Underused Class Types

[Leif]

If one takes a gander at the entire list of Heroes, they'll most likely notice that there is a dearth of certain playable class types including (but not limited to) Green and Red Mage Cavaliers as well as Bow Cavaliers.

Here is a small list of the total amount of units per color and class type. I bolded the categories that had a noteworthy amount of units. Manaketes are included under the Infantry class types, FYI.

Spoiler

Red Infantry: 24 (!) (25 if you consider the possibility of Celica being a Red Infantry unit)

Blue Infantry: 9

Green Infantry: 8

Dagger Infantry: 7

Bow Infantry: 9

Red Infantry Mage: 6 (7 if you consider the possibility of Celica being a Red Mage unit)

Blue Infantry Mage: 4 (5 if you consider the possibility of Mae being a Blue Mage unit)

Green Infantry Mage: 5 

Staff Infantry: 9

Red Melee Cavalry: 5

Blue Melee Cavalry: 5

Green Melee Cavalry: 3

Red Mage Cavalry: 1

Blue Mage Cavalry: 3

Green Mage: Cavalry: 1

Bow Cavalry: 0 (!)

Staff Cavalry: 3

Red Melee Flying: 2

Blue Melee Flying: 8

Green Melee Flying: 6

Red Mage, Blue Mage, Colorless, Flying: 0

Green Mage Flying: 1

Red Armor Melee: 2

Blue Armor Melee: 2

Green Armor Melee: 2

Colorless, Red Mage, Blue Mage, and Green Mage Armors: 0

Total: 125 Units (Excluding Upcoming Celica Banner)

Considering that Red Infantry units make up about 19% of the entire cast of heroes, what units would you like to see fill up some of the categories that don't have that many heroes?

In my opinion, I believe that Azelle (FE4) and Miranda (FE5) are great candidates for Red Mage Cavalier Units, considering that the two mages promote into mage knights and have high fire magic ranks in their respective games. Even though they seem a bit obscure, Olwen and Reinhardt exist in Heroes, so there's that. I can't think of other "canonical" Red Mage Cavaliers. The only ones who have a remote possibility of fulfilling that role would be both Lute and Ewan from Sacred Stones, since they can both promote to mage knights, but I see them more as Red Infantry Mages. 

For Green Mage Cavaliers, Arthur (FE4) and Selena (FE8) are also likely candidates. Arthur, regardless of his father, comes equipped with a Wind tome and promotes into a Mage Knight. Selena's canon class is Mage Knight and her garb is primarily green. Mages from the GBA era of FE don't have an elemental specialty, so they can really be anything. As my list points out, Cecilia is the only Green Mage Cavalier in the game, so FE Heroes could use a few.

I am very surprised that IS hasn't included any Bow Cavaliers. There are so many to choose from! Sue, Shin, Rath, Robert, Astrid and Selfina are excellent choices.

I think they should also consider using some of the enemy barons from FE4, like Bloom or Reptor, to be Blue Armor Mages. That'd be pretty swell. 

That's all I have from my end so far, what units would you like to see represent an underused class category? 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Leif

[Cute Chao]

Bow cavalry is the biggest one for me. I'd love to see Rath, Wolf, Shin or Midir added, especially. 

[property of nuvelle]

Cavalry bowman/mages and Sword Fliers. Anything besides infantry really because we have a good amount right now. I'm expecting Valbar for Celica banner though because we haven't gotten any new Armor units except for Zephiel.

[BANRYU]

Apart from Bow Cavs, red fliers and red cav mages come to mind. It'd also be nice to see more flying mages, though it's hard to imagine who could fill that niche given that flying mages have only been a thing in the 3DS games (Sumia, Aversa, and Camilla were pretty much the only canon-friendly candidates). 

[Hilda]

- Healers with unique/legendary staffs that can kick ass. "Make healers usefull for Arena!!!"

- Followed by Bow Cavalry

- Followed by non Infantery units with unique weapons

[Leif]

4 minutes ago, KongDude88 said:

Cavalry bowman/mages and Sword Fliers. Anything besides infantry really because we have a good amount right now. I'm expecting Valbar for Celica banner though because we haven't gotten any new Armor units except for Zephiel.

Yeah, there are plenty of candidates for Sword Fliers. There's pretty much every Pegasus Knight from FE4, FE5, FE6, FE7, FE8 and FE9-10 that could be one since Falcoknights had the option to equip swords. 

