specifically be the one to fight bosses?  Anyone can fight bosses if you want them to.

If you don't want him to die in one hit you should be using Roy.

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

I can put up with the RNG as you said since that's the whole point of the game and I'm aware that its random thank you very much. What I didn't like about it is that some of the hit rates are bonkers such as the poor axe hits.

I'm leaving it at that.

That wasn't actually what you did in the other thread, but whatever. 

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

So its ok for Blazing Knight and other people out there to bash at its RNG but not me is it?

1. Who

2. No, it's not fine for anyone to blame FE6 for their bad luck with hit rates.  I was playing Echoes earlier and I missed a 95 with Kliff.  Is that the game's fault?  Nope.  Same holds for any FE, 6 included.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[ping]

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

So its ok for Blazing Knight and other people out there to bash at its RNG but not me is it?

Also, I'm not sure since FE7 kinda fixed all the issues that FE6 has. That and when looking further, the hit rates in FE7 are tweaked up to make it balanced.

The RNG is completely identical for all three GBA games and functially the same for the average player (who doesn't have any insight in what numbers will come next) in 9-13. Is that really so hard to comprehend?

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

See.. that's the point your missing. In many FE games, your lord is suppose to be the one fighting the main boss of each chapter something that this game doesn't do until the very end. That's the whole point of a lord. I can't think of an FE game where a Lord cannot be helpful besides this one when facing bosses. Again, like I said earlier, Lords are an important aspect in FE and FE6 just doesn't want you to use Roy for a long time.

9 hours ago, ping said:

Leaders don't always have to fight leaders. For any emphasis placed on this in the plot, it is only because saying "I bested General X" has a better feel than saying "I bested the Y Army/Bandits". It's also more concrete, dramatic, and developmental having Ike beat Ashera, Roy duel with Zephiel, and Corrin best Takumi, Xander, Ryoma, the invisible marionettes of important people, and their supposedly degenerate but somehow manipulative leader.

Sure they get a lot of boss convos in some games like FE9 (but FE9 is loaded with boss convos- Lethe and Mordecai trigger nearly as many special boss convos as Ike), but that doesn't mean you're supposed to send lords against bosses all the time. And what about Shiharam and Valter and Caellach? Ike tells Jill he killed Shiharam in a info conversation in the subsequent chapter, but we can interpret this loosely, and it would be even more dramatic for Jill to kill her dad. Valter and Caellach are better killed on Eirika's route by Cormag and Joshua respectively seeing how they should be desiring vengeance for Glen's and Ismaire's deaths. And who gets Nergal's head-in-a-basket by the way? Eliwood? Athos? Harken? Renault?

There isn't an "anti-boss" skill that lords get (rapiers and the ilk plus legendary weapons sorta are I concede)- but don't tell me to send Hector against HHM FFO Lloyd. If lords were always supposed to be dedicated boss slayers at the expense of everyone else's capabilities of doing so, I'm not sure I would like it because it'd potentially mean an escort mission for every battle.

[Augestein]

2 hours ago, ping said:

The RNG is completely identical for all three GBA games and functially the same for the average player (who doesn't have any insight in what numbers will come next) in 9-13. Is that really so hard to comprehend?

BUT THOSE HIT RATES ARE ATROCIOUS IN FE6! It certainly has nothing to do with those terrible hit rates that are built within the weapons themselves, no sir!

[Tenzen12]

With few exceptions lords aren't best fighters around  You get other units weaken. boss and just deliver finish blow for convoy and exp which non-powerhouse lords need so bad.

Lords doesn't have dueling (outside of arena) in their job description.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Harvey]

Oh and one more thing if a remake is to happen.

MAKE GUINIVERE RECRUITABLE IN THE MAIN GAME!!!!!!!!!

I can understand not having other characters take part of the story due to most of them being killed and some like Eliwood and Hector being on main game with them somehow being alive and well would be a problem....

But Guinivere makes no sense to NOT be a playable unit in the main story. I mean she left with Milady to help Roy and she has always followed Roy throughout the entire game. Heck she is the best prepromote you ever get in the game even.

Seriously..why not include her as a main unit????????

 

[Koumal8]

14 minutes ago, Harvey said:

MAKE GUINIVERE RECRUITABLE IN THE MAIN GAME!!!!!!!!!

This, so much. 

[shadowofchaos]

16 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Oh and one more thing if a remake is to happen.

MAKE GUINIVERE RECRUITABLE IN THE MAIN GAME!!!!!!!!!

I can understand not having other characters take part of the story due to most of them being killed and some like Eliwood and Hector being on main game with them somehow being alive and well would be a problem....

But Guinivere makes no sense to NOT be a playable unit in the main story. I mean she left with Milady to help Roy and she has always followed Roy throughout the entire game. Heck she is the best prepromote you ever get in the game even.

Seriously..why not include her as a main unit????????

 

It almost feels like you're just ranting and bumping this thread and ignoring actual discussion.

You never even bothered to answer the questions of the people who quoted you.

[Night Zap]

One thing I would hope for is that the true ending is no longer locked off if you miss a Gaiden.

It could work like this: Any time you miss one of the Divine Weapons, Bern forces steal it. During the battle with Zephiel, a miniboss weilding that weapon appears in his throne room, and drops the weapon upon defeat.

[Harvey]

8 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

It almost feels like you're just ranting and bumping this thread and ignoring actual discussion.

You never even bothered to answer the questions of the people who quoted you.

Its a suggestion...idk why you didnt notice it.

 

[Flee Fleet!]

8 hours ago, Harvey said:

MAKE GUINIVERE RECRUITABLE IN THE MAIN GAME!!!!!!!!!

no. I just don't  consider her as the fighting type, but then again, that's my opinion.

