How Would You Tweak Awakening?

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, Cerberus87 said:

Yen'fey attacking Say'ri is called gameplay/story segregation. It would be ridiculous if Say'ri could attack Yen'fey without impunity, as there's no reason in the story for her to avoid combat against him, and he has to defend himself, otherwise he's just too easily exploitable.

Exactly my point!

 

[Thane]

3 hours ago, Cerberus87 said:

3) Yen'fey attacking Say'ri is called gameplay/story segregation. It would be ridiculous if Say'ri could attack Yen'fey without impunity, as there's no reason in the story for her to avoid combat against him, and he has to defend himself, otherwise he's just too easily exploitable.

Gaiden did this with a much more important boss. It's not the pinnacle of game design, but it's certainly still possible to make a challenging map even with a boss who won't attack certain units. I think it'd be a good idea to prioritize the story in that regard.

I agree with your comment about maps though. It's one of the reasons why I disliked Revelation so much: there were just no minor objectives.

[Magical Glace]

6 hours ago, Cerberus87 said:

3) Yen'fey attacking Say'ri is called gameplay/story segregation. It would be ridiculous if Say'ri could attack Yen'fey without impunity, as there's no reason in the story for her to avoid combat against him, and he has to defend himself, otherwise he's just too easily exploitable.

Micaiah can attack several Lategame enemies, including three bosses, without being countered and the final maps are still difficult.  Ena and Kurthnaga won't be attacked in the dragon map whatsoever and it's still the hardest map in the game.  Say'ri is, ultimately, just one unit.

It's really not a problem.  They included this very mechanic in Radiant Dawn and it still worked just fine.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[Barrel]

My theory regarding Yen'fay and Say'ri that I'll stand by is that originally Yen'fay was meant to be a Lorenz, recruitable by Say'ri, by them trading blows in combat and both surviving (then Yen'fay joins as he realises that is indeed his sister on the other side). Somewhere within the management team after the entire chapters/storyline was all developed it was instead decided that Chrom ended up needing to recruit everybody, and as it was too late to completely revert the original decision it ends up as the clusterfuck one sees today in the form of Chapter 18.

[Hasnbaakoajsbakaiaja]

Adjust the Spd stat and growths in general. Everyone in this game is fast. It sort of takes the uniqueness out of the units. I mean, Kellam is an Armour Knight and has a 40% Spd growth! That is fast for an armour. If I am not mistaken this is also the lowest spd growth in the game, which really says something. I understand that caps are high in Awakening, but I would prefer those to be lower as well. Adds balance and variety.

[SavageVolug]

I agree. And when you have a game where it is VERY EASY to have everyone with max stats it's debatable whether any single unit is good or not. You need to have units that outshine others and at the same time you're Donnels, Rosses, Ewans, Amelias ect need to be servicable. A unit's stats should reflect their role in the army and how they are meant to be used. Berserkers are fast, strong and with loads of HP, Mercs have good strength, skill and speed with solid stats all around, mages have poor defense but excellent magic and res ect. You don't put mages in the frontlines when facing bandits, but you could put your Berserker there they may have poor defense but they are fast and have ridiculous amounts of HP, or you could put a merc there or perhaps a cavalier. ect. On the flipside you don't use a Berserker if you have a lot of mages coming, you use a pegasus, another mage maybe a cavalier depending on the specific cavalier's res.

 

[Tuvy]

On 5/6/2017 at 10:36 AM, Glaceon Mage said:

Change Sully, Tharja, and Kjelle's characters, drastically.  I don't know precisely what to do with them, but definitely not what we have.

You dare stand against #1 Waifu Sully? www.youtube.com

I'm half serious and half joking)

You are right about Tharja though.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Tuvy

[Arthur97]

All this talk about Yen'fay, but no one mentions that Lucina uses deadly force against Chrom in Chapter 4? I mean, if you could just have Chrom wail on her with no counterattack, then it would be a pretty easy fight, but still...

[Skynstein]

8 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Micaiah can attack several Lategame enemies, including three bosses, without being countered and the final maps are still difficult.  Ena and Kurthnaga won't be attacked in the dragon map whatsoever and it's still the hardest map in the game.  Say'ri is, ultimately, just one unit.