 

4 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Apart from Bow Cavs, red fliers and red cav mages come to mind. It'd also be nice to see more flying mages, though it's hard to imagine who could fill that niche given that flying mages have only been a thing in the 3DS games (Sumia, Aversa, and Camilla were pretty much the only canon-friendly candidates). 

Adversa could definitely be a Red (Dark Mage like Raigh, Leo and Tharja) Mage Flier and come with Goetia as a personal tome. 

I am getting tired of infantry units and I would love to see more cavalier and flying units. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Leif

[BANRYU]

10 minutes ago, Leif said:

Yeah, there are plenty of candidates for Sword Fliers. There's pretty much every Pegasus Knight from FE4, FE5, FE6, FE7, FE8 and FE9-10 that could be one since Falcoknights had the option to equip swords. 

 

Adversa could definitely be a Red (Dark Mage like Raigh, Leo and Tharja) Mage Flier and come with Goetia as a personal tome. 

I am getting tired of infantry units and I would love to see more cavalier and flying units. 

There's also the GBA wyvern lords, who can use swords on promotion. If Raven can use axes, why not swords for some of those folks?

 

Oh yeah, there's also armor units... like, in general lol. There's 2 of each color and zero mages. A few people keep mentioning the possibility of Arvis as a red armor mage, and I'm super down with that suggestion. 

[Magical Glace]

I'm really baffled at the lack of Bow Cavs.  They had plenty of options in the games that have been in since launch (Wolf, Sedgar, Sue, Shin, Dayan, and Rath, AT LEAST).  And yet didn't include any.

We need more Mages of non-infantry/Cavalry move types, though I can forgive this a bit since mage flyers weren't a thing until Awakening, and even then only as a promoted class that one unit starts in (discounting DLC Catria), and armored mages only existed as enemies in Jugdral.  Arvis hype for whenever that happens, I guess.

[Rezzy]

We need Kiragi as a Kinshi Knight and Shigure as a Staff using Falcon Knight to fill those niches.  I want Cynthia added, but her as a Lancer.

We could possibly get Elincia as a flying healer.

I know Noire's canon archer, but I'd like to see her as a flying tome user dark flyer, and stranger things have happened.

[Nym]

Summoner?

...

no?

[Rezzy]

4 minutes ago, Nym said:

Summoner?

...

no?

Well, you are the Summoner in Heroes.  Although, I guess they could always go the Avatar way and let you design your own Summoner as a unit.

[goodperson707]

Tbh as awesome a concept as armoured mages are, I think alot of the relevant Jugdrali barons could rather easily go with other movement types. On sword fliers I don't think they need/will go off book for weapon type in this case, still would be nice if they went with units who could/would go swords in the future of course . On mages while yeah not all games have tomes as separate types there is still potential basis in those games, in Selena's case I'd put her down as blue without taking into account other contexts. (With the units already in the game while a couple seem arbitrary I don't think they removed any previous leanings, Nino's Elfire seems like it's  more of a default of the source game than bolting to them and myself) 

And of couse my general wonderings on where and what these stranger things that happened are. 

[Nym]

2 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Well, you are the Summoner in Heroes.  Although, I guess they could always go the Avatar way and let you design your own Summoner as a unit.

I don't know about you but in a game where your units can't dodge at all, being able to summon baits/meatshields would be nice maybe even broken.

[LuxSpes]

13 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

We need Kiragi as a Kinshi Knight and Shigure as a Staff using Falcon Knight to fill those niches.  I want Cynthia added, but her as a Lancer.

We could possibly get Elincia as a flying healer.

I know Noire's canon archer, but I'd like to see her as a flying tome user dark flyer, and stranger things have happened.

I'd much rather have Elincia wield Amiti than be a flying healer, especially since healers are so 'meh' in this game outside of leveling up new units. 

Though I guess they could do something like make PoR Elincia a healer and RD Elincia a sword user.

[BANRYU]

22 minutes ago, Nym said:

I don't know about you but in a game where your units can't dodge at all, being able to summon baits/meatshields would be nice maybe even broken.

If it'd be broken, then why are you advocating it....? :0

TBH I think the player character is pretty much the extent of what we'll see in terms of summoners for this game. The SS summoner mechanics don't really make sense with the way this game is set up. 

[Nym]

Just now, BANRYU said:

If it'd be broken, then why are you advocating it....? :0

TBH I think the player character is pretty much the extent of what we'll see in terms of summoners for this game. The SS summoner mechanics don't really make sense with the way this game is set up. 

Why not? It doesn't hurt to dream. And I love messing with A.I in video games, it's always funny to see it do stupid things.