 

7 hours ago, Night Zap said:

One thing I would hope for is that the true ending is no longer locked off if you miss a Gaiden.

It could work like this: Any time you miss one of the Divine Weapons, Bern forces steal it. During the battle with Zephiel, a miniboss weilding that weapon appears in his throne room, and drops the weapon upon defeat.

I dunno, that seems too forgiving of the game, and kind of makes it pointless to go to the Gaiden chapters if you're just going to end up getting the weapons (but quite later). But it would make Zephiel's chapter more challenging as the minibosses have a way higher of killing Roy and his army.

Anyways, I haven't read all posts, but I'll still state the changes I would want to see:

- Fix the hitrates. I want to use axe users and lance users, not just sword users.

- Buff up some of the characters like Ward, Lot, Wolt, Dorothy e.t.c. because they're otherwise pretty bad (unless you get lucky and they gain good level ups). And in cases of units like Wendy and Sophia, they need to buff up so that they can actually be used.

- Lower Roy's luck growth. It's his highest stat, but I would trade at least some of it for either more Strength or Speed, to be honest. Also, Roy needs an early promotion time and should also change his appearance once promoted (I was disappointed when his battle sprite was still the same even after promotion).

- Thieves should promote. Also, Cath should arrive earlier, because otherwise she's a useless thief who needs a bit of babying by the time you get her (thankfully she wasn't as hard to train like Sophia).

- Add a Support menu so I know who can support who.

- Characters should get different endings depending on whether they had supports or not. In this game, only Roy had alternate endings. 

- After the final battle, only the characters used in the final chapter get a long description of what they did after the battle. The rest have a really small summary. I would prefer everyone to have a long description.

- Give Fa's Dragonstone more uses, as much as about the uses of Myrrh's Dragonstone. 

- Give Gale more screentime, as it would make his death more impactful or whatever the correct word is.

- Add more chapters. This would actually help in getting more experience for lower leveled characters, and the chapters could be important to the plot.

- Lalum should get a weapon. I always liked how dancers could use swords as well, but unfortunately the GBA games just made them defenseless in the end. Elphin should get a weapon as well, since he performs the same purpose Lalum does and is also defenseless.

- If they want Gonzales to have a higher level in Route B (exact chapter was 11B, iirc?), then they should increase his bases. Because otherwise i don't see the purpose of increasing his level like that.

- Some bosses, like that one Pegasus knight whose name starts with an S, should be able to move. 

 

That's about it. It's really just some small complaints from me, and I assume everyone else has already stated them.

[Azure Sen]

In general, an Echoes version of Binding Blade I would expect to not make as many changes because there's more to work with compared to Gaiden, but I would like to see some changes made. To list some specifics:

-Add base convos and full voice acting, like SoV, with the former accessible from the prep screen. Both of these really helped Echoes' cast shine, and while it would be a little harder with Binding Blade's larger cast, I'd still like IntSys to try.

-Streamlining or raising the more wonky growths/bases to make characters more viable.

-Roy's promotion time should be moved forward. 

-More dragonstones for Fae, and more uses for the Divine Dragonstone in general.

-Fixing weapon stats to make them more in line with later games'. Adjust throne/terrain bonuses too.

-Unbreakable legendary weapons. How to nerf them is up in the air in my book, since the only time I've ever used one notably early is when I've specifically grinded someone to promote super-fast.

-Keeping weapon durability. I really hope they don't repeat Fates' mistakes in this regard.

-Having more Blazing Sword characters playable, even if it's only a handful. At the same time, don't canonize any parents, or let the player choose the parents at the beginning of the playthrough. The last thing we need is more ship wars.

This is just off the top of my head, though.

[shadowofchaos]

9 hours ago, Harvey said:

Its a suggestion...idk why you didnt notice it.

 

No, I was addressing the part where you ignore other people's statements pointing out the flaws in your statements and simply moving on to your own ideas.

Like whoever this irrelevant Blazing Knight you brought up.

Edited May 25, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Tenzen12]

What is with this "unbreakable legendary weapons"? Is there any appeal in that? Being that rare I would not mind if they lowered number of uses even. 

Same with dancers, unlike unbreakable weapons (which are simply stupid idea) I have no problems with dancers having weapons in general, but there is no reason to change mechanics in games where it originally wasn't present. They should get some buffing ability instead maybe?

Thieves should be able promote, Cath should get rebalanced and receive support with Roy (doesn't matter if romantic or not). After all that effort gain her trust...

Gwen should get better growths and maybe put some more sword in her way and Cecilia should get higher initial stats, making her magical Jagen. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Harvey]

5 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

No, I was addressing the part where you ignore other people's statements pointing out the flaws in your statements and simply moving on to your own ideas.

Like whoever this irrelevant Blazing Knight you brought up.

Blazing Knight is a youtuber who plays FE games frequently....you can check him out considering he's one of the people that bashes fe6 for wrong reasons.

 

[shadowofchaos]

2 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Blazing Knight is a youtuber who plays FE games frequently....you can check him out considering he's one of the people that bashes fe6 for wrong reasons.

 

No, what I mean is that how in the hell is bringing up an irrelevant person in this thread contributing to discussion when all it did was function as a Red Herring fallacy distraction.

[Harvey]

Just now, shadowofchaos said:

No, what I mean is that how in the hell is bringing up an irrelevant person in this thread contributing to discussion when all it did was function as a Red Herring fallacy distraction.

...you lost me.

 

[shadowofchaos]

Just now, Harvey said:

...you lost me.

You brought up an irrelevant person for your responses to @ping  and @Glaceon Mage