It's really not a problem.  They included this very mechanic in Radiant Dawn and it still worked just fine.

So? The boss is supposed to be the hardest unit in the map. The rest of the map can be difficult, but if you can camp the boss with just one unit regardless of its safety and stats, that's just non-linear difficulty and thus, bad design.

Besides, if Yen'fay didn't attack Say'ri, it would be a huge spoiler to what happens immediately thereafter, which is Yen'fay confessing to Say'ri that he joined Walhart's army to protect her. But I guess Awakening's story is only important when criticizing it, so what do I know, right?

Edited May 9, 2017 by Cerberus87

[Magical Glace]

Just now, Cerberus87 said:

So? The boss is supposed to be the hardest unit in the map. The rest of the map can be difficult, but if you can camp the boss with just one unit regardless of its safety and stats, that's just non-linear difficulty and thus, bad design.

Besides, if Yen'fay didn't attack Say'ri, it would be a huge spoiler to what hapens immediately thereafter, which is Yen'fay confessing to Say'ri that he joined Walhart's army to protect her. But I guess Awakening's story is only important when criticizing it, so what do I know, right?

Even the bosses that don't attack Micaiah/Kurthnaga/Ena are difficult, Dheginsea is the hardest enemy in the game even though he doesn't attack Ena/Kurthnaga, Ashera is still the hardest final boss in any FE I've played despite not attacking Micaiah, etc.  

You're really making the problem look bigger than it actually is.  You can avoid letting Say'ri solo be possible by having mage units that can attack her flank him and giving Yen'fey the ability to move to attack any units who the player sends to deal with these mages.

[Skynstein]

3 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Even the bosses that don't attack Micaiah/Kurthnaga/Ena are difficult, Dheginsea is the hardest enemy in the game even though he doesn't attack Ena/Kurthnaga, Ashera is still the hardest final boss in any FE I've played despite not attacking Micaiah, etc.  

You're really making the problem look bigger than it actually is.  You can avoid letting Say'ri solo be possible by having mage units that can attack her flank him and giving Yen'fey the ability to move to attack any units who the player sends to deal with these mages.

Yen'fay's chapter is a "Defeat the Boss" one. Exposing him is therefore not a very wise thing to do, gameplay-wise.

Besides, it's you who are making it a bigger deal than it is, as it was you who brought it up in the first place as something that needed fixing, and you don't even have to let Say'ri near him to win the chapter. Heck, you don't even have to bring her in the first place!

[Magical Glace]

1 minute ago, Cerberus87 said:

Yen'fay's chapter is a "Defeat the Boss" one. Exposing him is therefore not a very wise thing to do, gameplay-wise.

Besides, it's you who are making it a bigger deal than it is, as it was you who brought it up in the first place as something that needed fixing, and you don't even have to let Say'ri near him to win the chapter. Heck, you don't even have to bring her in the first place!

That's why I said have mages flank him while also giving the ability to move?  Giving him the ability to move and attack other units means Say'ri would have to go into his and his supporting soldiers range with nothing but a pair up bot to assist her, which could be rather dangerous for her.  

I think it's worthwhile to fix the inconsistency with the story when it's perfectly possible to integrate the story with the gameplay (as in FE10).  Just because you don't have to use Say'ri doesn't mean him attacking her makes sense.  When I said you were making a bigger deal out of it than what it was, I meant in terms of the cost of the integration.

[SoulWeaver]

Oh, boy, an argument...Welp, guess I'll hop in here and see if I can't make it any worse!

First off, an overview to make sure I've got both parts of both sides' points right - make sure to correct me if I'm wrong so I can fix it if I end up trying to address something that you weren't even saying:

It sounds like Glaceon Mage is saying that it was BS that Yen'fay supposedly joined Walhart to protect Say'ri and yet has no qualms about cutting her down in the Chapter in which you fight him. She's also saying that Emmeryn and Tiki's 'defense' Chapters were kind of badly done as they're both just plain old 'rout' Chapters where you happen to also get a Game Over if this other side person dies(I don't know if it's a Game Over in Tiki's Chapter, but I think Chapter 6 does drop the G.O. on you), and that those Chapters should have instead given you a turn limit in similar fashion to the Ghostly Gold DLC in Fates, where if you killed all the guys it would just skip the Enemy Phases until more guys showed up or until you hit the specified turn. Let me know if I goofed in getting this down.