[Vaximillian]

Lance wyverns go! Altena, Arion, and Travant gonna rock these legendary pointy sticks of theirs.

Horse archers go! I'm mostly looking forward to Wolf, Midir, Rath, and Astrid.

Blue mages go! Ishtar gonnd drop the Mjölnir so hard, while Tailtiu and Tine fling their Thorons around.

[Roflolxp54]

Reina can easily exist for bow flier.

Aversa can easily exist for mage flier (likely a red mage flier given that Bolganone is part of her starting equipment).

Several options like Rath and Sue can easily exist for bow cavaliers.

To make healers viable, IS could add in a staff user capable of using staff-user-only Again assist skill. Perhaps it can heal 7 HP and give an extra turn to a unit that has already acted or give an extra turn to the unit that has already acted but is used at a range of 2 like the Physic staff. Of course, it would come with the restriction that it cannot be used on a unit with Again, Sing, or Dance.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Roflolxp54

[Leif]

27 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

To make healers viable, IS could add in a staff user capable of using staff-user-only Again assist skill. Perhaps it can heal 7 HP and give an extra turn to a unit that has already acted or give an extra turn to the unit that has already acted but is used at a range of 2 like the Physic staff. Of course, it would come with the restriction that it cannot be used on a unit with Again, Sing, or Dance.

I think Rescue would make Healers extremely useful. The rescue staff would have limited range, but it would help remove units from dangerous situations. 

[BANRYU]

36 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Aversa can easily exist for mage flier (likely a red mage flier given that Bolganone is part of her starting equipment).

That or Dark magic given that her Shadowgift is a pretty distinctive thing. But yeah either/or. 

36 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

To make healers viable, IS could add in a staff user capable of using staff-user-only Again assist skill. Perhaps it can heal 7 HP and give an extra turn to a unit that has already acted or give an extra turn to the unit that has already acted but is used at a range of 2 like the Physic staff. Of course, it would come with the restriction that it cannot be used on a unit with Again, Sing, or Dance.

So it's like a staff that does Sing/Dance AND healing AND it's 2 range? :0 that seems pretty broken to me (unless perhaps I'm misunderstanding).

I'm down with the idea of Rescue being like 2/3 range though. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by BANRYU

[Roflolxp54]

7 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

That or Dark magic given that her Shadowgift is a pretty distinctive thing. But yeah either/or. 

So it's like a staff that does Sing/Dance AND healing AND it's 2 range? :0 that seems pretty broken to me (unless perhaps I'm misunderstanding).

I'm down with the idea of Rescue being like 2/3 range though. 

Hardly broken if you consider the fact that healers aren't meant for combat (halved magic damage) whereas Olivia, Ninian, and Azura could fight when needed to. Plus, with Again being an assist skill, the healing would be pretty limited (either none or something like 7 HP if it heals any). If it's 2-ranged, it promotes crowding your units if you run Wings of Mercy on the healer, which makes further positioning a bit more difficult and makes your units vulnerable to AoE specials, Threaten skills, Dark Breath, Smoke Dagger, and Savage Blow.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Roflolxp54

[NekoKnight]

Some of my picks:

Miledy (Lance Wyvern)

Heath (Sword Wyvern)

Elincia (Sword Pegasus)

Sumia (Staff Pegasus)

Reina (Bow Flier)

Rath (Bow Cavalry)

I want more magic fliers but the only characters not added yet and have the natural ability to become Dark Fliers or Malig knights are Sumia (better as a staff user) Aversa (bleh) Cynthia and Percy (second gen characters, less likely). I'd be down for a Dark flier Morgan, although that's breaking the rules by class changing.

 

[SniperGYS]

3 hours ago, Rezzy said:

We need Kiragi as a Kinshi Knight

Yes yes yes!

I would love Kinshi Kiragi! Also more Flying mage sounds cool, specially because Bunny!Camilla can't be summoned anymore

[Astellius]

We definitely need Bow Cavs and Flyers, along with more mages in both categories.

As for staff users, let's add Sleep and Berserk staves to the game, and the range will be Mag/2.

[Vaximillian]

1 minute ago, Astellius said:

As for staff users, let's add Sleep and Berserk staves to the game, and the range will be Mag/2.

Can't tell whether you're serious. The highest basic Atk of all the currently available staff users is 32 on Elise, Lachesis, and Lucius, giving 16 range.
Sixteen. The maps are eight by six tiles. Even fucking Azama's 21 Atk (the lowest of the currently available staff usere) gives 10 range.