Meanwhile, Harvey and Cerberus seem to be saying that it was perfectly reasonable for Yen'fay to fight to defend his own life, even should that include cutting down his own sister. They also brought up that the abovementioned 'defense' Chapters were fairly defense-based compared to other Chapters and are just fine as they are. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

Ok, so now what I think of each of the two issues that are being discussed, along with how I personally would handle said issues if it were me remaking the game:

Issue 1 - Yen'fay vs. Say'ri

Opinion:

A difficult question. I think here I've gotta side with Glaceon, but hear me out before people start throwing stuff. Yes, it seems reasonable that Yen'fay would want to defend himself if his life was in peril, but if you stop and think about it, he's putting his life in peril simply by joining Walhart so that Say'ri will live. Knowing this, it seems kind of out of character for him to suddenly decide that if she's swinging first then to heck with the whole thing. Looking at the kind of person Yen'fay turns out to be, it really would make sense for him to allow his sister to cut him down to prevent him from being the cause of her death as he joined Walhart and probably killed a lot of people - who were either people he wanted to side with or else innocent bystanders - specifically to prevent being the cause of his sister's death. As for the Shepherds, honestly it isn't really their business why Yen'fay would choose the side he chose, and so him attacking them makes perfect sense as they're like neighbors you called in on your brother to side with you in an argument - he doesn't owe Chrom and his group any explanation and therefore makes no effort to spare them.

Possible Solution?

Well, let's take a look at this. Frankly, Excellus is the only reason Yen'fay is still sided with Walhart because he's the one who appears to have the capability to take Say'ri out of the picture at any time(despite not even attempting to do so when you rescue her), and therefore seems like the key to solving the problem, at least to me. I think I'd split that Chapter into two choices, one where you try to deal with Excellus before battling Yen'fay, which would need an excuse to go after him first - let's say because they find out Excellus is the reason the Dynasts are against them and so the obvious logical next step is to remove Excellus from the picture so that the Dynasts can safely join your cause without fear of retribution. The other choice would of course be to go after Yen'fay for answers. Once there, it's discovered that - through some mysterious intervention, I honestly have no idea how I'd try and make it happen, perhaps something similar to the battle against Validar in the Chapter where Basilio and Flavia join, with Say'ri required and locked in a special area with only her and Yen'fay and the rest of the group outside - only Say'ri can challenge her brother, and she must do so alone. When she defeats him, one of two things happens depending on the order you played the Chapters. If you already beat Excellus, Say'ri finds some way to mention this, probably by saying that the Dynasts are now arrayed against Yen'fay and Walhart thanks to Excellus' demise, and Yen'fay, surprised but happy, then says he has no reason to fear retribution or something like that and promptly joins the party. If you hadn't fought Excellus yet, Say'ri attempts to get Yen'fay to join, and Yen'fay, moved by his sister's pleas, is about to do so, but Excellus appears, attempts to kill Say'ri, and Yen'fay heroically takes the shot for his beloved sister, at which point Excellus leaves because bad guys have their own things to do, like wait for the proper Chapter so they can be killed at the right time instead of messing things up. This would then lend more weight to the battle against Excellus because now you're avenging Yen'fay, who you never knew was a pawn until he died in the vanilla game anyways. You could then also still use the Yen'fay SpotPass Paralogue in the event that you got Yen'fay killed, and not use it if Excellus died first - heck, if people only ever went for Excellus first nobody would need to know about the confusing lack of detail regarding the SpotPass Yen'fay. I feel like this would not only solve the issue at hand of Say'ri and Yen'fay dueling but also give the players a chance to feel like they have more of a hand in the story, like Fates was supposed to go but didn't really.

Issue 2 - So-called 'Defense' Chapters

Opinion:

You know, I did like that about Conquest - that I had other things to do than just kill all the bad guys, particularly as I personally have issues with striking down unarmed Healer Units that can't do anything once all the guys with swords are crow chow and so enjoy being able to seize and feel like I did the right thing by letting them live - but in Awakening I'm afraid I'm not really seeing the need for Defense-based Chapters. Admittedly, Glaceon, yes, Chapter 6 was never a difficult thing as far as defense goes - I was always more concerned about not running Gaius over so I could get him than I was about Emmeryn dying. I mean, Lucina's right there, plus we got the OutRealm Gate literally two Chapters back, and I at least always spend a good half an hour to an hour level grinding the second that happens so I don't end up getting my guys killed so it wasn't like such an early Chapter was going to be difficult anyways. For Tiki's Chapter, though, it really plays like a Defense Chapter for me because I invariably just park all my Units three spaces away from Tiki in a fortress-style setup and let the Risen crash against me until they run out and the leader runs up to die. It's kind of funny, actually, because the way the AI is set up is so that they're all like little lemmings running straight into my indestructible(by that time anyways) crew. Either way, it ends up always ending in the same number of turns, so it's practically a Defend for X Turns Chapter for me whether or not that's the stated goal. Could I rush and kill them all earlier? Probably, but I'm not gonna try because the last time I did(on my most recent of like 12 playthroughs, I might add, so I'd like to think it wasn't just me being noobish) a Risen got through almost immediately, Tiki nearly got killed and I had to try and save her which was annoying as heck and would have failed if Tharja hadn't happened to be carrying a Mire at the time. What bugged me more was that Emmeryn's SpotPass Paralogue didn't follow the same rules as Chapter 6 - if they're after Emmeryn and we're trying to save her, obviously then it should be considered a loss if we fail, and there I agree with you Glaceon, but overall I felt Awakening didn't really need Defense Chapters and am going to have to go with the other two here.

Possible Solution?

Though I don't really feel that Awakening needed Defense Chapters, I do recognize that other people do feel that way, so I think I'd make the main Chapters follow a more standard kill-all-the-baddies idea, with maybe a seize or two thrown in for variety and only Chapter 6 being made into an actual Defense Chapter. However, I think I'd make the Paralogues take a more radical stance, with things like making you have to get so many kills with Owain in his Paralogue before the bad guys realize they're up against a hero here and scatter, or making it so you need to keep Anna alive throughout her Paralogue like in her Fates DLC level. When you think about it, the closest to a special requirement any of the Paralogues really gets to is Severa's because you have to either kill Holland and then consequently Severa herself or else get Severa to Holland so you don't have to make all that time getting GaleForce and Counter on her parents a waste. I would also make some of them be Defense Chapters, particularly Tiki's as that's pretty much what it was for me anyways, and I'd change Emmeryn's SpotPass Paralogue to be Defense as well to make more sense. This way, the game would both not be too much for newer players as they could just skip the Paralogues without much of an issue as the only Gen 2 character with real impact joins in a main Chapter, not a Paralogue, while also providing new challenges for players who've already got a playthrough or two under their belts and want something harder without being ready to bump that difficulty bar up any notches. You could then make each Paralogue have a different way of getting tougher on higher difficulty levels so that while the main Chapters just bump the levels up and start actually giving the bad guys Skills, with Paralogues you'd start to see things like Paired Up enemies or maybe Einherjar foes joining the fight - it stands to reason with all these 'calling cards' lying around that at least one bad guy's picked up an Edward or something.

Anyways, hopefully I didn't make this any worse for you guys and hopefully at least one of you found my possible solutions to be something you thought was a decent idea.

Edited May 11, 2017 by SoulWeaver

[DarkDefeater]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 11:42 AM, Thane said:

Even more than a tweaked pair up system, I'd want a complete removal of ambush spawns. 

Then there are quite a few dialogue and map tweaks needed, for sure. I'm assuming this is a "tweaking" thread and not "if you could remake it", so I'll keep my suggestions relatively limited.

I highly agree with this.

Fates was my first game, followed by echoes. I just recently started playing awakening. I started with Hard/Classic figuring I would have an easy time. I defeated Conquest Lunatic/Classic afterall. 

I was wrong. I've had a remarkable number of resets because of ambush spawns occurring at the beginning of 'enemy phase.' I never had this problem with the other games. Just yesterday, I was doing well with Severa's paralogue when a tomahawk Bezerker defeated Olivia.

That was the last straw for me. I decided to start over....in casual mode, to somewhat memorize where and when enemies will spawn. I can't believe it's come to this.

I'm sure there are other players that would tell me to strategize better or 'git gud' and they probably would be right. Part of me appreciates the increased strategy required with occupying forts to prevent enemy spawns, but for the most part I hate it. Especially when the spawns occur from the edge of a map and nothing can be done to prevent them.

I'll persevere. Eventually, I'll do Lunatic/Classic playthroughs. (Lunatic+ I'm not sure about). But then I'm going back to fates. Pair up is more reliable and there's no nonsense with enemy spawns.....Can you imagine if the final chapter of conquest had the 'Awakening' style of enemy spawns? Oh boy...

When I'm finished with all this, my next game will be shadow dragon DS. Hopefully, there won't be this enemy spawn nonsense.

 

[SoulWeaver]

2 hours ago, DarkDefeater said:

I highly agree with this.

Fates was my first game, followed by echoes. I just recently started playing awakening. I started with Hard/Classic figuring I would have an easy time. I defeated Conquest Lunatic/Classic afterall. 

I was wrong. I've had a remarkable number of resets because of ambush spawns occurring at the beginning of 'enemy phase.' I never had this problem with the other games. Just yesterday, I was doing well with Severa's paralogue when a tomahawk Bezerker defeated Olivia.

That was the last straw for me. I decided to start over....in casual mode, to somewhat memorize where and when enemies will spawn. I can't believe it's come to this.

I'm sure there are other players that would tell me to strategize better or 'git gud' and they probably would be right. Part of me appreciates the increased strategy required with occupying forts to prevent enemy spawns, but for the most part I hate it. Especially when the spawns occur from the edge of a map and nothing can be done to prevent them.

I'll persevere. Eventually, I'll do Lunatic/Classic playthroughs. (Lunatic+ I'm not sure about). But then I'm going back to fates. Pair up is more reliable and there's no nonsense with enemy spawns.....Can you imagine if the final chapter of conquest had the 'Awakening' style of enemy spawns? Oh boy...

When I'm finished with all this, my next game will be shadow dragon DS. Hopefully, there won't be this enemy spawn nonsense.

 

You might have to force yourself to keep going on Shadow Dragon - the game can be a real patience-thinner for multiple reasons. For one, you CAN'T end any Seize level until Marth gets to the castle or throne you're trying to seize, so if you held Marth back to keep him from getting slaughtered(his stats aren't great either btw and he never promotes like the Lords in your three played games do) you're going to lose lots of turns trying to get him to the target.

As for Awakening, don't worry too much about it. Also, the 'Awakening' style of enemy spawns you're referring to only happen in Hard Difficulty and up - Normal players have the same spawn spaces, but at the end of the Enemy Phase instead, so if you're memorizing the spawn spaces, perhaps try a Normal difficulty run-through first.

[Pixelman]

Since I'm a gameplay guy myself, I'll focus on that side of things

-Lower the caps substantially. Maybe FEGBA stat caps would be good, but Fates caps are fine too.

-Lower defense growth rates to prevent low manning. In fact, lower growths across the board.

-Fix the EXP formula

-Remove veteran/galeforce/nosferatu, or just heavily nerf them

-Fix reclassing. Perhaps you can do it like fates where your level doesn't change?

-Bring back GBA weight system, it was fine

Edited August 3, 2017 by Pixelman

[Raptok]

Why does everyone hate lunatic so much? I thought the Lunatic and Lunatic+ of Awakening were better than the Lunatic of Fates simply because they were harder. I enjoyed the hours(days sometimes) of soft resetting to get good growths and rng to beat the early levels, especially since I was so elated when I finally managed it. Fates lunatic just doesn't reap the same satisfaction.

Other than tightening up some aspects of the story, I thought the UI could be improved as well as some of the portraits which sometimes felt a little flat. The gameplay changes from Fates would have improved the gameplay somewhat, and have prevented having one or two units that could solo entire maps, which became an issue on no death runthroughs. (Though it was fun to see one unit taking down an entire army).

We could also have used more Lucina, since I really liked her design, personality and backstory, though that may be more a personal taste.

[LucarioGamer812]

Varied chapter objectives (defend, rescue, survive, etc) Some time limitations, so you can't free roam say when you're supposed to be rescuing Emmeryn, and another thing, character dialogue, say Cordelia, if she marries Gregor, then she should stop talking about Chrom like she still loves him and instead talk about Gregor, I know supports are scripted and all, but maybe have supports adapt after someone marries someone (same goes for Tharja and Sumia) I mean, that's one reason I love the Future Past dlc, it gives every pairing some sense of canonicity with the conversations of the parent and child units.

[SoulWeaver]

15 hours ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

Varied chapter objectives (defend, rescue, survive, etc) Some time limitations, so you can't free roam say when you're supposed to be rescuing Emmeryn, and another thing, character dialogue, say Cordelia, if she marries Gregor, then she should stop talking about Chrom like she still loves him and instead talk about Gregor, I know supports are scripted and all, but maybe have supports adapt after someone marries someone (same goes for Tharja and Sumia) I mean, that's one reason I love the Future Past dlc, it gives every pairing some sense of canonicity with the conversations of the parent and child units.

Actually, I think the Summer Scramble DLC Map does something close to what you mentioned with Cordelia - there's a conversation available between Cordelia and Chrom that can only be viewed if Cordelia is unmarried if I remember right, though I don't recall whether Chrom has to be married for it to appear or not. At the end of the second conversation, Cordelia comments about how the two of them can never be, and how she recognizes that, but still just can't seem to give up on her fantasy. This is the only conversation in the DLC map that includes two Units of opposite genders not including Robin, has the most specific requirements of any conversation in the map to view, and is pretty much the only time in the entire game that Cordelia even comes close to admitting she's pretty much just holding on to her obsession for the sake of holding on to it at this point in her life…and they hide it behind a $3 wall so we all think she's just Fayeweird. Her conversation with Robin also becomes much more interesting if you married her like I did, and she doesn't mention Chrom at all throughout the conversation so she's definitely getting better at this whole don't-obsess-about-the-Commander thing if she marries you. I do agree that it would be nice to see her tone it down a bit after getting laidmarried, though.

On topic, I just remembered I would give the game full voice acting(more chances to hear Bae and MiniBae's voices I MEAN AHEM). I'd preferably keep dual audio with this, but if it had to be one or the other dual audio would go.

Edited August 5, 2017 by SoulWeaver

[LucarioGamer812]

14 hours ago, SoulWeaver said:

Actually, I think the Summer Scramble DLC Map does something close to what you mentioned with Cordelia - there's a conversation available between Cordelia and Chrom that can only be viewed if Cordelia is unmarried if I remember right, though I don't recall whether Chrom has to be married for it to appear or not. At the end of the second conversation, Cordelia comments about how the two of them can never be, and how she recognizes that, but still just can't seem to give up on her fantasy. This is the only conversation in the DLC map that includes two Units of opposite genders not including Robin, has the most specific requirements of any conversation in the map to view, and is pretty much the only time in the entire game that Cordelia even comes close to admitting she's pretty much just holding on to her obsession for the sake of holding on to it at this point in her life…and they hide it behind a $3 wall so we all think she's just Fayeweird. Her conversation with Robin also becomes much more interesting if you married her like I did, and she doesn't mention Chrom at all throughout the conversation so she's definitely getting better at this whole don't-obsess-about-the-Commander thing if she marries you. I do agree that it would be nice to see her tone it down a bit after getting laidmarried, though.

I mean, that's the only place we really see it, and it is locked behind a paywall. Trust me when I say I love Cordelia, even though I married her on my second playthrough (and now my fourth) it still bothered me how all her supports basically revolves around or mentions her love for Chrom. It's part of her character but as someone who loves awakening, it hurts me to see that character progression or character events is not really recognized until the credits. Which I was okay with for a bit, but playing the future past dlc and with all the unique dialogue for every pairing made me want something like that for every support, or rather events that have happened be recognized, though I imagine it would take a lot of memory and dialogue to implement that.

[Integrity]

well it was a necropost but since you guys are enjoying it i guess i'll leave it open

[Topaz Light]

Use Fates' version of the Pair-Up mechanic.

I know people say this a lot, but add multiple objective types and restructure the maps and their enemy layouts around these new objectives where necessary. I think that, if done correctly, differing map objectives can actually contribute and be more than just "fluff".

Make the non-Lucina kids more plot-relevant, or at least have them show up in the main plot. My idea for how to do this is...

• Kids show up as recruitable units in various main-story chapters if their attached parent is married as of entering that chapter.
• If said parents are not married by then, but marry afterward, the children can be recruited from their respective paralogues instead.
• Paralogue unlock conditions would be child's main story recruitment chapter cleared plus their parents being married. If you already have the child characters, the paralogues would just function as bonus maps for goodies and extra worldbuilding/plot elaboration.

Alternatively, just handle not having the parents married in time with Genealogy-style substitute characters replacing the respective kids.

Take Gangrel's and Walhart's motivations expressed in their support conversations and make those actually relevant to the main plot. Gangrel's in particular would be a perfect segue into the Valm arc, so it's really baffling to me that they delegated it to just postgame support chains. Walhart and Gangrel can also be made recruitable through similar arc segues if desired. That's really sorta take it or leave it.

Make Yen'fay recruitable in the main story. I don't even especially care about him as a character, but it's absolutely idiotic of him to keep serving Valm when Say'ri is already working with a group that's successfully taking on Valm's military while putting her in danger anyway. For Yen'fay's part, it would make more sense to just join up with Chrom's army alongside Say'ri and aid them in routing Valm's now-off-balance military. Also, if he must just be fought and killed instead, do the Alm vs. Rudolf thing and make him not counterattack Say'ri, or at least rig the RNG of battles between them to prevent the outcome from ever being fatal for either sibling or at least for Say'ri.
Or alternatively be an asshole and just give them each special death quotes when killed by the other in which said other participates. They may actually already have this but still. If you're gonna have that conflict, go all in.

Give Grima and Validar existent motivations and non-cardboard personalities.

Give the game actual worldbuilding, fix the inconsistencies with previous Archanean-Valentian-Jugdrali lore, and make the continuity a little more relevant. Not too much in ways that require prior knowledge of that particular FE setting to really understand, but make it the sort of deal where you'll have a richer and more nuanced experience and understanding of the plot if you are familiar with the previous games set in that world, sort of like playing EarthBound or Mother 3 after having played the previous game(s).

I could probably think of way more but that's it for now.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Topaz Light

[Harvey]

On 09/05/2017 at 0:43 PM, Thane said:

Gaiden did this with a much more important boss. It's not the pinnacle of game design, but it's certainly still possible to make a challenging map

Uh no...the chapter really is broken if you sent out alm using warp. There is really no reason for the boss to not attack Alm since plot wise, it doesn't add up...atleast in some form.

As for people saying that Sey'ri should not attack Yen'fay and what not, you do realise that in some FE games, its possible to attack some units that will still attack the other unit that can only recruit said unit right? 

FE4: Altena will still attack you even after running away from Thracia. While I'm not sure if she will still attack Leif, considering that she wanted to join Seliph's army realising that Leif is her brother, yeah...she can still attack.

FE2/FE15: Sonya can still attack her sisters despite them being related to her in some fashion.

FE6: Shin will still attack Sue even though Shin is suppose to protect Sue and being his duty to do so and Sue can still attack him. Same goes for Klein attacking Clarine before recruiting her, Tate attacking Thany and so on.

FE7: Rebecca can still attack Dart during the chapter that Dart first appears in. Granted, the plot never really reveals if she is indeed Dart's brother but since she has high hopes on that fact, it counts. 

The only units that really don't do this is Raven not attacking Priscillia in FE7 which makes the most sense both character and gameplay wise(atleast on my first playthrough in FE7).

To fix this issue with Yen'fay...its quite simple. Simply have Sey'ri as an NPC in the chapter she faces her brother. Have this simple objective that to recruit him, both her and him need to attack each other without getting killed for five turns. After that, have a scene where she instead sacrifices for her brother where the volcano is collapsing. Failing to protect her sister, he joins you. To recruit her instead of him, simply kill him.

End of story...

 

[Thane]

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Uh no...the chapter really is broken if you sent out alm using warp. There is really no reason for the boss to not attack Alm since plot wise, it doesn't add up...atleast in some form.

I never said Gaiden's map was good. I said it's possible to have that feature and still make it a challenging map.

[SoulWeaver]

7 hours ago, Harvey said:

FE2/FE15: Sonya can still attack her sisters despite them being related to her in some fashion.

I would say this can't really be considered the same as you can't recruit either of Sonya's sisters so far as I know(if you can someone tell me how because I want all three of them), plus by that time Marla and Hestia are both more or less almost mindless puppets - the closest either comes to sounding even slightly savable is when Hestia mentions it not being fair that Sonya is the only one who gets to live as she chooses, and saying that means she should be savable is stretching it. If anything, I'd say it might be for the better if you have Sonya strike them down as it gives her a chance at obtaining closure by being the one to set her sisters' souls free not to mention her sisters may find more peace knowing their sister was the one to give them freedom.

8 hours ago, Topaz Light said:

Make Yen'fay recruitable in the main story. I don't even especially care about him as a character, but it's absolutely idiotic of him to keep serving Valm when Say'ri is already working with a group that's successfully taking on Valm's military while putting her in danger anyway. For Yen'fay's part, it would make more sense to just join up with Chrom's army alongside Say'ri and aid them in routing Valm's now-off-balance military. Also, if he must just be fought and killed instead, do the Alm vs. Rudolf thing and make him not counterattack Say'ri, or at least rig the RNG of battles between them to prevent the outcome from ever being fatal for either sibling or at least for Say'ri.
Or alternatively be an asshole and just give them each special death quotes when killed by the other in which said other participates. They may actually already have this but still. If you're gonna have that conflict, go all in.

7 hours ago, Harvey said:

To fix this issue with Yen'fay...its quite simple. Simply have Sey'ri as an NPC in the chapter she faces her brother. Have this simple objective that to recruit him, both her and him need to attack each other without getting killed for five turns. After that, have a scene where she instead sacrifices for her brother where the volcano is collapsing. Failing to protect her sister, he joins you. To recruit her instead of him, simply kill him.

The problem with your answer, Harvey, is the fact that you're possibly forcing a second playthrough specifically to get one other character. While this isn't the worst thing they could do and Awakening would be a better game to do this with than Echoes, of course, it's still really obnoxious to a lot of players when they do this.

Instead of making you choose brother or sister, I'd make you choose between fighting Yen'fay or Excellus first - Excellus is pretty much the only reason Yen'fay made the choice he did as Excellus threatened to kill Say'ri, so if you offed Excellus before fighting Yen'fay, Say'ri tells Yen'fay that Excellus is dead, probably through mentioning that the dynasts are now on their side thanks to Excellus biting it, and Yen'fay, now freed from blackmail, has nothing holding him back and joins the party. If, on the other hand, you fought Yen'fay first, it proceeds as usual, ending with Yen'fay's death(he does have a specific quote if Say'ri kills him btw Topaz), and then Excellus appears to reveal why Yen'fay was on Walhart's side in the first place, following which you promptly beat Excellus up to avenge Yen'fay. This would give Excellus actual meaning in the plot, whereas in the actual game he's kind of just there to be the ugliest enemy in all Fire Emblem and that's all he's got going for him, also if that route was taken then you can still use Yen'fay's Spotpass Paralogue. As for rigging the RNG to keep Say'ri from killing her brother, you have to remember that Say'ri believes Yen'fay a traitor right up until he dies and Excellus makes his dramatic reveal, and therefore has no reason to try to keep him alive.

On August 5, 2017 at 10:32 AM, LucarioGamer812 said:

I mean, that's the only place we really see it, and it is locked behind a paywall. Trust me when I say I love Cordelia, even though I married her on my second playthrough (and now my fourth) it still bothered me how all her supports basically revolves around or mentions her love for Chrom. It's part of her character but as someone who loves awakening, it hurts me to see that character progression or character events is not really recognized until the credits. Which I was okay with for a bit, but playing the future past dlc and with all the unique dialogue for every pairing made me want something like that for every support, or rather events that have happened be recognized, though I imagine it would take a lot of memory and dialogue to implement that.

Yeah, it's always painful to see characters who are relatively one-note. This might also be why fewer people like Caeldori than they do Cordelia - Caeldori is Cordelia but without the one thing she does, obsess about Chrom, and therefore a one-note character without the one note, or in other words, filler.

On August 5, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Integrity said:

well it was a necropost but since you guys are enjoying it i guess i'll leave it open

Sorry 'bout that, Inty, we'll be more careful in the future. The time limit for necroposting is…three weeks, right?